What and when is the rapture. Part 2

[Marty fox]

Part 2

Back to Revelation

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The voices say that Jesus will reign for ever and ever, not for just a 1000 years on the earth.

The 24 elders say in Revelation 11:18 say (at the seventh trumpet)

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The time has come for judging the dead and rewarding your servants and for destroying the earth. The judging the dead happens in Revelation 20:12 after Satan is defeated and cast into hell which is after the 1000 years.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The destroying of the ones who destroyed the earth is in Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:12-13 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus says here that when he comes he will reward us and give to each person according to what they have done. Jesus does this on the judgment day in Revelation chapter 20. Jesus also says that he is the beginning and the end, Jesus made the earth in the beginning and will come at the end. I believe that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s release right before he is cast into hell. The 1000 years is not what most people think. The bible does not say that the 1000 years is a time of peace or on the earth because Satan is bound from doing any evil. There is no mention Jesus being on the earth during the 1000 years in the book of Revelation. I believe that we are in the 1000 years now, and possibly in the time of Satan’ release. The 1000 year reign and the 1000 year binding start, and end, at different times in Revelation 20. The binding starts in verse 2 and ends in verse 7. The reign starts in verse 4 and ends in verse 11 & 12 verse 5 tells us this. The 1000 year reign ends after Satan is released defeated and cast into hell. Satan is only bound by deceiving the nations because of the message of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Summary

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth. So lets spread the word now because there is no chance after the rapture as some people believe there is. They believe that the rapture will be the proof that Jesus is real and convince there unsaved friends who Jesus is.

Remember these verses Jesus said in Luke 16:21-27 about the dead rich man. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if
someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[Timtofly]

There is only one part to the rapture and Second Coming.

 

[Marty fox]

There is only one part to the rapture and Second Coming.

Yes of course but I’m not quite sure what you mean

 

[Waiting on him]

Part 2

Back to Revelation

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The voices say that Jesus will reign for ever and ever, not for just a 1000 years on the earth.

The 24 elders say in Revelation 11:18 say (at the seventh trumpet)

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The time has come for judging the dead and rewarding your servants and for destroying the earth. The judging the dead happens in Revelation 20:12 after Satan is defeated and cast into hell which is after the 1000 years.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The destroying of the ones who destroyed the earth is in Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:12-13 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus says here that when he comes he will reward us and give to each person according to what they have done. Jesus does this on the judgment day in Revelation chapter 20. Jesus also says that he is the beginning and the end, Jesus made the earth in the beginning and will come at the end. I believe that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s release right before he is cast into hell. The 1000 years is not what most people think. The bible does not say that the 1000 years is a time of peace or on the earth because Satan is bound from doing any evil. There is no mention Jesus being on the earth during the 1000 years in the book of Revelation. I believe that we are in the 1000 years now, and possibly in the time of Satan’ release. The 1000 year reign and the 1000 year binding start, and end, at different times in Revelation 20. The binding starts in verse 2 and ends in verse 7. The reign starts in verse 4 and ends in verse 11 & 12 verse 5 tells us this. The 1000 year reign ends after Satan is released defeated and cast into hell. Satan is only bound by deceiving the nations because of the message of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Summary

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth. So lets spread the word now because there is no chance after the rapture as some people believe there is. They believe that the rapture will be the proof that Jesus is real and convince there unsaved friends who Jesus is.

Remember these verses Jesus said in Luke 16:21-27 about the dead rich man. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if
someone rises from the dead.’”

Jesus never left, we are the body of Christ. Soon as people get this silly notion out of their that we are His awaiting bride and begin to understand we are sons of God and not awaiting some alleged returning bridegroom, then it’ll begin to make sense.

 

[Marty fox]

Jesus never left, we are the body of Christ. Soon as people get this silly notion out of their that we are His awaiting bride and begin to understand we are sons of God and not awaiting some alleged returning bridegroom, then it’ll begin to make sense.

Im not sure what you mean Jesus left and said that He would come back for us

 

[Waiting on him]

Im not sure what you mean Jesus left and said that He would come back for us

That’s right, He’s coming back to save you from the bad man?

 

[Davy]

Part 2

Back to Revelation

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

The voices say that Jesus will reign for ever and ever, not for just a 1000 years on the earth.

The 24 elders say in Revelation 11:18 say (at the seventh trumpet)

The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

The time has come for judging the dead and rewarding your servants and for destroying the earth. The judging the dead happens in Revelation 20:12 after Satan is defeated and cast into hell which is after the 1000 years.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The destroying of the ones who destroyed the earth is in Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:12-13 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Jesus says here that when he comes he will reward us and give to each person according to what they have done. Jesus does this on the judgment day in Revelation chapter 20. Jesus also says that he is the beginning and the end, Jesus made the earth in the beginning and will come at the end. I believe that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s release right before he is cast into hell. The 1000 years is not what most people think. The bible does not say that the 1000 years is a time of peace or on the earth because Satan is bound from doing any evil. There is no mention Jesus being on the earth during the 1000 years in the book of Revelation. I believe that we are in the 1000 years now, and possibly in the time of Satan’ release. The 1000 year reign and the 1000 year binding start, and end, at different times in Revelation 20. The binding starts in verse 2 and ends in verse 7. The reign starts in verse 4 and ends in verse 11 & 12 verse 5 tells us this. The 1000 year reign ends after Satan is released defeated and cast into hell. Satan is only bound by deceiving the nations because of the message of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Summary

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth. So lets spread the word now because there is no chance after the rapture as some people believe there is. They believe that the rapture will be the proof that Jesus is real and convince there unsaved friends who Jesus is.

Remember these verses Jesus said in Luke 16:21-27 about the dead rich man. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if
someone rises from the dead.’”

Nah... that men's doctrine of Amillennialism, and theory that came out of 2nd century Gnosticism. The 1st century Church fathers all believed in a post-tribulation, pre-millennial, coming of Christ Jesus with His "thousand years" beginning at His return. That's is how the Scripture is actually written.

Zechariah 14 helps confirm this, because it shows Christ's LITERAL return on the "day of the Lord" to do battle, and His feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives ON EARTH, where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. And it says He brings all the saints with Him there. Then He begins his reign over all nations with His elect, which is a direct parallel to the "thousand years" of Rev.20.

Zechariah 14 gives us a major proof of Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the nations of unsaved being literal...

Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV

How... can we know the above is for Christ's "thousand years" reign of Rev.20? It's because the unsaved are still there! No brainer, because in the new heavens and a new earth, the unsaved are cast into the future "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years".

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I believe that this study shows us that the rapture is at the end of Satan’s little season at the 7th trumpet right before Jesus destroys the earth.

Precious friend, Marty:
q: What do you with the view that the Head of the Pre-trib Body Of CHRIST,
In Great GRACE Departure, "CHRIST Gathers us TO Himself, meeting in
the air, and continues in the SAME Direction, To Be Judged At The
Bema Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, In Heaven."

MYSTERY/GRACE (Romans-Philemon KJB!)

vs, or: Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER!:

Prophecy/Law (Matthew And Revelation KJB!)

The KING of kings comes to the earth, completes the battle of Armageddon,
sets up His Throne, And THEN, HE Blows Another trumpet [AFTER the so-called
LAST "trumpet of the 7th angel], and sends out HIS army {Singular}, of
angels to:

Gather {not "rapture"} the sheep And the goats Of ISRAEL And the nations for
judgment, to see who does/does Not "enter into His 1000-year kingdom" on earth!?

or, Combine THEM BOTH together for a post-trib rapture?
(reading Romans-Philemon into Matthew {where the MYSTERY IS UNKNOWN!}
and Revelation, or vice versa?)

Be Blessed!

 

[marks]

The rapture is taught by the Apostle to the gentiles, not in the Gospels, and not in the Revelation. I believe the one reference in the Revelation to the raptured church is here:

Revelation 7:9-10 KJV
9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And when is this?

Revelation 7:1-3 KJV
1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

As the 144,000 are being sealed on the earth, in heaven John sees this multitude, after the 6th seal, before the 7th seal.

It's afterward that the trumpets are sounded, and begin the plagues of the 70th week.

Revelation 8:1-2 KJV
1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2) And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

The church was a mystery revealed by Paul, not Isaiah, not Jesus, nothing against them, it's just what the Bible says.

Much love!

 

[Keraz]

Revelation 7:9-10 KJV
9) After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10) And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

And when is this?

Revelation 7:1-3 KJV
1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

As the 144,000 are being sealed on the earth, in heaven John sees this multitude, after the 6th seal, before the 7th seal.

This premise is quite wrong. ALL of the events in Revelation 7, are earthly, nowhere does it say otherwise.
Yes; Revelation 7:1-14 are after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster and Rev 7L15-17, is after the Millennium.

Here's the proof of our Christian destiny:
There is huge confusions among people, over the issue of who are God’s people. Some seem to not realize there are still Two Houses of the Israelite people. Judah, the Jews, and Israel; who are now the faithful Christian peoples, by descent and by grafting in.
Gentile, is merely a name given to anyone other than a Jew, by the Jews.

Ezekiel 11:1-12 Ezekiel is talking to the leaders of Judah, delivering judgement on them for not keeping the laws of the Lord.

Ezekiel 11:13-17…. all the Israelites who are left? They are your brothers and kinsmen, this whole people of Israel, to whom the inhabitants now in Jerusalem have said, “They are separated far from the Lord; the land has been made over to us to possess”. Say, therefore.... When I sent them far away among the nations and dispersed them over the earth... I became their sanctuary.... Say, therefore..... I shall gather you from among the nations..... I shall give the land of Israel to you.

Anyone who denies the fact of those still extant two Houses, is denying and rejecting Ezekiel's clearly stated prophecy.
A precis' of what Ezekiel wrote is:
The House of Judah, the Jews now control the central part of the holy Land. They possess it and occupy it.
But the Lord says: I sent your kinsmen, the House of Israel; far away and I looked after them in their exile. But I will gather them back and I will give all of the holy Land to them.

This truth of the Great Second Exodus of the scattered Israelites, is well prophesied and will take place soon after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, when the entire Middle East region will be cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35

We Christian people of God are seen in Jerusalem when the Anti-Christ 'beast' takes over the world for the final 42 months. Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:5-8

 

[Timtofly]

Yes of course but I’m not quite sure what you mean

One thread was sufficient. The rapture and Second Coming do not need a part 2 follow up.

 

[Davy]

The rapture is taught by the Apostle to the gentiles, not in the Gospels, and not in the Revelation.

Well that's a bunch of baloney.

Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 was pulling from what Lord Jesus taught in His Olivet discourse about the events of His coming and gathering of the saints. It's the same events Paul taught.

1 Thessalonians 4 Gathering:
1. Jesus brings the 'asleep' resurrected saints with Him when He comes - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14.
2. the saints still alive on earth are caught up to Jesus and them when He comes - 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Olivet Discourse Events:
1. the saints gathered from one end of heaven to the earth = the asleep saints gathered of 1 Thess.4. (see Matthew 24:29-31).
2. the saints on earth still alive gathered from the ends of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven = the caught up saints of 1 Thess.4. (see Mark 13:25-27).


Brethren, what Marks is following is a version of men's Hyper-Dispensationalist doctrine.

 

[Timtofly]

Well that's a bunch of baloney.

Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 was pulling from what Lord Jesus taught in His Olivet discourse about the events of His coming and gathering of the saints. It's the same events Paul taught.

1 Thessalonians 4 Gathering:
1. Jesus brings the 'asleep' resurrected saints with Him when He comes - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14.
2. the saints still alive on earth are caught up to Jesus and them when He comes - 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Olivet Discourse Events:
1. the saints gathered from one end of heaven to the earth = the asleep saints gathered of 1 Thess.4. (see Matthew 24:29-31).
2. the saints on earth still alive gathered from the ends of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven = the caught up saints of 1 Thess.4. (see Mark 13:25-27).


Brethren, what Marks is following is a version of men's Hyper-Dispensationalist doctrine.

The only way to get Paul to fit into the Gospel account of the OD is for you to place him in there somewhere. Where do you insert Paul?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The only way to get Paul to fit into the Gospel account of the OD is for you to place him in there somewhere. Where do you insert Paul?

AMEN! At the time of the Olivet Discourse The Revelation Of The
MYSTERY Was STILL "Hid In God!" (Ephesians 3:9 KJB!), Correct?

 

[Davy]

The only way to get Paul to fit into the Gospel account of the OD is for you to place him in there somewhere. Where do you insert Paul?

Obviously you are too 'scared'... to actually read what Christ's Olivet Discourse says about Christ gathering His Church, otherwise you would well know that Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 was pulling from what Jesus said there...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

 

[Timtofly]

Obviously you are too 'scared'... to actually read what Christ's Olivet Discourse says about Christ gathering His Church, otherwise you would well know that Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 was pulling from what Jesus said there...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

I said that tribulation was the first 4 Seals. It is not the Trumpets and Thunders.

There is no way John inserts the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders between the 4th and 6th Seal. John was not that vague.


John clearly points out the 7 Thunders come between the 6th and 7th Trumpet. That is not the case between any of the Seals.

There has always been tribulation and persecution. It started when Cain was jealous of Abel. Jesus pointed that out. Luke 11:50-51

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

There has always been trouble. It has never stopped in the last 1991 years since that generation. So the tribulation of those days, is just generic tribulation as has always happened. That tribulation as given in the first 4 Seals is just generic tribulation.

 

[Davy]

I said that tribulation was the first 4 Seals. It is not the Trumpets and Thunders.

There is no way John inserts the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders between the 4th and 6th Seal. John was not that vague.


John clearly points out the 7 Thunders come between the 6th and 7th Trumpet. That is not the case between any of the Seals.

There has always been tribulation and persecution. It started when Cain was jealous of Abel. Jesus pointed that out. Luke 11:50-51

50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

There has always been trouble. It has never stopped in the last 1991 years since that generation. So the tribulation of those days, is just generic tribulation as has always happened. That tribulation as given in the first 4 Seals is just generic tribulation.

Nah, simply jumping... AWAY from Christ's Olivet discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and instead to rote memorization from Pre-trib's view of Revelation just does not work.

 

[Timtofly]

Nah, simply jumping... AWAY from Christ's Olivet discourse in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and instead to rote memorization from Pre-trib's view of Revelation just does not work.

Nobody accepts a pre-trib Second Coming. Not even pre-tribbers. The Seals have already started to be opened. The Second Coming could happen at any moment.

 

[Davy]

Nobody accepts a pre-trib Second Coming. Not even pre-tribbers. The Seals have already started to be opened. The Second Coming could happen at any moment.

No such thing as a 'pre-trib 2nd coming, (except maybe in YOUR mind).

 

[Timtofly]

No such thing as a 'pre-trib 2nd coming, (except maybe in YOUR mind).

Revelation 6