What are Israel's End Time Beliefs?

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Sergius

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I guess if his own disciples didn’t recognize him walking on the road after the resurrection and when he sat with them. He broke bread with them and was gone. Then they realized Was that Jesus.
The same can happen today. Being in the world. But he will depart before he is known but realized after. If there is no physical temple then other things can be focused on. Perhaps a new city is built or restored without the temple if Christ is within that new restored city. I think Jerusalem is a city not temple. And there will be no temple therein. I think the city would need to be restored before he makes himself known not as a result of doing so.
 

Douggg

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I would think that to understand Israel’s end time that the focus would need to be on the Old Testament. I don’t think they adhere to the New Testament. Revelation 22 of NIV references Eden Restored. Does the Old Testament suggest similar?
The Jews of Israel view of the end times is that they are expecting a messiah who fits their view of what the messiah is about.

Their concept of the messiah is that he will be a Jew who will fight to defend Israel, be a part of rebuilding the temple facility, and will become the leader of Israel as their king.

Their concept of the messiah is not as a savior of anyone's soul spiritually. Their concept of the messiah is that he will be their ultimate political and military leader, anointed as their King of Israel. And under his leadership, Israel will enter an age of peace and safety.
 
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Zao is life

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Sorry, but this goes your way... IMO you are the kind of person the Holy Spirit teaches Christ's sheep not to throw His pearls of truth to, because you only turn and trample Christ with your feet. Or Christ's word, the same thing.

Except I have not trampled His doctrine or His apostes' doctrine regarding the House / Tabernacle / Temple of God underfoot, but only expressed my belief in it. It's you who is twisting the Word of God.

No, I wouldn't accuse you of trampling, but you are unlearned in the ways of prophecy. It seem to me that if you can't see what the literal fulfillment would look like then you create some sort of spiritual meaning that may sound good and might even have a kernel of truth to it but you can't see how it fits into the larger prophetic narrative we have been given through the whole bible, not just part of it.

So while you're talking about being "unlearned in the ways of prophecy" and pointing that finger at someone other than yourself, let's consider what the prophets and the apostles said regarding the Temple of God, and compare it with a little Jewish history:

Isaiah wrote,

"Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word." (Isaiah 66:1-2).

"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent" (Matthew 27:50-51).

All the Jewish Rabbis know that from AD 30 - AD 70 (40 years), each year on the Day of Atonement the scarlet thread on the scapegoat (that had previously always turned from red to white, signifying that God had accepted their sacrifice, and forgave their sin), stopped turning white. It did not turn white again after AD 29:

"...and it has further been taught: 'For forty years before the destruction of the Temple the thread of scarlet never turned white but it remained red." -- Rosh HaShanah 31b, Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Press Edition.

Fact: In-between the death of Christ for the sins of the world and AD70, the temple of stone still stood, though it had already become obsolete. It was still standing when the author to the book of Hebrews wrote:

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13).

How did the author to the Hebrews know that it was ready to vanish away? He knew it because Jesus had said,

"Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Matthew 24:2);

and even many years before the letter to the Hebrews was written, Luke had quoted both Stephen and Paul's words:

"The most High dwelleth not in temples made with (human) hands;
as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?" (Acts 7:48-49).

They understood the prophecy, but you say they did not.

But WE who believe in Christ know that

* in Christ - the Temple of God - dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9); and that

* every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God (Hebrews 3:4); and that

* all things were created by Him, and by Him all things are held together (Colossians 1:16-17), and that

* He fills all things (Ephesians 1:23); and that

* in the dispensation of the fulness of times God will gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth. (Ephesians 1:10).

... but in your own impotent human imagination and your hubris, YOU think that the Temple of God will dwell in another "temple" - a building made with human hands

- on an unregenrated earth.


- as though such a thing can contain the resurrected, glorified Christ who IS HIMSELF the (only) Temple of the Living God.

It betrays your unbelief of the Word of God - the teaching of Jesus and His apostles - and it betrays your hubris, because you say that those who believe the Word of God, are "unlearned in the ways of prophecy."
 
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Zao is life

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Synchronicity affects humans. So when Christ said 3 days and they experienced the 3 days they said oh it’s that. Because they had no rational evidence that the temple could be raised that quick.

Please hit the Reply button when replying to someone's post. Otherwise people will mostly ignore you, because it becomes your own monologue in a thread topic owned by the person who started the thread, and what you say will be of little interest to them, and what you say also may have nothing to do with the discussion.
 

Trekson

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Except I have not trampled His doctrine or His apostes' doctrine regarding the House / Tabernacle / Temple of God underfoot, but only expressed my belief in it. It's you who is twisting the Word of God.



So while you're talking about being "unlearned in the ways of prophecy" and pointing that finger at someone other than yourself, let's consider what the prophets and the apostles said regarding the Temple of God, and compare it with a little Jewish history:

Isaiah wrote,

"Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word." (Isaiah 66:1-2).

"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent" (Matthew 27:50-51).

All the Jewish Rabbis know that from AD 30 - AD 70 (40 years), each year on the Day of Atonement the scarlet thread on the scapegoat (that had previously always turned from red to white, signifying that God had accepted their sacrifice, and forgave their sin), stopped turning white. It did not turn white again after AD 29:

"...and it has further been taught: 'For forty years before the destruction of the Temple the thread of scarlet never turned white but it remained red." -- Rosh HaShanah 31b, Babylonian Talmud, Soncino Press Edition.

Fact: In-between the death of Christ for the sins of the world and AD70, the temple of stone still stood, though it had already become obsolete. It was still standing when the author to the book of Hebrews wrote:

"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13).

How did the author to the Hebrews know that it was ready to vanish away? He knew it because Jesus had said,

"Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Matthew 24:2);

and even many years before the letter to the Hebrews was written, Luke had quoted both Stephen and Paul's words:

"The most High dwelleth not in temples made with (human) hands;
as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?" (Acts 7:48-49).

They understood the prophecy, but you say they did not.

But WE who believe in Christ know that

* in Christ - the Temple of God - dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9); and that

* every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God (Hebrews 3:4); and that

* all things were created by Him, and by Him all things are held together (Colossians 1:16-17), and that

* He fills all things (Ephesians 1:23); and that

* in the dispensation of the fulness of times God will gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth. (Ephesians 1:10).

... but in your own impotent human imagination and your hubris, YOU think that the Temple of God will dwell in another "temple" - a building made with human hands

- on an unregenrated earth.


- as though such a thing can contain the resurrected, glorified Christ who IS HIMSELF the (only) Temple of the Living God.

It betrays your unbelief of the Word of God - the teaching of Jesus and His apostles - and it betrays your hubris, because you say that those who believe the Word of God, are "unlearned in the ways of prophecy."
A temple is just a building. What made it special was God's presence in it. The veil that was torn was the entrance to the Holy of Holies, where the annual sacrifice was made. That part was completed and done w/ as Christ became our one and always perfect sacrifice. Sacrifices will never return and in the spiritual sense, the body is being united w/ the Head for the perfect 'spiritual temple. But that doesn't mean a physical building won't be present in the millennium era. Is. 2:2-3 uses the words "mountain" and "house". When the Feast of Tabernacles which typifies the time of Christ dwelling upon the earth w/ men, is fulfilled, Christ has to dwell somewhere, what would you call it? This truth is taught frequently by the OT prophets. Jer. 3:17 says Jerusalem will be the "throne of the Lord". This is said in Amos, "
Amos 9:11,12 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:" Zech. 6:15 says this: "And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God." Those should be sufficient and while the millennial era will come before God re-creates a new heavens and earth. The earth at that time will most certainly be regenerated!
 

Sergius

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The Jews of Israel view of the end times is that they are expecting a messiah who fits their view of what the messiah is about.

Their concept of the messiah is that he will be a Jew who will fight to defend Israel, be a part of rebuilding the temple facility, and will become the leader of Israel as their king.

Their concept of the messiah is not as a savior of anyone's soul spiritually. Their concept of the messiah is that he will be their ultimate political and military leader, anointed as their King of Israel. And under his leadership, Israel will enter an age of peace and safety.
Is it the Jewish messiah or the Christian messiah that walks through the East Gate?
 

Douggg

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Is it the Jewish messiah or the Christian messiah that walks through the East Gate?
It will not be the Antichrist that will walk through the east gate

Ezekiel 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.

2 Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
 

Sergius

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Are there groups requesting the gate to be reopened with today’s construction equipment? Or to have the corpses respectfully moved that are in front of it?
 

Douggg

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Are there groups requesting the gate to be reopened with today’s construction equipment? Or to have the corpses respectfully moved that are in front of it?
I don't know. If there was such activity, I would think there would be some videos about it on You Tube.
 

Jay Ross

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I don't know. If there was such activity, I would think there would be some videos about it on You Tube.

Not only do we believe Dr. Google but we also believe Dr. U-tube.

Do we still believe the Bible, God's words to us or do we massage them to suit our own desires.
 
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What gets me is how people can read verses like…: Matt. 24:24 - "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

…then turn around and believe that a blood-thirsty, warmongering, Islamic leader whose (apparent) sole purpose is to destroy Israel and Christianity (in their eyes) could deceive anyone? No matter how many miracles a guy like this would do, the world won't "follow" that type of leader. They seem to have this picture of the a/c being some frothing at the mouth insane Saddam type character, when in fact the opposite is the most likely scenario.
I thought it might be a good idea to review what Israel’s end times beliefs are. I think their beliefs should give Christians a better idea on what the a/c will try to accomplish through deception. The following are excerpts from an article by Nissan Dovid Dubov on Chabad.org, a website on Jewish beliefs. Their word for Messiah is Mashiach. (non-italicized words in parenthesis mine)

“In Talmudic literature the title Mashiach, or Melech Hamashiach, (the King Messiah) is reserved for the Jewish leader who will redeem Israel in the End of Days.

One of the principles of Jewish faith enumerated by Maimonides is that one day there will arise a dynamic Jewish leader,
a direct descendant of the Davidic dynasty, who will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem and gather Jews from all over the world and bring them back to the Land of Israel. All the nations of the world will recognise Mashiach to be a world leader and will accept his dominion. In the messianic era there will be world peace, no more wars nor famine and, in general, a high standard of living. (1 Thess. 5:3)

The leadership quality of Mashiach means that through his dynamic personality and example, coupled with manifest humility, he will inspire all people to strive for good. He will transform a seemingly utopian dream into a reality. He will be recognised as a man of G–d with greater leadership qualities than even Moshe (Moses). Our prophets speak of the advent of a human leader, the magnitude of whom the world has not yet experienced. His unique example and leadership will inspire mankind to change direction…and will entail a return to Torah law, firmly ruling out any “other” messianic belief. (Christ) Mashiach will be a man who possesses extraordinary qualities. He will be proficient in both the written and oral Torah traditions. He will incessantly campaign for Torah observance among Jews and observance of the Seven Universal Noahide Laws by non-Jews. He will be scrupulously observant and encourage the highest standards from others. He will defend religious principles and repair breaches in their observance. Above all, Mashiach will be heralded as a true Jewish King, a person who leads the way in the service of G–d, totally humble yet enormously inspiring.

Jews anticipate the arrival of Mashiach everyday. However, the Talmud states that there is a predestined time when Mashiach will come. If we are meritorious he may come even before that predestined time. This “end of time” remains a mystery, yet the Talmud states that it will be before the Hebrew year 6000.

Any potential Mashiach must be a direct descendant of King David as well as erudite in Torah learning. It should be noted that many people living today can trace their lineage back to King David. The Chief Rabbi of Prague in the 16th Century, Rabbi Yehuda Loew (the Maharal), had a family tree that traced him back to the Davidic dynasty. Consequently, any direct descendant of the Maharal is of Davidic descent.

Maimonides, a great Jewish philosopher and codifier of the 12th Century, rules that if we recognise a human being who possesses the superlative qualities ascribed to Mashiach we may presume that he is the potential Mashiach.
If this individual actually succeeds in rebuilding the Temple and gathering in the exiles then he is the Mashiach.

Maimonides states in his Mishnah Torah – a compendium of the entire halachic tradition –
that Mashiach will first rebuild the Temple and then gather in the exiles. Jerusalem and the Temple will be the focus of Divine worship and “From Zion shall go forth Torah, and the word of the L–rd from Jerusalem.” The Talmud describes the period immediately prior to the advent of Mashiach as one of great travail and turmoil (birth pangs). There will be a world recession and governments will be controlled by despots. It is in this troubled setting that Mashiach will arrive

There is a tradition that Elijah the prophet will come to the world and announce the imminent arrival of Mashiach. However, according to other opinions, Mashiach may arrive unannounced. Elijah would then arrive to assist in the peace process. (The false prophet and the order of Rev. 13) Some suggest that if the Mashiach arrives in his predestined time then Elijah will announce his arrival, but if Mashiach comes suddenly then Elijah will appear after Mashiach has come. As mentioned before, it is unclear as to exactly how these events will unfold. However, this uncertainty does not affect the general matter of Mashiach’s arrival. (end of quoted material)

Remember a few years ago there was all this talk about a 12th Imam. Well also remember that Islam is a false religion with false prophets and false prophecies. There never will be a real 12th Imam. However, I wouldn’t put it past the Islamic leaders to “create” one to stimulate the war they so desire. This WW3 will probably be the event that will bring the Jewish messiah (Anti-Christ) to the forefront. Remember that the arrival of the Anti-Christ is a Jewish event not an Islamic one. He will come as Israel’s friend and benefactor, not their enemy. His goal is to get them to worship him, instead of God (the abomination of desolation). This what the term “anti” in anti-christ means, not the opposite of, but in place of.

Now a little about the anti-Christ. I don’t believe that Islam will be the vehicle of the antichrist. They will, in fact, ultimately go to war against each other. The anti in antichrist does not mean against Christ, it means instead of Christ. The antichrist’s goal will not be to destroy Israel but to take the praise and worship due to God and have the Jews worship him instead as foretold by Christ in John 5:43 - I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. Israel will believe the a/c is their prophesied messiah since they did not accept Christ and are still looking for another.

Satan is not a creator but he does copy or mimic the things of God to deceive people. Much of his and the a/c’s time on earth will be spent duplicating as closely as possible Jesus Christ in order to convince the world that he is Christ and to convince the Jews, he is their Messiah. We Christians have our Holy Trinity consisting of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Satan has his unholy trinity. In this unholy trinity, Satan wants to replace God, the a/c will be the acting god the son (even mimicking his death and resurrection in Rev. 13:3) and exercising the power of the Holy Spirit will be the false prophet, (compare Acts 1: 8 with Rev. 13:14). Satan will even have an equivalent archangel to Michael, his name is Abaddon or Apollyon as given in Rev. 9:11. They will excel at deceit as Matt. 24:24 points out. Only the elect, those who are born again with a knowledge of what to look for in the latter days, will be able to see through this deception.

For the Jews to accept him as their Messiah, there are some things that will need to fall into place. He will need to prove himself as coming from the line of David and thus will be of Jewish descent. He will likely come from the tribe of Dan as suggested in Jer. 8:16, and that is why Dan is not listed as one of the tribes in Rev. 7. It is possible that the faux messiah could be half Israeli and half Moslem, maybe even of the line of David “and” the line of Mohammad.

When he comes against the woman in Rev. 12, he is not coming against all of Israel but only those whose eyes are opened at the abomination of desolation and have now become believing Israel and reject him as messiah and turn to Christ per Zech. 12:10. They will most likely include the 144,000 of Rev. 7.

Some confusion undoubtedly arises from misinterpreting the sequence of Ez. 37 & 38. Chapter 37 has pre-millennial significance but chapter 38 has post millennial significance and is the same prophecy that is repeated in Rev. 20:8. However, cp.39 goes back to post 70th week significance. These are the only two places where Gog and Magog are mentioned together. So to sum up, the a/c will be Jewish, not Islamic.

He will fight against the Moslems as protector of Israel, not with them against Israel. His cohort, the false prophet could possibly be a pope and the a/c’s goal is to destroy the church and the Israel remnant who reject him because they will refuse to give him the worship that should be God’s, and thus in a manner of speaking, spit in God’s eye.
IMO: The Anti-Christ is a charismatic Middle-Eastern person who will arise, broker a peace agreement with Israel's foes, and will oversee the rebuilding of the Jewish temple.

Then he will take his seat in the temple, showing himself to be God (2Thessalonians 2:4).
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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IMO: The Anti-Christ is a charismatic Middle-Eastern person who will arise, broker a peace agreement with Israel's foes, and will oversee the rebuilding of the Jewish temple.

Then he will take his seat in the temple, showing himself to be God (2Thessalonians 2:4).
It's not possible for such a temple to be the temple of God as God does not dwell in temple's made with human hands (Acts 7:48, Acts 17:24) and any temple of God, whether physical or spiritual, is one that He would ordain to be built and would dwell in. He did not ordain any future physical Jewish temple built by Jews who reject Christ and He would certainly not dwell there. We (the church) are the temple of God (2 Cor 6:16, Ephesians 2:19-22).