What are we seeking?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
I had a thought tonight.

Most of Chirstianity, when it comes to Christ, is looking for safety and assurance. They are presented a Christ who offers them a comfortable and safe life here, where you go where you like and pick what you choose, AND assurance of eternal life.

Yet Christ is not someone we go to for comfort. The true Christ is not a place to receive a 'boost' and comfort for our lives. But a place to lay down our life. IF we lay down our life for him, we shall have life eternal.

Christ was persecuted and hated by all, how can we, if we truly follow him, be loved by the world that hated him? The more we love by God's love, the less we will be loved.
 

Jake

New Member
Aug 21, 2011
251
54
0
30
Western US
Amen brother!

You mentioned Jesus, but I can not help but think of Paul, who was anything but comfortable and secure, although he tells us that he was content in any and all situations, his joy was full, even though he was beaten, shipwrecked and nearly died many times. Paul's desire was to glorify God in all he did, and through all of his suffering's that is exactly what he did.

It seems we are given a choice, to live a life of comfort and security - I call this settling, this is all we do, we "feel" secure in Christ, but when we do this, it costs us of a life filled with His hidden treasures, a life of conforming and transforming to His image, a life of maturing and growing in Him. How could we give up what God wants to so much give to us!

There is so much more, and yes, we will suffer, it will cost us, but look what we receive in return!

Bless you, brother
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
Amen!

As Paul, 'I count the sufferings of the present time to be little in comparison to the glory we will share in'.

The message of Christ is not about salvation, but about glory. Salvation is given to any who do what is right. But glory is given to those who suffer for Christ, which is the call of the Christian. If we give him glory in this life, and share in his sufferings, we will share in his joy and comfort forever, and his glory in the next age!

Bless you too, my brother :) May we walk worthily
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
108
0
44
Australia
I had a thought tonight.

Most of Chirstianity, when it comes to Christ, is looking for safety and assurance. They are presented a Christ who offers them a comfortable and safe life here, where you go where you like and pick what you choose, AND assurance of eternal life.

Hey Ho Prentis! I just thought I'd jump in here. Having a bit different a 'doctrine' regarding all this, I just wanted to add my 2 cents.
I think you must mean me, and people like me, when you say that we look for safety and assurance in Christ. That's not really so. The Bible tells us that in Jesus we have assurance of salvation, but that's kinda it! Meaning: that our lives cannot be expected to be cosy and safe now that we are Christians. We are told that whoever believes in Jesus will have eternal life. But we are also told that in following Jesus we will have hardship and suffering. The safety and assurance that comes out of that is this: while we may have to 'take up our cross' to follow Jesus, we can rest in the knowledge that this life is but a little while, and by holding His hand and walking through the pain, we will see Him face to face at the end. That gives amazing comfort and security...it gives strength to endure what ever we are given from this life.

Yet Christ is not someone we go to for comfort. The true Christ is not a place to receive a 'boost' and comfort for our lives. But a place to lay down our life. IF we lay down our life for him, we shall have life eternal.

I agree with all that except the "IF we lay down our life for Him, we shall have life eternal". The Bible just does not say that. It simply does not. It says that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. Every passage that talks of salvation, speaks of belief and faith in Jesus, in His saving work, the good news He brought. That good new? That in that one action on the cross, He exchanged our sins, for His perfect life. Augustine calls it "the great exchange". In that one action, we have eternal life if we believe in Him and what He did.
It is after this belief, after the recieving of the free gift of grace, that we are called to live a life 'worthy' of Christ. Yes it tells us to persevers, yes it tells us to run the race, but all under the banner of grace...which is freely given. It cannot be a free gift if we have to then 'earn it back'. Any truly born again Christian delights in living a life of perseverance. We struggle, but are comforted by what we are told....God loves us, He sent His son to randsom us...it is done!

Christ was persecuted and hated by all, how can we, if we truly follow him, be loved by the world that hated him? The more we love by God's love, the less we will be loved.

This is true. But we must not revel in this hatred. Because those who hate us will not hear the good news we are to tell them. We must strive to be a light out there amongst the hate...not grin back at it, thinking 'alright! They hate me, so that's a good sign for me!'...Jesus tells us that we are to love others. We need to try and break through that apparent distaste people have for 'Christians' and show them why we live the way we do.
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,494
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Pretty interesting comments. I suppose one error -- or should I say thing you may have done first -- was to ask those on this board what they are looking for. Comfort, safety, assurance, eternal life, glory... All good answers and I can think of at least one verse that says those things are ours. How about Truth? I was brought to the full light by a minister who spoke the Truth and backed it up with human reasoning and scripture.

we are indeed promised to be hated as well.
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
Yes, I realize the flaw in how I explained this. Thanks FHII! :)

The error is not to seek safety in Christ of course. But it is to think that Christ desires a carnally safe life. God is not a perpetuator of the bourgeois, middle class lifestyle.

Our safety must be in Christ. But that means that while we are safe in Christ, the storm is raging all around us.
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
I understand it to mean to die daily, and to surrender fully to Christ. We must give up our life to have his.

The cross works death in our life, that it might work life. We are crucified with him that we would be ressurected with him, not only in the physical sense. :)
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
108
0
44
Australia
I understand it to mean to die daily, and to surrender fully to Christ. We must give up our life to have his.

The cross works death in our life, that it might work life. We are crucified with him that we >would be ressurected with him, not only in the physical sense. :)

I have no objection to this at all, in fact amen! But why do you say that this is incompatible with assured salvation?
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
Because... A father asked both his sons to work in the field, one says yes, the other no. They end up doing the opposite of what they say, which pleased his father?

My point is this, God freely gives us the grace to do his will, but we must decide to go through ith it.

As it says, 'if we suffer with him, we will also be glorified with him'. :)
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
108
0
44
Australia
Because... A father asked both his sons to work in the field, one says yes, the other no. They end up doing the opposite of what they say, which pleased his father?

My point is this, God freely gives us the grace to do his will, but we must decide to go through ith it.

As it says, 'if we suffer with him, we will also be glorified with him'. :)

I'm afraid that really doesn't say that salvation isn't assured...that is only your assumption of the passage.
'Endure' through hardship, 'suffer' with Him, 'run' the race...they all teach us perseverance in a difficult world that opposes the will of God. They are promises of rewards to those who stand strong! But we already know that there will be different rewards in heaven, that some will be given more responsibility and trust, due to that very perseverance. But that in no way excludes 'assurance of salvation'. In fact, based on the number of scriptures that tell us that it is, in fact, assured, I cannot see how you can justify making all the other passages deny it...especially when they just don't! Let's look at some of the more classic 'salvation' passages, and see what it requires for one to receive salvation...keeping in mind that these passages never give the proviso: but to keep it, you need to shape up!

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16 ESV)

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26 ESV)

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:1-11 ESV)


This passage also touches on our suffering, and why it is important to persevere. It produces endurance, character and finally hope.
We also know that when we 'run' the race, 'suffer' with Christ and 'endure' to the end, that we will receive a reward (Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. (James 1:12 ESV)).
These passages are not talking about losing our salvation! Our salvation was a free gift, given to us by God through the work of Jesus. We cheapen both the cross and the gift by saying it comes with a proviso. We know that the more we persevere on earth, through the hardships a sinful generation tosses at us, that we will be blessed in heaven...(Matthew 5:2-12, the beatitudes). None of this, in any way, leads us to suppose that if we stumble, we will lose our salvation. Salvation through Jesus, gives us assurance because it is His strength that holds it, His righteousness and His faithfulness in His promises. And His promises above tell us that to have eternal life, we only need to believe! We know He is faithful:

if we are faithless, he remains faithful—
for he cannot deny himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13 ESV)


None of these passages deny that for those who truly love Jesus, those who truly have the Holy Spirit and a regenerated heart, will live for Him, bringing the flesh under that renewed heart and purpose...to love and glorify God. But they certainly deny that we need to 'earn' our salvation, that we must strive for it's upkeep.
As I said once before....assurance of salvation is harmonious with a life lived for Jesus. But when you begin to espouse a doctrine that makes that Christ like living a necessity to keep something He already died to give you for free....then you start pitting verses against one another.
 

Comm.Arnold

New Member
Apr 7, 2011
662
14
0
40
The kingdom in Matthew 13:44

"Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field."

as I paste this two demons of lust and envy go flying by I almost slayed one of them today I had that pervert sweating ....be very careful all who read. Jesus is Lord no evil is meant by this passage.
 

Prentis

New Member
May 25, 2011
2,047
92
0
31
Montreal, Qc
He who deny's me before men, I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

We must understand that the gifts are without repentance, that is, the gifts of the Spirit. As long as we live, the anointing we have been given is available to us. Only if we use it for ourselves or do not use it all, we will be rejected.

He who endures to the end, he shall be saved.
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
108
0
44
Australia
He who deny's me before men, I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

We must understand that the gifts are without repentance, that is, the gifts of the Spirit. As long as we live, the anointing we have been given is available to us. Only if we use it for ourselves or do not use it all, we will be rejected.

He who endures to the end, he shall be saved.

Yeah...sorry, I didn't follow that!

And also, you seemed to have nicely skipped around all my points. The verses I posted above show us that we can, in fact, have assurance of salvation, just in believing in the Son. It says nothing about needing to maintain or add to, or any provisos. If you believe, you have eternal life. So why then, reading those blatantly clear verses, do you think I am way off base with my 'doctrine'?