What had happened to the United States?

[TopherNelson]

What is wrong with us? Political correctness is killing this great nation. Below are the many issues the U.S. is facing. I am not trying to provoke anyone or any party. I am just stating my opinion.

Gun control and gun free zone.
Another one this morning! (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/10/09/one-person-dead-and-three-injured-in-shooting-at-northern-arizona-university/73639918/) People, it is not the gun that kills, it is the one using the gun as a weapon. Just because of a minority of those criminals are not following the law, we can't have guns? Guns are not safe?

Obama's Logic:

Gun free zones are what causes all this! Criminals by definition does not follow the law! What's the point of gun free zone!


Christianity
I firmly believe that we are a nation under God. Look what had happened to this country when God is kicked out of the constitution?

Bible banned in school. (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/brittany-m-hughes/florida-schools-ban-bibles-after-pressure-atheists)

Children suspended in school for saying "God Bless You". (http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/26320134/dyer-county-student-reportedly-suspended-after-saying-bless-you)

Removal of a ten commandments momentum. (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/08/10-commandments-removed-state-capitol-per-oklahoma-supreme-court/)

And many many more!


Political Correctness
In school, shirts thing that have old glory on it is banned! Anything that shows "racism and political incorrectness" is banned! Chapels in colleges are being modified into a mosque for the muslims! Why can the muslims pray while we can't! I see no logic in that! Why can the muslims refuges fight and declare war on us while we can't even show patriotism to our own country? Why can't we wave our own flag while the Mexicans in the U.S. can? Why can the muslims practice their faith in school and government grounds freely while we the true Americans and christians can't?

We as a nation is experiencing the down fall since we kicked God out. What can we do? We are being overtaken by people that wants to destroy this nation! This nation believes in liberty and justice for all. If you disagree, don't come!

I am speechless. Day by day, I am becoming more speechless. Revelations are being fulfilled.

We can only pray that God would stop all these. Right now, we can...

Battle Hymn of the Republic
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored.
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of his terrible, swift sword;
His truth is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before his judgment seat.
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer him; be jubilant my feet!
Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies, Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me.
As he died to make men holy, let us live to make men free,
While God is marching on.

I love this song, there is truth to it!

 

[Barrd]

I am about to turn 65. I am old enough to remember when we prayed in school. It was a pretty simple prayer, at least where I went to school. Just thanking God for our parents and our teachers, and asking Him to guide us in our studies...and amen.
And then the move was on to remove prayer from school.
The adults around me said, "This is America! This is a Christian nation! It can't happen here!

And then...it did.

Since then, slowly but surely, our Christianity is being undermined. Not all at once. That's not the way Satan works. No, it is happening slowly, bit by bit...a little at a time, so that we don't notice.

This is no longer the nation I knew as a child. And we are well on the way to becoming a third world nation...

Are we surprised that we no longer have the power we once had in the world? We should not be. We kicked God off the throne...we threw Him out of the Oval Office. Just as the Israelites did back in the time of Samuel, we asked God to abdicate...and, like the Gentleman that He is, He doesn't stay where He is not wanted.
It took two generations for Israel to be torn in two after that....and my generation is dying off....


David, my little brother in the Lord...I very greatly fear that your children...and maybe even you and your friends....will eventually be forced to worship our God in a dark basement...if you dare to worship Him at all.
Oh, Land of the Free...wake up! Wake up!
On your feet, precious Home of the Brave!
We must fight back, before it's too late!!

 

[River Jordan]

What is wrong with us? Political correctness is killing this great nation.

I don't understand. By most measures, things are pretty good.

Gun free zones are what causes all this! Criminals by definition does not follow the law! What's the point of gun free zone!

Then why are schools also drug free zones?

I firmly believe that we are a nation under God. Look what had happened to this country when God is kicked out of the constitution?

God never was in the Constitution.

Bible banned in school. (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/brittany-m-hughes/florida-schools-ban-bibles-after-pressure-atheists)

Read your own article. The Bible wasn't "banned from school". Students are still free to bring their own Bibles to school as much as they like. The only thing that happened there was an outside group was prevented from distributing Bibles to students on school grounds. Did you know yesterday was Bring Your Bible To School Day? Millions of students all over the country brought their Bibles to school, without any issues.

Children suspended in school for saying "God Bless You". (http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/26320134/dyer-county-student-reportedly-suspended-after-saying-bless-you)

I can't really comment on this, since I can't find anything beyond the original incident. We don't know how this ended up.

Removal of a ten commandments momentum. (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/08/10-commandments-removed-state-capitol-per-oklahoma-supreme-court/)

Well, yeah. Oklahoma put up the 10 Commandments monument, and then refused to allow any others from other faiths. That's illegal, and would still be so if it was a Muslim or other monument.

In school, shirts thing that have old glory on it is banned! Anything that shows "racism and political incorrectness" is banned! Chapels in colleges are being modified into a mosque for the muslims! Why can the muslims pray while we can't! I see no logic in that! Why can the muslims refuges fight and declare war on us while we can't even show patriotism to our own country? Why can't we wave our own flag while the Mexicans in the U.S. can? Why can the muslims practice their faith in school and government grounds freely while we the true Americans and christians can't?

I think your perception of reality is being influenced by reading far right-wing news sites. Try being more objective.

We as a nation is experiencing the down fall since we kicked God out.

Wut? When did we kick God out? And how do you do that anyways? :wacko:

We are being overtaken by people that wants to destroy this nation!

Who?

This nation believes in liberty and justice for all.

Yeah, exactly....for all. Not just for Christians.

 

[River Jordan]

I am about to turn 65. I am old enough to remember when we prayed in school. It was a pretty simple prayer, at least where I went to school. Just thanking God for our parents and our teachers, and asking Him to guide us in our studies...and amen.
And then the move was on to remove prayer from school.
The adults around me said, "This is America! This is a Christian nation! It can't happen here!

And then...it did.

Well, yeah....because as it turns out, not everyone in those classrooms were Christians. Yet the government (the school) was coercing them into saying Christian prayers. I'm sure we'd all be upset if the school was leading students in a Muslim prayer. Understand that, and you'll understand why it's just as wrong for the government to lead students in a Christian prayer.

Since then, slowly but surely, our Christianity is being undermined

Again, where? All I've seen are examples of Christians being used to having the entire system run their way, for their benefit, now having that exclusive privilege taken away. IOW, it looks like it's not Christianity that's being undermined, but Christian privilege.

And we are well on the way to becoming a third world nation...

We are? :blink:

Are we surprised that we no longer have the power we once had in the world?

What power are you talking about?

We kicked God off the throne...we threw Him out of the Oval Office.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. How can any human being kick God off His throne, and at what point was God in the Oval Office running the country?

 

[Barrd]

Well, yeah....because as it turns out, not everyone in those classrooms were Christians. Yet the government (the school) was coercing them into saying Christian prayers. I'm sure we'd all be upset if the school was leading students in a Muslim prayer. Understand that, and you'll understand why it's just as wrong for the government to lead students in a Christian prayer.

I don't know what it was like anywhere else...I was just a kid.
But as far as I know, nobody was being coerced, and the prayer was pretty generic. Anyone's "god" would fit. No one was being forced to pray at all...although we were being forced to say the pledge of allegiance...which included the phrase "one nation under God".
Anyone who refused to stand and say it...as I did...got detention. Even then, I thought it was pretty hypocritical to say that we could no longer pray, but we had to pledge our allegiance to a piece of cloth and a bunch of lies.
I'm afraid I've never been much of a patriot

Again, where? All I've seen are examples of Christians being used to having the entire system run their way, for their benefit, now having that exclusive privilege taken away. IOW, it looks like it's not Christianity that's being undermined, but Christian privilege.

That's because this was a Christian nation.
Yes, I know the hype. But the history that was taught back then was a bit different than the history being taught now. And most of our population claimed Christianity as their faith. It was rare, even in New York City, to meet anyone who was not a Christian. Where I grew up, it was unheard of.

We are? :blink:

You've not heard about the troubles with the American dollar?

http://www.profitconfidential.com/u-s-dollar/u-s-dollar-collapse/

What power are you talking about?

You did not know that we were once considered the leaders of the free world?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. How can any human being kick God off His throne, and at what point was God in the Oval Office running the country?

1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
1Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
1Sa 8:13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
1Sa 8:14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
1Sa 8:15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
1Sa 8:16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
1Sa 8:17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
t1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
1Sa 8:21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
1Sa 8:22 And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

Israel told God they did not want Him to be King over them. They wanted a human king, instead.
They did not recognize their King when He came to them...they were looking for a human king.
To this day, they are expecting a human Messiah....

 

[TopherNelson]

Regarding the bring your bible to school day, I do not know about that. I do not live in the United States. I am currently living in a muslim country. The U.S used to be the land of opportunity. It used to be a Christian majority nation. I know what the muslims are up to Cultural jihad! It is worse than war!

 

[Barrd]

Regarding the bring your bible to school day, I do not know about that. I do not live in the United States. I am currently living in a muslim country. The U.S used to be the land of opportunity. It used to be a Christian majority nation. I know what the muslims are up to Cultural jihad! It is worse than war!

I asked once, why their kids were allowed to pray in school.
The official answer was because their religion required it.They must pray five times a day.
But then, someone told me, in confidence, that it was because of the s...t storm that would happen if they were not allowed to pray. "Christian parents aren't likely to kill you," I was told.

 

[River Jordan]

I don't know what it was like anywhere else...I was just a kid.
But as far as I know, nobody was being coerced, and the prayer was pretty generic. Anyone's "god" would fit. No one was being forced to pray at all...although we were being forced to say the pledge of allegiance...which included the phrase "one nation under God".
Anyone who refused to stand and say it...as I did...got detention. Even then, I thought it was pretty hypocritical to say that we could no longer pray, but we had to pledge our allegiance to a piece of cloth and a bunch of lies.
I'm afraid I've never been much of a patriot

When a teacher (or other school official) stands before the students and tells them its time to pray and leads them in prayer, that is coercion. The courts have been extremely consistent on this. Students are free to pray as they wish (as long as it's not disruptive), but the school can't tell them to.

Also, it is illegal to force students to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

That's because this was a Christian nation. Yes, I know the hype. But the history that was taught back then was a bit different than the history being taught now. And most of our population claimed Christianity as their faith. It was rare, even in New York City, to meet anyone who was not a Christian. Where I grew up, it was unheard of.

Yes, the US was (and still is) populated and run mostly by Christians. But we are also supposed to have a religiously-neutral government. Now that more of our population aren't Christian, and the non-Christians have managed to legally push back against Christian privilege, a lot of conservative Christians are taking that as "persecution", when in reality it's more a loss of special privilege.

You've not heard about the troubles with the American dollar?

http://www.profitconfidential.com/u-s-dollar/u-s-dollar-collapse/

I know conservatives have been playing chicken little with these predictions for quite a long time now.

You did not know that we were once considered the leaders of the free world?

And we aren't now?

Israel told God they did not want Him to be King over them. They wanted a human king, instead.
They did not recognize their King when He came to them...they were looking for a human king.
To this day, they are expecting a human Messiah....

Not sure how that applies to the US, since we've always had a human in charge.

 

[Barrd]

When a teacher (or other school official) stands before the students and tells them its time to pray and leads them in prayer, that is coercion. The courts have been extremely consistent on this. Students are free to pray as they wish (as long as it's not disruptive), but the school can't tell them to.

Well, like I said, I was only a kid. Where I lived, the teacher did not stand in front of the class and tell anyone to pray. The prayer came over the intercom, and kids were free to participate or not. This was a small town in upstate New York not far from Buffalo.

Also, it is illegal to force students to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Someone should have told our school principle that. I know I did a lot of detention because I refused to say it. Hey, this was early 60's.

Yes, the US was (and still is) populated and run mostly by Christians. But we are also supposed to have a religiously-neutral government. Now that more of our population aren't Christian, and the non-Christians have managed to legally push back against Christian privilege, a lot of conservative Christians are taking that as "persecution", when in reality it's more a loss of special privilege.

I don't just mean that it was and still is populated and run mostly by Christians (I'm not so sure of that, really)...what I mean is that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and ethics, by men who (as I was taught in school) were Christians. Yes, yes, I know...they were "deists", blah blah blah, "Treaty of Tripoli", blah blah blahdi, blah...
But, again, this is not the way it was taught in our history books 50 years ago.
Treaty of Tripoli? A treaty made with Muslim pirates, no less! But no one wants to talk about the hundreds and hundreds of treaties we've made in the name of the Christian God this nation once honored above all else.
Do you think it is a "good thing" that "non-Christians have managed to legally push back against Christian privilege"? I don't.
No, it isn't "persecution"....yet. And I stress yet.
What was so terrible about Christians living in a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles by men who were Christians having what you call "special privilege'? Have you ever visited a Muslim nation? Or a Buddhist nation? Have you ever visited any nation where the majority of people believed in a different religion?
If you haven't, you ought to.
Oh, and do mention that you are a Christian.

I know conservatives have been playing chicken little with these predictions for quite a long time now.

Yeah....
I wonder why?

And we aren't now?

Are we?
When was the last time we actually won a war?

And have you forgotten 911? An attack on our own soil! The brave men, like my Dad, who fought in WW2 (the big one) would be appalled!
At one time, when our Prez spoke, the rest of the world listened. Now, the rest of the world smirks behind their hands...

Come to think of it...so do we...

Not sure how that applies to the US, since we've always had a human in charge.

From George Washington, who referred to "that Almighty Being" during his inaugural address in 1789, to Obama, who mentions God no less than five times in his inaugural addresses, God has played a part in our government.
Of course, when George said it, he meant it. Barak?

Did you know that every session of Congress still opens with prayer? Of course, these days, it isn't always Christian prayer.

When was the last time you attended a "National Day of Prayer"? Here in this small town in Alabama, we still gather at the courthouse for community prayers...as far as I know, it isn't illegal...yet. And again, I stress yet. Of course, here we still pray in school...yes, teachers here do lead their kids in Christian prayer...and we still have those beautiful Christian plays (I know, I'm usually one of the writers), and we still do have "In God We Trust" in our courthouse (and the Ten Commandments, too), and we put up our Nativity on public property every year....one at the courthouse, and one at the public park on the corner...and you will hear "Merry Christmas" at our WalMart Super Center...
We are a very small town, well off the beaten path...and while we do get chilling glimpses of the real world from time to time, here, at least, life is pretty serene. We don't have any pregnant girls in our high school, we don't have any "gay pride" parades", we don't have any gang wars...we do have a lot of speculation as to what the train brings in here late at night, but that's about it. Oh, and there was some talk when Alabama shipped out all three of our illegal Mexicans.

Where people actually worship God, things are a bit different.

Once we took God away from our children, it was only a matter of time...

This is only the first generation. Stick around.
Of course, I'll be out of here before the next crop of God-haters grows up.
But do remember....

I told you so....

 

[TopherNelson]

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

 

[River Jordan]

Well, like I said, I was only a kid. Where I lived, the teacher did not stand in front of the class and tell anyone to pray. The prayer came over the intercom, and kids were free to participate or not. This was a small town in upstate New York not far from Buffalo.

Someone should have told our school principle that. I know I did a lot of detention because I refused to say it. Hey, this was early 60's.

All of that was illegal then, and still is now. Basically what you're telling me is "Yes we broke the law back then and still do today, but it's a small town so no one notices".

I don't just mean that it was and still is populated and run mostly by Christians (I'm not so sure of that, really)...what I mean is that this nation was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and ethics, by men who (as I was taught in school) were Christians. Yes, yes, I know...they were "deists", blah blah blah, "Treaty of Tripoli", blah blah blahdi, blah...
But, again, this is not the way it was taught in our history books 50 years ago.
Treaty of Tripoli? A treaty made with Muslim pirates, no less! But no one wants to talk about the hundreds and hundreds of treaties we've made in the name of the Christian God this nation once honored above all else.

Yet those founders deliberately, and specifically set the federal gov't up to be non-religious. What you're seeing now is implementation of that.

Do you think it is a "good thing" that "non-Christians have managed to legally push back against Christian privilege"? I don't.

Of course it's a good thing! You really think when things were run for your benefit, that was better? You can't put yourself in someone else's shoes...US citizens no less....and think about what it was like for them to see Christians get all those extra privileges that they were denied?

That sounds to me like you don't mind an unfair system, as long as it's unfair in your favor. Do you see how that comes across as selfish?

No, it isn't "persecution"....yet. And I stress yet.

What are you expecting to happen?

What was so terrible about Christians living in a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles by men who were Christians having what you call "special privilege'? Have you ever visited a Muslim nation? Or a Buddhist nation? Have you ever visited any nation where the majority of people believed in a different religion?

Are you saying we should be the Christian equivalent of Saudi Arabia?

Oh, and do mention that you are a Christian.

Of course I am. Don't think that just because I don't buy into the right-wing Christian political rhetoric, that doesn't mean I'm not a Christian.

Yeah....
I wonder why?

Because it's a convenient talking point for Republicans whenever a Democrat is in the White House.

Are we?
When was the last time we actually won a war?

Militarily, we still win wars. We won Iraq, militarily. We beat their army and overthrew their gov't in 2 weeks! Of course the problem was we had no idea what to do afterwards, and once Saddam was out, the fantasies our leadership had going in were exposed as the lies/ignorance they were ("greeted as liberators", "they'll pay for their own reconstruction", "no history of ethnic strife"). So militarily, it was a cake walk. Politically however, well, we see what it is....a nightmare.

And have you forgotten 911? An attack on our own soil!

I don't know how closely you follow world events, but no country has really been immune from domestic terrorist attacks.

At one time, when our Prez spoke, the rest of the world listened. Now, the rest of the world smirks behind their hands...

Come to think of it...so do we...

That's just rhetoric.

From George Washington, who referred to "that Almighty Being" during his inaugural address in 1789, to Obama, who mentions God no less than five times in his inaugural addresses, God has played a part in our government.
Of course, when George said it, he meant it. Barak?

Did you know that every session of Congress still opens with prayer? Of course, these days, it isn't always Christian prayer.

When was the last time you attended a "National Day of Prayer"?

I'm not sure what your point is.

Here in this small town in Alabama, we still gather at the courthouse for community prayers...as far as I know, it isn't illegal...yet. And again, I stress yet. Of course, here we still pray in school...yes, teachers here do lead their kids in Christian prayer...and we still have those beautiful Christian plays (I know, I'm usually one of the writers), and we still do have "In God We Trust" in our courthouse (and the Ten Commandments, too), and we put up our Nativity on public property every year....one at the courthouse, and one at the public park on the corner...and you will hear "Merry Christmas" at our WalMart Super Center...
We are a very small town, well off the beaten path...and while we do get chilling glimpses of the real world from time to time, here, at least, life is pretty serene. We don't have any pregnant girls in our high school, we don't have any "gay pride" parades", we don't have any gang wars...we do have a lot of speculation as to what the train brings in here late at night, but that's about it. Oh, and there was some talk when Alabama shipped out all three of our illegal Mexicans.

So you basically live in a little Christian theocracy. But since you're a Christian, you don't see any problem with that. Like I said, that strikes me as a bit selfish.

Where people actually worship God, things are a bit different.

Once we took God away from our children, it was only a matter of time...

This is only the first generation. Stick around.
Of course, I'll be out of here before the next crop of God-haters grows up.
But do remember....

I told you so....

I suppose if I lived in a town where everything was rigged in my favor, I might be like you and fear the day when that privilege was taken away.

 

[Barrd]

All of that was illegal then, and still is now. Basically what you're telling me is "Yes we broke the law back then and still do today, but it's a small town so no one notices".

Prayer in school was legal before 1962.
If putting me in detention for not saying the pledge was not legal, I did not know that, being only 12 or 13 years old when I decided that, if my school couldn't pray any more, then I would not pledge allegiance to a bunch of lies any more.
As I said, the principal of the school thought it was legal to make me stay after school.

Yet those founders deliberately, and specifically set the federal gov't up to be non-religious. What you're seeing now is implementation of that.

I'm not sure how anyone gets that idea. The first amendment specifically protects the church from government interference.
Notice, the first amendment does not say that the church cannot get involved in the government, or in politics....it says that Congress shall not make any law that interferes with religion.
At the time, Christianity was the only religion here. There simply weren't too many Europeans who were not Christians, and I seriously doubt that any of the founding fathers ever expected America to become home to the many different religions we have here today.
Now, don't get me wrong....I believe that everyone ought to have the right to practice the religion of their choice...as long as they aren't into sacrificing virgins or burning little babies to death...
I just believe with all of my soul that this was intended to be a Christian nation. I'm not buying the tommyrot that the founding fathers intended this to be a secular nation.
The whole "separation of church and state" line came about because Ben Franklin was assuring some folks in a letter than no one particular Christian denomination would ever be the "state religion", but that all Christian denominations would be free to worship the Christian God as they saw fit.

Of course it's a good thing! You really think when things were run for your benefit, that was better? You can't put yourself in someone else's shoes...US citizens no less....and think about what it was like for them to see Christians get all those extra privileges that they were denied?

I'm not exactly sure what "privileges" you are on about, to begin with.
The privilege of seeing the symbols of our religion in our courthouses, or on our public lands that we pat taxes on? The privilege of seeing our children singing "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" in their school Christmas pageant? The privilege of bowing our heads to pray openly, where ever we happen to be? The privilege of giving Bibles away to anyone who might want one, even on school property?
Or maybe the privilege of living in a nation where the sacrament of marriage is respected, instead of being made the sham that it is today?
The privilege of stating that my business, which belongs to me, will be run according to the Christian principles that I believe in?
Perhaps the privilege of teaching my children that abstinence may be the most difficult form of birth control...but it is the ONLY method that works?

Speaking of which, what about the right to life for EVERY citizen...even the unborn?
Why does our government supposedly guarantee inalienable rights bestowed on all men by our Creator?

That sounds to me like you don't mind an unfair system, as long as it's unfair in your favor. Do you see how that comes across as selfish?

Are you saying, then, that Christianity is "unfair" or "selfish"?

What are you expecting to happen?

I'm expecting things to get worse. Already there have been a few, very minor incidents. A young couple were beaten up not far from my home town a few years ago, because the girl was carrying a Bible.
There will be more incidents like this:

http://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1901-2000/columbine-killers-targeted-christians-too-11630857.html

Are you saying we should be the Christian equivalent of Saudi Arabia?

No, of course not.
We do not need to persecute other faiths.
What the OP would like to know....and I would also like to know, however, is why is it permissible for Muslim kids to get out their prayer rugs and their beanies five times a day and pray, in school or not, while Christian kids are not?
So, their religion requires it? Yes....and ours somehow does not require us to pray?
And who is it that is prating about what is fair?

Of course I am. Don't think that just because I don't buy into the right-wing Christian political rhetoric, that doesn't mean I'm not a Christian.

Christians are those who obey God.
They do not advocate the killing of unborn children.
They do not champion gay marriage.
The center of their lives....of everything that they do, and everything that they say....is Jesus Christ.
Now, I'm not saying that you are, or are not a Christian.
I am saying that a Christian is one who worships Christ over and above everything else...

Because it's a convenient talking point for Republicans whenever a Democrat is in the White House.

Or, it could be because our economy sucks.

Militarily, we still win wars. We won Iraq, militarily. We beat their army and overthrew their gov't in 2 weeks! Of course the problem was we had no idea what to do afterwards, and once Saddam was out, the fantasies our leadership had going in were exposed as the lies/ignorance they were ("greeted as liberators", "they'll pay for their own reconstruction", "no history of ethnic strife"). So militarily, it was a cake walk. Politically however, well, we see what it is....a nightmare.

Politically, we have not won anything.
Perhaps, if we quit being so concerned about being "politically correct" and fearlessly stood up and told the actual truth, for a change...
We might actually make a difference in the world.

You know...they way we once did.

I don't know how closely you follow world events, but no country has really been immune from domestic terrorist attacks.

Up until 911, we pretty much were.
Unless you count Pearl Harbor. Which is what got us involved in WW2...which the Allies decisively won, both "militarily" and "politically".

We should have retaliated immediately....bombing Mecca might have been a good idea, for instance.

That's just rhetoric.

The fact that our prez does not command the respect of his own people, let alone the rest of the world, is hardly rhetoric.

I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that, by putting God out of the classroom, we have guaranteed a generation of kids who are growing up without the love, and the fear of God that we once had.
No one should be terribly surprised that more and more young people have been lost to atheism. We've made it the most attractive alternative of all...

To quote Mr. Vladimir Lenin: "Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."

So you basically live in a little Christian theocracy. But since you're a Christian, you don't see any problem with that. Like I said, that strikes me as a bit selfish.

Everyone here seems to be pretty happy with the situation. If they were not, don't you suppose we'd have the ACLU breathing down our necks?
We have little or no teen pregnancies, while we do have kids who smoke pot, we do not have the violent gang wars and drive bys that plague other towns...
We're a pretty peaceful little community.
Call me selfish...but I like knowing that my kids and grandkids are growing up in a Christian community.

I suppose if I lived in a town where everything was rigged in my favor, I might be like you and fear the day when that privilege was taken away.

Oh, we know it can't last forever.
Sooner or later, the world will discover us, tucked away down here in the Bible belt.
Till it does, however, we intend to enjoy real religious freedom, the way our nation's founding fathers actually intended.

 

[River Jordan]

Prayer in school was legal before 1962.

And slavery was legal before the Civil War.

I'm not sure how anyone gets that idea.

Because if the founding fathers intended for the US to be a Christian theocracy, they would have written the Constitution to say so. Instead, there's nothing in it about God or Christianity, and the only mentions of religions are restrictions on the government getting involved in it. They even specified that it is illegal to have religious tests for public office.

Notice, the first amendment does not say that the church cannot get involved in the government, or in politics....it says that Congress shall not make any law that interferes with religion.

Of course religious people can get involved in politics....they do all the time. They even run on religiously-inspired platforms, and there's nothing wrong with that either. But that's not the same thing as mandating that the government must adhere to Christianity. Why do you think the founders very clearly wrote that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, rather than the Bible?

At the time, Christianity was the only religion here.

Um....no it wasn't.

I just believe with all of my soul that this was intended to be a Christian nation. I'm not buying the tommyrot that the founding fathers intended this to be a secular nation.

Based on what? The Constitution very deliberately set up a secular government, so where do you get the idea that what they really wanted was a Christian theocracy?

The whole "separation of church and state" line came about because Ben Franklin was assuring some folks in a letter than no one particular Christian denomination would ever be the "state religion", but that all Christian denominations would be free to worship the Christian God as they saw fit.

No, it was a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Dansbury Baptists.

I'm not exactly sure what "privileges" you are on about, to begin with.

You state them yourself.

The privilege of seeing the symbols of our religion in our courthouses, or on our public lands that we pat taxes on? The privilege of seeing our children singing "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" in their school Christmas pageant? The privilege of bowing our heads to pray openly, where ever we happen to be? The privilege of giving Bibles away to anyone who might want one, even on school property?
Or maybe the privilege of living in a nation where the sacrament of marriage is respected, instead of being made the sham that it is today?
The privilege of stating that my business, which belongs to me, will be run according to the Christian principles that I believe in?
Perhaps the privilege of teaching my children that abstinence may be the most difficult form of birth control...but it is the ONLY method that works?

When you have all of those things, while at the same time refuse to grant them to others, that is the very definition of privilege.

Do you think Muslims should have their symbols in government buildings? School kids sing Jewish songs at Jewish Holiday pageants? Mormons giving away the Book of Mormon at school? Mormons being allowed to have multiple wives? Atheists refusing to serve Christians in public businesses?

Speaking of which, what about the right to life for EVERY citizen...even the unborn?
Why does our government supposedly guarantee inalienable rights bestowed on all men by our Creator?

The actual wording is "endowed by their creator", which means whatever creator each of us happens to believe in.

Are you saying, then, that Christianity is "unfair" or "selfish"?

No, I'm saying you are when you demand special privileges for yourself.

I'm expecting things to get worse.

And "worse" includes loss of the special privileges you've enjoyed.

Already there have been a few, very minor incidents. A young couple were beaten up not far from my home town a few years ago, because the girl was carrying a Bible.
There will be more incidents like this:

http://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1901-2000/columbine-killers-targeted-christians-too-11630857.html

The Columbine story is a myth.

No, of course not.
We do not need to persecute other faiths.

Do you believe people of all faiths should have the same privileges as you do in your town?

What the OP would like to know....and I would also like to know, however, is why is it permissible for Muslim kids to get out their prayer rugs and their beanies five times a day and pray, in school or not, while Christian kids are not?
So, their religion requires it? Yes....and ours somehow does not require us to pray?
And who is it that is prating about what is fair?

Huh? :blink: Both Muslim and Christian students (and all students for that matter) are allowed to pray in school. Just because Christianity doesn't have a specific mandate about timing doesn't mean that isn't fair.

<the rest of this post, your quotes are in italics...ran out of allowable quotes....goofy forum!>


"Christians are those who obey God.
They do not advocate the killing of unborn children.
They do not champion gay marriage.
The center of their lives....of everything that they do, and everything that they say....is Jesus Christ.
Now, I'm not saying that you are, or are not a Christian.
I am saying that a Christian is one who worships Christ over and above everything else..."


Ok.


"Politically, we have not won anything.
Perhaps, if we quit being so concerned about being "politically correct" and fearlessly stood up and told the actual truth, for a change...
We might actually make a difference in the world."

You know...they way we once did.


That's just more empty rhetoric.


"Up until 911, we pretty much were.
Unless you count Pearl Harbor. Which is what got us involved in WW2...which the Allies decisively won, both "militarily" and "politically"."


No, there were plenty of domestic terrorist attacks before 9/11.


"We should have retaliated immediately....bombing Mecca might have been a good idea, for instance."


Whoa! Seriously? You seriously think that an act by a tiny minority of a religion justifies starting a war with everyone of that faith? If so, don't you think that justifies Muslims attacking Christians, given how much we've been mucking around in their parts of the world (mostly for oil)? I mean, you sound like you're not all that different from the Islamic extremists...you both want a holy war.


The fact that our prez does not command the respect of his own people, let alone the rest of the world, is hardly rhetoric.


Since you've offered nothing of substance, it is by definition empty rhetoric.


"My point is that, by putting God out of the classroom"


Who put God out of the classroom? You seem to be under the impression that if Christianity can't be forced on little kids, it is impotent. Do you really think that little of our faith?


"we have guaranteed a generation of kids who are growing up without the love, and the fear of God that we once had.
No one should be terribly surprised that more and more young people have been lost to atheism. We've made it the most attractive alternative of all..."


Looking at some of the absurdity that's coming out of the right-wing of Christianity (some of your post being a prime example), I'm hardly surprised that people are moving away from it.


"Everyone here seems to be pretty happy with the situation. If they were not, don't you suppose we'd have the ACLU breathing down our necks?"


Given the history of violence and threats against people who dare take legal action against Christians in charge, I'd say the lack of complaints is hardly evidence that everyone is happy.


"Oh, we know it can't last forever.
Sooner or later, the world will discover us, tucked away down here in the Bible belt.
Till it does, however, we intend to enjoy real religious freedom, the way our nation's founding fathers actually intended."


Except they apparently forgot to write any of that into the actual Constitution, and accidentally (apparently) set up a non-religious gov't. Oops.

 

[Barrd]

And slavery was legal before the Civil War.

Are you seriously comparing kids praying with slavery? Really?

Of course religious people can get involved in politics....they do all the time. They even run on religiously-inspired platforms, and there's nothing wrong with that either. But that's not the same thing as mandating that the government must adhere to Christianity. Why do you think the founders very clearly wrote that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, rather than the Bible?

No one is saying that the framers of the Constitution ever expected everyone to adhere to Christianity.
However, for Christians, the Bible is the Supreme Law of the entire universe....not just this little country on this tiny bit of rock.
God is much, much, much bigger than the Constitution.

Um....no it wasn't.

Are you counting agnosicism as a religion....or deism as being "not Christian"?
Or....what?

Based on what? The Constitution very deliberately set up a secular government, so where do you get the idea that what they really wanted was a Christian theocracy?

The push was on for a bill of rights in the Constitution. Madison was true to his word — on June 8, 1789, Representative James Madison rose and gave a speech in the House where he introduced a series of articles of amendment. One concerned
religious freedom:
The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed.
Madison's proposal follows the proposals of some of the states. New Hampshire's read:
Congress shall make no laws touching religion, or to infringe the rights of conscience.
Virginia was much more verbose:
That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence, and therefore all men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, and that no particular sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.
New Yorkers had the same to say, but more succinctly:
That the people have an equal, natural, and unalienable right freely and peaceably to exercise their religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that no religious sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.
Aside from New Hampshire's wide-reaching "no touch" proposal, all of these have a few elements in common. First, no national religion should be established, in contrast to several European nations of the time (and to this day) which have an official state church. Second, that no one sect of any religion be favored by the government. Third, that all persons should be free to worship in whatever manner they deemed appropriate for them.
Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Does this final version have the same effect of all the other proposals? Was it the intent that these clauses of the 1st Amendment the same as that of New Hampshire's "no touching" proposal? Probably. Whereas in Europe, the "establishment of religion" did mean a state church, it took on a whole new meaning in America.

No, it was a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Dansbury Baptists.

I stand corrected.
Here is the actual text of that letter:

Mr. President
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

Again, I do not believe there was ever any intention to accommodate any other religion than Christianity, but only to assure all the different denominations of Christianity that they would be left in peace to worship the Christian God as they saw fit.

You state them yourself.

The list I posted are rights, not privileges.

When you have all of those things, while at the same time refuse to grant them to others, that is the very definition of privilege.

Who says we want to refuse to grant religious freedom to others?

Do you think Muslims should have their symbols in government buildings? School kids sing Jewish songs at Jewish Holiday pageants? Mormons giving away the Book of Mormon at school? Mormons being allowed to have multiple wives? Atheists refusing to serve Christians in public businesses?

I don't see any harm in Muslim symbols. Nor would I mind having my Christian children hearing Jewish songs during Jewish holiday pageants...it would be good for them. Why would anyone object to having copies of the BoM being given away at school? If a kid wants a copy, he can get one online, anyhow...that's how I got mine, and my copy of the Koran, as well...both were sent to me free of charge.
Scotus has ruled that gays may marry...and you're worried about Mormons having multiple wives? They are already living with multiple wives anyway...why not let them make it legal?
And if I knew that the owner of some business were an atheist, I'd take my business elsewhere anyhow. I certainly would not try to force a reluctant atheist to wait on me, when there are plenty of Christians who will welcome me with open arms!

The actual wording is "endowed by their creator", which means whatever creator each of us happens to believe in.

Except that the Creator the founding fathers believed in was the Christian God...or at least it was when I went to school.

No, I'm saying you are when you demand special privileges for yourself.

And again, those rights were in place when I got here. My family has a long and proud military history...I have ancestors who fought and died to guarantee to their descendants those rights.

And "worse" includes loss of the special privileges you've enjoyed.

That is only a start. Another generation or so, we will see the same sort of persecution here as is going on in other countries. it's a given.
Long ago, there was a prophecy...and no, it doesn't just pertain to the U.S., but to Christians everywhere.
The Beast will make war with the Saints...and defeat us.
I don't think I will live long enough to see that happen.

But my grandkids might....

The Columbine story is a myth.

I guess it all depends on who you listen to.

Do you believe people of all faiths should have the same privileges as you do in your town?

I believe that the United States is a Christian nation, therefore, Christians ought to have the right of way when it comes to religious rights.

Yes, other religions should enjoy religious freedom in my town...we do have a Muslim family, for instance, who own a rather seedy motel here in town. They are quite free to worship as they please. No one has ever bothered them, as far as I know. On the other hand, we don't see them out and about in town much, either.

Huh? :blink: Both Muslim and Christian students (and all students for that matter) are allowed to pray in school. Just because Christianity doesn't have a specific mandate about timing doesn't mean that isn't fair.

So, if my kid feels as if he must pray before he begins classes, or before he sits down to take a test, he may kneel there at his desk and pray?
Uh....no. My grandson in Arizona tried that...and got into trouble.

Ok.

 

[Barrd]

<the rest of this post, your quotes are in italics...ran out of allowable quotes....goofy forum!>


"Christians are those who obey God.
They do not advocate the killing of unborn children.
They do not champion gay marriage.
The center of their lives....of everything that they do, and everything that they say....is Jesus Christ.
Now, I'm not saying that you are, or are not a Christian.
I am saying that a Christian is one who worships Christ over and above everything else..."

Ok.

That's a pretty non-committal answer.
Let me restate it then:

A Christian is one who loves and obeys Jesus Christ, honoring Him as God.


"Politically, we have not won anything.
Perhaps, if we quit being so concerned about being "politically correct" and fearlessly stood up and told the actual truth, for a change...
We might actually make a difference in the world."

You know...they way we once did.

That's just more empty rhetoric.

I'm sorry....I do not agree.


"Up until 911, we pretty much were.
Unless you count Pearl Harbor. Which is what got us involved in WW2...which the Allies decisively won, both "militarily" and "politically"."

No, there were plenty of domestic terrorist attacks before 9/11.

Are you talking about attacks on Americans by other Americans, like, for instance, the shooting of Abraham Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth?

"We should have retaliated immediately....bombing Mecca might have been a good idea, for instance."

Whoa! Seriously? You seriously think that an act by a tiny minority of a religion justifies starting a war with everyone of that faith? If so, don't you think that justifies Muslims attacking Christians, given how much we've been mucking around in their parts of the world (mostly for oil)? I mean, you sound like you're not all that different from the Islamic extremists...you both want a holy war.

Whether we want a holy war or not, we have one going on.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm


The fact that our prez does not command the respect of his own people, let alone the rest of the world, is hardly rhetoric.

Since you've offered nothing of substance, it is by definition empty rhetoric.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418855/obamas-mideast-morass-conrad-black


"My point is that, by putting God out of the classroom"

Who put God out of the classroom? You seem to be under the impression that if Christianity can't be forced on little kids, it is impotent. Do you really think that little of our faith?

Once again...no one was forcing Christianity on anyone.
Any more than those Muslim kids whose religion requires them to pray facing Mecca five times a day are forcing Allah on anyone.


"we have guaranteed a generation of kids who are growing up without the love, and the fear of God that we once had.
No one should be terribly surprised that more and more young people have been lost to atheism. We've made it the most attractive alternative of all..."

Looking at some of the absurdity that's coming out of the right-wing of Christianity (some of your post being a prime example), I'm hardly surprised that people are moving away from it.

Christians are followers of Jesus Christ.
Some folks thought He was absurd, as well...

Yes, and there were some who walked away when the going got tough.
I wonder how many that were in the crowd screaming "crucify Him" and "His blood be on us and on our children one chilly Friday morning in Jerusalem were also a part of the enthusiastic crowd who had enthusiastically welcomed Him as their Messiah and King less than a week before?

It's sad when someone walks away from their faith. But it is going to happen, more and more.
You may live to see the church as we know it driven underground....or possibly die out altogether.

Don't worry too much about it though.
I've had a peek at the back of the Book.

Jesus Christ and His followers win....



"Everyone here seems to be pretty happy with the situation. If they were not, don't you suppose we'd have the ACLU breathing down our necks?"

Given the history of violence and threats against people who dare take legal action against Christians in charge, I'd say the lack of complaints is hardly evidence that everyone is happy.

You know how we used to say "America...love it or leave it"?

Anyone who is not happy here is free to move. No one is being forced to stay here.


"Oh, we know it can't last forever.
Sooner or later, the world will discover us, tucked away down here in the Bible belt.
Till it does, however, we intend to enjoy real religious freedom, the way our nation's founding fathers actually intended."

Except they apparently forgot to write any of that into the actual Constitution, and accidentally (apparently) set up a non-religious gov't. Oops.

It was a different time.
In trying to be fair to all the different Christian denominations, they went a little too far in the wrong direction.

OOPS, is right!

 

[River Jordan]

Are you seriously comparing kids praying with slavery?

Of course not. You stated that the schools broadcasting Christian prayers over the loudspeakers was legal when you were a kid. I'm not sure what your point is. It was legal then, therefore ____________? So I tried applied the same reasoning to slavery (It was legal then, therefore ____________?) to see if you would complete the thought.

No one is saying that the framers of the Constitution ever expected everyone to adhere to Christianity.
However, for Christians, the Bible is the Supreme Law of the entire universe....not just this little country on this tiny bit of rock.
God is much, much, much bigger than the Constitution.

And Muslims believe the same thing about the Quran. But just as they don't get to go into court and use that as a defense, neither can Christians when it comes to the Bible.

Are you counting agnosicism as a religion....or deism as being "not Christian"?
Or....what?

Do you think someone who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is a Christian?

The push was on for a bill of rights in the Constitution. Madison was true to his word — on June 8, 1789, Representative James Madison rose and gave a speech in the House where he introduced a series of articles of amendment. One concerned
religious freedom:
The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretext, infringed.
Madison's proposal follows the proposals of some of the states. New Hampshire's read:
Congress shall make no laws touching religion, or to infringe the rights of conscience.
Virginia was much more verbose:

That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence, and therefore all men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, and that no particular sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.
New Yorkers had the same to say, but more succinctly:
That the people have an equal, natural, and unalienable right freely and peaceably to exercise their religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that no religious sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.
Aside from New Hampshire's wide-reaching "no touch" proposal, all of these have a few elements in common. First, no national religion should be established, in contrast to several European nations of the time (and to this day) which have an official state church. Second, that no one sect of any religion be favored by the government. Third, that all persons should be free to worship in whatever manner they deemed appropriate for them.
Through the debates in the House, Senate, and conference committees, the wording of all of these proposals was whittled down to the religion clauses of what is our 1st Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
Does this final version have the same effect of all the other proposals? Was it the intent that these clauses of the 1st Amendment the same as that of New Hampshire's "no touching" proposal? Probably. Whereas in Europe, the "establishment of religion" did mean a state church, it took on a whole new meaning in America.

Not sure what your point there is, since it supports everything I've been saying, especially the part about "no one sect of any religion be favored by the government", which as we'll see, is the opposite of what you seem to be arguing.

Again, I do not believe there was ever any intention to accommodate any other religion than Christianity, but only to assure all the different denominations of Christianity that they would be left in peace to worship the Christian God as they saw fit.

And that's directly contradicted by the material you posted above, which clearly states "no one sect of any religion be favored by the government".

Who says we want to refuse to grant religious freedom to others?

Geez....you just said you expect the gov't to favor your religion over others.

I don't see any harm in Muslim symbols. Nor would I mind having my Christian children hearing Jewish songs during Jewish holiday pageants...it would be good for them.

So you have no problem with the school broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer over the loudspeakers, your children performing Jewish songs, etc?

Why would anyone object to having copies of the BoM being given away at school? If a kid wants a copy, he can get one online, anyhow...that's how I got mine, and my copy of the Koran, as well...both were sent to me free of charge.

What about literature from atheists or Satanists?

And if I knew that the owner of some business were an atheist, I'd take my business elsewhere anyhow. I certainly would not try to force a reluctant atheist to wait on me, when there are plenty of Christians who will welcome me with open arms!

What if you lived in a town where there were no non-atheist businesses? Or if the only DMV in the county was run by an atheist who refused to grant licenses to Christians? Just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well"?

I believe that the United States is a Christian nation, therefore, Christians ought to have the right of way when it comes to religious rights.

Which is directly contradicted by the material you posted.

Yes, other religions should enjoy religious freedom in my town...we do have a Muslim family, for instance, who own a rather seedy motel here in town. They are quite free to worship as they please. No one has ever bothered them, as far as I know. On the other hand, we don't see them out and about in town much, either.

So if their kids asked the school to broadcast the Muslim call to prayer over the loudspeaker, you'd be just fine with that?

So, if my kid feels as if he must pray before he begins classes, or before he sits down to take a test, he may kneel there at his desk and pray?
Uh....no. My grandson in Arizona tried that...and got into trouble.

What did he get in trouble for? And what kind of trouble?

 

[River Jordan]

That's a pretty non-committal answer.
Let me restate it then:

A Christian is one who loves and obeys Jesus Christ, honoring Him as God.

Wait....are you calling my faith into question?

Are you talking about attacks on Americans by other Americans, like, for instance, the shooting of Abraham Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

Whether we want a holy war or not, we have one going on.

So in response to 9/11, you would have us kill millions of innocents who had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks, with the express intent of starting a holy war. That's disgusting, and basically makes you no better than your Islamic extremist counterparts who want the same thing.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418855/obamas-mideast-morass-conrad-black

Gee....a right wing magazine is critical of a Democrat president? I'm shocked!!!

Once again...no one was forcing Christianity on anyone.
Any more than those Muslim kids whose religion requires them to pray facing Mecca five times a day are forcing Allah on anyone.

You said the Christian prayers were broadcast over the school's loudspeakers every morning. That's forcing Christianity on the students.

Christians are followers of Jesus Christ.
Some folks thought He was absurd, as well...

Yes, and there were some who walked away when the going got tough.
I wonder how many that were in the crowd screaming "crucify Him" and "His blood be on us and on our children one chilly Friday morning in Jerusalem were also a part of the enthusiastic crowd who had enthusiastically welcomed Him as their Messiah and King less than a week before?

Are you serious? You're comparing young people who leave Christianity with those who crucified Christ? Once again, I find myself disgusted at what you're saying.

You know how we used to say "America...love it or leave it"?

Anyone who is not happy here is free to move. No one is being forced to stay here.

And here I thought you were a decent person. How disappointing.