Catholics: What does it mean to pray to Mary?

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Spiritual Israelite

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@Grailhunter If you don't differentiate between the deity of Jesus and the humanity of Jesus, it just leads to confusion. You think verses that only speak of His humanity prove He is not God, but they do not because they are only referring to His humanity in those verses and not His deity.
 
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Grailhunter

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The biblical testament of the authority of the Father has always been a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church’s doctrine of the Trinity, because hands down, the Old Testament and Christ Himself testified clearly and definitively, of the authority of the Father, over a hundred times, dozens of these coming from Christ Himself. In the Old Testament Yahweh makes it clear that He is singular God. He never functions as a trio, and specially indicates that He is the only one and no one like Him. There are zero suggestions of a Godhead in the Old Testament. Yahweh never suggested that there is a Godhead. There are zero suggestions that Yahweh recognized any other entity but Himself. There are zero suggestions that He recognized any name as a Deity other than Himself. No accounts in Old Testament of Yahweh conversing with Yeshua, no discussion defined between the two. There is One God in the religion of the Jews. You shall have no other Gods before me. There is zero evidence of God having a Son in the Old Testament. If a Jew started praying to another named God they would have been stoned. But things change in the New Testament.

The facts and the bottom line is, Yeshua is the Son of the Almighty God. Yeshua called Yahweh His Father and Yeshua calling Yahweh His God appears three times in the Gospels. Matt. 27:46, Mark 15:34, John 20:17
Yahweh---God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth and mankind. Father and God to Yeshua.
Yeshua---A full-fledged God, The Son of God Almighty, Messiah and Savior
The unnamed God referred to as the Holy Spirit, a full-fledged God. Helper, guide, nurture, teacher, wisdom. Because the Holy Spirit was not named and given the designation of Spirit, people think the Holy Spirit is different in substance than Yahweh and Yeshua....but no scripture suggests that.

So that is it, truth for you. While those that believe in the one God formula cling to a couple scriptures, I have provided hundreds that the Trinity is made up of three Gods, unique and distinct and united in purpose. The worst way to understand the New Testament is to take a couple unexplained incongruent scriptures and make a religious belief out of it when they do not agree with the whole New Testament.

On the other hand, these biblical proofs of the authority of God the Father in no way conflict with beliefs regarding the Trinity. In the Old Testament it is easy to see that Yahweh proclaims Himself as the ultimate authority and does not define Himself as a trio. In the New Testament after Yahweh begets a Son, His Son repeatedly attests to the authority of the Father. A numerical count of the three Gods occur as the Gospels progress, but descriptions or discussions regarding the trio of Gods does not occur until after Christ ascends to Heaven, and rightly so, the trio did not form until He ascended to Heaven. At which time, God the Father still holds the positional authority as God Almighty. In relation to each other the Bible assigns them positional seniority as we would understand the relationship of Father and Son....more or less the chain of command...But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and head of woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1st Corinthians 11:3

Then from our perspective they have equal authority over us. Then in relation to the salvation of humanity, Christ has all authority. To put this in simple terms it would be like delegating authority to complete a task, but Yahweh is still chairman of the board in Heaven. The Truth makes sense. The Shield of the Trinity is still compatible as a representation of the Godhead, in that God in center represents that spiritual unity, while there is a God called Yahweh, a God called Yeshua, and a God called the Holy Spirit. And at the same time the representation makes it clear the Yahweh is not Yeshua and neither are the Holy Spirit. Three individual Gods that are in accord. But still I see people scratching their heads over it…

I challenge anybody to produce an article near this size with even a tenth of the number of New Testament scriptural references to support their belief that the Trinity is one God, one person.

On the other hand when you have had the one God formula for the Trinity pounded in your head…..how much is it your fault? I do not think it is a qualification for salvation, it just drastically prevent what went on in the New Testament.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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This forum is not a place to just copy and paste the contents of books in. Good grief. Just post a link to a site where people can read your book if they want. No one is going to read it here.
 
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shepherdsword

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25. In John 5:7 Christ says, “And the Father who sent Me, He has borne witness of Me. And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. You have neither heard His voice at anytime, nor seen His form.” In this verse one should understand that it takes someone else to bare witness of another, and the voice and form they were hearing and seeing then, was not that of God the Father. He was not baring witness of Himself.

26. In Matthew 18:10, where Christ was warning not to offend the “little ones”....Christ indicates that their Angels constantly behold the face of Yahweh...in Heaven. Now surely, there is an understanding of the concept of omni-presence, but if you notice, Christ is not saying, they behold My face, or Our faces everywhere. Throughout the storyline of the Gospel, Christ makes it clear that He and His Father are in two different places. Christ’s overall mission on Earth is to fulfill the will of God which is Yahweh....and He makes it clear that Yahweh, His Father sent Him. Yeshua never said in the Gospels that He sent Himself or came on His own behalf, or was doing His own will, or begot Himself. Over 40 times Christ says in the Gospels that His Father sent Him. This denotes the higher authority of the Father and that His Father is another person at a different place.

In several verses Christ indicates that God the Father gives or appoints certain things to Him. To appoint or give is an indication of hierarchy, authority, and an indication of two positions, given and received. You will not find a scripture where Christ says He sent the Father somewhere, or that the Father was doing His will, or He gave authority to the Father, it is not His position to do any of that. Other examples, Christ would not say, I gave Myself, all things, nor would He say that He loved Himself.

27. In John 10:17, Christ says, “For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.” The same is true of honor or glory.

28. Honor is a heartfelt expression from one person to another. Christ does not honor Himself or love Himself. John 8:54, “If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that He is your God. All three of these expressions describe something happening from one...to... another.

29. Apostolic Perspective. There is a continual reference to Father and Son and a designation of Yahweh as God the Father in Heaven while Christ was on earth. And if you look closely the scriptures give distinctions to God as the Father and Christ as Lord in the same sentence. As in the benediction of some of books in the NT...2nd Corinthians, Ephesians, and Philippians.

30. 1st Timothy 6:13
“I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate.”

Matthew 5:16
Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 5:48
Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 6:1
Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 7:11
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matthew 10:32
Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.

Matthew 16:17
And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:10
See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 18:14
So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Matthew 18:19
Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 23:9
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

Luke 2:49
And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father’s house?” (Note again: His Father’s house, not His house, not Our house.)

continued.....
Do you really expect anyone to read your spam flood posts? TL;DR
 

shepherdsword

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Like I said not that simple.
By the time the New Testament gets through with God the Father He is janitor with a broom in Heaven.
Yahweh is the Creator God.
Answer the question and stop deflecting.....do you believe all things were created by Jesus as the scriptures teach?
 

PS95

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I gave you just a few scriptures that showed in the storyline that God the Father and God the Son were working together during Christ’s ministry. Separate in many ways and I am teaching you along the way.
So what? lol YHWH spoke to Yeshua and visa versa OF COURSE! Something is twisting you up that you aren't quite expressing to me. this is not a problem at all .

I read it but it does not say anything about Yeshua
what? GH, who is the WORD? The word "who became flesh" as John wrote..?
 

Behold

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The only queen of heaven mentioned in the bible was the idolatrous god of babylonian origins. Please cite a reference where Jesus said Mary is our spiritual mother?

Im not a "cult of Mary" member.

So, my post that you read, is not me supporting this cult.
But rather, i posted info from Catholic.org......so that there is no way for a "cult of mary " member to deny it, and be honest.


Maybe because the bible doesn't tell us to have Mary and the saints pray for us.

Exactly.

In Fact, the NT has nothing to say, that supports "the cult of Mary's" theology - doctrine- nonsense, regarding how they bend the knee to "the mother of Jesus".

So, what Catholics are taught about Mary being so very important, is literally man made nonsense... Religious fiction.


The bible doesn't say those holy men and women bring our prayers to Jesus.

Correct.

Mary is not and intercessor.

Mary was a sinner, in need of Salvation just like any other Human being.

The NT says that Mary is "blessed among women" but it does not state that she is blessed above them, as the "cult of Mary" would have you believe.
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Mary.jpg
 

PS95

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Im not a "cult of Mary" member.

So, my post that you read, is not me supporting this cult.
But rather, i posted info from Catholic.org......so that there is no way for a "cult of mary " member to deny it, and be honest.




Exactly.

In Fact, the NT has nothing to say, that supports "the cult of Mary's" theology - doctrine- nonsense, regarding how they bend the knee to "the mother of Jesus".

So, what Catholics are taught about Mary being so very important, is literally man made nonsense... Religious fiction.




Correct.



Mary was a sinner, in need of Salvation just like any other Human being.

The NT says that Mary is "blessed among women" but it does not state that she is blessed above them, as the "cult of Mary" would have you believe.
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View attachment 62125
where the heck is that pic taken? creepy. Mary would not approve at all. That is awful!