What if your definition of "Good" differs from God's?

[Rach1370]

I want to know what people's definitions of perfect and good are, and how it relates to what they feel God defines as perfect, and I want to see people truly evaluate, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, why they believe what they do...

Well...I'd have to say this...Adam and Eve were able to be in the presence of God. We know from Paul's writings that they would have had to be incorruptible...sin free, to be able to do that. I think it all comes back to God's holiness...Adam and Eve would have had to fit His definition of 'perfect' to spend time with Him. It's a little hard to think of such a state when we come from a fallen one, but I think that's the crux of the matter....they would have had to be perfect.

If He knows all, then He knows we were to fall... If He didn't want that, then He would have taken step to prevent it...
UNLESS, That is what He wanted all along...

Of course He knew we would fall. That's not really the question to ponder at, I believe. The real question is...why did He allow it...and if He was going to allow it, why did He bother making us perfect first?

I think the answer is fairly simple and wonderfully glorious! He created them perfect in the beginning because man needed to know what a perfect union with God looked like. Adam and Eve live in "shalom", as the Hebrews called it....a perfect state of peace, happiness, goodness and, of course, direct relationship with God.
So, if they had that, and it was all 'good' and perfect, why did God let them fall...let the world go through millennia of suffering and evil? Simply....for His glory. God is after the praise of his glory...and while that may sound a tad egotistical to us humans...for a holy and perfect God, it is just and right. The redemptive story is one that emphasises his grace and glory. Consider: mankind had everything...given to him. He falls, destroying all hope of achieving that peace and perfection again. But he is forgiven and given hope. Again and again throughout the OT we see mankind messing up and God reaching out in mercy and love. And then the ultimate giving from God....his son. Who dies for us and takes the very punishment we deserve. Such a marvellous sacrifice and trade...but that was not the end. Not just taking the punishment for us, his sacrifice made it possible for us to again have an intimate relationship with God. People who are saved receive the Holy Spirit and have the assurance of gaining shalom again once they die. It's the perfect story! It's what makes us sing and praise his name...giving Him all and total glory!!!
Consider Ephesians:


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:3-12 ESV)

I see this text saying three things:
1- we have been given to and given to by our God....truly he blesses us.
2- God knew and planned for all this before 'the foundation of the earth'...so yeah, He knew all beforehand, and
3- This plan of his...where he blesses us and predestines us...it's all for his glory.

 

[Eltanin]

Growth ? that is the lie the devil first told Eve,as Genesis tells us "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,that your eyes shall be opened(growth) and ye shall be as Gods ( a lie straight from Hell) knowing good and evil....sin is not growth....Jesus did no sin,did he need growth? did he instruct people to sin to grow ?,or did he warn people to avoid sin...as much as from within as without.....please point out any scripture that suggest sin and wickedness produces anything good and that God is ever pleased with it.

All effective lies have a grain of genuine truth...

There is nothing good unless God declares it is so. Judging from ourselves is not "good".

Yet so many Christians would judge for themselves what is bad, based on their own interpretation of what they read... So many use the same verses to argue opposite sides of an issue... What about those who know they are right... what if they are wrong?

I can't believe we are meerly chess pieces in some great cosmic game... although I do understand what you are saying... I think that explanation devalues the importance of free will, and I think it contributes to the "blame it on the devil" mindset that so many Christians have... Something I think is a bad trend in Christianity..

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Look it up yourself and learn something . The angels look longingly and with great interest in what we humans do (or don't do)

1 Corinthians 4:[sup]9 [/sup]For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men.

1 Corinthians 11:[sup]9 [/sup]neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. [sup]10 [/sup]For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

Hebrews 1:[sup]14 [/sup]Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

[sup]1 Corinthians 6: 3 [/sup]Do you not know that we will judge angels?

 

[jerzy]

Well...I'd have to say this...Adam and Eve were able to be in the presence of God. We know from Paul's writings that they would have had to be incorruptible...sin free, to be able to do that. I think it all comes back to God's holiness...Adam and Eve would have had to fit His definition of 'perfect' to spend time with Him. It's a little hard to think of such a state when we come from a fallen one, but I think that's the crux of the matter....they would have had to be perfect.



Of course He knew we would fall. That's not really the question to ponder at, I believe. The real question is...why did He allow it...and if He was going to allow it, why did He bother making us perfect first?

I think the answer is fairly simple and wonderfully glorious! He created them perfect in the beginning because man needed to know what a perfect union with God looked like. Adam and Eve live in "shalom", as the Hebrews called it....a perfect state of peace, happiness, goodness and, of course, direct relationship with God.
So, if they had that, and it was all 'good' and perfect, why did God let them fall...let the world go through millennia of suffering and evil? Simply....for His glory. God is after the praise of his glory...and while that may sound a tad egotistical to us humans...for a holy and perfect God, it is just and right. The redemptive story is one that emphasises his grace and glory. Consider: mankind had everything...given to him. He falls, destroying all hope of achieving that peace and perfection again. But he is forgiven and given hope. Again and again throughout the OT we see mankind messing up and God reaching out in mercy and love. And then the ultimate giving from God....his son. Who dies for us and takes the very punishment we deserve. Such a marvellous sacrifice and trade...but that was not the end. Not just taking the punishment for us, his sacrifice made it possible for us to again have an intimate relationship with God. People who are saved receive the Holy Spirit and have the assurance of gaining shalom again once they die. It's the perfect story! It's what makes us sing and praise his name...giving Him all and total glory!!!
Consider Ephesians:


Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:3-12 ESV)

I see this text saying three things:
1- we have been given to and given to by our God....truly he blesses us.
2- God knew and planned for all this before 'the foundation of the earth'...so yeah, He knew all beforehand, and
3- This plan of his...where he blesses us and predestines us...it's all for his glory.

I like this post, thanks Rach.