What Is A Birth From Above?

[Webers_Home]

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†. John 3:3 . . I assure you: no one can see the kingdom of God without
being born from above.

†. John 3:4 . . Nicodemus said to him: How can a person once grown old be
born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother's womb and be born
again, can he?

†. John 3:5 . . I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without
being born of water and Spirit.

†. John 3:6 . .What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
Do not be amazed that I told you: You must be born from above.

†. John 3:8 . .The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it
makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes-- so it is
with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

†. John 3:9 . . Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can this happen?

†. John 3:10 . . Jesus answered and said to him: You are the teacher of
Israel and you do not understand this?

01) Is it supernatural?

02) Is it a ritual?

03) Is it a rite of passage?

04) Is it a spiritual awakening?

05) Is it joining a church?

06) Is it baptism performed by clergy in the name of the Father, Son, and
Holy Ghost?

07) Why should people not be surprised that a birth from above is a must?

08) If a must, rather than an option; then why wasn't I told about a birth
from above while in catechism for First Holy Communion and Confirmation?

09) Are people born from above invisible like thin air?

10) Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it?

Cliff
/

 

[JLB]

.
†. John 3:3 . . I assure you: no one can see the kingdom of God without
being born from above.

†. John 3:4 . . Nicodemus said to him: How can a person once grown old be
born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother's womb and be born
again, can he?

†. John 3:5 . . I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without
being born of water and Spirit.

†. John 3:6 . .What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
Do not be amazed that I told you: You must be born from above.

†. John 3:8 . .The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it
makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes-- so it is
with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

†. John 3:9 . . Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can this happen?

†. John 3:10 . . Jesus answered and said to him: You are the teacher of
Israel and you do not understand this?

01) Is it supernatural?

02) Is it a ritual?

03) Is it a rite of passage?

04) Is it a spiritual awakening?

05) Is it joining a church?

06) Is it baptism performed by clergy in the name of the Father, Son, and
Holy Ghost?

07) Why should people not be surprised that a birth from above is a must?

08) If a must, rather than an option; then why wasn't I told about a birth
from above while in catechism for First Holy Communion and Confirmation?

09) Are people born from above invisible like thin air?

10) Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it?

Cliff
/

I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without
being born of water and Spirit.

Do you understand this phrase?


Thanks, JLB

 

[Webers_Home]

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I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of
water and Spirit. - - - Do you understand this phrase?

I appreciate your input; but if we start adding questions to the list too soon,
I'm afraid we may never get any answers to the original ten.

Cliff
/

 

[veteran]

01) Is it supernatural? - Being born of The Spirit is. Being born of 'water' is about being born in the water of woman's womb, not ritual water baptism. Christ was comparing flesh vs. spirit in John 3, not John's baptism vs. being born of The Spirit.

02) Is it a ritual? - Yes and no. Some receive The Holy Spirit with water baptism, others like in Acts 19 didn't receive The Holy Spirit anointing until Paul preached Christ crucified and risen, and then by laying hands on them. Still others received baptism of The Holy Spirit prior to any water baptism (Acts 10).

03) Is it a rite of passage? - Water baptism? No, since Christ told the malefactor crucified with Him that he would be with Him in Paradise that day. We are still to get baptized of water though. But our spirit must be baptized of The Holy Spirit to enter God's Kingdom.

04) Is it a spiritual awakening? - Yes, most definitely. Can't truly understand God's Word without it.

05) Is it joining a church? - No, but attending a Church can help lead... one into The Faith and becoming born of The Spirit. Christ defined church (gathering) as two or more gathered together in His Name, as He said He would be there amongst them.

06) Is it baptism performed by clergy in the name of the Father, Son, and
Holy Ghost? - Yes and no, for the same reasons above per Acts. It's between the believer and our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus Christ. No man can come in between.

07) Why should people not be surprised that a birth from above is a must? - not really a valid question per the subject of John 3. Either one believes, or they don't. Simple as that.

08) If a must, rather than an option; then why wasn't I told about a birth
from above while in catechism for First Holy Communion and Confirmation? - don't know about all the 'catechism' of the Roman Church. Baptism by The Holy Spirit isn't dependent upon some Church denomination's supposed authority anyway.

09) Are people born from above invisible like thin air? - being born of The Spirit is an 'inward' operation to one's spirit inside their flesh body. If you don't understand how God created us per Eccl.12:5-7, 2 Cor.5, and 1 Cor.15, then the default understanding will be like Nicodemus who struggled with what Jesus taught in John 3.

10) Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it? - because of Jewish traditions brought in by the "crept in unawares". Jewish tradition teaches that God created us as 'flesh' only. Even with the idea of 'soul' they treat as dependent upon a flesh body.

 

[aspen]

The idea that is interesting to me about being born again is 'is it a one time event'? Seems to me that we are born again in Christ every time we repent and pick up our cross and follow Him.

 

[Episkopos]

.
†. John 3:3 . . I assure you: no one can see the kingdom of God without
being born from above.

†. John 3:4 . . Nicodemus said to him: How can a person once grown old be
born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother's womb and be born
again, can he?

†. John 3:5 . . I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without
being born of water and Spirit.

†. John 3:6 . .What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
Do not be amazed that I told you: You must be born from above.

†. John 3:8 . .The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it
makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes-- so it is
with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

†. John 3:9 . . Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can this happen?

†. John 3:10 . . Jesus answered and said to him: You are the teacher of
Israel and you do not understand this?

01) Is it supernatural?

02) Is it a ritual?

03) Is it a rite of passage?

04) Is it a spiritual awakening?

05) Is it joining a church?

06) Is it baptism performed by clergy in the name of the Father, Son, and
Holy Ghost?

07) Why should people not be surprised that a birth from above is a must?

08) If a must, rather than an option; then why wasn't I told about a birth
from above while in catechism for First Holy Communion and Confirmation?

09) Are people born from above invisible like thin air?

10) Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it?

Cliff
/

A close encounter of the third kind...with God! :)

The idea that is interesting to me about being born again is 'is it a one time event'? Seems to me that we are born again in Christ every time we repent and pick up our cross and follow Him.

You are using the idea metaphorically rather than experientially. Is Mozart raised from the dead every time his music is played? Is that the essence of the biblical message?

Being born from above means that Christ has regenerated your spirit so that you can SEE in the Spirit. It means there is now a supernatural element to your life.

 

[Webers_Home]

Re: John 3:5 . . Jesus replied: the truth is; no one can enter the kingdom of
God without being born of water and the Spirit.

1) What is the water?

2) If people are born of water and the Spirit when they undergo a birth from
above; then of what were they born to begin with?

3) Do the words "no one" include Christ?

Cliff
/

 

[Mungo]

Re: John 3:5 . . Jesus replied: the truth is; no one can enter the kingdom of
God without being born of water and the Spirit.

1) What is the water?

2) If people are born of water and the Spirit when they undergo a birth from
above; then of what were they born to begin with?

3) Do the words "no one" include Christ?

Cliff
/

1. The water is simply water - H2O

2. natural birth

3. Jesus was already in the kingdom.


Your OP question 10 “Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it?”

A better question (i.e.. one I can answer :) ) is “Why should he have got it?”

 

[Webers_Home]

John 3:5 . . Jesus replied: the truth is; no one can enter the kingdom of God
without being born of water and the Spirit.

1) What is the water?

It's supernatural-- and it's for drinking.

†. John 4:10 . . Jesus answered and said to her: If you knew the gift of God,
and who is saying to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him and
he would have given you living water.

†. John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say come! Let the hearer say come!
Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the
gift of life-giving water.


2) If people are born of water and the Spirit when they undergo a
birth from above; then of what were they born to begin with?

The earth.

†. Gen 2:7 . .The Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground and
blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being.


3) Do the words "no one" include Christ?

Do the math-- Christ was fully human: a man of flesh, bone, and blood.

†. Luke 24:39 . . Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me
and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.

†. 1 John 4:2-3 . . By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that
confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit
that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming,
and is now already in the world.

†. 1Cor 15:50 . .This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God

Cliff
/

 

[veteran]

Did Christ have need to 'born again', or to be baptized of water? Nope.

Again, the subject of "water" in John 3 is about being born from above ("again" = above per the Greek) through water of woman's womb, since Jesus is contrasting flesh vs. spirit. God's children are born from above by the spirit He put in us in the womb, which returns back to Him at flesh death, like the Eccl.12:5-7 Scripture states. Per Matt.10:28 we know that return involves our soul attached to our spirit going back to God at flesh death. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit, like Jesus said.

 

[Mungo]

1) What is the water?

It's supernatural-- and it's for drinking.

†. John 4:10 . . Jesus answered and said to her: If you knew the gift of God,
and who is saying to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him and
he would have given you living water.

†. John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say come! Let the hearer say come!
Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the
gift of life-giving water.

Cliff
/

Living water is a metaphor for the Holy Spirit.

That doesn’t mean you can just change water elsewhere in the scriptures to mean the Holy Spirit.

John 3:5 doesn’t say “living water”. It’s just plain water.

Also it says water and Spirit – two different things

Again, the subject of "water" in John 3 is about being born from above ("again" = above per the Greek) through water of woman's womb, since Jesus is contrasting flesh vs. spirit. God's children are born from above by the spirit He put in us in the womb, which returns back to Him at flesh death, like the Eccl.12:5-7 Scripture states. Per Matt.10:28 we know that return involves our soul attached to our spirit going back to God at flesh death. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit, like Jesus said.

The water in Jophn 3:5 is not amniotic fluid.

Nowhere in scripture does it equate water with amniotic fluid.

The water in John 3:5 is just plain water.

John 2 – Jesus changes water (ordinary water) into wine.

John 3:22 onwards – Jesus and his disciples are baptising in plain ordinary water.

In between Jesus refers to water and Spirit.

The whole context is plain ordinary water.

 

[Webers_Home]

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1) What is the water? Answer: It's supernatural-- and it's for drinking.

Supposing that just perchance somebody on the outside is looking in on this
discussion and would sincerely like to know how to go about imbibing that
water? Well; it's actually pretty simple.

†. John 3:14-15 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whoever believes in him may
have eternal life.

Since that statement is within a stone's throw of the Lord's thoughts
regarding births from above, then they're no doubt intended to correlate.
Here's the back story:

Yhvh's people at Num 21:5-9 became weary of eating manna all the time at
every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their
Lord and Master for a different diet, they became hostile and confrontational,
angrily demanding better food. As retribution for their insolence; the Lord
sent a swarm of poisonous vipers among them; which began biting and
killing people-- and every bite was 100% fatal, no exceptions.

Once people started dropping dead from snakebite; the rest woke up and
realized their mistake and asked Moses to intercede. In reply; the Lord
instructed Moses to fashion an effigy of the vipers and hoist it up on a pole
in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could look to the effigy for
a miraculous recovery. The only act of faith the snakebite victims had to
perform was just "look to" the serpent's effigy and they would be cured.

Neither love, nor synagogue, nor church attendance, nor charity, nor fasting,
nor commandments, nor sacrifices, nor Torah study, nor self denial, nor
confession, nor tithing, nor morality, nor sacraments, nor piety, not the
golden rule, not rosaries, not scapulars, nor anything else one might
associate with salvation would work to counter the venom; not even their
own personal religious affiliation-- whether Jew or Gentile was irrelevant to
their situation. They couldn't even pray; no, the only prescription God set up
for them was the effigy. It was their one and only God-given option; and the
God-given default was certain death: no exceptions. In other words; they
were dead men walking-- with no possibility of commutation to a lesser
punishment.

Transferring that thought to the Lord's crucifixion makes it readily apparent
just how serious things really are for mankind. In other words: hell is
everybody's default destiny-- no exceptions: from the Pope in Rome, to the
Al Qaida terrorists, and everybody in between or otherwise a birth from
above wouldn't be a must nor would Christ have died for the whole world
rather than just part of the world.

Anyway, returning to the water: what it boils down to is eternal life.

†. John 3:16-18 . . For God so loved the world that He donated His one and
only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
For God didn't send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to
rescue the world through him.

In other words: the Lord's crucifixion works to rescue people from the wrath
of God and keep them alive, just as that serpentary effigy worked to rescue
people from deadly venom and keep them alive; only the Lord's crucifixion is
better because the life that keeps its beneficiaries alive isn't human life: it's
eternal life; which is a kind of life that's impervious to death.

So; how is the life obtained? Well; when people believe the Lord's crucifixion works
like I say it does; then all they have to do is just step up and ask him for it.

†. John 4:10 . . Jesus answered and said to her: If you knew the gift of God,
and who is saying to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him and
he would have given you living water.

†. John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say come! Let the hearer say come!
Let the one who thirsts come forward-- and anyone who wants it --to receive
the gift of life-giving water.

Piece of cake.

Cliff
/

 

[0bed]

Think of it this way. Physically we are born of our mother and Father. Spiritually when we open our hearts to the Lord we are born of the Spirit and this is what it means to be born again, born of the Spirit or born from above. :)

 

[veteran]

Think of it this way. Physically we are born of our mother and Father. Spiritually when we open our hearts to the Lord we are born of the Spirit and this is what it means to be born again, born of the Spirit or born from above. :)

Yep. That's pretty much the main gist of it.

But did you realize that new birth is a real literal 'change' to our spirit with soul that's inside our flesh?

The unjust are going to be raised too, but the condition of their spirit with soul is that it will not have put on immortality through Christ Jesus, and will still be liable to perish in the lake of fire (second death).

 

[0bed]

Yep. That's pretty much the main gist of it.

But did you realize that new birth is a real literal 'change' to our spirit with soul that's inside our flesh?

The unjust are going to be raised too, but the condition of their spirit with soul is that it will not have put on immortality through Christ Jesus, and will still be liable to perish in the lake of fire (second death).

That is right, we become a new creation in Christ and we have all seen where people have been compleatly changed. Praise God.

I'm not sure if unbelievers are born again, I very much doubt it, which means when we all appear before the judgement seat the Lord will say to the goats "I never knew you."

 

[veteran]

That is right, we become a new creation in Christ and we have all seen where people have been compleatly changed. Praise God.

I'm not sure if unbelievers are born again, I very much doubt it, which means when we all appear before the judgement seat the Lord will say to the goats "I never knew you."

Right, the spirit and souls of the unbelieving will remain... spiritually dead throughout Christ's future Millennium reign. But they will be changed and resurrected at Christ's return too (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15; Isaiah 25; Matt.25; Rev.22:14-15).

 

[0bed]

Right, the spirit and souls of the unbelieving will remain... spiritually dead throughout Christ's future Millennium reign. But they will be changed and resurrected at Christ's return too (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15; Isaiah 25; Matt.25; Rev.22:14-15).

True, all will be resurected and will stand befor the throne of judgement, but the change in our hearts and lives comes about when we accept Christ into our life here on earth.

There will be a change at the ressurection, granted, but regarding our salvation or not as the case may be, that remains the same.

 

[veteran]

True, all will be resurected and will stand befor the throne of judgement, but the change in our hearts and lives comes about when we accept Christ into our life here on earth.

There will be a change at the ressurection, granted, but regarding our salvation or not as the case may be, that remains the same.

It's important to realize that those of the "resurrection of damnation" will be raised also AT Christ's coming, as Jesus revealed in John 5:28-29. That's at the BEGINNING of Christ's thousand years reign of Rev.20. The idea that the Rev.20:5 "dead" are still in graves throughout the "thousand years" is a misunderstanding about that future time and its events.

 

[0bed]

It's important to realize that those of the "resurrection of damnation" will be raised also AT Christ's coming, as Jesus revealed in John 5:28-29. That's at the BEGINNING of Christ's thousand years reign of Rev.20. The idea that the Rev.20:5 "dead" are still in graves throughout the "thousand years" is a misunderstanding about that future time and its events.

My understanding is that Revelation 20:5 is about the first ressurection (it says so) and in my opinion it complements John 5:28-29 by adding the detail that the wicked will not be raised until the end of Christs' peaceful 1000 year reign on earth. This indicates two resurections.

The fact that John 5:29 speaks of "those who have done good things" and "those who have done wicked things" indicates that Jesus has already made judgement and John 5:22 tells us Jesus is the judge both in the first ressurection and the second ressurection which are seperated by Christs 1000 year reign on earth so that peace may prevail.

The ASV and probably elsewhere including my Thompsons Chain Referance Bible has the sub-heading the "Two Resurrections."

Two Resurrections
25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is [f]the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[Webers_Home]

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will
hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Some people construe "now is" to indicate the saints who came up out of
their graves at Mtt 27:50-53. But that won't work because where are those
saints today? They're all gone; and there's no record of them having
ascended to heaven with Christ when he departed. The resurrection about
which the Lord spoke at John 5:25 is unto life; not death, so those saints
were merely resuscitated rather than truly resurrected.

It is my own personal conviction that "now is" refers to the Lord's statement
that precedes John 5:25.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

Cliff
/