What is Revival?

[Johann]

I know I wasn't asked the question, but my answer would be Yes! In the inner man, because our inner man has been renewed/recreated after the image of Christ and that is how we received the gift of God's righteousness. Like where Paul said I delight in the Law of God after the inward man..

I've got to go for the day, but yes, I want to hear your thoughts on this.

I have an idea about this, that God in recreating us as made us to be righteous in the inner man, and we are working that out in our lives. And He's made us holy, which in this particular word/verse means that we've been purposed to serve others as a gift from God.

And I'm looking to either verify that, or learn what it really means.

Much love!

I think Calvin summoned it up correctly--

And that ye put on the new man. All that is meant is, “Be renewed in the spirit, or, be renewed within or completely, — beginning with the mind, which appears to be the part most free from all taint of sin.” What is added about the creation, may refer either to the first creation of man, or to the second creation, which is effected by the grace of Christ. Both expositions will be true. Adam was at first created after the image of God, and reflected, as in a mirror, the Divine righteousness; but that image, having been defaced by sin, must now be restored in Christ. The regeneration of the godly is indeed — as we have formerly explained (149) — nothing else than the formation anew of the image of God in them. There is, no doubt, a far more rich and powerful manifestation of Divine grace in this second creation than in the first; but our highest perfection is uniformly represented in Scripture as consisting in our conformity and resemblance to God. Adam lost the image which he had originally received, and therefore it becomes necessary that it shall be restored to us by Christ. The design contemplated by regeneration is to recall us from our wanderings to that end for which we were created.


In righteousness. If righteousness be taken as a general term for uprightness, holiness will be something higher, or that purity which lies in being devoted to the service of God. I am rather inclined to consider holiness as referring to the first table, and righteousness to the second table, of the law, as in the song of Zacharias,
“That we may serve him in holiness and righteousness, all the days of our life.” (Luk_1:74.)

Plato lays down the distinction correctly, that holiness (ὁσιότης) lies in the worship of God, and that the other part,righteousness, (δικαιοσύνη,) bears a reference to men. The genitive, of truth, (τὢς αληθείας,) is put in the place of an adjective, and refers to both terms; so that, while it literally runs, in righteousness and holiness of truth, the meaning is, in true righteousness and holiness. He warns us that both ought to be sincere; because we have to do with God, whom it is impossible to deceive.

1. Holiness, our worshipping God
2. Righteousness--service to men

hosiotēs
Total KJV Occurrences: 2
holiness, 2
Luk_1:75, Eph_4:24
Luk 1:73 the oath that he swore to our ancestor Abraham. He granted us
Luk 1:74 deliverance from our enemies' grip so that we could serve him without fear
Luk 1:75 and be holy and righteous before him all of our days.

(77) “Le mot de Sainctete comprend tout ce dont nous sommes redevables a Dieu pour adorer et honorer sa majeste.” — “The word Holiness includes all that we owe to God for adoring and honoring his majesty.”

God forbid I should tamper with His word--but this is how I understand righteousness and holiness @marks

 

[Johann]

Something else, I'm interested in your thoughts on this word. As I've studied this word, I'm still not sure I understand it.

In some ways, it seems to be the state of being, but then I've also thought that it refers to God's intent for our separation, like this is holiness for the purpose of serving others.

What can you tell me about this?

Much love!

See post#181

 

[Johann]

I've added an edit to clarify. I'm still learning, and hope to learn from you. I've studied this particular verse a long time, and I'm still not fully satisfied.

Praise God for your humbleness--I am also still learning and in NO way consider myself a scholar, but you have a head start and communing with the saints and a wonderful Pastor--something I can only dream of--see post #181

 

[Johann]

I know I wasn't asked the question, but my answer would be Yes! In the inner man, because our inner man has been renewed/recreated after the image of Christ and that is how we received the gift of God's righteousness. Like where Paul said I delight in the Law of God after the inward man..

I would gently disagree with you here @Lizbeth and see my post #181--and your thoughts. If we are AS holy and AS righteous as Christ is, inherently--we don't need sanctification and the Holy Spirit.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

After God (kata theon). After the pattern God, the new birth, the new life in Christ, destined to be like God in the end (Rom_8:29).
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.--if you read slowly, sanctification is not mentioned here

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Isa 52:1 Awake, awake, Sion; put on thy strength, O Sion; and o thou put on thy glory, Jerusalem the holy city: there shall no more pass through thee, the uncircumcised and unclean.

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

--if we are AS holy and righteous as Christ is--in the inner man--why the need for further clothing--the putting on and putting off?

put: Eph_6:11; Job_29:14; Isa_52:1, Isa_59:17; Rom_13:12, Rom_13:14; 1Co_15:53; Gal_3:27; Col_3:10-14
new: Eph_2:15; Rom_6:4; 2Co_4:16, 2Co_5:17; 1Pe_2:2
after: Gen_1:26-27; 2Co_3:18; Col_3:10; 1Jn_3:2
created: Eph_2:10; Gal_6:15
righteousness: Psa_45:6-7; Rom_8:29; Tit_2:14; Heb_1:8, Heb_12:14; 1Jn_3:3
true holiness: or, holiness of truth, Joh_17:17

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[Lizbeth]

I would gently disagree with you here @Lizbeth and see my post #181--and your thoughts. If we are AS holy and AS righteous as Christ is, inherently--we don't need sanctification and the Holy Spirit.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

After God (kata theon). After the pattern God, the new birth, the new life in Christ, destined to be like God in the end (Rom_8:29).
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.--if you read slowly, sanctification is not mentioned here

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Isa 52:1 Awake, awake, Sion; put on thy strength, O Sion; and o thou put on thy glory, Jerusalem the holy city: there shall no more pass through thee, the uncircumcised and unclean.

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

--if we are AS holy and righteous as Christ is--in the inner man--why the need for further clothing--the putting on and putting off?

put: Eph_6:11; Job_29:14; Isa_52:1, Isa_59:17; Rom_13:12, Rom_13:14; 1Co_15:53; Gal_3:27; Col_3:10-14
new: Eph_2:15; Rom_6:4; 2Co_4:16, 2Co_5:17; 1Pe_2:2
after: Gen_1:26-27; 2Co_3:18; Col_3:10; 1Jn_3:2
created: Eph_2:10; Gal_6:15
righteousness: Psa_45:6-7; Rom_8:29; Tit_2:14; Heb_1:8, Heb_12:14; 1Jn_3:3
true holiness: or, holiness of truth, Joh_17:17

I'm not able to follow the grammar very well at the moment, but have to go to other scriptures that also speak on this subject.

2 Peter 1:4....we are partakers/sharers of the divine nature

Heb 12:10...we are partakers of his holiness

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God...unto all and upon all them that believe

1 John 3:9 God's seed remains in him...he cannot sin because he has been born of God, ie, born of his seed. (And that seed is perfect and holy, because it is Christ.)

This is not speaking of our flesh and the natural man, or our old man, but only speaking of the new man which is created in God's image. We still have this sack of flesh to cart around which is hobbling us, in varying ways and degrees, until Christ returns. However, we can and do overcome it through the Spirit.....which is within us, and also upon us in varying degrees at different times. Our job is to "submit to the righteousness of God" within and upon us. His righteousness, His holiness, and His seed can't be said to be imperfect, I'm sure we must agree on that. There's no deficiency in the gift we've been given, but the problem is with us - in whatever degree we're allowing our flesh and carnal mind (old man) to get in the way. We may often be overriding the will of Christ in us with our own as yet unsurrendered will, or maybe it is only partially surrendered in the beginning at least. We all receive varying measures of grace/power and faith in the beginning, that is another factor. Some more, some less, different gifts to different ones. Flesh/old man overcome in some ways but not all. Then we must go on to increase and grow in whatever we have been given. Fighting the good fight, working out our salvation, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord...ie, overcoming our flesh and old man. At least this is how i'm understanding these things....bearing in mind we only know in part.

Have to say, I'm not liking where Calvin said the mind is the least tainted with sin. To me that will lead people to rely on the carnal mind rather than rely on the Spirit/mind of Christ for understanding. The bible says the carnal mind is ENMITY with God. The natural mind is flesh, not spirit....it's in a fallen state......only the mind of Christ is spirit. The natural man can't receive or discern the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:12)....so we always need the light of Christ to give light to our darkened mind. Remember before we were saved things pertaining to God and the bible might as well have been someone speaking in Chinese to English speaking folk, it just didn't make sense and our natural minds rejected it as nonsense. Until we received a new HEART. :)

Rom 8:6-8

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[amigo de christo]

Keep the faith and hope in CHRIST JESUS whom GOD did send .
He who has the SON has the Father
but He who makes void the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON
calls GOD himself a LIAR . Let none fall for the lie that GOD is fine with all religoins and paths
so long as they do some good works . It makes void the very testimony that GOD has given of the SON .
That who so ever BELIEVES will be saved but that he who believeth not shall be damned .
JESUS said this . IF JESUS said it , GOD said it . HE spoke only as HE HEARD . EVERY WORD OF HIS COMES FROM GOD .
let no man take your crown .

 

[Lizbeth]

Keep the faith and hope in CHRIST JESUS whom GOD did send .
He who has the SON has the Father
but He who makes void the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON
calls GOD himself a LIAR . Let none fall for the lie that GOD is fine with all religoins and paths
so long as they do some good works . It makes void the very testimony that GOD has given of the SON .
That who so ever BELIEVES will be saved but that he who believeth not shall be damned .
JESUS said this . IF JESUS said it , GOD said it . HE spoke only as HE HEARD . EVERY WORD OF HIS COMES FROM GOD .
let no man take your crown .

Amen, and Jesus said this as well:

Jhn 3:17-19

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Some will accuse us of being judgmental and condemning the lost....but it is not us saying it, it is JESUS. All we do is believe it (and fear, and be grateful for the gift of faith to believe) and teach or share or preach His word as appropriate, not hiding the only truth that saves from those who need it. We're to be like those who have been rescued out of a burning and sinking ship and then join the effort to help rescue others out of there, not standing around on the shore pointing fingers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen, and Jesus said this as well:

Jhn 3:17-19

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Some will accuse us of being judgmental and condemning the lost....but it is not us saying it, it is JESUS. All we do is believe it (and fear, and be grateful for the gift of faith to believe) and teach or share or preach His word as appropriate, not hiding the only truth that saves from those who need it. We're to be like those who have been rescued out of a burning and sinking ship and then join the effort to help rescue others out of there, not standing around on the shore pointing fingers.

Amen,

As is said, the gates of hell will not prevail.. It is our Job to enter enemy territory and rescue people out from under enemy hands, And the only way they can be rescued is through Christ..

 

[Episkopos]

Some will accuse us of being judgmental and condemning the lost....but it is not us saying it, it is JESUS.

You are twisting the bible to support your own ways... You have a condemning attitude that is NOT of the Lord. You are indeed judgmental...as this is necessary to justify your claims...to your justification. And a culprit is needed for that. Just look at all the posers here that agree with you and you agree with. Look at the religious attitudes...which you also support.


John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The worst sinners will always be the judgmental religious ones....but these can't take their eyes away from those who they believe they are better than. Instead, look to God, fear Him, and humble yourself. He gives grace to the humble.

 

[Episkopos]

A revival does many things. It calls sinners to repentance. But to those who have believed the gospel (to some degree) already it is a call to come out from hiding behind religious walls ...and slogans...as we see so MUCH on this thread. Even if you were to stack John 3:16 t-shirts, posters and billboards up into heaven...that does not justify a person...but rather shows an outer religious man seeking to hide in order to APPEAR...to whitewash...the inner corruption. Virtue signalling is ONLY done by hypocrites.

Pharisees are allergic to revivals...and will always stand against any move of the living God.

A shallow soil receives the gospel with an initial joy...but then turns against the faithful due to an offense to the uncrucified flesh they identify with. Those want their flesh to be saved. They will try to perpetuate that initial joy by remaining glued to an initial grace. They see any advancement as a threat so that they protect their talent by burying it. These get offended at the truth as it exposes their superficiality. These are they that adopt the spirit of Cain...and of Koreh, railing against those who have gone further...claiming their rights to salvation by denying any advancement in the truth. The truth is seen as persecution by these...and triggers more virtue-signalling and condemnation.

 

[ChristisGod]

You are twisting the bible to support your own ways... You have a condemning attitude that is NOT of the Lord. You are indeed judgmental...as this is necessary to justify your claims...to your justification. And a culprit is needed for that. Just look at all the posers here that agree with you and you agree with. Look at the religious attitudes...which you also support.


John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The worst sinners will always be the judgmental religious ones....but these can't take their eyes away from those who they believe they are better than. Instead, look to God, fear Him, and humble yourself. He gives grace to the humble.

Are you claiming unrepentant sinner will not be condemned ?

 

[Episkopos]

Are you claiming unrepentant sinner will not be condemned ?

Are you asking for a friend or yourself?

 

[ChristisGod]

Are you asking for a friend or yourself?

Asking what the Bible says . Will unrepentant sinners be condemned eternally ? Yes or no

 

[Episkopos]

Asking what the Bible says . Will unrepentant sinners be condemned eternally ? Yes or no

In your religious mind, you assume that your ideas of any of the words you have spoken are understood in the same way as they are formulated in the bible.

How do you define "unrepentant'? Does that mean resisting hypocritical religious dogmas?

How do you define "condemned"? Does that mean not accepted in the "old boy" networks of the self-justified?

How do you define "eternally"? Does that mean NOW in eternal reality or some future age where religious speculators already see themselves smoking spiritual cigars?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are twisting the bible to support your own ways... You have a condemning attitude that is NOT of the Lord. You are indeed judgmental...as this is necessary to justify your claims...to your justification. And a culprit is needed for that. Just look at all the posers here that agree with you and you agree with. Look at the religious attitudes...which you also support.


John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The worst sinners will always be the judgmental religious ones....but these can't take their eyes away from those who they believe they are better than. Instead, look to God, fear Him, and humble yourself. He gives grace to the humble.

You have a serious reading comprehension. either that or a guilt complex

1. She did not mention you by name, She said SOME
2. She did not condemn anyone. She just said she may get accused of being judgmental..And do you even know why she said that??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A revival does many things. It calls sinners to repentance. But to those who have believed the gospel (to some degree) already it is a call to come out from hiding behind religious walls ...and slogans...as we see so MUCH on this thread. Even if you were to stack John 3:16 t-shirts, posters and billboards up into heaven...that does not justify a person...but rather shows an outer religious man seeking to hide in order to APPEAR...to whitewash...the inner corruption. Virtue signalling is ONLY done by hypocrites.

Pharisees are allergic to revivals...and will always stand against any move of the living God.

A shallow soil receives the gospel with an initial joy...but then turns against the faithful due to an offense to the uncrucified flesh they identify with. Those want their flesh to be saved. They will try to perpetuate that initial joy by remaining glued to an initial grace. They see any advancement as a threat so that they protect their talent by burying it. These get offended at the truth as it exposes their superficiality. These are they that adopt the spirit of Cain...and of Koreh, railing against those who have gone further...claiming their rights to salvation by denying any advancement in the truth. The truth is seen as persecution by these...and triggers more virtue-signalling and condemnation.

A shallow soil person has never met Christ.

Why do you have such a low attitude of what true saving faith is?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In your religious mind, you assume that your ideas of any of the words you have spoken are understood in the same way as they are formulated in the bible.

How do you define "unrepentant'? Does that mean resisting hypocritical religious dogmas?

How do you define "condemned"? Does that mean not accepted in the "old boy" networks of the self-justified?

How do you define "eternally"? Does that mean NOW in eternal reality or some future age where religious speculators already see themselves smoking spiritual cigars?

SMH

 

[ChristisGod]

In your religious mind, you assume that your ideas of any of the words you have spoken are understood in the same way as they are formulated in the bible.

How do you define "unrepentant'? Does that mean resisting hypocritical religious dogmas?

How do you define "condemned"? Does that mean not accepted in the "old boy" networks of the self-justified?

How do you define "eternally"? Does that mean NOW in eternal reality or some future age where religious speculators already see themselves smoking spiritual cigars?

Let me rephrase the question.

Will there be a future judgment where those who are not saved/ have eternal life be condemned forever and be in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels ? yes or no

And answering a question with a questions is a is the fallacy known as the many questions fallacy.

hope this helps !!!