What is so wrong with Calvinism ?

[ChristisGod]

Love is one of the primary and essential attributes which reflect the nature and character of God. The word Theology refers to the study of God, and God is Triune, a Trinity- Tri-Unity. All doctrine begins with God at its starting point. God’s innate attributes are Aseity (God is self-sufficient), Infinite (without limit), Eternal (God has no beginning or end, he is timeless), Immutable (God is unchanging), Love (God is love), Holy (God is set-apart), Perichoresis (the indwelling of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Divine Simplicity states God is Love and because He is Love, not because He possesses that quality. God's love is the center of all the Divine Attributes. They point to His Being. God is not distinct from His nature.

God is Love. In love, the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John 4 tells us.

We must understand how God's attributes all work in harmony together, not in opposition to each other. God's attributes and character flow from His love—for God is love.

God being love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is love, and that love is perfect, lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love, by definition, has to be expressed with another, which is why a unitarian god cannot be love. Love requires another to share and express that love, and it is what we see with the Triune God. God is love before anyone/anything existed.

In Calvin’s Institutes monumental work, it is interesting for a man with such an attention to detail when it comes to dogma and Scripture that he left out any mention of Gods primary attribute that God is love from 1 John 4:8;1 John 4:16 and any biblical reference to those two verses in 1 John regarding God is love. His institutes contain thousands of bible references, over 1500 pages and 40 index pages of scripture references. But strikingly he chose to leave out God is love and the 2 passages in 1 John.

Another interesting fact is that in the Shorter Westminster Catechism of Faith, question 4 “What is God “? We read the following regarding Gods attributes and notice what is left out.

“God is Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth. “

Notice like in Calvin’s Institute’s, the WCF leaves out Gods primary attribute that He is love.

Before creation, there was no sin. There was no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, and justice. There was no Sovereignty for there was no creation to be Sovereign over. Why do you ask about those attributes and that they were not necessary? Because those are God's secondary attributes concerning the creation and the fall. God's love is a primary attribute, like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes, which were not in use until the creation and the fall.

The true nature of Gods love is at the heart of the gospel message: God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in His shall not perish but have everlasting life, John 3:16.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17.

conclusion: Love is missing in Calvinism. In calvinist doctrine we get an unbiblical view of Gods love for man and a gospel that is limited to some, not all.

PS- I was a staunch calvinist for over 40 years. So I understand the ins and outs of calvinism very well as I have defended it for several decades. Love is the missing link in Calvinism.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Behold]

How do you know that Calvinism, "TULIP"...... is a CULT?

Its because those who are deceived by it, refer to themselves as CALVINISTS.

Christians refer to themselves as CHRISTians.

See the problem?
Some of you need to take a good long look...

 

[ChristisGod]

How do you know that Calvinism, "TULIP"...... is a CULT?

Its because those who are deceived by it, refer to themselves as CALVINISTS.

Christians refer to themselves as CHRISTians.

See the problem?
Some of you need to take a good long look...

I never said it was a " cult " . I said they have love wrong. Try rereading my post.

You are arguing a strawman.

 

[reformed1689]

Oh brother, he wrote a commentary on it...


Beloved. He returns to that exhortation which he enforces almost throughout the Epistle. We have, indeed, said, that it is filled with the doctrine of faith and exhortation to love. On these two points he so dwells, that he continually passes from the one to the other.
When he commands mutual love, he does not mean that we discharge this duty when we love our friends, because they love us; but as he addresses in common the faithful, he could not have spoken otherwise than that they were to exercise mutual love. He confirms this sentence by a reason often adduced before, even because no one can prove himself to be the son of God, except he loves his neighbours, and because the true knowledge of God necessarily produces love in us.
He also sets in opposition to this, according to his usual manner, the contrary clause, that there is no knowledge of God where there is no love. And he takes as granted a general principle or truth, that God is love, that is, that his nature is to love men. I know that many reason more refinedly, and that the ancients especially have perverted this passage in order to prove the divinity of the Spirit. But the meaning of the Apostle is simply this,—that as God is the fountain of love, this effect flows from him, and is diffused wherever the knowledge of him comes, as he had at the beginning called him light, because there is nothing p 239 dark in him, but on the contrary he illuminates all things by his own brightness. Here then he does not speak of the essence of God, but only shews what he is found to be by us.
But two things in the Apostle’s words ought to be noticed,—that the true knowledge of God is that which regenerates and renews us, so that we become new creatures; and that hence it cannot be but that it must conform us to the image of God. Away, then, with that foolish gloss respecting unformed faith. For when any one separates faith from love, it is the same as though he attempted to take away heat from the sun.


John Calvin and John Owen, Commentaries on the Catholic Epistles (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 238–239.

 

[ChristisGod]

Oh brother, he wrote a commentary on it...


Beloved. He returns to that exhortation which he enforces almost throughout the Epistle. We have, indeed, said, that it is filled with the doctrine of faith and exhortation to love. On these two points he so dwells, that he continually passes from the one to the other.
When he commands mutual love, he does not mean that we discharge this duty when we love our friends, because they love us; but as he addresses in common the faithful, he could not have spoken otherwise than that they were to exercise mutual love. He confirms this sentence by a reason often adduced before, even because no one can prove himself to be the son of God, except he loves his neighbours, and because the true knowledge of God necessarily produces love in us.
He also sets in opposition to this, according to his usual manner, the contrary clause, that there is no knowledge of God where there is no love. And he takes as granted a general principle or truth, that God is love, that is, that his nature is to love men. I know that many reason more refinedly, and that the ancients especially have perverted this passage in order to prove the divinity of the Spirit. But the meaning of the Apostle is simply this,—that as God is the fountain of love, this effect flows from him, and is diffused wherever the knowledge of him comes, as he had at the beginning called him light, because there is nothing p 239 dark in him, but on the contrary he illuminates all things by his own brightness. Here then he does not speak of the essence of God, but only shews what he is found to be by us.
But two things in the Apostle’s words ought to be noticed,—that the true knowledge of God is that which regenerates and renews us, so that we become new creatures; and that hence it cannot be but that it must conform us to the image of God. Away, then, with that foolish gloss respecting unformed faith. For when any one separates faith from love, it is the same as though he attempted to take away heat from the sun.


John Calvin and John Owen, Commentaries on the Catholic Epistles (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2010), 238–239.

that is not the institutes but thanks

 

[reformed1689]

that is not the institutes but thanks

Yeah and you tried to build a premise that Calvinism is wrong based on one work of one man that Calvinism isn't even truly based on. That's the point.

 

[Behold]

I never said it was a " cult " . .

I said its a Cult.
See, you can always spot the cults, by how they deny the Grace of God as being eternally established, by GOD Through Christ, and not by them.

A cult member will always try to teach that you can "lose your salvation".
Its their core belief, and theological deception.

Also, a Cult or a Cultist always refers to themselves as their Cult.

"im a mormon"
"im a JW"
"im a Catholic"
"im a Calvinist"
"im a Pagan"

Well, a Christian defines themselves as being a "CHRISTian".

Reader, do you follow me?
Are you SEEING it?

 

[reformed1689]

I said its a Cult.
See, you can always spot the cults, by how they deny the Grace of God as being eternally established, by GOD Through Christ, and not by them.

A cult member will always try to teach that you can "lose your salvation".
Its their core belief, and theological deception.

Also, a Cult or a Cultist always refers to themselves as their Cult.

"im a mormon"
"im a JW"
"im a Catholic"
"im a Calvinist"
"im a Pagan"

Well, a Christian defines themselves as being a "CHRISTian".

Reader, do you follow me?
Are you SEEING it?

Um Calvinists do not identify themselves as Calvinist, we identify ourselves as Christians.

 

[BarneyFife]

Um Calvinists do not identify themselves as Calvinist, we identify ourselves as Christians.

You just did. Who is "we?" You are all different. Many, many Calvinists identify quite exclusively as Calvinist. When you talk to a Calvinist, you never know who you're talking to. The god who fashions some of his creatures for the intended purpose of harassing his elect and then of being consigned to eternal agony in flames is not Christian. Are you that flavor of Calvinist? I can't keep track of who believes what among those who identify as Calvinists here. People who flock to and set up camp in threads about Calvinism and advocate its tenets are identifying themselves as Calvinists.

 

[Behold]

Um Calvinists do not identify themselves as Calvinist, we identify ourselves as Christians.

What else could you say.

But i assure you that Calvinists love to let you know they are a Calvinist.
Have you noticed they like to stench up forums with their Thread's about it?
You should notice this one day.
God does.

 

[BarneyFife]

I never said it was a " cult " . I said they have love wrong. Try rereading my post.

You are arguing a strawman.

It is his style to ask a question somewhat rhetorically; then answer it himself.

 

[reformed1689]

You just did. Who is "we?" You are all different. Many, many Calvinists identify quite exclusively as Calvinist. When you talk to a Calvinist, you never know who you're talking to. The god who fashions some of his creatures for the intended purpose of harassing his elect and then of being consigned to eternal agony in flames is not Christian. Are you that flavor of Calvinist? I can't keep track of who believes what among those who identify as Calvinists here. People who flock to and set up camp in threads about Calvinism and advocate its tenets are identifying themselves as Calvinists.

I would be considered a five point Calvinist. Someone who believes the Bible. ALL of the Bible, including Romans 9 that yes says some are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

 

[BarneyFife]

What else could you say.

But i assure you that Calvinists love to let you know they are a Calvinist.
Have you noticed they like to stench up forums with their Thread's about it?
You should notice this one day.
God does.

I beat you to it. lol
@Lifelong_sinner should be arriving any minute now.
Then we can see Daniel 12:10 turned on its head.

 

[reformed1689]

What else could you say.

But i assure you that Calvinists love to let you know they are a Calvinist.
Have you noticed they like to stench up forums with their Thread's about it?
You should notice this one day.
God does.

Maybe because they want the truth of Scripture proclaimed.

 

[BarneyFife]

I would be considered a five point Calvinist. Someone who believes the Bible. ALL of the Bible, including Romans 9 that yes says some are vessels of wrath prepared for destruction.

It goes without saying, doubtless. Not my first rodeo. I'm sure I'm not alone.

The fragmentation and frequent tenacious fanaticism of Calvinism strangely fascinate me.

 

[BarneyFife]

Maybe because they want the truth of Scripture proclaimed.

Whether they know it or not, what they want to be proclaimed is the Synod of Dort and WCF.

 

[reformed1689]

Whether they know it or not, what they want to be proclaimed is the Synod of Dort and WCF.

No, the Synod of Dort and the WCF (which I do not follow) proclaim Scripture. We go back to Scripture, not a man's writings. I know you can't accept that fact because you want to be in control in a form of humanist salvation.

 

[BarneyFife]

No, the Synod of Dort and the WCF (which I do not follow) proclaim Scripture. We go back to Scripture, not a man's writings. I know you can't accept that fact because you want to be in control in a form of humanist salvation.

How utterly ridiculous. All redemption is of full and free GRACE. I can't accept your "fact" because no matter how well-polished your system of sophistry is, someone will come along and quote the WCF as proof of their Calvinist beliefs. Are you the one who claims that the only possible options for salvation are Arminianism and Calvinism? Again, you never know who you're talking to and I can't keep track of you all.

I subscribe to Romans 5:8/John 1:29-ism—Christism.

 

[reformed1689]

How utterly ridiculous. All redemption is of full and free GRACE. I can't accept your "fact" because no matter how well-polished your system of sophistry is, someone will come along and quote the WCF as proof of their Calvinist beliefs. Are you the one who claims that the only possible options for salvation are Arminianism and Calvinism? Again, you never know who you're talking to and I can keep track of you all.

I subscribe to Romans 5:8/John 1:29-ism—Christism.

Actually I am saying that only the view I hold to, the biblical one, is the way of salvation.

Romans 5:8 was written to Christians. It was not written to the lost. And John 1:29 says world, not every individual. Do you believe in universalism? All go to heaven? Nobody goes to hell?

 

[BarneyFife]

Tell me SDA, what is investigative judgement?? Isnt that where yall believe that Jesus death was not complete and that He is still atoning for the sins of people??

Yes, Jesus's death was not complete.

See how stupid that sounds? Didn't He die completely?

Perhaps you're talking about His cry: "It Is finished." So something was definitely finished. We know that, because God's word has creative power built right into itself, so it had to happen.

Do you know what was finished that first Good Friday?
I don't think you do. Was it the atonement?

Or did He still have to be resurrected, so that we could have new life and eternal life? I'm pretty sure the apostle Paul says just that very plainly in 1 Corinthians 15:12-17 and Colossians 2:12 and Romans 8:11 and Colossians 3:1 and probably a dozen other places.

The atonement is illustrated in the ancient Hebrew Sanctuary service and the altar of burnt offering (which symbolizes Calvary) is the very first piece of furniture in the Tabernacle.
There are 4 more before you finally get to the presence of God in the Holiest of Holies.
Yom Kippur. We are, right now, living in the antitypical Great Day Of Atonement.

I am not going to explain the Investigative Judgment to you so you can cavil and profane it and flirt with blasphemy. I guarantee you that you don't understand it. Most Adventists don't even understand it. It's good news, I'll tell you that much. And without it, we're all lost. Millions of people who've never heard of it have benefited from it. It isn't like baptism for the dead. And it isn't about God learning anything about the sins of men.

Investigative judgment is all throughout the Bible: Eden (Genesis 3:9); Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:5) ; Sodom (Genesis 18:21); and others. God not only does right, but He desires that His creatures can see that He does right—God is love.