Blasphemy: The Limits of God

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Wrangler

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This is a thread I've wanted to start for a long time. Merriam Webster defines blasphemy as the act of claiming the attributes of a deity, which necessarily means when we say we have Christ in us, we are making a blasphemous statement. And we are certainly limited.

Yes, Scripture says that with God all things are possible. I submit people take this out of context. It's a philosophical axiom that all things that exist are limited. So, what are the limits of God? Like all things that exist is bound by his own nature. God gets angry but his anger is satiated. He loves but is just. God forgives but is holy. We can trust him but he will throw some into the Lake of Fire for eternal annihilation. Is this not true?
 
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Cyd

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This is a thread I've wanted to start for a long time. Merriam Webster defines blasphemy as the act of claiming the attributes of a deity, which necessarily means when we say we have Christ in us, we are making a blasphemous statement. And we are certainly limited.

Yes, Scripture says that with God all things are possible. I submit people take this out of context. It's a philosophical axiom that all things that exist are limited. So, what are the limits of God? Like all things that exist is bound by his own nature. God gets angry but his anger is satiated. He loves but is just. God forgives but is holy. We can trust him but he will throw some into the Lake of Fire for eternal annihilation. Is this not true?

Jesus prayed we would be one as He is one with the Father... what does this mean to you?

John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
 

Wrangler

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Almighty eternal God has no limits!!
The OP lists numerous limits.

There are other Scriptural references to God's limits 2 Peter 3:9-10 says God is patient BUT the day of the Lord will come like a thief. This means his patience will run out, i.e., has limits.
 
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RedFan

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So, what are the limits of God? Like all things that exist [He] is bound by his own nature.
Is this why He cannot forgive the sins of mankind as an exercise of divine mercy without having His Son nailed to the cross?
 

Adrift

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Having "Christ in us" is merely a metaphor. God is not a thing. He should not be grouped with "things" as He has no limits. That's just how I feel about it.
 

Wrangler

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Having "Christ in us" is merely a metaphor. God is not a thing. He should not be grouped with "things" as He has no limits. That's just how I feel about it.
Circular reasoning.

The sky is purple. That's just how I feel about it. The question is not about how you feel.
 

Adrift

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Either way, it's a metaphor. Maybe not for the stiff-necked.
 

Wrangler

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Either way, it's a metaphor. Maybe not for the stiff-necked.
What's not a metaphor is that God has limits.

And I do not believe that the Spirit of God in us is a metaphor. Why do you suppose Christ said,
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. John 15:4

Because we could NOT remain in him. This means our being a vessel to bring the Kingdom of God has limits. And the very fact that God accomplishes his will through agents is limited. Christ was only on Earth for a short time, etc.
 

Behold

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We can trust him but he will throw some into the Lake of Fire

Think of it like this..

Heaven is a eternal destination

Hell, and then the Lake of Fire, are a eternal destination..


Now, imagine you see a road.. and on one end of it, is Heaven, and on the other end of it is Hell.

And in the Middle of the road.... is the Cross of Christ that is pointing To the WAY to Heaven.

Everyone is on this road, and everyone gets to DECIDE which way they go....

So, going to heaven, is not being "sent", and going to hell is the same...

Both of these are found, in the end, by a decision a person makes while they are breathing..

If you want to go to Heaven, then Christ is the Way.

If you decide you wont have Him, then you end up on the other end of the road, and the PERSON chose that, by NOT Choosing Christ while they were alive.
 

Adrift

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Show us where in the Bible it states that God has limits.
 

Randy Kluth

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This is a thread I've wanted to start for a long time. Merriam Webster defines blasphemy as the act of claiming the attributes of a deity, which necessarily means when we say we have Christ in us, we are making a blasphemous statement. And we are certainly limited.

Yes, Scripture says that with God all things are possible. I submit people take this out of context. It's a philosophical axiom that all things that exist are limited. So, what are the limits of God? Like all things that exist is bound by his own nature. God gets angry but his anger is satiated. He loves but is just. God forgives but is holy. We can trust him but he will throw some into the Lake of Fire for eternal annihilation. Is this not true?
Being limited by definition is not the reduction of Deity from His omnipotence. It is just a definition. For example, defining God as "not the universe" is not limiting God, but rather, defining who He is and who He is not.

Also, if a Divine Being limits Himself by His own statements, or word, then once again, the limitation does not deprive Deity of His omnipotence. It is a matter of His own Divine choices. For example, God's promise to save Israel is not limiting His ability to reject Israel. It is an expression of what an omnipotent God's prerogatives are.

As far as humans participating in Divine "attributes" and thus becoming "blasphemous," obviously I couldn't sign onto that! That would be like admitting I'm "blasphemous" when I saw that I am "in Christ," or that "Christ is in me," or that I "participate in the Divine nature," as the Scriptures say.

2 Peter 1.4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

So the real issue, for me, comes down to how we use these words, and how they should be defined. In the context of biblical theology, I could not call our participation in Divine virtue an act of "blasphemy."

Blasphemy, in the biblical context, would be a deliberate, provocative declaration that God is the opposite, in term of who He is, than the way He really is. It is attributing to the loving acts of God the works of demons.

When we define the "attributes of God," in the context of our human participation in them, we must not define these "attributes" as matters of defining who God is. We are not God when we participate in His "attributes," or virtues.

Rather, we should be defining what things God is willing to dispense, out of His own virtues and character, that He is willing to impart to Man, just as He had created him in His own image and likeness. We should not define us "as God" or as "part of God," but rather, as willing recipients of His grace and spiritual endowment.
 

Wrangler

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Also, if a Divine Being limits Himself by His own statements, or word, then once again, the limitation does not deprive Deity of His omnipotence.
Agreed. He chooses to limit himself to good actions, just actions, loving actions.

Jesus said God is good. It is this philosophical foundation that led to scientific discoveries in the West but not the East, Middle East, etc. Islam rejects Jesus’ claim.

It is worded that Allah’s hands are not fettered. Given a god who is not necessarily good, it implies we have no basis for understanding the world. Therefore, they don’t even seek to learn about what we can about God through his Creation.
 

APAK

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I believe this OP really is asking who is God and what is his true nature or personality. And then why in his creation, as we are one, do we observe and perceive limits placed on his work within his creation. I could be way-off base here. And I do not know how a definition of blasphemy fits into this discussion and why it applies to the expression ' we have Christ in us,' It is not a claim of being the Son or his God with Godlike powers for ourselves, imo.
 

Randy Kluth

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Agreed. He chooses to limit himself to good actions, just actions, loving actions.

Jesus said God is good. It is this philosophical foundation that led to scientific discoveries in the West but not the East, Middle East, etc. Islam rejects Jesus’ claim.

It is worded that Allah’s hands are not fettered. Given a god who is not necessarily good, it implies we have no basis for understanding the world. Therefore, they don’t even seek to learn about what we can about God through his Creation.
Really good points! The philosophical basis for a good God is indeed part of what sparked the discoveries in science in the West, in Christian Europe and elsewhere. Beyond that God simply said that He would bless those who attended to His virtues.

That is, He would give them success in their scientific endeavors. After all, He called upon Man to "keep the garden." If we comply with His mandate, we will be successful in our participation in human growth. Thank you!
 
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