Yes, I'm getting that impression also.
I meant it more a generalize statement of how I see this part of our process, but I suppose that I'm still in process of this being the reality of my life. I still find in myself times when I hold back.
Ah, but you ARE reaching for it right?Me too. Because we have faith that with God all things are possible. So why would we argue against the thing we're reaching for? It takes faith to believe it's possible (with God) to overcome the enemy and enter/conquer the Promised Land.
There's a teaching out there that in the time nearing the end of the age, that there will be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the church, comparable to Pentecost. And that this outpouring will as a result immediately remove deception and immediately impart faith to all the redeemed. And divisions in the church will cease, and all the church will perform miracles of prophecy and healings and raising the dead, like that.
And as with everything else, there are many variations on that theme, but the basic idea being a corporate outpouring of the Spirit transforming the church.
I dont' know what it will look like exactly, but I believe that the battle is going to get hotter and with that the Lord will give His people greater grace to meet the challenge, because we'll need it and He has promised to meet our needs. Esther gives us a picture of the King allowing the people of God to arm themselves to the teeth in order to fight the enemy (Haman...Satan/Antchirst) coming against them, and win/overcome. Thinking of spiritual weaponry of course, by the Holy Spirit. Remember Jesus saying we'll do greater works than His.....we haven't seen that yet, as far as I know. And it's all for HIS glory. Going to be some tremendous miracles by the sounds of things. The devil's going to be sorry he messed with us.
Mal 4:1-3
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
I see the latter rain as being the extra oil to finish the race and get into the wedding banquet. Entirely scriptural. Two gushings of water from the rock, no second crucifixion (hitting the rock) necessary for that second outpouring, it has already been paid for. We need only seek/ask God for it and speak the word of faith. Second gushing of water necessary to keep the weary and thirsty Israelites alive for the last leg of the journey to the Promised Land. It's a second outpouring as it were, but not a second Pentecost....as our brother has said, Pentecost is only the down payment and betrothal. Tabernacles reminds me of wedding and bridal chamber and Christ dwelling/tabernacling in us and we in Him....FULLY. Personal or corporate...maybe both... at the very least since if it becomes a personal reality for a number of individual people, it's corporate to them all as a group also.
All these things are examples to us, and I believe a sign of a true Christian is that desire to be rid of spots and wrinkles, to be clothed in pure clothing, not to be ashamed at His coming.
Time is short and getting shorter!
Amen.
Amen!
God could just gift us with that sort of faith, but it seems to me that because He has appointed us for trials and tribulations, that somehow, that way is better. I think because it involves our participation, and that the whole idea of everything, that God created us so that we could participate in What He Is Doing.
Amen, He has His reasons.....even when God gives us gifts, we tend to mess it up because of the flesh nature, so that is what has to be crucified through the trials and tribs, our flesh nature, in spirit and in truth.
Much love!
What is the High Calling in Christ?
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I noticed you said if we put others first .
Would i be putting a child first , if i let him skate on thin ice just cause he loved to skate .
I TROW NOT .
PUT JESUS FIRST and put the welfare of others above even our own selves .
LOOK OUT for the others . Let us be of the mindset to put the NEEDS of others even above our own selves .
And SIN aint a need either . I say that cause i am long worn out with this concept that somehow if we close our eyes
to the sins of a person that will bring them to christ as though that is somehow loving them to GOD .
IF SO , paul and every apostel and CHRIST Himself would be in serious error .
I AM LONG WORN OUT and SO WORE OUT with this junk pile i of a false loving them to GOD
KEEP SILENT about TRUTH cause OH DEAR THAT MIGHT OFFEND .
PREACH TRUTH and DO ALL for the others as GOD DID FOR US and YE would have them do to you .
I WAS LOST ONCE MARK . GOD DIDNT LOVE ME TO GOD BY ALLOWING ME TO FOLLOW MY SIN . AND WE SHOULD NOT
DO that unto others . TIME TO CORRECT . Error and leaven never travel alone my friend .
IF leaven comes a knocking and a man allows it in , IT WILL FILL that man
IF leaven comes within the church and its allowed in and not corrected , ITS GONNA BRING BUDDIES
ERROR never travels alone . IT BRINGETH MANY FRIENDS .
SEE error and leaven as a twelve inch ruler . And satan as the master of said ruler .
YOU allow one millimeter of that ruler to become infected with leaven , LEAVEN ERROR and SATAN WILL BECOME THE RULER .
AND BY RULER i dont just mean RULER , BUT RULER OF THE CHURCH AND OF OUR LIFE . CORRECTION IS NOT SIN
WARNING IS NOT SIN nor is it hate . BUT I WILL TELL US WHAT THE BIBLE CALLS HATE .
YE SHALL NOT HATE YOUR NEIGHBOR IN YOUR HEART , YOU SHALL IN ANY WAY REBUKE CORRECT THEM
and not allow sin UPON THEM . ALLOWING folks to live in sin and feel okay , IS HATE . PEROID . WE GOTTA STAND NOW
and expose all errors , expose those who teach errors and falsehoods and start living AS DID CHRIST AND THE APOSTELS
and the true lambs . OR GET BUSYING WITH BEING DECEIVED . cause that is all that will happen .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
A house cleaning is coming . And its not of GOD either . SOON enough more and more true lambs
will start be removed from sites for simply contending for the true faith and exosing error . CAUSE that wont bring the UNITY
so many long to see . A false UNITY has taken hold of many peoples now .
Their are folks within a certain denomination that desire all to sit under that ONE denomination and they will do all to make sure
it happens . Just reminding us is all .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Lift those hands and let all that draws breath praise the LORD .
WE never know when our last day might be .
It could be my last day on earth
OR maybe on this site
The thing is we never know . SO get busy doing all for CHRIST while we have the time to do so . Now lift those hands up and
let the LORD be praised .
WE never know when our last day might be .
It could be my last day on earth
OR maybe on this site
The thing is we never know . SO get busy doing all for CHRIST while we have the time to do so . Now lift those hands up and
let the LORD be praised .
Ah, but you ARE reaching for it right?
I am! For that reason. God has promised us that if we seek, we find. As we draw near to Him, He draws near to us. I have no greater desire than to draw nearer to God.
They became thirsty again, and Moses struck the rock again, though he should have spoken to it. But they would be thirsty continually after, and Paul told us the Rock that followed them was Christ.
We need His Spirit always, even as God has promised us, He has given all we need for life and godliness, for living in this world, and for our living spirits.
I see Latter Rain teaching as tenous, not something clearly taught, and based on seeing types in the OT that aren't really specified in the text, and similes in the NT.
James tells us to be patient, that, as the farmer waits for both the early rain and the latter rain,
James 5:7-8 KJV
7) Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8) Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
in a simile of our patience awaiting the coming of the Lord.
Crossing the Red Sea is called in the NT a type, though crossing the Jordan is not. These are things I look at.
At the end of the day, I desire all that God desires for me, and I have no wish to limit Him in my lack of faith or obedience.
To the one who says that we are awaiting a second outpouring of the Spirit, I answer, let's remember, let's realize, that God as already given us all we need for life and godliness, let us work out what He is working in, and not defer to a future time.
I've heard some claim that it's this lack of a second outpouring that we as Christians are not able to know unity with each other, for instance. I don't agree that this is the reason.
I do in fact find a "second outpouring" in the Bible, though it's not what most usually think of, I don't think.
Zechariah 12:10 KJV
10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Interestingly, this will be at the coming of the Lord Jesus, which harmonizes with the passage in James.
Much love!
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I think part of our higher calling is to be able to allow these things to rest in God's hands, as we live with compassion and forgiveness, knowing that we might be being wronged, and that we might be wronging others, and that the Lord will need to make these things clear to each of us. Both where I might be misunderstanding, misjudging others, and when I might be blind to something in my self. We should be more concerned that we are not doing something to harm others, then whether we are being harmed.
Emotional drives are very strong, but sometimes like a flood, overflowing it's banks, sweeping away indescriminately.
Feelings follow thoughts, and beliefs, if we have a true faith, and as our minds are renewed, conformed to Christ, our feelings need not be the destroyers they so often are.
Being filled with His outpouring love, our emotions will be love and peace and joy.
God is the One Who will judge, we are called to trust Him, and love each other.
Much love!
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There is a deeper stream of life than this that we are called to...and that is experienced when we personally enter into Christ. The one who is crucified no longer has his/her reaction to things. Being dead in Christ means being a bond-slave or possessed of Christ. This goes much further than what modern people want to go. it's easy to just take the words of the bible for oneself in order to justify sinful flesh. That's the religious version of Christianity...claiming to be justified for holding certain beliefs.
But the whole walk at that level is carnal....trying to exhibit the best of the flesh. What is lost in this scheme is basic honesty. The outer man hides his ways by putting up a religious front...learning the lingo and trying to appear loving, But lurking behind the mask is the desire to be accepted with the outer man undealt with. Not just accepted...but accepted as a disciple of Christ! It takes discernment to see who is posing and who is walking in resurrection life. They "sound" the same since the outer man is an actor (hypocrite) and thrives by fooling people as to the depth or lack thereof of his/her walk.
This is so common that most will never be able to discern it...especially if they have been conditioned to do the same thing.
Loving each other on a human level is a good thing...but its not the way in Christ. That way is getting out of the way so that it is Christ who loves through us. Now, people will claim to be doing that because they have been conditioned to exaggerate their condition through the practice of "naming and claiming"...which is just more carnal coverup.
A true walk in Christ has both fear AND comfort. The flesh produces neither until there is an encounter with the living God.
That is why the second encounter of baptism in the Spirit is necessary. Only the outer man Christians will resist this. Resist an intimate encounter with God? Yes, in order to preserve the "best" of the flesh. Make no mistake, the church of the outer man is the church of Saul...the church of Cain.
Yes, we must truly encounter the Living God. But not in a second baptism of the Spirit. Many Christians have experiences they define that way, finding them to be transformative. For myself, while I'm not really here to put myself on display, I've had a number of deeply transformative spiritual experiences. We base our doctrines on Scripture and not our experiences. So we define our experiences by Scripture, and call it what the Bible calls it.
But if we only disagree on what we call things, that's only arguments over words, not necessary.
People have all sorts of ways of hiding, and all sorts of ways of lying to themselves, as you've described only a few of those.
Again, God knows what is true, our opinions may or may not reflect what is real.
I believe, and I think not without good reason, that we are to encounter God in these transformative ways as we go through our lives. Sometimes we will see an immediate an major change, and sometimes perhaps that quiet but golden moment of comfort in the midst of terrible devastation.
I believe that the abundant life that Jesus spoke of is this, that we know God, are intimate with Him, even as was Jesus, having a life like His, actually His life in us.
I believe that we must have the transformative work of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this in us, and that this is what God has promised us, and has given us. And that what remains is that we come to appropriate this more and more by faith as God trains us into a greater faith.
I see in the Bible, and in life, that God gives gifts of faith, which may accomplish any manner of work in our lives, in transforming us, and in ministering God's love and power to others. That God works in and through each of us individually.
I don't see either in the Bible, or in life, two "levels" of Christians, rather, Christians of varying degrees of maturity.
I both desire greater intimacy with God than I know, and I delight in the intimacy with God that I do know. As I've said to others, I don't mind what we call things, other than I think having a disciplined and orderly mind is best, but if you call something this, and I call it that, I'm not so concerned. That you know God's transforming work in your life under any name, that is what is important to me.
Much love!
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@marks
I agree.
I'm finding more & more disappointment in the ppl I engage with here. It seems as though scripture has taken a last pew approach over their opinions, interpertations, experiences, and their perception is of greater importance.
I want my life to be a mirror of God, his Word and his love. Not to be seen as myself but for him to shine forth, isn't that what God wants too?
So many in this last month have caused me to understand exactly why God repented that he had made man. There are those that have only one track on their player and it grinds rather than soothes. Others have found THEIR OWN WAY and are quite happy in their delusions even if everything they claim is against the TRUTH !
What do we do in these cases ? Oh I know the ignore is there and what is spouted by them won't change the God I serve. Others though without true knowledge can be deceived and misled.
Do we NOT stand in the gap anymore and make up the hedge?
Do we just dust them off and forget the tripe they are caught in ?
I'm really wanting ( in my dreams ) to just ban them all or banish them away so they can do no harm.
I know the Word says FEW, but I'd like it to be many more !
I agree.
I'm finding more & more disappointment in the ppl I engage with here. It seems as though scripture has taken a last pew approach over their opinions, interpertations, experiences, and their perception is of greater importance.
I want my life to be a mirror of God, his Word and his love. Not to be seen as myself but for him to shine forth, isn't that what God wants too?
So many in this last month have caused me to understand exactly why God repented that he had made man. There are those that have only one track on their player and it grinds rather than soothes. Others have found THEIR OWN WAY and are quite happy in their delusions even if everything they claim is against the TRUTH !
What do we do in these cases ? Oh I know the ignore is there and what is spouted by them won't change the God I serve. Others though without true knowledge can be deceived and misled.
Do we NOT stand in the gap anymore and make up the hedge?
Do we just dust them off and forget the tripe they are caught in ?
I'm really wanting ( in my dreams ) to just ban them all or banish them away so they can do no harm.
I know the Word says FEW, but I'd like it to be many more !
Here are some scriptures the Lord has been gracious to show:
Deu 4:24
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deu 9:3
Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. (think personal, His work in OUR life/heart)
Heb 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
Mat 3:11-12
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, AND with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. (OUR chaff)
As Jesus, the captain of our salvation, is our example, pattern and forerunner whose footsteps we are to follow in:
Mat 3:16-17
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat 4:1-2
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (and tried) of the devil.
And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
So, AFTER being baptized in water and the Holy Spirit, Jesus was then led of the Spirit into the wilderness (40 days in the desert for Jesus, being like the 40 years of desert wilderness endured by the Israelites) in order to personally defeat/overcome Satan, the tempter. Remember the way back to the Garden of Eden is guarded by cherubim with FLAMING swords. Seems we have to go through the FIRE to get there. A baptism of fire as it were. The word of God says to believers who already know the Lord and have been baptized with water and the Holy Spirit, that it is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of heaven. We must allow the jealous wrath of God to burn up our chaff - old man, flesh nature - but fear not because He protects His children through it with the intention of bringing us forth as gold and silver that has been refined in the fire. If Jesus the Lamb of God, our forerunner and captain of our salvation was PERFECTED through sufferings, how much more do we need to be? Perfected, as in being resurrected to partake of resurrection life - being made "spiritual". And I think after the wilderness, going to the cross was like the crossing of the Jordan for Jesus, the final severing and death to the flesh nature...apprehending what the wilderness battle had won, so to speak.
Isa 43:1-2
But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
(The Jordan river crossing to enter the land of Promise is here being likened to walking through the fire.)
You know, it occurs that the Father did not force Jesus to go to the cross and be crucified......likewise He will not force us. No that was voluntary, Jesus wrestled with His flesh until He got to the point of obeying the Father's will against even His own instinctive will to live...."nevertheless not my will but thine be done." That willingness I believe comes to us from the Lord too, since He has conquered the flesh for us....we have our part, but He has done the heavy lifting. Jesus has made the way for us and we have only to seek Him for what we need, and yield. Fear not. Yes, remember the Ark has gone ahead of us and is standing in that Jordan holding back the flood so we can safely get across. Praise the Lord for His wonderful word and all that He has done for us!
Deu 4:24
For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deu 9:3
Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee. (think personal, His work in OUR life/heart)
Heb 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
Mat 3:11-12
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, AND with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. (OUR chaff)
As Jesus, the captain of our salvation, is our example, pattern and forerunner whose footsteps we are to follow in:
Mat 3:16-17
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mat 4:1-2
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted (and tried) of the devil.
And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
So, AFTER being baptized in water and the Holy Spirit, Jesus was then led of the Spirit into the wilderness (40 days in the desert for Jesus, being like the 40 years of desert wilderness endured by the Israelites) in order to personally defeat/overcome Satan, the tempter. Remember the way back to the Garden of Eden is guarded by cherubim with FLAMING swords. Seems we have to go through the FIRE to get there. A baptism of fire as it were. The word of God says to believers who already know the Lord and have been baptized with water and the Holy Spirit, that it is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of heaven. We must allow the jealous wrath of God to burn up our chaff - old man, flesh nature - but fear not because He protects His children through it with the intention of bringing us forth as gold and silver that has been refined in the fire. If Jesus the Lamb of God, our forerunner and captain of our salvation was PERFECTED through sufferings, how much more do we need to be? Perfected, as in being resurrected to partake of resurrection life - being made "spiritual". And I think after the wilderness, going to the cross was like the crossing of the Jordan for Jesus, the final severing and death to the flesh nature...apprehending what the wilderness battle had won, so to speak.
Isa 43:1-2
But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
(The Jordan river crossing to enter the land of Promise is here being likened to walking through the fire.)
You know, it occurs that the Father did not force Jesus to go to the cross and be crucified......likewise He will not force us. No that was voluntary, Jesus wrestled with His flesh until He got to the point of obeying the Father's will against even His own instinctive will to live...."nevertheless not my will but thine be done." That willingness I believe comes to us from the Lord too, since He has conquered the flesh for us....we have our part, but He has done the heavy lifting. Jesus has made the way for us and we have only to seek Him for what we need, and yield. Fear not. Yes, remember the Ark has gone ahead of us and is standing in that Jordan holding back the flood so we can safely get across. Praise the Lord for His wonderful word and all that He has done for us!
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It's been a couple of days and I still don't have a better answer for you. But I think there isn't a standard answer, we all have our roles given by God. Not everyone has the same function in the body. I think we need to be prayerful in our forum participation, just like anything else we do, to make sure we are going into it with the right heart. I know that anger and jealousy and and pride each twist posts in their own way. I think we need to be careful against that, and to always ask ourselves if what we are posting, are we doing so from a heart that loves the one we are writing to? Is this from the Spirit, or flesh?
Much love!
Of all of His Great and Precious Promises . . . this is perhaps my most dear!
The reason,
Much love!
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Or is "crossing the Jordan" when we begin to take ahold of our new Christian life, when we begin to conquer and take possession of what was promised? Is it when we start to attack those giants who would prevent us from apprehending our new life?
There are many ways we can use the stories from the Old Testament to illustrate our views. So to not form doctrine from narratives is my thinking.
You mention a "final severing and death to the flesh nature", are you referring to the corrupt sin nature from Adam?
Much love!
A couple of comments in your post..
Lizbeth, you cited Acts 14:22 in your post and introduced a new novel meaning into it, out of its original context. It has nothing to do with directly crucifying the flesh, the old man or the carnal self at all.
Why the obsession with this type of crucifixion when physical age and missional spiritual work over time will 'kill it off' or disable it completely over time, as designed? And if of course, we also heed what Paul really said in verse 22.
Paul was preaching in a hostile environment and in fact stoned and left for dead. He returns to the same place and kept on preaching. His faith and mission was his life, and nothing would deter him in completing it. All believers should be as Paul as a great example of loving his God. In the process, he was so determined with enduring in faith to continue on in the works set before him for Christ and the Father, along with the many mental and physical persecutions from the world that hung around his neck and 'weighed' him down. He thus became more humble, meek, more susceptible and attracted to walking in his 'inner' life than his 'outer' life. Yes, he was helping crucify his outer man a little at a time.
Verse 22 is his summary statement to other disciples that they as they continued to preach they would certainly face trials and persecutions, even to death in the pursuit and completion of their goal for the Kingdom. And that continued faith and preaching .within a hostile environment would always result, in the end, in being in the Kingdom of God as their final place of rest and their prizegiven.
Today, less than 1 percent of believers would be or are confronted with physical death in displaying their strong beliefs of Christ to the world as in Paul's day and even many hundreds of years after him.
Today, most of our persecutions for the cause of the gospel and Christ is more sedated and mental, although they are real as Paul would also attest to it if he were alive today.
Persecutions and trials with a spouse, family, friends acquaintances, secular work even our physical health. Even within ourselves and the past baggage we might be carrying and should be shedding. Being in Christ is a struggle with all these elements, although we keep on keeping on in Christ. We know we are members of the Kingdom already and we await its full maturity in time and its new living.
Being a believer today since the first believer, and that would be Yahshua in his Father, is not meant to be a bed of roses and if our entire spirit is actually living in the Kingdom today. The world and self are enemies indeed although we cannot do our own works for salvation, to try and quicken and crucify the outer man before its time. That would be quite ironic indeed as we would be using the outer man to try and control it. Impossible and a futile idea. And actually we do not crucify the outer man, as if it is no more or does not exist. Whilst we are in these flesh clothes it will always be present. What happens when we focus more and more of the treasures of the Kingdom and on Christ, the real reason for our faith, we continue to disable the effects of the outer man by our focused 'inner' spiritual lives, over time. We cannot accelerate this process at all just by us. We need the presence and action of the Spirit to keep molding us into the image of his Son. This does take perseverance indeed.
There is no butterfly yet that has flown away. It still is in the larva caterpillar state or pupa state until after death. Then it truly will be free from the 'outer' man.
(Act 14:19) But there came Jews from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead.
(Act 14:20) But as the disciples stood around him, he rose up and entered into the city, and the next day he went with Barnabas to Derbe.
(Act 14:21) And when they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,
(Act 14:22) confirming the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.
One last thing...
And this 'fire' you believe as 2nd Baptism does not really exist IMO. It can be a dangerous idea that can actually lead one away from Christ into self-works of goodness and self-righteousness, and falling into the clutches of the outer carnal man.
This fire is one to cleanse our spirits and hearts and for us to grow stronger in faith through discipline and chastisement, to disable the 'outer' man more and more over time. These are the persecutions and trials I just spoke about and drawn from Paul's message and warning. This SHOULD BE and is part of a normal process for any true maturing believer in Christ Yahshua. They are not to 'sit' idle and wait for the Kingdom to come to them, they are to work within it today via the will of the Father and the spirit of the Son ONLY. Their metal must be tested over time to reveal the condition of their heart that revealed true sonship in the Kingdom.
There is no self-works that causes a new level or awareness to or 'into' Christ or causes a 2nd baptismal revolution or a new spiritual afterburner explosion to occur within us at all. We are already in Christ and are producing fruit of the Spirit. Each believer grows differently at different speeds in their walk in the spirit of their heart in Christ already.
Blessings...APAK
Yes but it's spoken of in many places in scripture, old and new testaments. Looking into the scriptures and going by the Jordan analogy, I am thinking of it as finally crossing over into resurrection life in the spirit. Elsewhere Jesus said, the kingdom of heaven is like a pearl of great price, that when a man found it he hid it in a field and then went and sold all he had to buy that field (we are that field, the pearl is hidden in the believer). Jesus also saying, if you lose your life (soul life/psuche) for my sake, you will find it. And this parable comes to mind:
Luk 14:27-33
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. (what the cost will be for that peace - seeing it as God/Christ being that mighty King who is coming against all that belongs to our old man flesh nature - if we surrender over the sovereign rule of our kingdom to Him...all the rule and rights to our entire heart/life, He will let us "live" - in resurrection life)
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Jesus the King is going after our complete and entire submission/surrender of our whole life/heart to Him, not just bits and pieces of it as we feel like it here and there, which is where most of us still are in truth. The scripture says it is through much tribulation we enter the kingdom of heaven. He is jealously going after our flesh nature with the fire of His jealousy....because He loves us and desires us to be wholly in union with Him, to take complete possession of our vessel.
God attempts to help our understanding since we're mere mortals seeing in a glass darkly and we might not always necessarily see everything completely perfectly. He lights the path unto our feet with His word, enough to get us where we need to be. I think in a nutshell the "work" we need to do is to follow and obey Jesus, as we are exhorted in scripture to do (that can mean different things in the details, for different people). And of course persecution/tribulation can come in many different forms, for example in the west up to now, it doesn't come in the form of physical violence as often as elsewhere in the world. But we're not running the race so as to beat the air - we have a real goal and like Jesus we endure for the joy that is set before us. Tribulation/chastisement is a baptism of fire is it not....God's fiery jealousy burning away the chaff of our life/heart. You know, it occurs to me that chaff is the hard outer covering of the corn of wheat within. When the old man/outer man is crucified so that the precious corn of wheat is unveiled (inner man/Christ in us), the Lord takes full possession of it. Deep calling unto deep....as it was in the days of Noah, it springs up like a fountain from beneath/within us while pouring down from above at the same time. It is all Christ....Christ within us the hope of glory and Christ above coming and pouring down upon us.
Is it possible to associate this parable with a different thought than a second Spirit baptism? Is there a reason to think this is specifically what Jesus meant?
As I've said, this feels more like disputing over words. I think we're both agreed that the Spirit's work in us is necessary for our growth. And that God works major transformations in our lives, and sometimes these can seem to come all at once in the power of the Spirit.
He is jealously going after our flesh nature with the fire of His jealousy...
Referencing my favorite promise . . .
Burn it all away!! All that does not glorify You! Instead of looking for that second Pentecost, it's in the tribulations.If it's that we're waiting for that Spirit touch when suddenly all our struggles are over and we are walking in the Spirit consistently, I don't mind looking for that, it's an amazing blessing, a gift with no downside. Well, except the ability to confer it to someone else. For that we must learn faith, so that we can train others in it.
What I've found is that while that sort of thing is wonderful, more wonderful is the truth that we can apprehend this in faith in Jesus, in the finished work of the cross, this life we desire.
I actually think you are right, that many believers walk in an inconsistent faith, and therefore live an inconsistent life. Not because they are waiting for that magic missing piece, but they've never been trained to understand what we have in Christ right now.
If we're waiting for our "second baptism" before we can overcome our flesh, we've already been baptized into Christ, and we have been crucified with Him. Sin has no power over us any longer.
He has promised. Let's us take ahold of His promises, and go on to maturity.
Much love!
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Unless you die . . . and go into the ground . . . baptized into Jesus Christ, into His death, buried with Him through baptism . . . Now live according to what God has done.
Much love!
What is the High Calling in Christ?
^ OP
Phil 3:
[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
I would say it is a calling TO ALL men OF this world, Earth, To Accept Gods OFFERING OF eternal Life, by, through, of Christ Jesus.
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life OF the world.
Glory to God,
Taken
^ OP
Phil 3:
[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
I would say it is a calling TO ALL men OF this world, Earth, To Accept Gods OFFERING OF eternal Life, by, through, of Christ Jesus.
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life OF the world.
Glory to God,
Taken
I speak of "training in faith" because we have been given faith, but we are not in the practice of using it. When we confront intimidating circumstances, we are not practiced in confronting them with truth, "God is in control, God loves me, God has promised all will work good for me". Like a muscle we exercise, we respond to afflictions with trust that nothing has changed, God still loves me. We acknowledge that we ourselves don't know what is right for us as God does, so we commit ourselves to His keeping, His care.
Mature faith rejoices in afflictions, knowing this is the mighty working of God bringing us into a more sure walk of faith.
Much love!
Mature faith rejoices in afflictions, knowing this is the mighty working of God bringing us into a more sure walk of faith.
Much love!
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