What is the name Father, which Jesus proclaimed within his life?

[MatthewG]

“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.“
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John 17:1-12 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he | King James Version (KJV) | Downloa

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he

bible.com

It couldn’t be Jesus? It would be Yahavah/Yahweh his God, and Father.

 

[Cassandra]

I think it means that Jesus kept His Father's children , as keeping them in trust to God.

 

[O'Darby]

I'm going to use the term "Godhead" to avoid the forbidden T discussion.

William Lane Craig makes a useful distinction between the "Ontological Godhead" and the "Economic Godhead."

The Economic Godhead is God's plan for human salvation as He has revealed it and as we experience and understand it, in which Jesus was the incarnation of one aspect (or person) of the Godhead revealed in terms of the Father, Son and Spirit.

The Ontological Godhead is the Godhead as it really is, beyond human comprehension. The terms Father, Son and Spirit don't apply.

When Jesus prayed, He was praying to the Ontological Godhead using the terminology of the Economic Godhead. Yahweh (YHWH) in Jewish theology wasn't the Father - He was the Ontological God in all His fullness. Jesus was praying to the Ontological Godhead, expressed by Him as Father because this is the distinction in the Economic Godhead as experienced and understood at the human level. He would not have used the term YHWH because this was too sacred to speak.

Craig makes the point - legitimately, I believe - that conflating the Economic Godhead with the Ontological Godhead is the source of a great deal of confusion.

In short, Jesus was praying to the Ontological Godhead using terminology of the Economic Godhead.

Somewhat heavy, but surely more accurate than thinking the Father's name is YHWH.

 

[MatthewG]

Psalm 83:18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth.

 

[MatthewG]

I'm going to use the term "Godhead" to avoid the forbidden T discussion.

William Lane Craig makes a useful distinction between the "Ontological Godhead" and the "Economic Godhead."

The Economic Godhead is God's plan for human salvation as He has revealed it and as we experience and understand it, in which Jesus was the incarnation of one aspect (or person) of the Godhead revealed in terms of the Father, Son and Spirit.

The Ontological Godhead is the Godhead as it really is, beyond human comprehension. The terms Father, Son and Spirit don't apply.

When Jesus prayed, He was praying to the Ontological Godhead using the terminology of the Economic Godhead. Yahweh (YHWH) in Jewish theology wasn't the Father - He was the Ontological God in all His fullness. Jesus was praying to the Ontological Godhead, expressed by Him as Father because this is the distinction in the Economic Godhead as experienced and understood at the human level. He would not have used the term YHWH because this was too sacred to speak.

Craig makes the point - legitimately, I believe - that conflating the Economic Godhead with the Ontological Godhead is the source of a great deal of confusion.

In short, Jesus was praying to the Ontological Godhead using terminology of the Economic Godhead.

Somewhat heavy, but surely more accurate than thinking the Father's name is YHWH.

Gotta get away from confusion. Confusion, is like a whirlpool in a deep sink hole within the ocean. Hate that.

 

[O'Darby]

Gotta get away from confusion. Confusion, is like a whirlpool in a deep sink hole within the ocean. Hate that.

Perhaps, but oversimplification of genuine mysteries is not the route to mature faith either. To say that Jesus is the "name" of the Son in the eternal Godhead, and that He was praying to a Father whose "name" is YHWH, is completely inconsistent with who Jesus was - a first-century Jew - and with what even the most fervent proponents of the T doctrine (including Craig) believe. You were the one who started a thread on the theme that the Father to whom Jesus prayed must be "named" YHWH, and this is simply conceptually and theologically untenable. You can tell yourself Jesus prayed to YHWH if it makes you happy, and tell yourself that this is "less confusing" than what Craig suggests, but IMO you're just kidding yourself. The Jews, including Jesus, understood YHWH as the fullness of God.

You say you "gotta get away" from confusion, but the numerous threads you start suggest you are drowning in confusion.

 

[Pearl]

Jesus called God Abba which means Daddy so we can call him Father or Daddy or something similar - because we have that intimate relationship with Him.

 

[simplefaith1]

Gotta get away from confusion. Confusion, is like a whirlpool in a deep sink hole within the ocean. Hate that.

As Jesus said:
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21

 

[MatthewG]

You say you "gotta get away" from confusion, but the numerous threads you start suggest you are drowning in confusion.

That is an assumption. I’m sure the man who talked with me last night about scripture was just as perplexed. Some people believe that Yahweh, or YHWH or YHVH. Is just unimportant or just so holy you can not use the name of the God of Israel. Everyone desires to stay at the “I Am” statement when later we have the Lord God reveal his name and desires for it to be known. Then as the man suggested. “There is no name under heaven which one is able to be saved expect through the Lord Yeshua.”

I get that, but Jesus taught a message of worshiping the Father, in spirit and truth, but who is the one whom Fathered the Word made flesh? There has to be some type of substance in order to get to to reality; or what is know as truth; at least as close as one can really get in knowing the True God, and the Lord Jesus is eternal life.

Yeshua, spoke saying “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

If it’s import to you or not? Is not a concern on my part in how you put your faith in practice… that is between you and the one whom adopted you as his Child.

To me, it’s highly important without the needed assumptions of myself drowning in confusion… I’m sure that man was confused to some degree by our conversation which was good between me and him to have, and sharing how it is seen in Genesis, with Yahavah speaking his Word which then created.

Paul, wrote in his first scroll or letter to the Corinthians, saying “yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

Important to you? I don’t know. May just need an apologetic rejection, to attesting from another person who just desires to suggest that Im out of my mind crazy, if it’s Crazy for others so be it, but if it coming from a sound mind (regardless of how odd or strange it could be to someone else) but if by the Spirit of Yahavah and his indwelling us now today, it is God who can tell us by the spirit if someone is going the wrong way.

Normally if one is going the wrong way, it takes us into darkness of hatred and bitter anger. Which is of the darkness and nothing of the light which comes from the true light which shines through those who allow Yeshuas spirit to come through, by the help of Yahavah Spirit in asking our Father, Yahavah, to help us, the LORD, whom was the one whom spoke and his Word created all things.

Cool things, and I’m not even religious, this stuff is just near to my heart, but it’s by Jesus and his righteousness which makes all right before Yahavah being able to have access through the Lord Yeshua… and the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation; delivering one from spiritual deadness, into spiritual life when they faithfully raise with Yeshua, in the heart having a changed mind towards the one whom you now choose to serve, “repentance - changing one’s mind.”

 

[MatthewG]

As Jesus said:
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21

That is interesting. The Spirit of God is what we should go by. Walking in spirit, and worshipping the Father in spirit and truth, as the Son of God suggested for those who would end up following him, his Father would seek for people to follow his directive.

It just depends on how important the words of Yeshua are to a person, who decides to follow and grow in knowing the True God, and the Lord Jesus.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus called God Abba which means Daddy so we can call him Father or Daddy or something similar - because we have that intimate relationship with Him.

He still has a name though. Whether or not it is important or not to you personally, is of course no effect in your faith in the Gospel, which is the power of God (Yahavah) unto Salvation.

 

[Wrangler]

Psalm 83:18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the LORD, are the Most High over all the earth.

REV renders it best:
18that they may know that you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth.

 

[APAK]

“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.“
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John 17:1-12 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he | King James Version (KJV) | Downloa

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he

bible.com

It couldn’t be Jesus? It would be Yahavah/Yahweh his God, and Father.

Matthew, as you and Wrangler already said, the Father is the one YHWH, the Most High. And the Son spoke to him, and only to him, the personal LORD of all who believe in him, as his Son believed his Father's Spirit possessed him not an abstract impersonal version of him.

The one person called YHWH is the one Father God, Is the 'fulness' or the sole divinity in existence, and there is no other. And YHWH cannot be dissected into pagan philosophical terms that can only produce an abstract impersonal fullness of an unknown god or man-made idol of worship.

Be warned, there are amongst us false teachers who attempt to divert attention away for the holy writ, the source of truth. They sometimes attempt to persuade us, to overpower our thoughts with chaotic pagan traditions of men and vain philosophies as truth, that they themselves know nothing about, or of its ramifications on others. In this case, making a carnal worldly attempt to replace YHWH our Father, into a god of two major components or views:

A fundamental, impersonal, godless father abstract of a primal inner nature that says he/it must exist in reality, even if not known in the mind, let alone within any human's spirit; and where this father's attributes or roles of the Spirit or as YHWH do not exist or apply at this core level of existence. And second, this father's simplistic 'person(s)' presentation found in scripture, for the sole purpose of our salvation, for our benefit, for common understanding, specifically toward NT Christians.
Do not be deceived even if they say that both views of this god should not be combined as it will cause confusion.

Even without their associations, it is chaos, And our God is not a God that is defines in a state of confusion.

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew, as you and Wrangler already said, the Father is the one YHWH, the Most High. And the Son spoke to him, and only to him, the personal LORD of all who believe in him, as his Son believed his Father's Spirit possessed him not an abstract impersonal version of him.

The one person called YHWH is the one Father God, Is the 'fulness' or the sole divinity in existence, and there is no other. And YHWH cannot be dissected into pagan philosophical terms that can only produce an abstract impersonal fullness of an unknown god or man-made idol of worship.

Be warned, there are amongst us false teachers who attempt to divert attention away for the holy writ, the source of truth. They sometimes attempt to persuade us, to overpower our thoughts with chaotic pagan traditions of men and vain philosophies as truth, that they themselves know nothing about, or of its ramifications on others. In this case, making a carnal worldly attempt to replace YHWH our Father, into a god of two major components or views:

A fundamental, impersonal, godless father abstract of a primal inner nature that says he/it must exist in reality, even if not known in the mind, let alone within any human's spirit; and where this father's attributes or roles of the Spirit or as YHWH do not exist or apply at this core level of existence. And second, this father's simplistic 'person(s)' presentation found in scripture, for the sole purpose of our salvation, for our benefit, for common understanding, specifically toward NT Christians.
Do not be deceived even if they say that both views of this god should not be combined as it will cause confusion.

Even without their associations, it is chaos, And our God is not a God that is defines in a state of confusion.

Don’t know what to think about all that.

 

[Wrangler]

Don’t know what to think about all that.

Allow me to assist. One of the basic means to steer us away from truth is to corrupt our basic means to determine truth, logic. Logic is the art of the non-contradictory identification of truth. It is based on the Law of Mutual Exclusivity. If something is in, it is not out. If something is up, it is not down, etc. Simple.

Regarding APAK's:

"Do not be deceived even if they say that both views of this god should ... be combined as it will cause confusion.​

Even without their associations, it is chaos, And our God is not a God that is defines in a state of confusion."​

The 2 views referenced are contradictory. Therefore, concluding both views to be the case, to be true, is illogical. Our God is a God of order, not a God of chaos. God does not require us to abdicate the basic means he gave us to determine truth to know him. Faith does NOT require rejecting logic.

There is only one true God (John 17:3), Jesus’ God (John 20:17, Rev 3:12), whose eternal name is YHWH (Ex 3:15, Debt 6:4-5) - who we relate to as Father (Mat 6:9, Eph 1:2, 1 COR 8:6). True worshippers only worship the Father (John 4:23).​

The use of the word "only" above is for emphasis. If I say I have one dollar, it is the same as saying I have ONLY one dollar. Those who reject logic admit that I might have one dollar (or one God) but claim that does not mean I have ONLY one dollar (or one God). No, that is what it means. Simple.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pearl]

He still has a name though. Whether or not it is important or not to you personally, is of course no effect in your faith in the Gospel, which is the power of God (Yahavah) unto Salvation.

he told Moses to say he was I Am.

 

[Spyder]

First of all, the larger problem with people today is:

Jn 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—

I don't see very often where people study scripture with their ears and eyes searching for Yahweh's truth. Most look for the Easy Button: meaning whatever the pastor or Sunday School teacher says. Even Apostle Paul had those who stayed on a diet of milk instead of meat. Then end result is thousands of denominations.

We do not have a God of Confusion:

1 Co 14:31–33 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

When we don't have peace, then our words are not of Yahweh - who alone is God.

Dt 32:6 Do you thus repay Yahweh, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?

Is 42:5–7. Thus says Yahweh God, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it: “I am Yahweh; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. (See John 1)

2 Sa 22:32 “For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God?

2 Ki 19:14–15 And Hezekiah prayed before Yahweh and said: “Yahweh, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

Neh 9:6 “You are Yahweh, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.

PS 83:18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth

Is 37:16 “O LORD of hosts Yahweh, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

Is 37:20 So now, our God Yahweh, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are the LORD.”

Is 42:8. I am Yahweh; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Is 44:8. Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”

Is 49:8-9 Thus says Yahweh: “In a time of favor I have answered you; in a day of salvation I have helped you; I will keep you and give you as a covenant to the people, to establish the land, to apportion the desolate heritages, saying to the prisoners, ‘Come out,’ to those who are in darkness, ‘Appear.’ They shall feed along the ways; on all bare heights shall be their pasture;

 

[Spyder]

he told Moses to say he was I Am.

If you know how to "search the scriptures," find out how many more "I am" statements exist there. There are many, and they don't mean Yahweh, our God.

 

[Wrangler]

he told Moses to say he was I Am.

That is his nature, being eternal. ("I am" is actually a bad translation. "I am eternal" is a better translation). What God was saying to Moses is differentiating him from all the other gods in the area. Moses is being sent by the eternal God.

But his nature is not his name. In the very next verse God stated what his actual name is. This is Language Usage and how we talk today ...If someone asks what I do for a living, I might say respond that I just changed jobs BEFORE actually answering the specific question. "Changing jobs" is not actually what I do for a living but puts what I do in context - even though context was not specifically asked for.

Why do you invoke God saying I am in Ex 3:14 but ignore God stating his actual name in Ex 3:15?

 

[Pearl]

If you know how to "search the scriptures," find out how many more "I am" statements exist there. There are many, and they don't mean Yahweh, our God.

Yes I know there are many 'I AM's' One being when Jesus answered his accusers with 'I AM'. But the one I mentioned is this one,

Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?” God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[a] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:13-15

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