What is the state of the dead in the afterlife?

[MatthewG]

 

[St. SteVen]

Did the Trinity come 'in the flesh'...or was God missing a member for awhile?

The Word was with God. The Word was God. The Word became flesh.

Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.

I want to discuss the Logos as what it means before the Logos became flesh. (and dwelt among us) In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God. (John 1:1) This tells three things about the Logos. 1) The Logos was from the beginning. 2) The Logos was with...

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[Aunty Jane]

Wow. I'm familiar with posters playing the God Card.
But you are playing the Devil card. - LOL

I don't know of any humans that don't understand our physical mortality.

Physical mortality is what humans experience, and we all know how final death is for that person if we have to go on living without them…..but nowhere does the Bible say that there is an immortal soul housed in that body to goes to another destination after physical death.

In the Jewish mind, physical death is all there was. Sheol was the place where all the dead “slept”, ready for their resurrection when Messiah’s kingdom ruled the earth. (John 5:28-29)

The devil has a vested interest in our belief about life after death because his first lie confidently stated that Eve would not die, even when God told her she would. She believed satan because he made the fruit look very attractive and questioned God’s motives in withholding it.

Did they die in the day they ate thereof? (not physically)
And did God tell Eve not to touch the fruit?

Are you familiar with 2 Peter 3:8-9?
”But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.” (ESV)

If a “day” to God is like a thousand of our years, look up the genealogies of all the humans listed in the Hebrew Scriptures…..the longest living man was Methuselah who lived for 969 years……not a single human lived for a thousand years…..so was God wrong in saying that they would die within his counting of a day?

The whole book is about what happens under the sun. Certainly a dead corpse knows nothing.

Yes, and for good reason…..the dead do not go anywhere else. Resurrection was a “sleep” in death….unconscious, without knowledge or ability to plan or to participate in the only life there was. (Eccl 9:5,6,10) Even their love and other emotions have “perished”…how can that be if they are still the person who died? Do the dead have no emotions?

Read John 11:11-14 and see what Jesus said about Lazarus…..where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him?
If he was in a better place, what was the purpose of bringing him back to this life, only to die again later from some other cause?

Why do people defend this doctrine so vehemently when scripture does not teach it, even when all false religion does?

Think about it……are we programmed for death? Or do we have no way to process death, because it was never supposed to happen? Dying and being out of existence does not sit well with our programming for everlasting life.
If the devil’s lie appealed to Eve, ask why it appeals to us? We simply cannot imagine not being here once we achieve adult consciousness. The Bible says that death is an “enemy”, not a friend.

If dying takes us to a better life…why do we grieve? Shouldn’t we be rejoicing when a loved one has gone on to “be with the Lord”? Isn’t that the thought that softens the sense of loss? And doesn’t the idea that we will be together again one day, carry us through our grief?

The resurrection hope gives us comfort too, but immortality of the soul puts the dead in a place where they can apparently see all that is going on with us here on the earth. If they can observe what we are doing and see the mistakes we make, and the awful things that happen on this earth….and they can do nothing to stop it….how could heaven ever be a happy place?

Isn’t it kinder to have the dead “sleep”, blissfully unaware of anything that is going on in this world….and at their resurrection it will be just like awakening from a restful sleep. Time stands still in the grave.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Gospel Theology, is the first sign that a Cult is born or a heretic is preaching/teaching.

And yet it was the assignment that Jesus gave to his disciples before he returned to his Father in heaven….

“And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (ESV)

Jesus was foremost a preacher and teacher….so was Paul.

So what is the first sign that heresy has taken over?…..the truth is buried under a mountain of false teachings….the devil makes them look like the truth because he is a mimic. The counterfeit “Christianity” he sowed in the world, is a muddle of conflicting beliefs, designed to confuse people and to create divisions among the so called “body of Christ”.
A dismembered body is of no use to anyone. The Christ does not exist divided….there is not more than one truth.

You are just like everyone else here, telling your version of things like you cannot be wrong….no one can tell you otherwise because you have convinced yourself that you alone teach the correct “theology”….yet you retain all the old Catholic foundational beliefs as if they were ever true….? Like all the rest who support a three headed god, immortality of the soul, and hellfire…..none of which find support in the Bible.
If these are the foundations of your belief system, then it is “built on sand”…..and when the storm comes (and it is immanent) these will collapse, and the whole building will fall in ruins.

The judge will arrive and he will determine who is a teachable “sheep” and who is a stubborn “goat”.
His decision is the only one that matters.

 

[St. SteVen]

nowhere does the Bible say that there is an immortal soul housed in that body to goes to another destination after physical death.

Ecclesiastes Nine says, "in the realm of the dead, where you are going"
That is another destination.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither
working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

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[St. SteVen]

@Aunty Jane
I think we are going in circles here. Thanks for your participation though.
I'll give you the last word.

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[Aunty Jane]

Ecclesiastes Nine says, "in the realm of the dead, where you are going"
That is another destination.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither
working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Here it is from the Jewish Tanakh…..

”10 Whatever your hand attains to do [as long as you are] with your strength, do; for there is neither deed nor reckoning, neither knowledge nor wisdom in the grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

“The grave“ is where all are going……calling it “the realm of the dead” reflects the adoption of belief in an immortal soul……picked up from Greek culture which had a huge influence on the world it dominated.
This belief is found in all false religion, but not found at all in Jewish Scripture. It was adopted from outside of Scripture.

Solomon lived at a time before that adopted Greek influence. And we know that Israel’s last prophet, Malachi, was God’s final attempt to correct his disobedient people before he would send his son as Messiah. Some 300 years would elapse…..plenty of time for the rot to really set in.

The son of God was not sent to the corrupt Jewish leaders as these had already proven to be unfaithful and negligent shepherds….Jesus was sent to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” who were lost because their shepherds were intractable in their ways and teachings. (Matt 15:7-9)

An English translation is not as accurate as those who speak the original language. I’ll take the Jewish version over the NIV.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane
I think we are going in circles here. Thanks for your participation though.
I'll give you the last word.

It’s not my words that count…..the last word will come from our appointed judge….his opinion of what we have accepted as truth, is all that matters….

 

[Behold]

And yet it was the assignment that Jesus gave to his disciples before he returned to his Father in heaven….

“And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations,

Jesus spoke of water baptism, and "nations"., and "making disciples". IN Mark 16

Later when Paul was called by Jesus to present the Gospel and give the Body of Christ the Church Doctrine, , He gave us The Gospel, that is not "repent and get wet"......
Paul Gospel is "The Gospel of the Grace of God, that creates CHRISTIANS.. who believe it.

See, a disciple is simply a follower of Christ....and may not be A Christian.

Whereas a Christian is born again, as a Son-Daughter of God, and that is much much more then just being a disciple,,...... and no Water baptism is necessary to become a Christian.

Jesus was foremost a preacher and teacher….so was Paul.

When Jesus came to the Jews.......>He came as their Messiah, and had not died on The Cross, so He could not offer Himself as Savior and sin bearer during his 3.5 yrs of dealing with the "house of Israel"...... as He had not died on The Cross yet.

When Paul was called by Jesus, Paul offered Jesus On The Cross, as our Savior., and this offer is to the WORLD< and not just to the Jews. (House of Israel).

So things Changed once Yeshua was crucified. And after He was crucified He didnt return to his Ministry for the Jew., as His Crucifixion, created a NEW Covenant and THE Gospel that Paul teaches is the "Preaching of The Cross"... "Justification by faith'"... "Grace through Faith..... "All that call on the name fo Jesus, shall be saved"... "according to God's mercy He saved us"..."while we were yet sinners".

"""to them that worketh NOT....but believeth on GOD.. who Justifies the UNGODLY........our FAITH is counted as Rightoueness""".

Galatians 3:26

Amplified Bible
For you [who are born-again have been reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified and] are all children of God [set apart for His purpose with full rights and privileges] = Through FAITH in Christ Jesus.

Berean Standard Bible
You are all sons of God Through Faith in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
For you are all sons of God Through Faith in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
For ye are all the children of God BY Faith in Christ Jesus.

New King James Version
For you are all sons of God Through Faith in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
For you are all sons and daughters of God Through FAITh in Christ Jesus.

So what is the first sign that heresy has taken over?…..the truth is buried under a mountain of false teachings.

What i previously posted is that if the Gospel being preached / taught ...is not correct, then the person and their denomination, are not related to the True Gospel., so that is a fail-proof indicator that they are OF a Cult Theology.
See, its the CORRECT Gospel that presents the offer of Salvation......so, if a person or a denomination has that WRONG, then you stay away from them and their denonination, as they are a heretic and their denomination is going to be the same = as it produced them.

You are just like everyone else here, telling your version of things like you cannot be wrong…

I only teach Paul's Theology...>His Doctrine., and its very specific.