WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[GodsGrace]

This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

There might be other understandings that are not listed.

I tend to go with either natural birth or baptismal water.
Either can seem correct to me.

Please state what you believe and why.
Appreciated...

 

[Hepzibah]

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27

'Some scholars link the verse to Ezekiel 36:25-27, where God promises to cleanse his people with water and give them a new heart and spirit. This reinforces the idea of a spiritual transformation where God removes sin and replaces it with a new, God-centered nature.'

• I wonder if this is where water baptism came from, as a sign of Spirit baptism, rather than the common belief that it is connected to the flood .
  

 

[3 Resurrections]

This is John 3:5 NASB
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless * one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.


Some believe water to be:
The word of God
Baptismal water
Natural birth

The answer is none of the above. And the meaning of this verse is very simple. It involves the correct interpretation of the little Greek word "kai" which has mistakenly been translated as "AND" in this verse.

"Kai" can have various meanings. It can be used as a conjunction meaning "in addition to" (as many translations mistakenly interpret it in this case), OR it can also be used in an explanatory sense, meaning "namely" or "even", which is the case in this John 3:5 verse. In other words, this verse can justifiably be translated as follows: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water, NAMELY (kai) the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This identifies the "water" as being the equivalent of the "Spirit".

Do we have other texts which also indicate that this is so? Yes, we do, and in the words of Christ Himself in John 7:38-39 as He addressed the multitude on the last day of the feast. "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

The evidence that one has been born of the Spirit is the presence of the "rivers of living water" that flow from the individual.

"WATER" = "THE SPIRIT" They are one and the same thing in John 3:5 and also in John 7:38-39.

 

[GodsGrace]

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27

'Some scholars link the verse to Ezekiel 36:25-27, where God promises to cleanse his people with water and give them a new heart and spirit. This reinforces the idea of a spiritual transformation where God removes sin and replaces it with a new, God-centered nature.'

• I wonder if this is where water baptism came from, as a sign of Spirit baptism, rather than the common belief that it is connected to the flood .

I agree.
The flood is a type of shadow about baptism, but what you have posted makes much more sense.
Ezekiel 36:25-27 persons will be cleaned with water just as in the NT persons are cleansed from all sin.

Water is also used for physical cleansing:

2 Kings 5:10-14
10 Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, "Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh will be restored to you and you will be clean."
11 But Naaman was furious and went away and said, "Behold, I thought, 'He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.'
12 "Are not Abanah and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?" So he turned and went away in a rage.
13 Then his servants came near and spoke to him and said, "My father, had the prophet told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much * more * then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean '?"
14 So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child and he was clean.


Jesus did the same:

John 9:5-7
5 "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."
6 When He had said this, He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and applied the clay to his eyes,
7 and said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam " (which is translated, Sent ). So he went away and washed, and came back seeing.


So water cleanses.
Just as John the Baptist baptized to cleanse from sin.

Thanks!

 

[GodsGrace]

The answer is none of the above. And the meaning of this verse is very simple. It involves the correct interpretation of the little Greek word "kai" which has mistakenly been translated as "AND" in this verse.

"Kai" can have various meanings. It can be used as a conjunction meaning "in addition to" (as many translations mistakenly interpret it in this case), OR it can also be used in an explanatory sense, meaning "namely" or "even", which is the case in this John 3:5 verse. In other words, this verse can justifiably be translated as follows: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water, NAMELY (kai) the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." This identifies the "water" as being the equivalent of the "Spirit".

Understood.
But this presents a problem (maybe not).

I agree that kai can mean EVEN,,,which I would understand the verse in John 3.5 to mean unless one is born of WATER, WHICH IS SPIRIT,
he cannot enter the Kingdom.

IOW,,,Water and Spirit are the SAME.
The water IS the Spirit.
Correct?

So isn't saying that one must be born of water kai spirit saying spirit twice??
"one must be born of spirit which is spirit".

Do we have other texts which also indicate that this is so? Yes, we do, and in the words of Christ Himself in John 7:38-39 as He addressed the multitude on the last day of the feast. "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

OK, agreed.

The evidence that one has been born of the Spirit is the presence of the "rivers of living water" that flow from the individual.

"WATER" = "THE SPIRIT" They are one and the same thing in John 3:5 and also in John 7:38-39.

I understand, but I think this is saying SPIRIT 2 times.

Please clarify.

PS or are you referring to baptism?

 

[3 Resurrections]

IOW,,,Water and Spirit are the SAME.
The water IS the Spirit.
Correct?

Yes, the "water" in John 3:5 and the "living water" in John 7:38-39 are both used as a symbolic metaphor for the Holy Spirit which dwells forever within a believer. It's just as Romans 8:11 tells us: "...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." It does NOT say, "Now if any man never got water baptized, He is none of His." Of course, water baptism is a rite that professing Christians should perform as a testimony to others of their already-existing faith in Christ. But that act of baptism is not what initiates the birth of that individual into the family of God. That is the Holy Spirit's work alone, which Christ compared to the "living water" of a never-ending spring that comes to dwell within a person, and flows out from them, after they have been born of the Spirit.

Here is another example of how that little word "kai" should be used in an explanatory sense. Try Revelation 1:5-6. "Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God AND (kai) his Father." This little word "kai" should be translated "...unto God, EVEN or NAMELY His Father". Otherwise, it sounds as if there is God, and then another additional God called the "Father" being spoken about.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, the "water" in John 3:5 and the "living water" in John 7:38-39 are both used as a symbolic metaphor for the Holy Spirit which dwells forever within a believer. It's just as Romans 8:11 tells us: "...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." It does NOT say, "Now if any man never got water baptized, He is none of His." Of course, water baptism is a rite that professing Christians should perform as a testimony to others of their already-existing faith in Christ. But that act of baptism is not what initiates the birth of that individual into the family of God. That is the Holy Spirit's work alone, which Christ compared to the "living water" of a never-ending spring that comes to dwell within a person, and flows out from them, after they have been born of the Spirit.

Here is another example of how that little word "kai" should be used in an explanatory sense. Try Revelation 1:5-6. "Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God AND (kai) his Father." This little word "kai" should be translated "...unto God, EVEN or NAMELY His Father". Otherwise, it sounds as if there is God, and then another additional God called the "Father" being spoken about.

Did you consider what I stated in my post?
Does this make John 3.5 sound as if Jesus is saying a person must be born of spirit and spirit??

Also, I'd like to add that John the Baptist stated that after him would come one that would baptize with FIRE and SPIRIT.
Jesus said to baptize all in the Great Commission.
Baptize has the word WATER in it.
So John's would be a baptism of forgiveness and Jesus' would be a baptism of Spirit.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Did you consider what I stated in my post?
Does this make John 3.5 sound as if Jesus is saying a person must be born of spirit and spirit??

No, it doesn't double up the word "spirit" two times. John was explaining that a person must be born of water EVEN (kai) of the Spirit, in order to see the kingdom of God. John was defining for us and his first-century audience exactly what he meant by using the word "water" in his own statement.

The strictly-observant Jews were always baptizing something or another: cups, pots, vessels, and even tables, and themselves every time they returned home from shopping in public. They had almost a water fetish in going overboard in their attempts to be super "clean" according to the law. John was taking that strict Jewish idolizing of "water" itself and giving it a new meaning - that is, making it a metaphor for the identity of the Holy Spirit, which was the only thing necessary for true holiness within.