WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[David in NJ]

Very interesting catch there David

Indeed John spoke about Nicodemus before he spoke of baptism of the Spirit.

However, we have to remember that John is writing many years after Jesus had ascended.
I don't think everything in the NT is precisely in time-order.

However, I do tend to agree that the water is natural birth.....the flesh is born -
and then a SECOND birth is necessary.....the one of our spirit.

imho = the Holy Spirit directed John with the Highest Precision of Understanding from the very beginning in chapter 1

There is a flow of Truth in the Gospel of John that distinguishes it from the other gospels.
All Four gospels are the SAME Gospel that SAVES us.

if God permits i will right a book on this understanding that begins in Genesis

It is not new revelation but rather understanding of that which is written that the Holy Spirit desires us to SEE and Rejoice in.

You already picked UP on a part of it.

SHALOM

 

[GodsGrace]

imho = the Holy Spirit directed John with the Highest Precision of Understanding from the very beginning in chapter 1

There is a flow of Truth in the Gospel of John that distinguishes it from the other gospels.
All Four gospels are the SAME Gospel that SAVES us.

if God permits i will right a book on this understanding that begins in Genesis

It is not new revelation but rather understanding of that which is written that the Holy Spirit desires us to SEE and Rejoice in.

You already picked UP on a part of it.

SHALOM

John certainly is different from the other, synoptic, gospels.
It's my favorite, as I'm sure it is of many Christians.
If you really get this book done...let us know.

 

[mailmandan]

I certainly do see how it fits and I didn't say it doesn't.
This interpretation was listed in my OP and some theologians do believe the water is the word.

BUT,,,I might have asked this already,,,,HOW do you explain that if the water is the word it's like saying SPIRT 2X.

In John 7:37-39, which you posted above, Jesus says that rivers of living water will flow out of the heart...
then in verse 39 it states that Jesus spoke this about the Spirit.

So doesn't it make sense that the water is the Spirit?? (instead of the word).

And IF it IS the Spirit isn't that like saying that one must be born of spirit and the spirit??

Just thinking out loud.

The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Water baptism can only reach the flesh. It cannot cleanse the heart from sin.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Water baptism can only reach the flesh. It cannot cleanse the heart from sin.

But the blood OF JESUS sure can . it reaches to the inner conscious .
Now lift those hands , cause IT BE LORD PRAISING and LORD THANKING time in the building .

 

[Fred J]

I don't know why specifically why Jesus mentioned being born again 2X in John 3:3 and 3:5...
however, I do know that when Jesus said something twice He was bringing attention to it or announcing that He was going to say something very important. For instance when He said "verily, verily I say...."

If you know why, please tell.

Should i call you Mary, but GodsGrace is fine, because i can picture you like Mary sitting down beside Jesus and listening to what the Kingdom of GOD is like.

Hilarious in a good way because it happens in many households, Martha chose to cook the best meal for Jesus and His disciples. The preparation and cooking became challenging and tiresome for Martha, even to the point tormented why Mary is not helping me, and end up complaining to the Lord.
And in return the Lord coolly corrected Martha and commented Mary, naturally i felt sorry for Martha and disappointed with Mary, but Jesus spiritually is always 'just'.
i believe Jesus is not all about food, for He's obedient to His FATHER and does HIS will 24/7, overwhelming right?
This is because at the well with the Samaritan woman, disciples felt sorry that He must be hungry, went to the town to get Him a 'Kebab', figuratively speaking.
But He just answered, 'My food is to do My FATHER's will.' (It went completely silent..........) This reminds me the song, 'Imagine'.
When i was babes in Christ lamb, i taught when i meet Jesus, i want to talk and question, but when am a sheep, will i be 'dumbstruck' at His present?

Sorry to get side track there, let's get back to the FATHER's business, thank you.

Why did Jesus spoke of it 'twice', interesting, generally i had to come across passages few times until light bulb lights up.

Acceptable according to you, He's making a strong point and want that point to get through to the listeners, bravo!

That's one thing, yes He said, "If you have ears, listen and pay attention." (not the natural ears but the spiritual one after becoming born again)

Twice is not a repetition, but He's making two very string points, that, there are two stages of becoming born from above.

First stage, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be 'born again', he cannot 'see' the kingdom of GOD." (verse 3)

Second stage, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be 'born of water and of the Spirit', he cannot 'enter' into the Kingdom of GOD."

Do you see and perceive the amazing hidden secrets in the word of GOD?

Here's how it was for me and I believe we all have a different experience.
When I was a new Christian I was just so thankful to God for letting me know His Son and I saw everything in a new light.
As I grew and time passed it became easier and easier to make choices that would please God.
Some may find it easier to be pleasing to God and some may find it more difficult...

I believe the important aspect of this is that we're doing our best, and God knows if we're doing our best.
We can trick man, but we cannot trick God.

As long as we love God and give our best effort to please Him,,,I believe we're in safe hands.
And I also believe that we are unable to do anything until the Holy Spirit directs us and when HE directs us it become simple...
or, at least, more simple/easy.

And our flesh will always come into conflict with our spirit....
so we ask forgiveness and carry on, and do not dwell on whatever it is we've done.
Every Christian experiences this....hence, the Holy Spirit,,,our helper.

Shalom to you!

You're right, your experience is different from mine and mine from yours, agreed.

Yes, when i was babes in Christ lamb it was much more easier, and now am a sheep it's getting harder to stand on my faith.

Am too full of confession and excuses, but the word of GOD(double edged sword) cuts through to the depths of one's very heart, and am without excuse...

Words like, 'You sins are forgiven sin no more, or something worst shall come upon you.'

'Be ye perfect as your FATHER in heaven is perfect.'

'Those who hear My words and does them, liken unto a wise builder who place his house on the rock, and compare to the one who does not.'

'Those who obey My commandments truly love Me, and the one obey not, love Me not.'

Many more and i can become tired and weary of my incompetent to sustain on that foundation.

It's like a judge who's wise in every judgement of his, but in his personal life he's lawless and corrupt.

Shame on me, sorry to get emotional back there, am cool back now......., may the good GOD the FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ help us all.

Times are getting harder for our faith, 'Lawlessness shall increase and people will be going to and fro.'

They'll be lovers of themselves, violent, unpeaceable, haughty ect,

Jesus said pray to the FATHER that HE helps us escape tribulation, is not like He'll remove us from the tribulation but help us get trough.

i hope it was worthwhile for you and may GOD bless you in Jesus name, shalom!

 

[Fred J]

However, I do tend to agree that the water is natural birth.....the flesh is born -
and then a SECOND birth is necessary.....the one of our spirit.

Ciao, is this your perception in regards to verse 5, am bit taken back?

You mean that the water bag in the mother womb where the baby is, of that is the natural water birth Jesus is speaking about in verse 5?

Perhaps am wrong?

Based on the New Testament scripture in context, i perceive it the following way.

Baptism of natural water on earth, i go in and come out the water and have done it in 'faith'. (and not that anything magical transformation will happen to me)

In faith the water symbolize the ground, where am burying my old self-centered person and resurrect a new creature/person.

And in faith the Spirit symbolize a figure, now am a child of GOD, He's my Helper and Comforter who will descend and reside in me.

And the fire symbolize the tongue, as how the Apostles received on the day of Pentecost to proclaim the Gospel and make disciple of all nation.

Jesus the Master Himself was baptized in the river Jordan and when He came out of the water, the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove, descended on Him.

Aren't we suppose to 'imitate' our Master, who's disciples were also water baptizing others after that, till the book of Acts?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[pandaflower]

I think the water in that verse is Holy Spirit.
John 4:14

 

[JohnDB]

Hi John
Thanks so much!
I seem to remember that we might have discussed this quite some years ago on the other forum.
I remember that BORN FROM ABOVE is what was being dicussed as opposed to being BORN AGAIN.
Translation error if I remember right.
The above would really limit who could be born from above...
except that we become our own priests, as you explained.

So one had to be "declared" from heaven,,,from above....born from above...
after he also had completed his task.

Great post !

Well,
You didn't have to be named specifically as in Nicodemus's case or like the Apostles.

And as far as the Priesthood of Every Believer....fairly common Evangelical/Protestant theological belief. One that keeps the Catholics and Evangelicals from re-uniting once again under the same umbrella.

It's those American Catholics that are the problem....the rest of the World's Catholics are OK with the Evangelical's theology.
"Winds of Doctrine " are radically different in every corner of the world. I've found it fascinating myself.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. Water baptism can only reach the flesh. It cannot cleanse the heart from sin.

John said there will be one that baptizes with fir and spirit.

The difference between John's baptism and Jesus' baptism is the same difference found in
the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant.

The requirements are the same.
The method is different.

In the Mosaic Covenant it depended on the obedience by ONLY man's will.
In the New Covenant is depends on the working of the Holy Spirit in the heart.

Jesus said our righteousness must be GREATER than that of the Pharisees.
Matthew 5:20
20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I believe it's very important to understand what Jesus meant by this.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well,
You didn't have to be named specifically as in Nicodemus's case or like the Apostles.

And as far as the Priesthood of Every Believer....fairly common Evangelical/Protestant theological belief. One that keeps the Catholics and Evangelicals from re-uniting once again under the same umbrella.

Interesting...
The CC here does teach that we are each a priest.
Of course they don't really explain what that means, to the laity...
some bible study would be nice.

I used to go to a good study with a Catholic monk, for about 12 years, (boy time flies by)...but he stopped with Covid and never restarted the program...too bad, there was a nice little group too. He'd mention Mary every now and then, but nothing that would cause any debate and what he taught was all biblical.

But the local CC here, which is all I really have avx to me, has attempted to do some type of bible study, but the outcome is not good and many stop going. I know why - I THINK I know why - but too much to get into.

It's those American Catholics that are the problem....the rest of the World's Catholics are OK with the Evangelical's theology.
"Winds of Doctrine " are radically different in every corner of the world. I've found it fascinating myself.

Just look at the difference with the Bishops in Germany.
They should start their own religion.
And Francis didn't help any.
He left a mess.

Wandering from the bible is always dangerous.