What is wrong with Biblical prophecy?

[Lunar]

(tim_from_pa;56733)
Now, for the first half. There is nothing wrong with my calculations. As a matter of fact, I derived them myself and to my surprise it agreed with others later on when I compared them. The whole pivotal point of your argument is whether or not there is a 360-day prophetic year. Of course I believe this, but I'm going to let you hang on that one. The reason is simply this: if there is a 360 day prophetic year, then these calculations show the exact date. If there is not, then it's "coincidence". It'll let you have that uncertainty so that truth does not smack you too much in the face. But let's face it..... the argument for or against Daniel's prophecy hangs on the balance of the 360-day year. IMO, the only straw a skeptic has left is to dispute that idea of a 360-day year. Again, I will let you have that. But for myself, I am convinced. I have my sources.
There is simply too much fuzzy, unsubstantiated guesswork in the math for me to be convinced by it. In order to buy into this theory, we must accept as premises thatA) When Daniel says weeks he is in fact referring to years, even though the Jews very clearly understood the distinction between these two.

These years are 360 days rather than 365, even though at no point in the rest of the Bible have the Jews used a 360-day prophetic year and it would in fact render other prophecies in the bible nonsensical to do so.C) The last week of the prophecy, even though it never happened, doesn't matter for some reason.These are three very large and unfounded premises. Now if you accept enough random redefinitions of what time means, you can render any prophecy coherent and say it isn't "coincidence." You could start saying that any part of a prophecy that wasn't fulfilled is just referring to an arbitrary point in the future, even. But that isn't suggested anywhere in history or in the bible. It's just one's own conjecture. Even if I accept premise A, Daniel's prophecy is, by any reasonable standard, off by many years. That, coupled with the huge number of other unfulfilled prophecies in Daniel, and the rest of the bible, and in particular the fact that Daniel's "prophecies" somehow all came true up til 167 BC (when the book was written) and then started to all fail afterwards, leads me to believe that Daniel and the other writers of the bible were not gifted with prophetic ability.Heck, Daniel is the only example the apologetic can muster of an exact date mentioned in biblical prophecy, so even if it were accurate the sheer number of other botched prophecies in the bible would leave me to believe it was an anomaly. When you need to start introducing these random notions of "prophetic years" and all the other guesswork involved, I am even more unconvinced.

 

[jeffhughes]

(Lunar;56744)
A) When Daniel says weeks he is in fact referring to years, even though the Jews very clearly understood the distinction between these two.

These years are 360 days rather than 365, even though at no point in the rest of the Bible have the Jews used a 360-day prophetic year and it would in fact render other prophecies in the bible nonsensical to do so.C) The last week of the prophecy, even though it never happened, doesn't matter for some reason.
And don't forget) That Jesus did, indeed, die in AD 33.Scholars aren't entirely sure when he died - it was somewhere between AD 26 and 36 (during the reign of Pontius Pilate). Now, there are certain years in there where the Passover falls on a Friday, which are 27, 33, 36, and possibly 30. So we don't know for sure when he died. I am thinking that the reason most cite AD 33 is simply because this prophecy of Daniel, calculated in this way, comes up with AD 33. But at any rate...just thought I'd throw in another assumption for you guys to deal with

 

[tim_from_pa]

A) When Daniel says weeks he is in fact referring to years, even though the Jews very clearly understood the distinction between these two.

These years are 360 days rather than 365, even though at no point in the rest of the Bible have the Jews used a 360-day prophetic year and it would in fact render other prophecies in the bible nonsensical to do so.C) The last week of the prophecy, even though it never happened, doesn't matter for some reason.
I'll give some hints to each one....a) Then ask yourself this. If the city was to be built the first 7 weeks, you think that's literal? Even someone making a bogus prophecy would not make such a ridiculous claim and suggests that 7 weeks stands for another period of time.

You need to know your bible more before making such a claim---- the 360 days in a year is an insider thing. Just because you are not convinced does not mean that it does not exist. You are just oblivious to the usage. Here's a clue..... How many degrees in a circle? And where did that come from? Here's some biblical numbers: time, times and the dividing of time (i.e. 3.5), 1260 days, 42 months.... written several places. Now why do you think these numbers come up?c) The last week did not happen yet.... there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week, but that did not happen yet and is another subject by itself. The prince that it talks about in the 70th week is not Christ.Again, I see skeptics wanting to interpret and define God and his word by their terms instead of the way that it was supposed to be interpreted by the writers.And again, the whole basis of the prediction of Messiah rests on the 360 day year.And BTW, if you want to mince with 360 vs 365, then be my guest. That only varies the outcome by something like 7 years anyway. You know any other Jewish Messiahs in that tight span of history? Like our other friend said, theologians wrestle with the actual year of his death. But from Daniel's end up to the time of Christ the calendar was not corrupted and the NT writers and witnesses saw that the time was fulfilled.I think this is all so clear, but then again that may not be clear for everyone. Probably it's the science and math in me (like Sir Isaac Newton). I just state things straightforward and pragmatically. But no one can fault the calculations at least. The whole skeptical point is weakly hanging by the thread of the 360 day year interpretation controversy. Sever that thread, and the whole rebuttal falls into the flames and we see that the prophecy does take us into 33AD.

 

[Lunar]

(tim_from_pa;56749)
a) Then ask yourself this. If the city was to be built the first 7 weeks, you think that's literal? Even someone making a bogus prophecy would not make such a ridiculous claim and suggests that 7 weeks stands for another period of time.
Am I to understand that you are claiming that it is ridiculous that a prophecy in the bible would foretell something miraculous?(tim_from_pa)
Here's a clue..... How many degrees in a circle? And where did that come from?
Again, the Jews used the 354-day lunar calendar, so bringing in a circle's degrees is completely besides the point. The best you can do is imply that the Babylonians knew that 360 was close to the number of days in a year.(tim_from_pa)
c) The last week did not happen yet.... there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week
How, exactly, is this at all implied by the text?(tim_from_pa)
Again, I see skeptics wanting to interpret and define God and his word by their terms instead of the way that it was supposed to be interpreted by the writers.
"The way it was supposed to be interpreted by the writers" is exactly the subject of our dispute. Let's not presume too much.(tim_from_pa)
And BTW, if you want to mince with 360 vs 365, then be my guest. That only varies the outcome by something like 7 years anyway. You know any other Jewish Messiahs in that tight span of history?
Actually, it's extremely important, because this would place the seventieth week between 40-47 AD. We know Jesus died within the reign of Pontius Pilate, which ended several years before that in 36 AD. That's not a matter of Daniel being "a few years off" - it makes his prophecy completely incompatible with known history concerning Jesus' crucifixion under Pilate.(tim_from_pa)
I think this is all so clear, but then again that may not be clear for everyone. Probably it's the science and math in me (like Sir Isaac Newton).
Yes, you are brilliant like Isaac Newton, and I am incapable of fathoming your logic because I'm bad at science and math, apparently.(tim_from_pa)
The whole skeptical point is weakly hanging by the thread of the 360 day year interpretation controversy. Sever that thread, and the whole rebuttal falls into the flames and we see that the prophecy does take us into 33AD.
"Weakly hanging?" The burden of proof is on you, and you have yet to offer a compelling reason to believe that the 70 weeks actually refer to 70 360-day years. The Jews used a lunar calendar, not an inflexible 360-day one, so the fact that you claim that the position that the Jews weren't using 360-day years here is a weak one is a bit baffling to me.What seems like a "weak point" to me is that you are citing the prophecy of Daniel - a prophecy which, even within the three verses we're focusing on, let alone the rest of the book, contains predictions which were not fulfilled - as evidence for Christianity. You are telling me that the seventieth week inexplicably jumps forward thousands of years, you are brushing off the failure of Antiochus Epiphanes to be miraculously slain by God, and you are ignoring the obvious discrepancy in Daniel's prophetic accuracy before and after 167 BC. I consider these to be problems which put the prophetic credibility of the bible in serious trouble. So, as I said before - Daniel, even though it doesn't, could have accurately predicted the date of Jesus' death and it still would have come off as the one bullseye out of a thousand darts thrown blind.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Lunar:You're grabbing at straws and effectively repeated everything you just said earlier. I've answered everything all ready. You are debating a point about the calendar that no serious theologian denies. Try Googling the 360-day year. This fact is so well known that even before the Internet I was well aware of it and someone arguing that will be bordering on looking either foolish or naive.If you want to dispute this, then try another angle. Frankly, you know that the calculations are faultless. Skeptics always want to be shown direct proof. When some is presented, there's doubt anyway which only shows to me that the starting point is with a preconceived notion and trying to prove it false.

 

[Lunar]

(tim_from_pa;56771)
You're grabbing at straws and effectively repeated everything you just said earlier. I've answered everything all ready. You are debating a point about the calendar that no serious theologian denies. Try Googling the 360-day year. This fact is so well known that even before the Internet I was well aware of it and someone arguing that will be bordering on looking either foolish or naive.
I'm repeating what I said earlier because you didn't address it. No civilization in history has used an inflexible 360-day calendar which did not account for its discrepancy from the solar year in one way or another (like adding an extra month every six years).And there is even another presupposition which you make here which is unfounded - that the starting date was 444 BC. The declaration could have also been in 458 BC by Emperor Artaxerxes authorizing Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem's temple.I'm not impressed by your appeals to authority or ad hominem attacks. If you want to debate this, then do it on your own terms, and not by calling me "foolish."(tim_from_pa)
When some is presented, there's doubt anyway which only shows to me that the starting point is with a preconceived notion and trying to prove it false.
Please, spare me your pretentious psychoanalysis. I subject Christianity to the same scrutiny I do every other belief.Honestly your arrogance is becoming a little insufferable. In this thread you have called me a slob, a spoiled brat, foolish, naive, and implied that I was simply too dumb to find your logic intuitive because you had a superior mathematical brain. Your condescension towards skeptics is palpable. Do you realize how distasteful your comments are?Again: I would like to believe that Christians are not self-righteous, so you could start by setting a better example.

 

[tim_from_pa]

OK.... Here's some new math. I was wrong about the 360 day year. Let's use a solar year of 365.25 approx as all calendars intercalate as you would expect. Therefore I am going on your terms. And let's not drop the last (70th) week.... after all, I may be mistaken as some Christians believe that all 70 weeks have passed. Again, I am going on your terms. Lastly, I agree that the date of the decree is in dispute, but I won't question your research. 458BC it is.Let's plug that in:-458+490+1=33AD. Hmmmmmm. Seems like the writer had his bases covered no matter what way we figure it.

 

[Lunar]

(tim_from_pa;56804)
OK.... Here's some new math.
Yes, that is the more traditional view...except that that clearly cannot be correct either. To start, there is no event dividing the first 7 and 62 weeks. Why is this division present? And what are verses 26 and 27 supposed to be referring to under this interpretation, exactly? The destruction of Jerusalem? That didn't even happen until 70 AD, well outside any timeframe offered by this prophecy.And most importantly, reading this prophecy in that way completely ignores the rest of the context of the rest of the book of Daniel. Look at Daniel 8:9-26, or Daniel 11:31-45. These are very clearly referring to the actions of Antiochus Epiphanes, who set up an altar to Zeus in the second temple of Jerusalem in 167 AD and sacrificed swine to it. All three verses mention the same sacrifices, the same "abomination of desolation," all occur within these passages. Unless the apologetic is to deny that any of these passages refer to Antiochus Epiphanes - a claim that requires some suspension of disbelief, since those events occurred at exactly the time Daniel was writing - then the claim that this prophecy is referring to something around when Jesus lived becomes very implausible. Even further evidence for the abomination of desolation and "little horn" being Antiochus is found in Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, 10:11. This is a considerable problem with the 444 BC interpretation as well.So I think that is another extremely fundamental problem with these interpretations of the 70 week prophecy - blindness to context.And heck, it's not even a given that the passage refers to Jesus at any point, either. It's not as though they mention him by name. It says that the "Anointed One" will disappear and vanish, but Jesus did not "disappear," nor did he become an anointed King of Israel - he died and was resurrected, by the Christian's own attestation. Moreover, there was no flood associated with Jesus' death as mentioned in Daniel 9:26 - this makes it seem even more unlikely.There is simply a massive amount of ambiguity revolving around the seventy weeks prophecy. There are numerous possible starting points (the decrees of Cyrus, Darius, Artaxerxes, and Artaxerxe's letters to Nehemiah), several possible ending points (the birth, ministry or crucifixion of Jesus), and several possible ways of counting (standard weeks, lunisolar years, 360-day prophetic years). Even the Masoretic punctuation is in dispute - when this is factored in, the prophecy of Daniel winds up predicting the coming of the anointed one after seven sevens rather than 69. Here is how the RSV, which accounts for Masoretic punctuation, writes it:
Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.
Considering the sheer wealth of options for interpretation it's not even surprising that one of them produces something that is near the death of Jesus (and bear in mind that 33 AD is by no means a definitive death date for Jesus - in fact, the modern scholarly consensus is 30).

 

[tim_from_pa]

Well, I made my case. It's close enough for me, and I minored in mathematics. You seem to be grappling with minor tweaks. I've heard the accepted crucifixion range of Jesus to be anywhere from 27AD to 36AD and the calculations get us into that area. I cannot understand how such precision can be demanded when our own historians cannot date the events correctly. (Somehow I get this feeling that if the shoe was on the other foot and let's say the theory of evolution produced results this accurate, one would be considered foolish for not accepting the evidence. But when it comes to the bible, then there is all of a sudden room for interpretation. However, that is just my intuition).As for the other mentions such as a flood, etc, that is symbolic---- water in the bible represents peoples but I suppose you will just dispute that as well. Again, like the 360º, I mean 360-day year, it is common knowledge. One taking a supposed objective look from the outside must come to terms with their usage and not his or her own usage of the words. It's like going into a club where the people have their own jargon, and one word stands for another, and then an outsider comes in and argues with them about their own meanings and language.I get this feeling that you are not really searching for true answers in the scriptures. From many posts in the past whenever someone answers you, you have the same modus operandi as you have here. You are really trying to pull the bible apart and drag it down. I hope you come to terms with the bible, in spite of so-called arrogant asteroids like me. God does not owe me any favor, and I could go to hell like the next person. That does not change the bible.BTW, here's links I forgot to add earlier. http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-ancient.htmlhttp://www.360calendar.com/bible-prophecy-...-calendar-2.htm

 

[Lunar]

(tim_from_pa;56831)
Well, I made my case. It's close enough for me, and I minored in mathematics.
The only math you did was some rudimentary arithmetic.Anyways, you seem to have a fixation with math, but pay very little heed to actual reading. You have pulled out numbers and dates, but completely ignored context and history. All of the flaws in your argument can be attributed to this. With your number-crunching, you managed to produce one interpretation that leads to somewhere around the time Jesus was crucified. But you completely ignored the contextual implication that the passage was clearly referring to Antiochus Epiphanes, and that the other prophecies past the point of Daniel's writing did not come true.(tim_from_pa)
As for the other mentions such as a flood, etc, that is symbolic---- water in the bible represents peoples but I suppose you will just dispute that as well. Again, like the 360º, I mean 360-day year, it is common knowledge.
Really? So Noah's flood was actually about a population spurt all along?(tim_from_pa)
I get this feeling that you are not really searching for true answers in the scriptures. From many posts in the past whenever someone answers you, you have the same modus operandi as you have here. You are really trying to pull the bible apart and drag it down.
Maybe you should check the first post in the thread to remind you who started it.In any event, as I said before, your psychoanalysis is neither appreciated nor accurate.(tim_from_pa)
I hope you come to terms with the bible, in spite of so-called arrogant asteroids like me. God does not owe me any favor, and I could go to hell like the next person. That does not change the bible.
No, but it does drive people away from you. If you have genuine concern for the wellbeing of other people's souls, then you should probably treat them better, regardless of what their beliefs may be.(tim_from_pa)
BTW, here's links I forgot to add earlier.
Those links refute your own argument, since they specifically mention an extra 30-day month added every six years.

 

[Christina]

(Lunar;56790)
I'm repeating what I said earlier because you didn't address it. No civilization in history has used an inflexible 360-day calendar which did not account for its discrepancy from the solar year in one way or another (like adding an extra month every six years).And there is even another presupposition which you make here which is unfounded - that the starting date was 444 BC. The declaration could have also been in 458 BC by Emperor Artaxerxes authorizing Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem's temple.I'm not impressed by your appeals to authority or ad hominem attacks. If you want to debate this, then do it on your own terms, and not by calling me "foolish."Please, spare me your pretentious psychoanalysis. I subject Christianity to the same scrutiny I do every other belief.Honestly your arrogance is becoming a little insufferable. In this thread you have called me a slob, a spoiled brat, foolish, naive, and implied that I was simply too dumb to find your logic intuitive because you had a superior mathematical brain. Your condescension towards skeptics is palpable. Do you realize how distasteful your comments are?Again: I would like to believe that Christians are not self-righteous, so you could start by setting a better example.
The only one I can see here that is making accusations is you stop whining and complaining and accusing everyone of insulting you. We provide this space for people to ask questions not to put down our beliefs. You wanna come to our site and insult our believes and then want to be treated with respect. You might try asking your questions with a frame of mind of hearing the answers instead of claiming you know better.If you just came here to tell us what God and the Bible says..... you have no expertise just and opinion based in a subject you have no knowledge of.When someone tells you what it says you claim you know better. The amateur claiming to be the expert and then asking for respect its really quite presumptuous on your part. If you only came here to disprove the Bible and Christianity you are in the wrong place. If you are truly interested then ask and listen with some respect. Another Words you want some respect for your words try giving it to our Words .........................................................And by the way regardless of your opinion the Biblical calendar is based in 360 day year guess what its Gods Word and he being God lays out the time frame for his Word it really makes no difference what you think sense its not laid out to your specifications, but Gods and sense its his Word we are discussing not yours the least you could do is learn about it before you claim to know better.God interpts his own word because men can never agree on anything thats why he's God http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks4.htm

 

[Lunar]

(kriss;57039)
The only one I can see here that is making accusations is you stop whining and complaining and accusing everyone of insulting you. We provide this space for people to ask questions not to put down our beliefs.
Yes, I noted this at the beginning of the thread. You may recall that it wasn't me who started this thread, but someone who was posing a direct challenge to the non-Christians on this board. What were you, or they, expecting? This entire thread - a thread posted by a Christian - was an invitation for me to criticize Christian beliefs on prophecy.Also, that people here are insulting me is a fact, not a mere accusation. Is "slob" or "spoiled brat" a compliment now?(kriss)
You might try asking your questions with a frame of mind of hearing the answers instead of claiming you know better.
Again, you might want to acquaint yourself with the opening post again. I noted right off the bat that this forum was for non-Christians asking questions to Christians and not the other way around; Alpha and Omega responded that he "didn't really care."Maybe you should have a word with A&O, not me.(kriss)
If you just came here to tell us what God and the Bible says..... you have no expertise just and opinion based in a subject you have no knowledge of.
I was a Christian for 18 years and I'm in the final year of a double major in philosophy and religious studies, for what it's worth.That being said, I never attempted to insult your credibility, so I don't know why you're being so unpleasant towards me.(kriss)
When someone tells you what it says you claim you know better. The amateur claiming to be the expert and then asking for respect its really quite presumptuous on your part.
Tell me, by what reason do you presume me to be the "amateur" here?(kriss)
And by the way regardless of your opinion the Biblical calendar is based in 360 day year guess what its Gods Word and he being God lays out the time frame for his Word it really makes no difference what you think sense its not laid out to your specifications, but Gods and sense its his Word we are discussing not yours
Show me where the bible implies a 360-day prophetic year. You see 1260 days mentioned in Revelation? How about the 1290 days mentioned in Daniel? That doesn't seem to suggest to you that they are periodically adding 30-day months to keep in sync with the solar year?I repeat - no civilization in history has used an inflexible 360-day calendar. What use would this be to anyone? It would not correspond to any meaningful observable phenomenon.(kriss)
the least you could do is learn about it before you claim to know better.
kriss, I have always found discussing things with you to be very difficult, because you have absolutely no respect whatsoever for differing viewpoints. Your intrinsic assumption whenever you run into an opposing view is that the other person is uneducated and are only heeding "the words of man." If you are going to adhere to that dogmatically, then there is no point discussing anything with you. However, there is a word for the sort of behavior you're exhibiting - arrogance.I'm not asking you to agree with me, but you could at least give me the benefit of the doubt that I have some knowledge of the material we're discussing. I've done as much for you.

 

[Christina]

No I have no respect for the arogancance of men I have absolute respect for the Bible if you don't have enough knowledge to debate me with scripture then do not debate me. It doesn't matter who started the thread when you start attacking someones beliefs and completely ignore the proof the God gives us. Because its not your opinion, do not expect to treated any differently. If you dont realize attacking mens faith is going to make them emotional then stop doing it.As I said Ive seen no one call you names Ive see you whining and accusing everyone of it because no one respects your using mans opinions over Gods Word. That is because its a Christian site not a philosophy siteGod gives different prophies from different perspectives All prophecies concerning Satan for example are given in Lunar time/ Months. The reason for this is in understanding much deeper spiritual truths. you could see the rossitta stone for this if you have eyes to see 3 1/2 years (times, time and half a time) 42 mo, 1260 days, are all the same period of time just presented in several different ways all of them are the based in a 360 day year. 1290 is based on a solar year their is a spirtual reason for the expression in a differnt term here. Same with 5 months and 150 day same time period biblical numbers are a whole subject within them selves as the Hebrew letters are also numbers one must understand much more scripture then a passing reading or opinion to begin to see how this all fits together. You can not have one without the other an expect to understand how it all works so when some tells you a truth they have learned and you come back with some irrelevant mans argument its your lack of understanding not proof God is wrong.So the fact you do not see it does not make it untrue. .You can not debate God with mens ideas.

 

[Lunar]

(kriss;57056)
God gives different prophies from different perspectives All prophecies concerning Satan for example are given in Lunar time/ Months. The reason for this is in understanding much deeper spiritual truths. you could see the rossitta stone for this if you have eyes to see 3 1/2 years (times, time and half a time) 42 mo, 1260 days, are all the same period of time just presented in several different ways all of them are the based in a 360 day year. 1290 is based on a solar year their is a spirtual reason for the expression in a differnt term here.
Well, I've got things to say about this, but what's the point? I know already that you're just going to say that I shouldn't have bothered because I don't understand anything about the bible, and that I'm trusting men's words over God's words. You say this by sheer virtue of the fact that I disagree with you - a circular argument. I've no interest in engaging with someone who resorts to the basest of intellectual thuggery.But I hope you can at least take away something from this - much more than my "clinging to man's ideas" or "being ignorant" or "lacking understanding," as you say, it is the general contempt which you and tim_from_pa and others clearly show for anyone who disagrees with them that his driven me away from your theology. If you're interested in answering anyone's questions, you have to first learn to respect them, any claims of respect you make towards any non-Christian have been utterly invalidated by the way you treat people on this site.I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

Lunar for get it they are convinced the Bible is never wrong and never could be.....my question is if their prophecy is so right how come this Second Coming has not came as predicted?

 

[Jordan]

(Jerusalem Junkie;57059)
Lunar for get it they are convinced the Bible is never wrong and never could be.....my question is if their prophecy is so right how come this Second Coming has not came as predicted?
A bible? Do you mean a Person is never wrong? So you believe everybody can tell a lie, but no 100% truth?

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

I personally do not care............believe what you believe I do not have to buy into it...I am not brain washed...........

 

[Jordan]

(Jerusalem Junkie;57061)
I personally do not care............believe what you believe I do not have to buy into it...I am not brain washed...........
Well, that just shows me by judging it's statement of yours, that you have no hope on the Maker, who created you.

 

[Christina]

(Jerusalem Junkie;57059)
Lunar for get it they are convinced the Bible is never wrong and never could be.....my question is if their prophecy is so right how come this Second Coming has not came as predicted?
Only the father in heaven knows the hour and the day just because men never guessed it right doesnt mean God word isnt true but guess youll find that out soon enoughIts obviously time to close this thread sense there is nothing being said only disagreements