What of men?

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Willie T

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I ran across this in my reading. Does it ring a bell with what any of you have experienced?

The term “muscular Christianity” appears to have first made its appearance in England during the late 1850s to describe the values embodied in two Victorian novels: Charles Kingsley’s Two Years Ago and Thomas Hughes’ Tom Brown’s School Days. The British popular press picked up the phrase, using it to refer to adventure novels that advocated and exemplified high moral principles and manly Christian heroes. A new paradigm of Christian existence was emerging as Protestants broke free of the somewhat sentimental attitudes toward religion that had settled in within much of Victorian church life.

In part, this development reflected a growing concern that Christianity was becoming feminized. Church congregations seemed increasingly to be made up of women — an observation that led many men to wonder what role masculine values might play in the ministry and mission of the church. Alarmed by statistics in the early 1890s suggesting that the membership of Protestant denominations was becoming increasingly female, many pastors wondered how the church could be reconnected with masculine values. For some critics, including powerful lay figures such as Theodore Roosevelt and John D. Rockefeller, the problem lay with the pastors themselves, who were seen by some as little more than “thin, vapid, affected, driveling little doodles” who found it easier to take tea with women than to encounter men on their own territory. What congregations needed, they said, were more “men whose blood coursed strong and hot through their veins, fine specimens of muscular, soldierly Christianity.” Protestant clergy and lay leaders of the “muscular Christianity” movement abandoned the sentimentality and “feminine” forms of religion that had gained the upper hand in the Victorian era, opting for a new model that stressed action rather than reflection and “masculinity” rather than gentility. An active Christian presence in sport seemed to be the answer to this problem.
 

FHII

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Just wondering out loud: I often wonder if its because Pastors feel like they have to play "the role" of the passive, non offending role model Christain. It'd be tough to ask a Pastor to meet the boys at the barber shop or pub and talk about things guys talk about (and still play that role). Evrn if he does, everyone else is going to have their guard up around him.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I ran across this in my reading. Does it ring a bell with what any of you have experienced?

The term “muscular Christianity” appears to have first made its appearance in England during the late 1850s to describe the values embodied in two Victorian novels: Charles Kingsley’s Two Years Ago and Thomas Hughes’ Tom Brown’s School Days. The British popular press picked up the phrase, using it to refer to adventure novels that advocated and exemplified high moral principles and manly Christian heroes. A new paradigm of Christian existence was emerging as Protestants broke free of the somewhat sentimental attitudes toward religion that had settled in within much of Victorian church life.

In part, this development reflected a growing concern that Christianity was becoming feminized. Church congregations seemed increasingly to be made up of women — an observation that led many men to wonder what role masculine values might play in the ministry and mission of the church. Alarmed by statistics in the early 1890s suggesting that the membership of Protestant denominations was becoming increasingly female, many pastors wondered how the church could be reconnected with masculine values. For some critics, including powerful lay figures such as Theodore Roosevelt and John D. Rockefeller, the problem lay with the pastors themselves, who were seen by some as little more than “thin, vapid, affected, driveling little doodles” who found it easier to take tea with women than to encounter men on their own territory. What congregations needed, they said, were more “men whose blood coursed strong and hot through their veins, fine specimens of muscular, soldierly Christianity.” Protestant clergy and lay leaders of the “muscular Christianity” movement abandoned the sentimentality and “feminine” forms of religion that had gained the upper hand in the Victorian era, opting for a new model that stressed action rather than reflection and “masculinity” rather than gentility. An active Christian presence in sport seemed to be the answer to this problem.

Not sure I fully understand your post so this may not be in line with what you are sharing. We can look at the Church body and wonder why it seems to be going in the opposite direction of what man calls power. To be made desolate. The more desolation the more opportunity to sow good seed in the heart of many. To look at the weakness of a woman and to find it offensive...and to prefer “muscle”...well I ask you what is real muscle? I’m a woman. I recognize there is a difference between men and women in displaying God. This is hard for me also, so I don’t say it isn’t. One) the body which is the woman is to be in submission to the Head which is Christ. In this we are equal. What is muscle? Is it the strength and pride in setting over someone...over any in the body? We are clearly shown in He that possesses all things coming underneath that which is least and lifting it up.

1 Corinthians 6:4
[4] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

Who is least esteemed in the church? I sincerely don’t believe this is saying they who are least esteemed are Head, but they rather can say whether that which is Head(Man) is coming underneath that which is least and lifting the body up.

As He, the Head which is Christ laid aside all to come underneath His weak body and lift Her up in His power and glory.—this is the real muscle.
 
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CoreIssue

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Just wondering out loud: I often wonder if its because Pastors feel like they have to play "the role" of the passive, non offending role model Christain. It'd be tough to ask a Pastor to meet the boys at the barber shop or pub and talk about things guys talk about (and still play that role). Evrn if he does, everyone else is going to have their guard up around him.

That's not the picture of a pastor painted in the Bible nor how I have viewed treated them today. Or how they wanted to be, except for the ones that should never been pastors to start with.
 

Nancy

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Not sure I fully understand your post so this may not be in line with what you are sharing. We can look at the Church body and wonder why it seems to be going in the opposite direction of what man calls power. To be made desolate. The more desolation the more opportunity to sow good seed in the heart of many. To look at the weakness of a woman and to find it offensive...and to prefer “muscle”...well I ask you what is real muscle? I’m a woman. I recognize there is a difference between men and women in displaying God. This is hard for me also, so I don’t say it isn’t. One) the body which is the woman is to be in submission to the Head which is Christ. In this we are equal. What is muscle? Is it the strength and pride in setting over someone...over any in the body? We are clearly shown in He that possesses all things coming underneath that which is least and lifting it up.

1 Corinthians 6:4
[4] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

Who is least esteemed in the church? I sincerely don’t believe this is saying they who are least esteemed are Head, but they rather can say whether that which is Head(Man) is coming underneath that which is least and lifting the body up.

As He, the Head which is Christ laid aside all to come underneath His weak body and lift Her up in His power and glory.—this is the real muscle.

Awesome...and either way...He is strong for us when we are the weakest ;)
 

Willie T

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Not sure I fully understand your post so this may not be in line with what you are sharing. We can look at the Church body and wonder why it seems to be going in the opposite direction of what man calls power. To be made desolate. The more desolation the more opportunity to sow good seed in the heart of many. To look at the weakness of a woman and to find it offensive...and to prefer “muscle”...well I ask you what is real muscle? I’m a woman. I recognize there is a difference between men and women in displaying God. This is hard for me also, so I don’t say it isn’t. One) the body which is the woman is to be in submission to the Head which is Christ. In this we are equal. What is muscle? Is it the strength and pride in setting over someone...over any in the body? We are clearly shown in He that possesses all things coming underneath that which is least and lifting it up.

1 Corinthians 6:4
[4] If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

Who is least esteemed in the church? I sincerely don’t believe this is saying they who are least esteemed are Head, but they rather can say whether that which is Head(Man) is coming underneath that which is least and lifting the body up.

As He, the Head which is Christ laid aside all to come underneath His weak body and lift Her up in His power and glory.—this is the real muscle.
Yeah, you did kind of miss it. It was actually about a vehement rejection of "sports activities" by Christians a hundred years ago, that morphed into today's Christian males disdaining masculinity as "worldly." (Maybe I didn't Copy/Paste enough of the book.)

Today, Liberals and Feminists are joining in on trying to eliminate any sign of normal masculinity anywhere in society, teaming with the misguided desires of many "church people" as they strive to make "nice boys" out of our male children, and also attempt to persuade girls to be less feminine.
 
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CoreIssue

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Awesome...and either way...He is strong for us when we are the weakest ;)

The woman is submissive To the authority to the man that's over Her. In turn that man is submissive to Christ.

In turn a wife is a helpmate to the man and his wise counselor.

All this modern day Equality teachings complely misinterprets what the Bible means on these issues.

An example is a marriage is not a two-headed monster which the absolutely quality claims of authority make it.

In a church a woman is not the whole teaching her over the other authority over a man.

After 46 years of marriage to one woman we grow stronger together every day.

We discuss issues. In some issues she's better qualified than I am and others I'm better qualified than her. When it deadlocks I make the final decision.

Marriages that demand absolute equality are in constant conflict and often end in divorce.
 
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Episkopos

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I ran across this in my reading. Does it ring a bell with what any of you have experienced?

The term “muscular Christianity” appears to have first made its appearance in England during the late 1850s to describe the values embodied in two Victorian novels: Charles Kingsley’s Two Years Ago and Thomas Hughes’ Tom Brown’s School Days. The British popular press picked up the phrase, using it to refer to adventure novels that advocated and exemplified high moral principles and manly Christian heroes. A new paradigm of Christian existence was emerging as Protestants broke free of the somewhat sentimental attitudes toward religion that had settled in within much of Victorian church life.

In part, this development reflected a growing concern that Christianity was becoming feminized. Church congregations seemed increasingly to be made up of women — an observation that led many men to wonder what role masculine values might play in the ministry and mission of the church. Alarmed by statistics in the early 1890s suggesting that the membership of Protestant denominations was becoming increasingly female, many pastors wondered how the church could be reconnected with masculine values. For some critics, including powerful lay figures such as Theodore Roosevelt and John D. Rockefeller, the problem lay with the pastors themselves, who were seen by some as little more than “thin, vapid, affected, driveling little doodles” who found it easier to take tea with women than to encounter men on their own territory. What congregations needed, they said, were more “men whose blood coursed strong and hot through their veins, fine specimens of muscular, soldierly Christianity.” Protestant clergy and lay leaders of the “muscular Christianity” movement abandoned the sentimentality and “feminine” forms of religion that had gained the upper hand in the Victorian era, opting for a new model that stressed action rather than reflection and “masculinity” rather than gentility. An active Christian presence in sport seemed to be the answer to this problem.


A good example of this is Eric Liddell of "chariots of fire" fame. He won gold at the Olympic games AND was an exemplary missionary in China. Quite the feat!
 

Nancy

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Yeah, you did kind of miss it. It was actually about a vehement rejection of "sports activities" by Christians a hundred years ago, that morphed into today's Christian males disdaining masculinity as "worldly." (Maybe I didn't Copy/Paste enough of the book.)

Today, Liberals and Feminists are joining in on trying to eliminate any sign of normal masculinity anywhere in society, teaming with the misguided desires of many "church people" as they strive to make "nice boys" out of our male children, and also attempt to persuade girls to be less feminine.

I must say, I know several very wimpy male Christians. I have a hard time having respect for them...especially this one in particular...his wife works 2 jobs, they have 3 kids...he just can't seem to hold down a job, for whatever reason. My dad took care of 7 children while working two to three jobs! I am sorry if I am judging this fellow...I just cannot respect that. He waited until the VERY last minute yesterday to ask me to help him move some furniture in my truck to his (yet another new) apartment...and this in the rain on NY Eve :rolleyes:
His hand is always out, where are we to draw the line?? Wimp, say's I! Lol.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Yeah, you did kind of miss it. It was actually about a vehement rejection of "sports activities" by Christians a hundred years ago, that morphed into today's Christian males disdaining masculinity as "worldly." (Maybe I didn't Copy/Paste enough of the book.)

Today, Liberals and Feminists are joining in on trying to eliminate any sign of normal masculinity anywhere in society, teaming with the misguided desires of many "church people" as they strive to make "nice boys" out of our male children, and also attempt to persuade girls to be less feminine.

Yes, I’m sorry I totally missed it. :oops:
 

Willie T

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Interestingly enough, this email just arrived from the new church we have been attending for a few months... AFTER I posted this question.

MAN UP 2019 Registration is OPEN
Hello Everyone!
Registration for COAH's annual Man Up Men's Retreat on February 1-2, 2019 begins THIS SUNDAY:

Cost: $70.00 (includes one night hotel room accommodations, Dinner Friday night, Breakfast and Lunch Saturday, snacks, kettle corn bon fire, and retreat materials.)

There is limited space available so please act quickly to ensure your spot. Be sure to turn in your Registration form no matter how you choose to make payment. Just drop it in the offering baskets.

How to Guarantee a Spot: You can go to the app City on a Hill Church - FL and choose Men's Retreat and pay for the retreat $70 or make a cash or check payment and place it the offering. Please designate on the check and/or envelope "Men's Retreat."

For the Early Birds: You can register right away, today! The Men’s Retreat tab is LIVE on the app.

Location: Lakewood Retreat
25458 Dan Brown Hill Road, Brooksville, FL 34602
www.lakewoodretreat.org (get a sneak peek)

Directions: Follow I-75 north to exit #293. Turn right at the top of the exit ramp, going back over the interstate. Drive 2 miles north toward Brooksville on C.R. 41 (not U.S. 41) and turn left onto Dan Brown Hill Rd. where the "Entering Hernando County" sign is posted. Follow the Lakewood signs 2 miles to the office.

What to Bring:
Clothes for the season (all lodgings have air conditioning and heat)
Shoes for playing games, walking trails or heading to the bathhouse (there are only a few sidewalks)
Toiletries
Sunscreen and bug spray
Towels (for bath and pool)
Flashlight and extra batteries
Bibles
Some sort of journal or pad to write in.
Sports equipment.
Cards, board games, etc.

Please Don’t Bring:
Alcohol
Illegal drugs
Fireworks
Firearms or other weapons (including paint ball, air soft, Nerf, etc.)
Pets


Things to Know:
Check-in time is after 3:00 pm on FRIDAY. We will have 4 hours to hang out and use all of the amenities of the campus.
All vehicles are to sign-in at the office and receive a parking tag; please park only in designated areas.
Please consider other guests by sharing grounds, courts, fields, pool, canoes, and rec room.
Please return all sports equipment to its proper place and report any broken or damaged equipment. (Feel free to bring some equipment as well.)
No lifeguard is on duty; swim at your own risk.

  • Quiet hours are 11:00 pm to 7:00 am.
  • Wildlife abounds; please place trash in receptacles and don’t leave food out.

The official Retreat kicks off with dinner at 7:00 pm on FRIDAY and our first session will be at 8:00 pm. The retreat concludes at 3:00 pm Saturday afternoon.
PLEASE NOTE: Every man is responsible to arrange his own transportation to and from the retreat.
If you have any questions or need further assistance, please contact the church office at 727-851-9999.
Looking forward to a great retreat!

Blessings,
Pastor Mike
“It is all about Jesus!”

This message is from City on a Hill Church. City on a Hill Church treats your personal information with the utmost care. To report abuse related to this email, please contact our office at (727) 851-9999.

 

Stranger

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I ran across this in my reading. Does it ring a bell with what any of you have experienced?

The term “muscular Christianity” appears to have first made its appearance in England during the late 1850s to describe the values embodied in two Victorian novels: Charles Kingsley’s Two Years Ago and Thomas Hughes’ Tom Brown’s School Days. The British popular press picked up the phrase, using it to refer to adventure novels that advocated and exemplified high moral principles and manly Christian heroes. A new paradigm of Christian existence was emerging as Protestants broke free of the somewhat sentimental attitudes toward religion that had settled in within much of Victorian church life.

In part, this development reflected a growing concern that Christianity was becoming feminized. Church congregations seemed increasingly to be made up of women — an observation that led many men to wonder what role masculine values might play in the ministry and mission of the church. Alarmed by statistics in the early 1890s suggesting that the membership of Protestant denominations was becoming increasingly female, many pastors wondered how the church could be reconnected with masculine values. For some critics, including powerful lay figures such as Theodore Roosevelt and John D. Rockefeller, the problem lay with the pastors themselves, who were seen by some as little more than “thin, vapid, affected, driveling little doodles” who found it easier to take tea with women than to encounter men on their own territory. What congregations needed, they said, were more “men whose blood coursed strong and hot through their veins, fine specimens of muscular, soldierly Christianity.” Protestant clergy and lay leaders of the “muscular Christianity” movement abandoned the sentimentality and “feminine” forms of religion that had gained the upper hand in the Victorian era, opting for a new model that stressed action rather than reflection and “masculinity” rather than gentility. An active Christian presence in sport seemed to be the answer to this problem.

Seems odd. For a man who is a Christian to act like a man is supposedly some 'muscular Christianity'? It should be the norm. The Christian man should be the epitomy of manliness. He should be the one who proclaims the Gospel of Christ in the face of the enemy. He should be the one who will stand up against the enemy when the odds are against him. He should be the one who will defend and lay down his life, for his God and his family.

This feminization of the Church is nothing more than castrating the men. Setting up the church to be run by women which means run by emotion only. If that is what they want, have at it. I want no part of it. And the men that like this and go along with this, well, just trail behind your women and be as they say. Show you have emotion. Cry now and then. Let them see your feminine side. Nauseous.

Stranger
 
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Enoch111

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Protestant clergy and lay leaders of the “muscular Christianity” movement abandoned the sentimentality and “feminine” forms of religion that had gained the upper hand in the Victorian era, opting for a new model that stressed action rather than reflection and “masculinity” rather than gentility.
Since the Victorian era is long gone, it would be difficult to know whether this is really true. Let's not forget that theological liberalism entered into Christendom at this time also, and there was a huge attempt to turn the Church of England back to Roman Catholicism and the veneration of Mary.

However, what is true is that since the rise of Feminism in the 20th century, followed by so-called Evangelical Feminism, there has been a huge attempt to emasculate men, and to presume (and promote the idea) that there is no difference between men and women. Today the end result is transgenderism, which many schools are promoting among young children.

At the same time, churches have failed to strengthen Christian men for a long time, and encourage them to take leadership roles within the home and the church. Part of that was the pattern of one-man ministry throughout Christendom, which is unbiblical. While this has been happening, divorce became commonplace in Western societies, and there have been more and more families without fathers and husbands. As we can see, Satan has been attacking homes and marriages while promoting Feminism (which is related to Communism) and the end-result has been disastrous.

*Meek* was not supposed to mean weak and wimpish. Yet that is how it came to be interpreted. But the Bible presents Christian men as soldiers, who are to face hardship, and endure every kind of persecution and distress in the strength of Christ, while battling Satanic forces.

Also because of many false theologies, the second coming of Christ WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY, to destroy His enemies, has not been taught to many Christians. So there are actually two aspects of Christ which Christian men must reflect -- the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah.
 

Waiting on him

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Since the Victorian era is long gone, it would be difficult to know whether this is really true. Let's not forget that theological liberalism entered into Christendom at this time also, and there was a huge attempt to turn the Church of England back to Roman Catholicism and the veneration of Mary.

However, what is true is that since the rise of Feminism in the 20th century, followed by so-called Evangelical Feminism, there has been a huge attempt to emasculate men, and to presume (and promote the idea) that there is no difference between men and women. Today the end result is transgenderism, which many schools are promoting among young children.

At the same time, churches have failed to strengthen Christian men for a long time, and encourage them to take leadership roles within the home and the church. Part of that was the pattern of one-man ministry throughout Christendom, which is unbiblical. While this has been happening, divorce became commonplace in Western societies, and there have been more and more families without fathers and husbands. As we can see, Satan has been attacking homes and marriages while promoting Feminism (which is related to Communism) and the end-result has been disastrous.

*Meek* was not supposed to mean weak and wimpish. Yet that is how it came to be interpreted. But the Bible presents Christian men as soldiers, who are to face hardship, and endure every kind of persecution and distress in the strength of Christ, while battling Satanic forces.

Also because of many false theologies, the second coming of Christ WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY, to destroy His enemies, has not been taught to many Christians. So there are actually two aspects of Christ which Christian men must reflect -- the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah.
Also because of many false theologies, the second coming of Christ WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY, to destroy His enemies, has not been taught to many Christians. So there are actually two aspects of Christ which Christian men must reflect -- the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah.

Humility is power under control