what was the last specific doctrine you wrong about?

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ATP

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ewq1938 said:
As long as you agree God does toss people he has created into the fire then we agree.
Well God is the creator of humanity yes,
but salvation in Christ is a choice we make and not everybody will make that choice.
God doesn't send people to hell,
they do it themselves by not believing in Christ as their Savior.
Whoever is not of God is of the antichrist spirit.

Rom 10:9-10 NIV If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
 

ewq1938

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ATP said:
God doesn't send people to hell,
they do it themselves by not believing in Christ as their Savior.

They don't jump in the lake of fire willingly so yes God does send people to "hell" and that is based upon what is written and not written in the books on judgment day.
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
They don't jump in the lake of fire willingly so yes God does send people to "hell" and that is based upon what is written and not written in the books on judgment day.
But ewq, judgment day is the great white throne in the afterlife. In this life as you breathe right now we have a choice to accept Christ.
 

ewq1938

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ATP said:
But ewq, judgment day is the great white throne in the afterlife. In this life as you breathe right now we have a choice to accept Christ.

I don't disagree and don't see that being at all related to my last post. You said God doesn't send people to "hell", I don't agree.
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
You said God doesn't send people to "hell", I don't agree.
God doesn't send people to hell, we send ourselves there. God gave us free will to accept the gift of salvation.
 

ewq1938

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ATP said:
God doesn't send people to hell, we send ourselves there. God gave us free will to accept the gift of salvation.

But he does make the decision to send someone to the lake of fire. It is his decision despite the person being responsible for what they chose and did not choose in life.
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
It is his decision despite the person being responsible for what they chose and did not choose in life.
Incorrect. Once you become a believer, you are then saved until the day of redemption. God is faithful to the end.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
 

ewq1938

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ATP said:
Incorrect.

God is the one on judgment day sending people to the fire:

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
God is the one on judgment day sending people to the fire:

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Where in this scripture does it say God is sending people to hell?
 

whitestone

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I used to believe that there was a "church organization" out there somewhere that had it all correct. I refused to believe that none of them were, so I went to all of them. A lot. catholic, protestant and everything in between.
Zip.

There is only this one...

(Heb 12:22) but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels,
(Heb 12:23) to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
(Heb 12:24) and to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better than that of Abel.
(Heb 12:25) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned them on earth, much more shall not we escape who turn away from him that warneth from heaven:

So instead of "looking" for one, I TAKE this One and only True Church, to them, wherever they might be, whatever they might call themselves :)
 

Born_Again

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StanJ said:
I used to believe in the GAP theory but constantly reading Gen 1 with the help of the Holy Spirit showed me God really did make the earth in 6 actual lunar/solar days.
OOooooo :) We could start a whole new topic on this one :D I'm game!
 

ewq1938

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StanJ said:
I used to believe in the GAP theory but constantly reading Gen 1 with the help of the Holy Spirit showed me God really did make the earth in 6 actual lunar/solar days.
There is a natural time gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
There is a natural time gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2
Incorrect. Many of those who hold to the gap theory do so in order to reconcile old-earth, evolutionary theories with the book of Genesis. But it seems to be a strained reconciliation. The plain reading of Genesis 1 does not at all intimate a length of time between the first two verses. Genesis 1:1 tells us that God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 informs us that, when He first created the earth, it was formless, empty, and dark; it was unfinished and uninhabited. The rest of Genesis 1 relates how God completed the formless, empty, and dark earth by filling it with life, beauty, and goodness.
 

ewq1938

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ATP said:
The plain reading of Genesis 1 does not at all intimate a length of time between the first two verses. Genesis 1:1 tells us that God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 informs us that, when He first created the earth, it was formless, empty, and dark; it was unfinished and uninhabited.

Actually it says it became void so something happened inbetween verse 1 and 2 that isn't given to us.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(((GAP OF UNKNOWN TIME LENGTH HERE)))

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Was the world simply created "without form" or did it "become" without form?



http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1143160133-2504.html

The Hebrew word for "was" without form is HAYAH and the tense that the verb is QAL which specifically means TO BECOME. Therefore the verse actually says "And the earth BECAME without form, and void;" meaning that God originally created the earth complete and that at some point it BECAME void and without form. Some form of destruction took place which strengthens the "gap theory".


01961 hayah {haw-yaw}

a primitive root [compare 01933]; TWOT - 491; v

AV - was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become,
pertained, better for thee; 75

1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about,
come to pass

1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word
of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b)
(Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone




In addition, the "mood" of the verb is "perfect" and it affects the meaning in this way: "The Perfect expresses a completed action." This means that the earth was not created void but indeed BECAME void in an action that is completed by the second verse of Genesis.


So, according to the rules of Hebrew verb tenses, it is not "was void" as if it was made that way but it "became void" as the voidness "came into being".


Genesis 1:2 And the earth [BECAME] without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Scripture has a second witness of this truth:



Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

God did not create the earth void and without form as Genesis is thought to state. God destroyed the world and then recreated everything within it and that's what we read and see in the Genesis account. This is also why scientific evidence that God left behind affirms that the earth is much older than 6000-7000 years.
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
This is also why scientific evidence that God left behind affirms that the earth is much older than 6000-7000 years.
Wrong. God created the earth and all its requirements in 6 days and then rested on the 7th. These seven days are also figurative for thousand year time frames, which is 7,000 years. God's 7,000 year plan is real and biblical. The first 6,000 years describe man and his work, the last thousand years describe the 1,000 year Messianic Kingdom of rest. Gen 6:3 NIV (Jubilee 120 x 50 = 6,000).....

Gen 2:2 NIV By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

Gen 6:3 NIV Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

Ex 35:2 NIV For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.

Psalm 90:4 NIV A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

Hosea 6:2 NIV After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

2 Pet 3:8 NIV But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Rev 20:4 NIV I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

ewq1938

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ATP said:
Wrong. God created the earth and all its requirements in 6 days and then rested on the 7th. These seven days are also figurative for thousand year time frames, which is 7,000 years. God's 7,000 year plan is real and biblical. The first 6,000 years describe man and his work, the last thousand years describe the 1,000 year Messianic Kingdom of rest. Gen 6:3 NIV (Jubilee 120 x 50 = 6,000).....

Gen 2:2 NIV By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.

Gen 6:3 NIV Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

Ex 35:2 NIV For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.

Psalm 90:4 NIV A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

Hosea 6:2 NIV After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

2 Pet 3:8 NIV But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Rev 20:4 NIV I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

All evidence actually disproves the above theory :) BTW we are in the 7th day since Adam already and no Millennium has happened yet. That theory is also wrong.
 

ATP

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ewq1938 said:
All evidence actually disproves the above theory :) BTW we are in the 7th day since Adam already and no Millennium has happened yet. That theory is also wrong.
Uh no we aren't in the 7th day. We are still working ewq, lol. Of course the Millennium hasn't happened yet. Jesus is not reigning on earth, and we are not at rest yet. We are however close to that 6,000 year mark. Timing is running out for man to repent, that's for sure.