What was the purpose/benefit of Jesus fasting for 40 days?
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
We were told he was displaying obedience to God, not as if we must all fast, but that in that particular circumstance God wanted to demonstrate the Son's obedience in a difficult test. It was to show us how to deal with satanic temptation.
We do not necessarily deal with satanic temptation by fasting, but I do think the lesson is that we deny ourselves what Satan offers us that is out of the will of God. It may be sexual temptation, or the temptation to greed or power--whatever it is, we should recognize it for what it is and then deny ourselves. We should accept all things only from God, and not from the Evil One.
This, clearly, is a matter of discernment. So we have to learn something about having the right motives in all we do. False condemnation can sometimes steer us in the wrong direction--this is not Legalism. We just have to learn, by experience, what comes from a pure heart and what is designed to draw excessive interest to ourselves and what hurts other people. These kinds of things teach us how to discern what is of the spirit of Satan, or what is rebellious, and what comes out of love and gratitude towards God.
We do not necessarily deal with satanic temptation by fasting, but I do think the lesson is that we deny ourselves what Satan offers us that is out of the will of God. It may be sexual temptation, or the temptation to greed or power--whatever it is, we should recognize it for what it is and then deny ourselves. We should accept all things only from God, and not from the Evil One.
This, clearly, is a matter of discernment. So we have to learn something about having the right motives in all we do. False condemnation can sometimes steer us in the wrong direction--this is not Legalism. We just have to learn, by experience, what comes from a pure heart and what is designed to draw excessive interest to ourselves and what hurts other people. These kinds of things teach us how to discern what is of the spirit of Satan, or what is rebellious, and what comes out of love and gratitude towards God.
A more important questions isn't why Jesus fasted, since he's God and the workings of God are a mystery. But a more important question might be why should we fast?
And the answer to that is to become more spiritually connected to God and to offer what we would have ate to the hungry and poor. That is the purpose of fasting. I fasted once, not intentionally, but out of grief, for 3 days and a darkeness left my soul. It was the beginning of my spiritual journey in life as I look back on that instance.
I have since fasted for healings for others and they have worked, people were healed. The two scriptures that come to mind are these:
Matthew 17:19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”
Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
And the answer to that is to become more spiritually connected to God and to offer what we would have ate to the hungry and poor. That is the purpose of fasting. I fasted once, not intentionally, but out of grief, for 3 days and a darkeness left my soul. It was the beginning of my spiritual journey in life as I look back on that instance.
I have since fasted for healings for others and they have worked, people were healed. The two scriptures that come to mind are these:
Matthew 17:19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”
Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I would warn you about this, because I've been through a similar thought process in my life and found it was partly in error. It can lead to presumptuous prayer and to legalism.
Teaching religious observance like "fasting" can become a form of Legalism. Any religious exercise that virtue signals as a Work is Legalism.
It can also be presumptuous by declaring that Fasting is the mechanism by which we may get things accomplished for God. We may claim Baptism saves people, or that Fasting heals people. We may even claim that laying hands on people gives them the Holy Spirit.
I'm not saying all of it is wrong, of course. I'm just saying that teaching religious rituals as a mechanism for replacing "hearing from God" is wrong, and will get us into trouble. Fasting wasn't designed to "get people healed." Baptism wasn't designed to "get people saved." What gets things done is "hearing from God" and acting on it.
Why did the disciples of Jesus get reproved for not healing someone? It wasn't because they failed to fast, or that we need to fast today to get people healed. It was not that Fasting is a "healing mechanism."
Healing doesn't take place every time someone fasts and asks God to heal someone, even if Jesus said, "Whatsoever you ask, you shall have," or "Whenever 2 or 3 of you gather together, there am I." These oft-quoted formulas for getting answers to prayer are just very general principles meant to spur us on to hearing from God.
You should "ask" for things only after you have heard Jesus said, "Seek my Kingdom 1st, and all these things will be added to you." You have to know what kinds of things to pray for first before sending numerous requests heavenward that you may be wanting to spend on your own lusts (uninspired desires). You have to "hear God!"
The disciples that failed to heal a man had been given orders previously by Jesus to go forth healing. They had already heard from God. It was a specific call to them, and not to all Christians in all ages.
They just needed to prevail in their faith in what God had already told them. That's why they were encouraged to fast, to get them focused on what they had already heard, and not be distracted by the process.
This is not a formula for others to go out and pray for people, expecting that fasting will lead to their healing. We have to "hear from God!"
So yes, Fasting can help us to prevail in obeying words we've already heard from God. But it cannot be preached as a mechanism to ensure healing, just as everything we ask for will not be answered simply because "we ask in faith."
True asking in faith requires that we "hear God!" It will be to "further God's Kingdom." We can pray for other things in our own lives, but it should be consistent with the nature of God's Kingdom. I hope you take this in the right spirit?
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We really don't see eye to eye. Not even seeing why your bringing "legalism" into this. As legalism refers to the pharisees thinking they are saved by repentance and obeying the commandments via the old testament. Denying Christ too.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I thought it was pretty easy to understand, but maybe it's not for you. If you want to tout "fasting" as a mechanism to get supernatural things done, good luck with that!
If you're asking properly, it may indeed convince God about how serious you are, and may perhaps convince Him to answer your prayer. I'm not against you getting your prayers answered, unless they are uninspired or if they mislead others about how they are to pray.
We are to pray, "Thy Kingdom come." And so, we not only ask God for things, we look to Him for the motivations behind asking Him things.
If you think it is *always* God's will to heal, or even to save, you are sadly mistaken. God sometimes wills for people to experience "accidents," tragedies, or even spiritual blindness.
For example, God wills for all men to be saved. And yet, under certain conditions we know that God sometimes *prevents* people from being saved!
2 Thes 2.10 They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
There are also a variety of reasons for God not healing people, and we should avoid being judgmental about this. Sometimes people are being judged by God. And at other times, people are just being given to suffer circumstances imposed upon them genetically, or by their circumstances. In all cases, Christians are suppose to witness to God's love in the midst of a suffering world.
And so I believe there is a danger in offering religious routines and rituals such as Fasting to be a mechanism for healing. Holy Water doesn't heal, communion doesn't heal, praying in Jesus' name (by rote) doesn't heal. What heals is God's word, and to know what it is we have to hear it. We have to be living in that word to know what is consistent with it.
If you offer up 'fasting" as a procedure for healing or as a formula for healing, then you will be misleading people who sometimes God does not wish to heal. That's what my warning was all about. But still, you may be unable to understand or hear that. You don't really need to hear me--you just need to hear God.
Incidentally, I don't see "feeding the poor" to be the biblical purpose for "fasting." Where do you get that? Usually, fasting has to do with humbling one's self before God, or with repentance from sin. It is to show we're earnest about our repentance.
Obviously, that was not the reason for Jesus' fasting. Therefore, I think he was just denying himself something that was being offered to him by Satan.
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I simply quoted the bible, I think it can speak for itself. It was Jesus that said fasting and prayer is required for casting out demons. In the bible they used the term demon for just about every illness. So I'm not totally sure he was talking about demons so much as healing.
Besides I'm just posting what I've learned thru experience.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that's true, and I tried to explain why that was so. Obviously, you're not hearing me?
My point was that Jesus was not proposing fasting and prayer as a mechanism for getting prayers answered *generally.* This was Jesus' solution to getting *this specific prayer* answered.
Again, there are 2 points to this.
1) Jesus had already commissioned the disciples to go out and perform these kinds of miracles of healing. Jesus was not commissioning *all Christians* to this ministry!
2) Jesus was not proposing Fasting as the cure for the problem. Rather, he was proposing Fasting to get the disciples focused on the need for earnestness in their ministry. It was not a job to be taken lightly, but rather, a struggle that required dedication.
An example of this I like to use is the following, where a rather bad king of Israel was given a brief dispensation of kindness from the prophet. He was invited to receive victory over his enemies from God if he would only slam his arrows on the floor.
However, he did it in such a lackluster, royally-performing way that the prophet denounced it as weak and worthy of only limited effect. The king was too dignified to obey the prophet without royal pomp and controlled display of royal merit.
2 Kings 13.18 Then he said, “Take the arrows,” and the king took them. Elisha told him, “Strike the ground.” He struck it three times and stopped. 19 The man of God was angry with him and said, “You should have struck the ground five or six times; then you would have defeated Aram and completely destroyed it. But now you will defeat it only three times.”
Naaman almost made the same mistake as a renowned military figure, almost failing to humble himself before the prophet's orders...
2 Kings 5.11 But Naaman went away angry and said, “I thought that he would surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, wave his hand over the spot and cure me of my leprosy. 12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Couldn’t I wash in them and be cleansed?” So he turned and went off in a rage.
All this may be for others, brother. Don't worry about it if you disagree with it.
Honestly fasting is a way to get answers to your prayers clearly. That is the point of the fast, that God will hear you. Read Isaiah on fasting and you'll get the point.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, you don't understand my point, and I'm not going to insist on it. I was reflecting on how I, personally, misjudged the use of Fasting. You may not be misusing Fasting at all--God is your judge--not me!
Again, I was referring to the false use of Fasting as a mechanism for ensuring a healing will take place. In this case, Jesus said it was necessary. It was not part of a sacred performance to achieve supernatural results, in my view.
Jesus was not teaching that Fasting is part of a religious rite in order to ensure healing takes place in all circumstances. In my opinion, it was only being promoted by Jesus to ensure that those who pray do so humbly and earnestly. God does the healing--not the Fasting.
You seem to be trying to make the practice of Fasting of utilitarian benefit. It accomplishes healing. It provides extra food for the needy.
But this is not what I think Fasting ever was. It did not save up food for others. It was not an occult ceremony as part of a religious rite to produce healing.
Its purpose was moral and spiritual both. It was to provide sincerity, and a proper recognition of the relationship between God and ourselves as His servants. It was an acknowledgement of our need for God in some circumstances. In others, it was a denial of any methodology proposed by Satan, which leads to sin.
The reason why I place such a strong emphasis on this is because for centuries religious people have used props with the thought they will get God to answer their prayers. They may think pouring holy water on something, or witnessing a miracle, or giving to God to get something back, or praying in a group will get better success in prayer. Maybe it will?
But Fasting is not really a prop to get an answer to prayer. It is just a useful tool to get ourselves to focus on God and on what He wants us to do. It only achieves healing if God has already determined He wishes to do that through us. He may simply want us to humble ourselves further before performing the miracle.
God does not need to see the Fast to do a miracle. *We* need to Fast if God sees that we need to acknowledge him in our humility and weakness.
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
You said, "I simply quoted the bible, I think it can speak for itself. It was Jesus that said fasting and prayer is required for casting out demons. In the bible they used the term demon for just about every illness. So I'm not totally sure he was talking about demons so much as healing.
Besides I'm just posting what I've learned thru experience."
You see, this is the problem. You are not "just quoting the Bible" when you saying that Jesus said "fasting and prayer is required for casting out demons." There were many times Jesus and his disciples cast out demons without having to fast at all!"
So this is really at the heart of what I'm saying, that fasting is not an essential element in the ingredients necessary to produce healing, *Sometimes* it is necessary. Often, it is not!
We don't want to promote fasting as a necessary step in order to see a miracle! It is *faith in God's word* that is able to produce a miracle. It is not a word we can imagine, but only a word we actually hear! It is not a *formula,* but only discernment of how God sees the need.
You may indeed have experienced answers to prayers when praying and fasting. I've also experienced answers to prayers when I got down on my knees before God and fully humbled myself in desperation.
It is not specifically what we do as some kind of "religious rite," or ritual, but the need to do what fasting suggests, namely humble ourselves in earnestness and sincerity, acknowledging God as the worker of the miracle. We may have to fast to show our sincerity--we may not.
That also is part of the passage. It was "this kind" that required fasting and prayer. This suggests that at others times, they aren't necessary.
I feel like I'm over-explaining this to you. I just want to be clear that I'm not opposing either Fasting or what the Bible says here. I'm just trying to explain what this is *not* saying!
Besides I'm just posting what I've learned thru experience."
You see, this is the problem. You are not "just quoting the Bible" when you saying that Jesus said "fasting and prayer is required for casting out demons." There were many times Jesus and his disciples cast out demons without having to fast at all!"
So this is really at the heart of what I'm saying, that fasting is not an essential element in the ingredients necessary to produce healing, *Sometimes* it is necessary. Often, it is not!
We don't want to promote fasting as a necessary step in order to see a miracle! It is *faith in God's word* that is able to produce a miracle. It is not a word we can imagine, but only a word we actually hear! It is not a *formula,* but only discernment of how God sees the need.
You may indeed have experienced answers to prayers when praying and fasting. I've also experienced answers to prayers when I got down on my knees before God and fully humbled myself in desperation.
It is not specifically what we do as some kind of "religious rite," or ritual, but the need to do what fasting suggests, namely humble ourselves in earnestness and sincerity, acknowledging God as the worker of the miracle. We may have to fast to show our sincerity--we may not.
That also is part of the passage. It was "this kind" that required fasting and prayer. This suggests that at others times, they aren't necessary.
I feel like I'm over-explaining this to you. I just want to be clear that I'm not opposing either Fasting or what the Bible says here. I'm just trying to explain what this is *not* saying!
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The purpose of this thread is what was the purpose of Jesus fasting for 40 days. Are you sure it wasn't to have answers from the Father to heal people? That seems to be a problem with your posts. They don't suggest that Jesus was required to fast for 40 days to heal everyone he did. Think again.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I don't really need to "think again." I never said that Jesus wasn't required to fast for 40 days. But I will say that Jesus wasn't required to fast for 40 days *in order to heal everyone!* Where do you get that teaching from?
Don't you realize that Jesus was filled with the Spirit and went forth in the power of the Spirit *before* he fasted in the wilderness?
Luke 4.Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness...
13 When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.
14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.
Do you think Mary had to fast in order to give birth to Jesus miraculously? Of course not! Fasting is required not as a religious rite to obtain healings, but only to secure proper devotion in seeking God for an answer to prayer. In Jesus' case, fasting was pursued not out of his own sin and weakness, but only to demonstrate the need to deny himself when offered something from Satan.
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It's standard logic, I forget everyone doesn't understand standard logic. Which is why they fail to understand the scriptures.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I just added more to my post. Your rudeness does not add to your argument--it detracts from it. If you don't wish to discuss anymore, then stop responding. Thanks.
Please use "standard logic" to what I added?..
Don't you realize that Jesus was filled with the Spirit and went forth in the power of the Spirit *before* he fasted in the wilderness?
Luke 4.Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness...
13 When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.
14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.
Do you think Mary had to fast in order to give birth to Jesus miraculously? Of course not! Fasting is required not as a religious rite to obtain healings, but only to secure proper devotion in seeking God for an answer to prayer. In Jesus' case, fasting was pursued not out of his own sin and weakness, but only to demonstrate the need to deny himself when offered something from Satan.
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