When Did Jesus Go to Egypt?

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St. SteVen

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Aunty Jane said:
Matthew’s account is the only one that mentions the magi…..and they were not at the stable, nor does it say there were three of them.
The star that led these pagan astrologers to Jerusalem, was not from God because it led the magi to Herod, not to Jesus. If it was God who led them there, then God is to blame for the deaths of all those infants.
I agree with most of your post, but not with the star leading them to Jerusalem. Matthew says that after seeing Herod, the star which they had seen in the East (not which they had followed from the East) went before them.
This brings up an interesting point.
The Magi ended up in Jerusalem. Not necessarily because the star led them there.
More of a political move. ??? (talk to Herod)

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David Lamb

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No, Aunty Jane, you do not understand.



No, David lamb, you do not understand.
Sorry, what don't i understand? I said that Matthew says that the star led them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, not all the way from their home in the East. Isn't that what you are saying?
 

St. SteVen

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So...
Does no one know when Jesus went to Egypt?

- What city was Jesus in when the Magi found them?
- If you say Bethlehem, why did Joseph and Mary remain there after arriving for the census?
- Why didn't they go home to Nazareth? (Jesus' hometown)
- Did the star lead the Magi to Jesus of Nazareth? (not Bethlehem) ???

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Jay Ross

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Does that work? I seem to be missing something. ???

You are.

Sorry, what don't I understand? I said that Matthew says that the star led them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, not all the way from their home in the East. Isn't that what you are saying?
The Gospel of Matthew, in chapter 2, also tells us that the star led them from their homes in the east to Jerusalem initially and then to Bethlehem;-

behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, 2 "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East and have come to worship him."​
they went their way; and lo, the star, which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with immense joy; 11 and going into the house [1] they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him​

The traditions of the Christmas story greatly distort, what the Gospels tell us happened, when Christ was born. These traditions cause us to be blind and deaf with respect to the story of the Brith of Christ.

Shalom


[1] The Greek word used here “oi)ki/an” is from the Greek Root word: ––

NT:3614: – oi)ki/a oikia (oy-kee'-ah); from NT:3624; properly, residence (abstractly), but usually (concretely) an abode (literally or figuratively); by implication a family (especially domestics): KJV - home, house (-hold).

NT:3624: – oi@ko$ oikos (oy'-kos); of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication a family (more or less related, literal or figuratively): KJV - home, house (-hold), temple.​

The understanding that the Wise Men entered the dwelling place of Joseph, Mary and Jesus in Bethlehem, is probably closest to the understanding that we should have. Even though they may still have been residing in the stable it still was their home/dwelling place at that time.
 

Jay Ross

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Does no one know when Jesus went to Egypt?

Yes and no.

Yes, ee know that Joseph, Mary and Jesus went down to Egypt.

No, we do not know the exact day that Joseph had the warning dream to leave Bethlehem to go down to Egypt and acted upon that dream. What we do know is this: -

19 But when Herod died [1], behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, 20 "Rise, take the child and his mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the child's life are dead." 21 And he rose and took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus reigned over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there, and being warned in a dream he withdrew to the district of Galilee. 23 And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, [2] that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."​

What we also know is that after the 41 days stipulation for women who had brough forth a son, that Mary was taken to Jerusalem to be cleansed and Jesus, to be presented to God as the first to be born to Mary.

Your question may make some people think, but too many question, only begin to add to your confusion.



[1] Herod died days after he had approval to kill his son from Rome. So, if the killing of all children, two years and younger as recorded in Matthew 2 who were in Bethlehem is linked to Herod’s order to kill his son then around five days after giving the order to kill the children in Bethlehem, Herod died.
[2] Joseph took Mary and Jesus to the city of Nazareth probably no more than twenty days after they had left Bethlehem.
 

Aunty Jane

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Aunty Jane said:
Matthew’s account is the only one that mentions the magi…..and they were not at the stable, nor does it say there were three of them.
The star that led these pagan astrologers to Jerusalem, was not from God because it led the magi to Herod, not to Jesus. If it was God who led them there, then God is to blame for the deaths of all those infants.

This brings up an interesting point.
The Magi ended up in Jerusalem. Not necessarily because the star led them there.
More of a political move. ??? (talk to Herod)
This was no ordinary star…..the magi called it “his star” that they saw in the East….so if this was in accord with Babylonian astrology, it certainly had nothing to do with God, who forbade his people anything to do with spiritism and predictions of the future. (Deut 18:9-12)

If it had been from God, then the Omniscient One knows what is going to happen, and would have led these men directly to the one they wanted to give their expensive gifts to.….not to Herod, knowing the consequences of doing so. This proud and arrogant ruler was not going to allow his dynasty to be removed from being kings over the Jews. They were a subjugated people, and had been for a very long time under gentile domination, as it was prophesied in their Scripture, and experienced in their history.

God’s part in this story begins when he warns the magi not to go back to Herod, proving that they had no evil intent, but were used as dupes in order to have the Christ child put to death before he could cause trouble to Herod in the future.

There is no whitewashing this event…..if Herod carefully ascertained when the magi saw the star, and got the information about where he was to be born from the Jews, then why have all the male infants in Bethlehem, of 2 years of age and under, put to death?

How long a journey is it from Babylon to Jerusalem by camel….and because there is no mention of a number, or when their journey began, there could have been a camel train with several people involved….in no great rush to reach their destination.….a distance of about 1,400klms (900 miles)

The star that they followed, mysteriously moved and “came to a stop over the place where the child was”….

The Bible account has the shepherds attending the stable because of the angelic vision and chorus they had seen and heard. They were told to expect to see a “brephos” or “newborn infant” “wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger” (a feeding trough for animals) which you would find in a stable, not a house. So the shepherds were there….but the account about the magi is not even mentioned in the more detailed account recorded in Luke. Not really the big deal that many like to make it out to be.….but it does provide some interesting detail…

The “house” (“oikia”) where Jesus was now described as a “paidion” (a little boy or girl) gives the impression that Jesus was a young child by that time, which would sync with the absence of the magi at the stable.
It was after the magi’s visit that God told Joseph to flee to Egypt to avoid Herod’s murderous intent.
There is no detail about where Mary and Joseph went after Jesus’ birth, so maybe they got a house and decided to settle into parenthood there for a while? They only failed to find lodging originally because of the decree that led them and many others to Bethlehem to be registered under Caesar’s orders.

The expensive gifts were not presented to the newborn Jesus otherwise the offering that Mary and Joseph made at the Temple would have been abhorrent to their God. If they had “gold, frankincense and myrrh”…and only offered two turtle doves or pigeons, it would have breached God’s law….something these two would never have done.
 

St. SteVen

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It was after the magi’s visit that God told Joseph to flee to Egypt to avoid Herod’s murderous intent.
There is no detail about where Mary and Joseph went after Jesus’ birth, so maybe they got a house and decided to settle into parenthood there for a while? They only failed to find lodging originally because of the decree that led them and many others to Bethlehem to be registered under Caesar’s orders.
The only reason they went to Bethlehem was to register for the census.
Why wouldn't they return home to Nazareth (Jesus hometown) after registering?
Should we assume that people stayed in the town they registered in?
The Magi could have found them there. (in Nazareth)

But then they would not have been in danger of Herod killing the children in Bethlehem. ???

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Aunty Jane

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The only reason they went to Bethlehem was to register for the census.
Why wouldn't they return home to Nazareth (Jesus hometown) after registering?
Should we assume that people stayed in the town they registered in?
The Magi could have found them there. (in Nazareth)

But then they would not have been in danger of Herod killing the children in Bethlehem. ???

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Bingo! And we cannot assume about things that the Bible doesn’t tell us.

Nazareth might have been Jesus’ hometown, but Bethlehem was Joseph’s.

And the offering at the Temple of two turtle doves or pigeons, would have broken God’s law. If they were in possession of such expensive items they would have sold some and given a more appropriate offering.
 
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David Lamb

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So...
Does no one know when Jesus went to Egypt?
Judging by what we read in Matthew about Herod killing all the young boys 2 years old and under in Bethlehem and its districts, I suggest that Jesus would have been nearly 2 by the time they went to Egypt.
- What city was Jesus in when the Magi found them?
Definitely Bethlehem.
- If you say Bethlehem, why did Joseph and Mary remain there after arriving for the census?
- Why didn't they go home to Nazareth? (Jesus' hometown)
We are not told. Possibly travelling the 70 miles with a new-born child would have been a problem. Also, Bethlehem was much nearer to Egypt than Nazareth was, so it could be God's providence.
- Did the star lead the Magi to Jesus of Nazareth? (not Bethlehem) ???

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Not according to Matthew:

“Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found [Him], bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also." When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was.” (Mt 2:7-9 NKJV)

It is only after the time in Egypt that Matthew says the went (back) to Nazareth:

“But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead." Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene."” (Mt 2:19-23 NKJV)
 
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St. SteVen

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So, where were Joseph and Mary from if they didn't live in Nazareth before the census?

And did they return home after the census? If so, why were they in danger of Herod?

Luke 1:26-27 NIV
In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,
27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.

[
 
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David Lamb

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So, where were Joseph and Mary from if they didn't live in Nazareth before the census?
But they did live in Nazareth before the census:

“And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city. Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child.” (Lu 2:1-5 NKJV)

Both Mary and Joseph were descendants of David, who came from Bethlehem. That is why Luke writes, "because he was of the house and lineage of David."
And did they return home after the census? If so, why were they in danger of Herod?
No. They were still in Bethlehem, hence the danger. Herod had issued a decree that all boys w years old and under in Bethlehem and its districts should be killed. Nazareth was some 70 miles from Bethlehem, and certainly was not considered to be in the districts of Bethlehem.
Luke 1:26-27 NIV
In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,
27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.

[
Yes, that is where Mary lived, and Joseph, before the census, and again after the return from Egypt.
 
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