When exactly do you become a Christian?

[GodsGrace]

As I'm sitting in church my mind is rolling like my usual analytical mentally ill self haha. ivte made a couple posts before on how my mindset is a struggle with being a Christian, analytical, constant questioning etc ...so since definitely for myself and for many others since it's so hard to have certainity, at what point do you actually become a Christian?

Growing up I thought feelings mattered(the big saving moment) I had one, I had always considered myself a Christian, I had someone pray over me during a Christian festival around 30 years ago and I definitely thought I noticed and felt a difference and it lasted with me for a while. 5 or 10 years ago I would of considered that my true beginning, but now since we have all these professionals (sarcasm) we realize feelings don't matter!..supposedly to many sides of Christianity....

It's been a tough journey on my end due to my own mental issues however since certainity is only attained by a miracle for me, what exactly is a Christian and at what point does it start? Is it once we start following Christ instructions and lifestyle as best as possible with hope in Him, some say the baptism is mandatory....with of course His grace.

Hi Ernie
Just got here and who knows where the OP topic is by now.

I'll tell you what I believe to be true:

It's very simple to be a saved person on their way to heaven:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God.

But you want to know when one becomes a Christian.
That's a totally different question.

I noticed when first joining these forums that we all seem to have different OPINIONS about practically everything...
yes, even the divinity of Jesus.

Christianity started a long time ago,,,pretty soon after Jesus left this earth to return home.
First it was Jews that believed Jesus to be the Messiah.
Then it was called THE WAY. Acts 9:2, Acts 22:4
Then it became Christians. Acts 11:26
Then Catholic by Iganatius of §Antioch around 107AD

I'd say that the requirements necessary to be called a §Christian were established back then.
Not in 1500AD, not in 1800AD and certainly not these days.

Here is what one has to believe to be defined as Christian:
He must believe that Jesus died was resurrected. This is in the very first creed, 1 Cor 15
He must believe that Jesus is God.
He must believe in the Trinity.

If the above requirements are not met....the person cannot be labeled a Christian.

If we're to remain a group, a tribe, a team, a religion, a faith....
I think it's important to, at least, know how to define ourselves.

 

[GodsGrace]

If being born again defined being "Christian", why weren't the Apostles and disciples of Israel called such for 40 years?


Agreed, the bible says none of these things.


Correct that's what "scripture" says. What's missing here? Uh, the word CHRISTIAN.

This "test" is your OPINION, but not scriptural.

I disagree. If you are IN CHRIST does not mean CHRIST is FORMED IN YOU, at the NEW BIRTH of your 'old man' spirit.

GAL 4:19 My LITTLE CHILDREN (babes in Christ), of whom I travail in birth again UNTIL Christ be formed IN YOU,

Could you explain better what you've stated here:

I disagree. If you are IN CHRIST does not mean CHRIST is FORMED IN YOU, at the NEW BIRTH of your 'old man' spirit.
(your last sentence above).

 

[walter]

I feel the beginning of becoming a Christian starts by listening to the words of Christ.

I try to find the places when Jesus explains things to his disciples in private, Not necessarily when he speaks in illustrations to the people that obviously are opposed to Jesus teaching. And I also take into account when Jesus is talking to his father in prayer.

Also when he is teaching the ones that believed in him and his followers, like he did in his Sermon on the Mount.

Mark 4:11, 33, 34, Matthew 13:11, Luke 8:10

 

[Hillsage]

Could you explain better what you've stated here:

I disagree. If you are IN CHRIST does not mean CHRIST is FORMED IN YOU, at the NEW BIRTH of your 'old man' spirit.
(your last sentence above).

Thank you for picking up on that comment. Long ago I stumbled on that verse in Galatians. It became part of a more expanded understanding of SALVATION. Simply, I and many others believe that we are triune beings and we need salvation in all three parts of our being. The first salvation begins with the spirit. Then we begin to "work out your (soul's) salvation ) "with fear and trembling" as Philip 2:12 says. And no one has a saved body....this side of glory

GAL 4:19 My little children, (fetal believers?) of whom I travail in 'birth again' until Christ be formed IN you,

GodsGrace I have a question for you. What spirit do you believe Jesus was 'born with'...from the womb of Mary? Was it the Holy Spirit of God? Or was it the holy spirit of christ. which was in Jesus?

COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Jesus himself wasn't born 'perfect'.....he was born sinless and he became PERFECT through suffering temptations like we suffer. We are still suffering temptations because we have not yet become PERFECT, or might I suggest CHRISTIAN?

PHI 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Being a Christian is a progressive growth process "unto a perfect man ....unto the image of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ IN US."

EPH 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, , unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I'll just stop here. Hope this can stimulate iron sharpening iron.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for picking up on that comment. Long ago I stumbled on that verse in Galatians. It became part of a more expanded understanding of SALVATION. Simply, I and many others believe that we are triune beings and we need salvation in all three parts of our being. The first salvation begins with the spirit. Then we begin to "work out your (soul's) salvation ) "with fear and trembling" as Philip 2:12 says. And no one has a saved body....this side of glory

I agree with the above.
When our spirit is awakened and we become born from above....
the spirit in us will definitely have an effect on our soul.

The soul being the mind, will and emotions.
The spirit effects all three in making them better and more in tune with the will of God.
Not those who cry Lord Lord will go to heaven, but those who do the will of the Father.
Our spirit allows our soul to do the Father's will.

GAL 4:19 My little children, (fetal believers?) of whom I travail in 'birth again' until Christ be formed IN you,

I believe Paul sees himself as a father to these new believers.
They were behaving when he was with them...doing good works...
and he was telling them that they should continue this even when he's away.
Fetal believers?
Can't disagree.

GodsGrace I have a question for you. What spirit do you believe Jesus was 'born with'...from the womb of Mary? Was it the Holy Spirit of God? Or was it the holy spirit of christ. which was in Jesus?

I'm a trinitarian Hillsage.
I believe Jesus is God and was God at birth.
He is one PERSON but with two natures: Human and divine.

So the reply would have to be the spirit of God.

COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Jesus himself wasn't born 'perfect'.....he was born sinless and he became PERFECT through suffering temptations like we suffer. We are still suffering temptations because we have not yet become PERFECT, or might I suggest CHRISTIAN?

No Christian IS perfect or ever will be perfect.
Like we both agree....
being born from above will have an effect on us...
but no man will ever be perfect.
Only Jesus was perfect while on earth because He's God.

You might be discussing Theosis...
maybe your denomination believes in theosis.

PHI 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Being a Christian is a progressive growth process "unto a perfect man ....unto the image of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ IN US."

I agree that we experience a progressive growth, but not unto a perfect man.

I like
1 John 3:2
2Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

There are some verses that do sound as if we will become perfect...
this is why it's important to know some theology.

Hebrews says we have weaknesses. Heb 4:15

EPH 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, , unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I'll just stop here. Hope this can stimulate iron sharpening iron.

I've never studied theosis.
I don't know if I could sharpen an iron in this regard.
I know that the Orthodox believe in theosis.
I think LDS also.
No other denomination thinks it's possible to become perfect due to the fact
that we still have the sin nature - although it is kept under submission.

I'm not sure I even understand if this is what you're saying...

 

[Hillsage]

You asked why, if being born again defines a Christian, the apostles were not called “Christians” for years. Scripture is clear that new birth, not a label, is what makes someone belong to God.

You simply wrote too much, but I would like to pursue this subject with someONE. Not with a number of takers, but if you're interested in a bite at a time. Enough views were presented initially to consider this as an unexpected elephant...to me.. I've never really even thought of this topic until this thread just hit me with all those claiming their POV were a litmus. And I'm trying to plug it into my former POV, but I am honestly struggling to do so. IOW I'm still looking and hope you take an interest.

You said;
But "belonging to God" has always been, according to 'the bible'.
PSA 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

I would like to post more scriptures, which I believe truly confirms this fact.

ACT 17:24-30 "The God who made the world and all things in it, ...........26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, .......27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
(Paul confirms words of their heathen poet) 29 "Being then the children of God, .....30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

I would like to stop here, just to make a theological point, I hope you can agree with. We are a triune being that are spirit, soul and body. I believe your spirit came from God but not your soul and body.

HEB 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
NUM 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

The soul/body, are the products of our earthly father's/mother's seed. Sperm and egg. But our human spirits came from GOD.

Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Those who receive Christ are made children of God, “which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:12–13).

I agree will all John said here, but still don't seeing it be a litmus for the definition biblically as to "CHRISTIAN".

The name “Christian” appears when God chose to reveal it at Antioch, “the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). The reality came from God’s work of regeneration, the label came later. Scripture uses both ideas without conflict. The word Christianos appears three times, Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16. The Bible also calls believers saints, brethren, disciples, those who are in Christ.

As I said earlier Acts 11:26 was roughly 40 years old. I've done more research and find that Acts 26:28 and 1Peter are 60 AD and 62-64 AD. So both of those references push way beyond our first reference. This again surprised me.

Comment?

 

[bdavidc]

You simply wrote too much, but I would like to pursue this subject with someONE. Not with a number of takers, but if you're interested in a bite at a time. Enough views were presented initially to consider this as an unexpected elephant...to me.. I've never really even thought of this topic until this thread just hit me with all those claiming their POV were a litmus. And I'm trying to plug it into my former POV, but I am honestly struggling to do so. IOW I'm still looking and hope you take an interest.

You said;
But "belonging to God" has always been, according to 'the bible'.
PSA 24:1 The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.

I would like to post more scriptures, which I believe truly confirms this fact.

ACT 17:24-30 "The God who made the world and all things in it, ...........26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, .......27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
(Paul confirms words of their heathen poet) 29 "Being then the children of God, .....30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

I would like to stop here, just to make a theological point, I hope you can agree with. We are a triune being that are spirit, soul and body. I believe your spirit came from God but not your soul and body.

HEB 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
NUM 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

The soul/body, are the products of our earthly father's/mother's seed. Sperm and egg. But our human spirits came from GOD.

I agree will all John said here, but still don't seeing it be a litmus for the definition biblically as to "CHRISTIAN".

As I said earlier Acts 11:26 was roughly 40 years old. I've done more research and find that Acts 26:28 and 1Peter are 60 AD and 62-64 AD. So both of those references push way beyond our first reference. This again surprised me.

Comment?

Please let me take you step by step through the passages you have mentioned. Psalm 24: 1 is clear “The earth is the LORD’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.” (Psalm 24:1) This speaks of God’s ownership as Creator, not as Savior. Every man is His because He formed them from the dust (Psalm 139:16). But Jesus drew the line in the sand when He said, “Ye must be born again” (John 3:7). Ownership through creation is automatic, sonship through faith is not.

Acts 17: 24–30 speak of Him being the one in whom we live and move and have our being. Paul quotes a poet who says, “we are also his offspring” (Acts 17:28). But look at Paul’s conclusion: “God… now commandeth all men every where to repent” (v. 30). If they were all already the children of God spiritually then repentance would be folly. Paul is differentiating the creation relationship from the salvation relationship. John 1: 12–13 is clear “As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God.” This is not automatic at birth into this world. It is only through new birth through Christ.

Hebrews 12: 9 and Numbers 16:22 refer to God as the Father of spirits and that is true, but it does not wipe out the need for regeneration. Even though God formed our spirit, man is dead in trespasses and sins until brought to life in Christ (Ephesians 2:1–5). That is why Jesus had to tell Nicodemus who was already a spirit and soul and body that he still must be born again (John 3:3–6). Being God’s workmanship by creation does not make us His children by grace.

So when the word Christian is applied in Acts 11: 26, this is not the beginning of belonging to God, it is just the moment God chose to reveal the name. Salvation has always been by the new birth. The label came at a certain point in time, but the reality was always in place. Scripture can use all kinds of names for His people, disciples, saints, brethren, believers, but the only defining mark of every true one of them is this: they are born of God.

 

[walter]

I get it that Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of light, But shouldn't we listen to all the words of Christ and all the words from the apostles?

AI Overview

Yes, believers are called to listen to the words of Christ and the apostles, but with careful discernment, as Satan's ministers often disguise themselves as servants of righteousness to spread deceit. The challenge is not in dismissing all teachings, but in distinguishing true doctrine from false by testing everything against God's Word and the established teachings of Christ and his apostles.

I try my very best to test everything against God's word, and I pray to God for his guidance finding truth.

For example the Bible says love your neighbor as yourself, so I love and respect people from most all religions even though they believe differently than I do.

 

[walter]

Matthias Thank you for the likes

 

[BlueNightingale]

As I'm sitting in church my mind is rolling like my usual analytical mentally ill self haha. ivte made a couple posts before on how my mindset is a struggle with being a Christian, analytical, constant questioning etc ...so since definitely for myself and for many others since it's so hard to have certainity, at what point do you actually become a Christian?

Growing up I thought feelings mattered(the big saving moment) I had one, I had always considered myself a Christian, I had someone pray over me during a Christian festival around 30 years ago and I definitely thought I noticed and felt a difference and it lasted with me for a while. 5 or 10 years ago I would of considered that my true beginning, but now since we have all these professionals (sarcasm) we realize feelings don't matter!..supposedly to many sides of Christianity....

It's been a tough journey on my end due to my own mental issues however since certainity is only attained by a miracle for me, what exactly is a Christian and at what point does it start? Is it once we start following Christ instructions and lifestyle as best as possible with hope in Him, some say the baptism is mandatory....with of course His grace.

Maybe God gives us feelings and the reason we appreciate feeling His presence is a God given gift that he desires for us to have.

You became a Christian the moment you believed Jesus died on the cross for your sins and were willing to walk with him.

 

[Hillsage]

I agree with the above.
When our spirit is awakened and we become born from above....
the spirit in us will definitely have an effect on our soul.

I agree

The soul being the mind, will and emotions.
The spirit effects all three in making them better and more in tune with the will of God.
Not those who cry Lord Lord will go to heaven, but those who do the will of the Father.
Our spirit allows our soul to do the Father's will.

I agree with mind will emotions as a general def. for soul. But being formally educated as a Chiropractor, I also recognize that those attributes are all 'non flesh or non material 'functioning-s' of the brain. I like to say that the soul is the source of our 'motivational' life force. But the spirit is the source of the 'animating' life force for our body.

I believe Paul sees himself as a father to these new believers.
They were behaving when he was with them...doing good works...
and he was telling them that they should continue this even when he's away.
Fetal believers?
Can't disagree.

I agree; Paul sees himself as a father to these new believers.
1CO 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

And Gal 4:19 "Paul was travailing" to have a spirit child "birth again"..."Christ formed in you" (them). He was doing so, not by birthing their spirits. But by planting the 'seed' of the words of the gospel in them. Something that is not the birthing of a baby, but the fetal forming of a new creation. A creation that may not take place for minutes or years. I have planted gospel seeds in those whom others watered. But in the end it still takes a spoken word from the father, such as Peter heard.....that spoken word being; "Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD". And "faith (to believe that word) comes from hearing the Father, and hearing comes from the spoken rhema/word of God." Romans 10:17

I'm a trinitarian Hillsage.
I believe Jesus is God and was God at birth.
He is one PERSON but with two natures: Human and divine.

I am a trinitarian too. But with a biblical based twist. I just don't believe "the Word" was God on earth for 33 years when it was the "sinful flesh" body of the triune man Jesus.
ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
The 'son of God' wasn't 'the Holy Spirit' of the triune God. The "Son" of the triune God was "the spirit of Christ" which was IN Jesus. Scripture says "God IS spirit" Joh 4:24, and in the beginning The Father was spirit, the WORD was spirit, and the Holy Spirit was.....duh, SPIRIT. The spirit WORD gave up equality with the Father and Holy Spirit and became sin natured FLESH ...the body of Jesus.

So the reply would have to be the spirit of God.

I agree, but believe "the spirit of God" is not the Holy Spirit, but the holy spirit of christ which was in Jesus.

HEB 2:17 Therefore, He (Jesus) had to be made like His brethren in all things,
This verse does not say, what 'the church' teaches; "The brethren have to be made like Jesus in all things."

I can say a lot more biblically, but let's leave this 'discussion' of the trinity. The church fought for over this doctrine for 400 years.

I wasn't familiar with the term "theosis". So I looked it up and now I must say I would agree with that teaching. Thank you for mentioning it.

And as for you believing we can't "be perfect". I disagree and can't find a single verse that agrees with your opinion that we can't be.

PHI 3:11 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

Philip 3 speaks of two resurrections in the Greek. One is a resurrection from the dead (ones) and the other is a resurrection OF the dead. To attain the resurrection from the dead (ones) you must reach the perfection Paul was striving for. Paul not making it, doesn't negate its possibility. But you are going to have to have Christ formed in you 100%. And I am now leaning more heavily on that being the biblical definition of "Christian".

Need another verse?
2CO 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

 

[walter]

John 13:35
Berean Standard Bible
By this everyone will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another.”

How can we be identified as one of Jesus disciples if we go to war, our brothers and sisters are in every country,
we have a worldwide ministry with brothers and sisters everywhere in 1,105 languages, we cannot go to war against them can we and still be identified as one of Jesus disciples can we?
.......................................................................................................................................................................................................

God instructed Moses with specific instructions to engage in war, Jesus did not.

AI Overview

Yes, the statement is an accurate reflection of the different contexts and teachings found in the Bible. The Old Testament records God instructing Moses and the Israelites to wage war against enemy nations, particularly during the conquest of the Promised Land. In contrast, Jesus's teachings in the New Testament emphasize peace, love, and nonviolence.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................

Jesus told is disciples early that day to get a couple swords, then later that day Peter cut off a person's ear, and Jesus rebuked him and said those who kill by the sword will die by the sword.

AI Overview
Yes, you've accurately summarized a key episode from the Gospels. Jesus instructed his disciples to buy swords to fulfill prophecy, but then rebuked Peter for using his sword to cut off the ear of the high priest's servant during Jesus's arrest in the garden. Jesus healed the man's ear and told Peter to put his sword away, stating, "those who live by the sword will die by the sword".

 

[Hillsage]

Please let me take you step by step through the passages you have mentioned. Psalm 24: 1 is clear “The earth is the LORD’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.” (Psalm 24:1) This speaks of God’s ownership as Creator, not as Savior.

That's your OPINION. Not scripture.

I told you last time you wrote too much for my interest. You did it again this time. I'll hang out and wait to see if GodsGrace answers first. Last time he answered while I was trying to eat your elephant post. After posting my answer I found his post, which was also too big for the time I want to be here. Thankfully this thread hasn't been a fast mover.

I don't have the time to deal with two posters. Hope you understand. And things might swing back to just you. We'll see.

 

[walter]

Is it better to have a belief supported by just a few scriptures, or should you have a belief supported by all the scriptures you can find on the topic?

AI Overview

It is better to have a belief supported by all the scriptures you can find on the topic rather than just a few, a principle often referred to as scripture "interpreting scripture" or "precept upon precept" in Christian theology. Relying on multiple texts helps ensure an accurate, contextual understanding and prevents misinterpretations that can arise from private interpretations of a single verse.

 

[Lambano]

what exactly is a Christian and at what point does it start?

I guess that question boils down to, at what point does Jesus consider you "His"?

Some say it was before the beginning of time:

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

 

[Hillsage]

I guess that question boils down to, at what point does Jesus consider you "His"?

Some say it was before the beginning of time:

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

And just how "holy and blameless" is the Father and Jesus' standard in the "high calling of Christ IN you"?

1PE 1:15 but as he who called you IS holy, BE holy yourselves in all your conduct;

ROM 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

I think we will be ALL HIS when He is truly ALL OURS.

 

[bdavidc]

That's your OPINION. Not scripture.

I told you last time you wrote too much for my interest. You did it again this time. I'll hang out and wait to see if GodsGrace answers first. Last time he answered while I was trying to eat your elephant post. After posting my answer I found his post, which was also too big for the time I want to be here. Thankfully this thread hasn't been a fast mover.

I don't have the time to deal with two posters. Hope you understand. And things might swing back to just you. We'll see.

You say it's my opinion, but I quoted the Scripture. Psalm 24: 1 says, "The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." That is not my opinion, that is God's Word. The difference between what you call my opinion and Scripture is this: when I explain a verse, I'm not adding my own ideas, I'm showing what the text says in context.

If you think it's too long to read, that's your choice, but to call it my opinion is not honest. God gave us His Word to be read, studied, and explained. 2 Timothy 2: 15 says we are to "study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Sometimes that takes more than a few words.

You don't have to read my posts if you don't want to, but I will continue to give Scripture in full. Short replies may sound easier, but they often cut truth out. God's Word is worth the time to read and hear.

 

[bdavidc]

I don't have the time to deal with two posters. Hope you understand. And things might swing back to just you.

This is a public forum, so yes, you will receive more than one response. Nobody is ganging up on you, that's just the nature of public discourse. You are free to read or ignore what you choose, but you can't demand everyone else be silent until you're ready.

If you don't have time to read multiple responses, that's your prerogative, but please don't act as if others are somehow in the wrong by responding.

 

[Behold]

You became a Christian the moment you believed Jesus died on the cross for your sins and were willing to walk with him.

You become a Christian the moment that God accepts your faith in Christ, and forgives your sin.
Its at that very instant that God's Holy Spirit birth's the BELIEVER "Spiritually = into Himself, as "one with God".

So, this is a SINNER, who has been forgiven and given redemption, while they were yet a sinner.
This means that God isn't accepting you because you promise to be good later........He is accepting you because Christ's BLOOD Sacrifice has made you acceptable to Him...........and it keeps you accepted, always, once you are born again.

 

[walter]

To believe in Jesus is a very good beginning, but shouldn't we obey all his words also?

Google's AI Overview

Yes, many Christian denominations and biblical teachings assert that belief in Jesus is inseparable from obeying his words. While belief is a necessary starting point, obedience is considered the natural and crucial evidence of a living faith.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................

John 3:36
Berean Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

John 3:36
NSB(i) 36 »He who puts active faith in the Son has everlasting life. He who disobeys* the Son will not see life for the wrath of God remains upon him.« (*Greek: apeitheo: willfully disobey, not having faith)

Some Bibles say "rejects the Son" or "believes not" or "disobeys the Son" but in all translations the verse explains
[ they do not get life.]

Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible
13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

New King James Version,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

See: Ro. 2:8, Ro. 1:18, Heb. 10:26-27, Matt. 7:24-25, 22:37-38; Jas. 1:25, Lu. 8:21, 11:28; Jn. 13:17, 14:15, 14:23, 15:14
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Should we disregard 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 and only believe in Jesus?

Google's AI Overview
No, the Bible and Christian theology do not support disregarding 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 or only believing in Jesus without acknowledging the consequences of rejecting Him. The passage describes divine "vengeance" and "everlasting destruction" for those who do not know God or obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, emphasizing that believing in Jesus is inseparable from obeying His teachings.