When exactly do you become a Christian?

[walter]

Acts 16:30, 31: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will get saved.” Hebrews 5:9: “[Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” Should we believe in both scriptures or just one of them?

Google's AI Overview

Yes, Christians believe in both scriptures, as they present complementary aspects of salvation: Acts 16:30-31 highlights the necessity of faith in Jesus for salvation, while Hebrews 5:9 emphasizes that this faith must lead to obedience and a commitment to follow Jesus's commands for everlasting salvation. Believers understand that true faith in Christ inherently includes a desire to obey his teachings and will.

......................................................................................................................................................................................................

I myself agree people should put faith in both scriptures as truth that leads to everlasting salvation.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/ebtv/answers-to-lifes-big-questions/

This is a 3-minute video, you may like the information.

 

[Hillsage]

This is a public forum, so yes, you will receive more than one response. Nobody is ganging up on you, that's just the nature of public discourse. You are free to read or ignore what you choose, but you can't demand everyone else be silent until you're ready.

If you don't have time to read multiple responses, that's your prerogative, but please don't act as if others are somehow in the wrong by responding.

Thanks for two...short...back to back...5 minute apart posts. Both of which prove you just don't get it (harsh) OR you just don't get me (I will hope for the best). I do understand better than the discernment of your 2 posts reveal.

I've been on 'declared christian' forums for 30+ years. I do know how they work....and don't work....Christlike some times, anti-Christlike most times. I was kicked off a couple before ending up here...by request. The last one had an amassed 5,000 posts before getting kicked off for not being a CHRISTIAN. When you've been around a bit longer you may find you don't know as much as you think you know. And also knowing, how worthless to Christ, most of the declared fruit in forums really is, based upon the fruit inspection I've done for decades.

I'm just going to deal with one scripture you quoted which shows me MUCH concerning you. But don't feel bad, you are in agreement with almost all here who claim they are "CHRISTIANS."


2TI 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved/dokimos unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Lucky for me, I only have to click/copy/paste from my 'personal notes' for this verse. Doesn't waste my time IN MY OPINION, IN MY OPINION, IMHO

"approved" SRN 4704 dokimos: prop. acceptable (current after assayal), i.e. approved

"The word “approved” in the Greek refers to being ‘tested’ or assayed 'as to being the real thing'. You are not "approved" just because you give lip service to a 'correct’ doctrinal statement of faith. You are "approved" if ‘what you talk/believe’ manifests, when you are ‘tested’. But if you fail the temptation or test, and then compromise in your ‘walk or talk', you then show yourself to be un-approved. And it matters, not one bit, if what you 'say you believe' is 'true' or not. On the day of judgement, you will be judged NOT for your TALK, but for your WALK.

In jail ministry I used to frequently hear from the 'jail house converted "Christians”. "Christians" who had nothing but time to study bibles and memorize scriptures. They often told me that I wasn’t as “approved studying the word” as they were. I told them they weren’t “proving” anything concerning themselves to me. Nothing, that is, but the arrogance of believing that they wouldn’t go back to being drunks/drug addicts and thieves the minute they left the jail and went back to the sin bin which they didn’t even have access to ‘in jail’, to be tempted with! No matter how big their talk was, I was constantly reminded as to the truth of my words, every time one of them got out, and a few months later they were right back in.

Walking the walk is ‘approved’ Christianity. Scripture, approved of the son who spoke it wrong and walked it right ‘in his father’s vineyard, but scripture condemns the son who spoke it right and walked it wrong, by never going.. (Matt 21:28-31)."

Hope you got this far bdavidc. I hope what I've shared adds a bit light to your "KNOW THE BIBLE" AVATAR.

bye bye

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree

I agree with mind will emotions as a general def. for soul. But being formally educated as a Chiropractor, I also recognize that those attributes are all 'non flesh or non material 'functioning-s' of the brain. I like to say that the soul is the source of our 'motivational' life force. But the spirit is the source of the 'animating' life force for our body.

OK
It could be explained like that.
Definitely the soul is non-material.
Much research today on what CONSCIOUSNESS is.

How do you like this explanation?
The body and soul = a man
Body, soul and spirit = divine life
or the spiritual man
or the divine man - but let's be careful to not understand this as a godman, but just that he has a divine spark in him.

I agree; Paul sees himself as a father to these new believers.
1CO 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

And Gal 4:19 "Paul was travailing" to have a spirit child "birth again"..."Christ formed in you" (them). He was doing so, not by birthing their spirits. But by planting the 'seed' of the words of the gospel in them.

But if we have the words of the gospel and accept them...
isn't this planting the seed?

Something that is not the birthing of a baby, but the fetal forming of a new creation. A creation that may not take place for minutes or years. I have planted gospel seeds in those whom others watered. But in the end it still takes a spoken word from the father, such as Peter heard.....that spoken word being; "Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD". And "faith (to believe that word) comes from hearing the Father, and hearing comes from the spoken rhema/word of God." Romans 10:17

Agreed.
And you're referring to 1 Corinthians 3:15, or thereabouts.
1 Corinthians 3:5-7
5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.

I am a trinitarian too. But with a biblical based twist. I just don't believe "the Word" was God on earth for 33 years when it was the "sinful flesh" body of the triune man Jesus.

But the NT presents Jesus as being God...
and I'm going to say right now that I really don't care to debate this.
In order for Jesus' sacrifice to be valid for all of humanity,
and to be great enough to be the atonement of sins for all of humanity...
Jesus had to be both God and man...but a perfect man.

ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
The 'son of God' wasn't 'the Holy Spirit' of the triune God. The "Son" of the triune God was "the spirit of Christ" which was IN Jesus. Scripture says "God IS spirit" Joh 4:24, and in the beginning The Father was spirit, the WORD was spirit, and the Holy Spirit was.....duh, SPIRIT. The spirit WORD gave up equality with the Father and Holy Spirit and became sin natured FLESH ...the body of Jesus.

We have a nuance here that I fear to discuss since I just may not have the language.
Of course Jesus gave up equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH....
Theology teaches that Jesus did this willingly....as He also gave us His life willingly.
I won't post scripture unless you ask me to...I think you know the scripture I'm referring too and it just saves me a lot of time...
I usually do post it, but not sure yet where this is headed.

I DO NOT believe that Jesus had the sin natured flesh,,,which most just refer to as the sin nature.
How could Jesus have the sin nature if He was God?
Can God have sin in Him?

There are verses stating that Jesus was without sin.

I agree, but believe "the spirit of God" is not the Holy Spirit, but the holy spirit of christ which was in Jesus.

Getting a bit confused here.
Are you saying the spirit of §God IS the Holy §Spirit?
This is not really correct.
FATHER
SON
HOLY SPIRIT

The Holy §Spirit is a separate PERSON and is not the spirit of God.

HEB 2:17 Therefore, He (Jesus) had to be made like His brethren in all things,
This verse does not say, what 'the church' teaches; "The brethren have to be made like Jesus in all things."

It's both Hillsage.
Jesus had to be like man.
Man has to become like Jesus.

I can say a lot more biblically, but let's leave this 'discussion' of the trinity. The church fought for over this doctrine for 400 years.

I took a long time for the church to have a creed that explained the Trinity....
but it was believed by the Early Fathers from the very beginning.
It was believe that Jesus was something unique (the only begotten) and trying to explain what or how must
not have been an easy task.

But, yes, let's leave discussion on the Trintiy unless it refers to other convo.

I wasn't familiar with the term "theosis". So I looked it up and now I must say I would agree with that teaching. Thank you for mentioning it.

Some agree....some don't.
There are threads on this.
I don't contribute to them.
John Wesley believed man could achieve complete sanctification (same idea) while alive.d
I just don't believe it's possible, although it should be what a Christian strives for.

And as for you believing we can't "be perfect". I disagree and can't find a single verse that agrees with your opinion that we can't be.

You don't have to agree with me.
But I will ask you this.
Do you know anyone that is perfect?

PHI 3:11 that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

Philip 3 speaks of two resurrections in the Greek. One is a resurrection from the dead (ones) and the other is a resurrection OF the dead. To attain the resurrection from the dead (ones) you must reach the perfection Paul was striving for. Paul not making it, doesn't negate its possibility. But you are going to have to have Christ formed in you 100%. And I am now leaning more heavily on that being the biblical definition of "Christian".

Christian has a specific meaning.
We cannot change that definition.
There are some on these threads that define themselves as christian but then go on to prove otherwise.
It seem like YOU're trying to do the same.

Our goal is to have Christ formed in us.
Whether or not that goal is achievable is a different idea.

Are you familiar with early church history?
Some wanted to wait till their dying breath to be baptized...
do you know why? (if you do, it would save me some typing).

Need another verse?
2CO 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Be perfect means something different.
If we could be perfect...how do you explain the fact that one could fall away from the faith?
How do you explain all the warnings Paul give to believers?

Even Jesus said to be perfect.
Do you really think Jesus was unaware of man's sinful nature?

 

[GodsGrace]

Acts 16:30, 31: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will get saved.” Hebrews 5:9: “[Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” Should we believe in both scriptures or just one of them?

Google's AI Overview

Yes, Christians believe in both scriptures, as they present complementary aspects of salvation: Acts 16:30-31 highlights the necessity of faith in Jesus for salvation, while Hebrews 5:9 emphasizes that this faith must lead to obedience and a commitment to follow Jesus's commands for everlasting salvation. Believers understand that true faith in Christ inherently includes a desire to obey his teachings and will.

......................................................................................................................................................................................................

I myself agree people should put faith in both scriptures as truth that leads to everlasting salvation.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/ebtv/answers-to-lifes-big-questions/

This is a 3-minute video, you may like the information.

Walter,
Why do you care what Google's AI overview is?

Is AI the new authroity for what Christianity believes?
Should we throw out our bibles?
Are we going to stop using our brain to figure out what Jesus wanted to teach us?

Are you aware that Google's AI responds to a question depending on HOW that question is asked?

AI is not God.
Listen to God.

 

[walter]

Each scripture is just as important as the next one isn't it, so I think it would be beneficial to put faith in all the scriptures that we both can find, in this way we draw a more complete understanding on any subject, what do you think?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
New International Version
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.​

Peace and Happiness be with you.

 

[walter]

AI is not God.
Listen to God.

Thank you for correcting me, I think you are very correct, I will no longer use AI, the Bible should be the only source, especially all the words from Jesus and all the words from the Apostles even the whole bible, thank you for your good advice.

 

[Matthias]

Thank you for correcting me, I think you are very correct, I will no longer use AI, the Bible should be the only source, especially all the words from Jesus and all the words from the Apostles, thank you for your good advice.

Welcome to the forum. Given what you’ve written in this post, “welcome” doesn’t express strongly enough what I’d like to convey to you.

 

[walter]

Welcome to the forum. Given what you’ve written in this post, “welcome” doesn’t express strongly enough what I’d like to convey to you.

Thank you for your kindness, I appreciate your comments and likes very much.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for correcting me, I think you are very correct, I will no longer use AI, the Bible should be the only source, especially all the words from Jesus and all the words from the Apostles even the whole bible, thank you for your good advice.

Thank you for taking my post the way it was meant.
I fear that the new generation will be using AI a lot and this does not bode well for our faith/religion.

I was posting to a reformed/Calvinist believer and he posted an entire response from Google's AI which stated that Calvinism is correct.

I asked it in a different manner and the reply came back that Calvinism is not correct.

Although AI uses the information that's available to it...
it cannot really understand theology from man's reasoning.

Better to use scripture, and, yes, even human teachers....
but all must agree with scripture.

Welcome to the Forum !

 

[walter]

Is there Keys to a Happy Life?

Some say I’ll be happy when....

What makes you happy may not make someone else happy.

What if you still strive to reach certain goals but at the same time you decide to have contentment, joy and happiness right now not later?

The keys to our happiness is maybe something we decide to have right now.
- Some people find a lot of happiness when they give to others.
- Some people find a lot of happiness when they start their day asking themselves.. What are a couple things and I can be thankful for today?

Does anyone have any ideas they would like to share?


Hebrews 13:5 Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.”

1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient and kind, Love is not jealous. it does not brag, does not get puffed up,

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. NIV Bible

 

[Hillsage]

OK
It could be explained like that.
Definitely the soul is non-material.
Much research today on what CONSCIOUSNESS is.

How do you like this explanation?
The body and soul = a man
Body, soul and spirit = divine life
or the spiritual man
or the divine man - but let's be careful to not understand this as a godman, but just that he has a divine spark in him.

Wow GG, this is a bigger 'elephant of a post' than I complained to bdavidc about sending. Do you know what the 8 said to the 0? "Tighten your belt."

I am not a dichotamist, I am a trichotomous.
Adam was the first son of God. (Luke 3:38). He was created with the christ spirit' in him, that Jesus was born with. And Adam was created a triune being to begin with. God created dirt, formed that dirt into a dead human body. He then breathed a spirit into that body. It was a spirit born from the Holy Spirit ("that which is born of/from the Spirit is spirit").

The spirit is the ANIMATING life-force of the body. With that spirit the dead 'BRAIN/soul, began to function as a LIVING 'mind, will, emotions'. The 'mind' soul was led of the spirit from first breath and the body obeyed the 'will emotions' function of the soul making man an immortal "living soul". That changed when Adam quit being led of the spirit and was tempted by "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life" (the 3 root sources of every sin a man commits).
That's when Adam's soul went from being a "living soul", to a 'dying soul', but still a triune being.

Dichotamists needed to take anatomy, like I did. And then study their bibles a bit harder.
JAM 2:26 For as the body without the (divine spark) spirit (from God) is dead,

That's my answering just your first question. One elephant bite.

But if we have the words of the gospel and accept them...
isn't this planting the seed?

Agreed.
And you're referring to 1 Corinthians 3:15, or thereabouts.
1 Corinthians 3:5-7
5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.

But the NT presents Jesus as being God...
and I'm going to say right now that I really don't care to debate this.
In order for Jesus' sacrifice to be valid for all of humanity,
and to be great enough to be the atonement of sins for all of humanity...
Jesus had to be both God and man...but a perfect man.

Good, we will just have to agree to disagree. I already proved Jesus wasn't perfect ,just sinless. And proved he became perfect, the same way we're supposed to become perfect. I posted scriptures for that too.
Moving on.

We have a nuance here that I fear to discuss since I just may not have the language.
Of course Jesus gave up equality with the Father and the Holy Spirit WHILE HE WAS ON EARTH....
Theology teaches that Jesus did this willingly....as He also gave us His life willingly.
I won't post scripture unless you ask me to...I think you know the scripture I'm referring too and it just saves me a lot of time...
I usually do post it, but not sure yet where this is headed.

24 years ago a church elder and we heard a joke at a conference in Dallas with Jack Taylor. He said; "When MAN , decided to invent THEOLOGY, which means 'the study of GOD', I'm pretty sure God looked at the angels and said; "OH BOY, this ought to be good." And 40,000+ denominations prove that point to be true.

I DO NOT believe that Jesus had the sin natured flesh,,,which most just refer to as the sin nature.
How could Jesus have the sin nature if He was God?
Can God have sin in Him?

I already gave my 'verse backed' answer in post 31.
ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,

The "Son" of the triune God was "the spirit of Christ" which was IN "Jesus the christ". It was that spirit which made Jesus the Messiah. It wasn't His sin natured flesh which came from Mary IMO. I assume you would agree, unless you believe in the 'immaculate conception' like the Roman Catholics teach and believe.

As for you saying "Can God have sin in Him." you are just 'assuming' incorrectly about my position. Scripture says Jesus was "made like his brethren (brothers in Christ) in EVERY RESPECT . Us being born with a sinful flesh nature, just like Jesus; Does NOT mean Jesus ever gave in to 'that nature' and committed a sin? NO! NO! NO!

He overcame that sin nature and told us to do it the same way HE did. He is our pattern son for us to become "manifested sons of God"

ROM 8:19* For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;

This was way too long of a post for me, and I'm quitting now. I'm 76 and just flunked my dementia test at my last physical. 2 years ago I took it and was dx. with a cognitive decline score of 25 out of 30. Last month I scored 19....dementia.

There are verses stating that Jesus was without sin.

Getting a bit confused here.
Are you saying the spirit of §God IS the Holy §Spirit?
This is not really correct.
FATHER
SON
HOLY SPIRIT

The Holy §Spirit is a separate PERSON and is not the spirit of God.

It's both Hillsage.
Jesus had to be like man.
Man has to become like Jesus.

I took a long time for the church to have a creed that explained the Trinity....
but it was believed by the Early Fathers from the very beginning.
It was believe that Jesus was something unique (the only begotten) and trying to explain what or how must
not have been an easy task.

But, yes, let's leave discussion on the Trintiy unless it refers to other convo.

Some agree....some don't.
There are threads on this.
I don't contribute to them.
John Wesley believed man could achieve complete sanctification (same idea) while alive.d
I just don't believe it's possible, although it should be what a Christian strives for.

You don't have to agree with me.
But I will ask you this.
Do you know anyone that is perfect?

Christian has a specific meaning.
We cannot change that definition.
There are some on these threads that define themselves as christian but then go on to prove otherwise.
It seem like YOU're trying to do the same.

Our goal is to have Christ formed in us.
Whether or not that goal is achievable is a different idea.

Are you familiar with early church history?
Some wanted to wait till their dying breath to be baptized...
do you know why? (if you do, it would save me some typing).

Be perfect means something different.
If we could be perfect...how do you explain the fact that one could fall away from the faith?
How do you explain all the warnings Paul give to believers?

Even Jesus said to be perfect.
Do you really think Jesus was unaware of man's sinful nature?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The Bible actually answers Ernie’s question very plainly. A Christian is not someone with a label, an opinion, or based on how the word developed over church history. A Christian is someone who has been born again by faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). That is not about church tradition, feelings, or names, it is about a new birth that God produces.

The Bible never says baptism makes you a Christian, never says feelings make you a Christian, and never says a church title makes you a Christian. Scripture says, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved” (Romans 10:9). That is the moment someone becomes a Christian, when they repent and believe the gospel.

The believers in Antioch were first called Christians in Acts 11:26, not because of a cultural label, but because they actually followed Christ. It was obvious they belonged to Him. That is the same test today. If you are in Christ, you are a Christian. If you are not, then the name means nothing. The question is not what men think “Christian” means, the question is whether you have been made new in Christ.

The baptised are under the roof of the Church. they are not outside of such !

Confessing so called with your mouth to others means nothing in regards Christ Jesus, it's much deeper than just that truly.

The, Shalt be saved ? is one shall be Saved or is on the right track to become Saved ! just saying things is worthless, if one does not truly understand.

No one get Saved by blind faith ? Oh you of little faith is not the ends ! but that of the faith that can move mountains is the key !
for without the faith that can move mountains one is not Saved ! Seek ! one seeks for years on the road, no one come direct in understanding in just one day. that's just so shallow !

One who has little faith is in hope to be set on the road to solid faith that can move mountains.
but with faith, as the Bible points out regarding how the seed falls is the issue, some sprout up directly but for it falles on rocky ground etc. or the weeds of this world choke such !

I seen this with most people who went to church about 90% of such people have came to me and said, do you still believe all that crap do you !
I say well yes I do in fact and far more so than ever !
Such blowes them away !

For they are so Proud of their demands, that such was all just crap !
but no one as abused me for such.
so they still have little faith ?
only that the weeds are, the cares of this world ! that have growen over and strangled such faith.

But one is like a tree who has faith that can move mountains, that the weeds can not choke !

Repenting does not mean one is Saved. but for one who is trying to get on the Path ? this is in hope to gain strength to deal with the Issues they are lacking !

One who is Saved has a good handle on Sin, so does not step into such so easy ? but all Humans do Sin, only one has evolved not to be dominated under such a curse. due to Grace !

If one does not have Grace, then one does not have Christ Jesus within you ! = not Saved ! but of This world that one serves, so such a one not of the Kingdom of God in fact !

In the Bible Their is a list of who can not enter into the Kingdom of God ! for such are not worthy to enter in fact ! for they are a provoking house ! Gays etc are clearly of this world for they have pride of this world ? they turn back to their own vomit ! they do not abide in Christ Jesus and that's a fact ! regardless how this world loves to promote any such, such temptings only are so as to lead you astray, They claim you will go to Heaven ? but if you can not make the list regarding the Kingdom of God ! is one taking the risk on what people love to say in this world ?

I just went to a funeral of a good mate of mine of over 50 years and I did not know who they were talking about ? he clearly had a demon in him, he was a total moron for years on drugs and selling such ! When I pointed out such to him was wrong, he claimed he was helping them ! seriously ! that's how smashed out he was ! I helped him out of such.

He always believed that he was going to Heaven idolising the BS line regardless, yes he believed in the BS, so he took the path to drugs !
all is good as long as you believe the BS of the religions of this world.
No wonder Nations are in the mess and will only get worse. because gutless cowards love to be backsliding.
I ask were is their Virtue ! they are clearly lacking in fact ! such is who are clearly only promoting a Nation full of back slinding dingbats !

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Is there Keys to a Happy Life?

Some say I’ll be happy when....

What makes you happy may not make someone else happy.

What if you still strive to reach certain goals but at the same time you decide to have contentment, joy and happiness right now not later?

The keys to our happiness is maybe something we decide to have right now.
- Some people find a lot of happiness when they give to others.
- Some people find a lot of happiness when they start their day asking themselves.. What are a couple things and I can be thankful for today?

Does anyone have any ideas they would like to share?


Hebrews 13:5 Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.”

1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient and kind, Love is not jealous. it does not brag, does not get puffed up,

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. NIV Bible

Seeking to be Happy ? is total BS !

If one wants to be Happy just take drugs ?

Life Is not about being Happy ! period !

It's about being content and mature ! abiding in Christ Jesus will give one Grace ! so you will not be lead astray, like a dog chasing it's tail !

All fools believe that money will make you happy ! It's the idiots on TV and bastard school system etc casting deceptions on peoples weak minds ! creating delusions with such foolish idiot deceptions !

 

[walter]

Seeking to be Happy ? is total BS !

Thank you for your input, I guess some people look at things differently...

one person looks at it one way and another in a opposite way.

 

[Iina]

This is really going to depend on your theology. I believe you become a Christian proper (as opposed to a person who attends a church, an outward member of the flock) is when you are brought to trust in Christ as savior by grace, through faith. There is no gap between obtaining faith and being a Christian, nor is one (inwardly, really) a Christian if they have not been given faith.

 

[walter]

Most all religions believe in a afterlife.

What is the Hope for Our Dead Loved Ones?

“If a man die, shall he live again?” asked the man Job long ago. (Job 14:14, King James Version) You, too, may have wondered about this. How would you feel if you knew that a reunion with your loved ones was possible right here on earth under the best of conditions?

—Isaiah 26:19; Psalm 37:29, Romans 6:23, John 5:28-29, Matthew 5:5

Acts 24:15 having hope toward God, which these also themselves look for, that there shall be a resurrection both of the just and unjust. American Standard Version

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
English Standard Version

 

[walter]

Does anybody have any experiences they would like to share about when they extended kindness to another person and it really worked out positively?

 

[walter]

Should we take into account just a few scriptures or all the scriptures?

I get it that Hell is a everlasting punishment, but where does the scriptures explain that a person's physical body or spiritual body is alive and can feel pain for eternity.

1. Does the Bible explain that we are alive in this punishment or does the Bible explain they are destroyed and perish and vanish away?

2. Does the bible explain we will feel pain for eternity?

3. Does the Bible explain all people get everlasting life? Or does Jesus say only a few find life? Matthew 7:13-14

4. If a person is destroyed and is eternally dead separated from God and everyone, isn't that a eternal punishment?
[ See Jude 7 The Bible says Sodom and Gomorrah received judicial punishment of everlasting fire. Is these cities still burning eternally? No. Should we take "Eternal Fire" Literally? ]

5. Judgment Day has not happened yet, Jesus explains: The hour is coming.... John 5:28-29 So those from Sodom and Gomorrah may not have been judged yet. See scriptures below, Jesus says I will resurrect them on the last day.
Acts 17:31, Revelation 20:12-13, Isaiah 26:19, Acts 24:15, Gen. 3:19, John 6:40, 6:44, 6:54, 11:24,
Jesus also says he will judge on the last day --John 12:48

This person is not of my faith, but he explains Hell fire better than I could ever do. With this 4-minute video.

If you want to see more proof: Click the Spoiler below

Spoiler: Click for more reasoning points

6. Matthew 25:41 is prepared for the devil and his angels not humans.

7. Revelation 14:10 ....They will be tormented with burning sulfur 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.

8. Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. American Standard Version

Note: “Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them . . . are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” The fire that destroyed those cities had stopped burning long before Jude wrote his letter. But the permanent, “everlasting” evidence of that fire’s destructiveness remained, for those cities continued nonexistent.

Should we reason that all the other scriptures should not be included in our understanding?
The Bible explains these ones: shall be cut off, will be no more, will not be found, will vanish away, be destroyed,
will perish. but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, everlasting contempt, Plus Jesus says only few are finding life, not everyone finds life. --Matthew 7:13-14

For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. --Psalm 37:95
King James Bible

Yet a little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. --Psalm 37:10 Berean Standard Bible

New King James Version
But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. --Psalm 37:20

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the LORD will possess the land.--Psalm 37:9 New Living Translation

Those who do evil will perish. But those who wait on the LORD will inherit the land. --Psalm 37:9 International Standard Version

John 3:36
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Berean literal Bible

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. New King James Version


Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. --Matthew 7:13-14
Berean Standard Bible

 

[GodsGrace]

Wow GG, this is a bigger 'elephant of a post' than I complained to bdavidc about sending. Do you know what the 8 said to the 0? "Tighten your belt."

I am not a dichotamist, I am a trichotomous.
Adam was the first son of God. (Luke 3:38). He was created with the christ spirit' in him, that Jesus was born with. And Adam was created a triune being to begin with. God created dirt, formed that dirt into a dead human body. He then breathed a spirit into that body. It was a spirit born from the Holy Spirit ("that which is born of/from the Spirit is spirit").

The spirit is the ANIMATING life-force of the body. With that spirit the dead 'BRAIN/soul, began to function as a LIVING 'mind, will, emotions'. The 'mind' soul was led of the spirit from first breath and the body obeyed the 'will emotions' function of the soul making man an immortal "living soul". That changed when Adam quit being led of the spirit and was tempted by "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life" (the 3 root sources of every sin a man commits).
That's when Adam's soul went from being a "living soul", to a 'dying soul', but still a triune being.

Dichotamists needed to take anatomy, like I did. And then study their bibles a bit harder.
JAM 2:26 For as the body without the (divine spark) spirit (from God) is dead,

That's my answering just your first question. One elephant bite.

If the spirit is the animating life force...
how come even non believers have this life force?

Good, we will just have to agree to disagree. I already proved Jesus wasn't perfect ,just sinless. And proved he became perfect, the same way we're supposed to become perfect. I posted scriptures for that too.
Moving on.

It's good that you're moving on because it is NOT Christian theology that Jesus was not born perfect...
Jesus WAS BORN PERFECT.....
Theology teaches that for the atonement to function...
it required a PERFECT MAN
and GOD.
Jesus was both.

24 years ago a church elder and we heard a joke at a conference in Dallas with Jack Taylor. He said; "When MAN , decided to invent THEOLOGY, which means 'the study of GOD', I'm pretty sure God looked at the angels and said; "OH BOY, this ought to be good." And 40,000+ denominations prove that point to be true.

This is why SOLA SCRIPTURA does not function.
Better minds than ours have laid the foundation for Christianity and its teachings.
Not us.

I already gave my 'verse backed' answer in post 31.
ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,

You misunderstand the verse.
Jesus took on flesh...the likeness of flesh.
There are no verse that state that Jesus was born with the sin nature.

Hebrews 4:15
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot * sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus could be tempted...
but had no sin.
He had no sin because the sin nature was not present in Him.

The "Son" of the triune God was "the spirit of Christ" which was IN "Jesus the christ". It was that spirit which made Jesus the Messiah. It wasn't His sin natured flesh which came from Mary IMO. I assume you would agree, unless you believe in the 'immaculate conception' like the Roman Catholics teach and believe.

I believe in the IC.
God DID NOT place His Son in the body of a sinful woman.

As for you saying "Can God have sin in Him." you are just 'assuming' incorrectly about my position. Scripture says Jesus was "made like his brethren (brothers in Christ) in EVERY RESPECT . Us being born with a sinful flesh nature, just like Jesus; Does NOT mean Jesus ever gave in to 'that nature' and committed a sin? NO! NO! NO!

Christian theology teaches that Jesus did not have a sin nature when He was born.
It is not POSSIBLE for God to have sin in Him...
either in heaven or when He was on earth.
It's really blasphemous.

He overcame that sin nature and told us to do it the same way HE did. He is our pattern son for us to become "manifested sons of God"

We can SUPPRESS the sin nature...
but we will never OVERCOME it.
Until glorification ..... that is our death.

ROM 8:19* For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;

This was way too long of a post for me, and I'm quitting now. I'm 76 and just flunked my dementia test at my last physical. 2 years ago I took it and was dx. with a cognitive decline score of 25 out of 30. Last month I scored 19....dementia.

LOL
Pretty funny.
I don't need to take any dementia test.
I have a granddaughter that reminds me that I'm getting on in years.
This diagnosis of hers saves me lots of time by being diagnosed by HER instead of some doctor!

Thanks for the convo....

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for your input, I guess some people look at things differently...

one person looks at it one way and another in a opposite way.

LOL
He's really not wrong!
Read it again...

I think what the other poster is saying is that we may not be happy
(and no one can be all the time)

But we can certainly be joyful to know our Lord.

This is a true statement.
Happiness is fleeting...
you get a new car...
you feel happy for a week or so - maybe not even.

Joy lasts forever and is grounded in the knowledge that we are children of God...
whether we have a new car or not.