When exactly do you become a Christian?

[Lambano]

The Baptist church I went to as a teen taught that every Christian should be able to put a date and a time and a place on when they were "born again"

The paradigm, of course, is Saul of Tarsus being struck blind on the road to Damascus and hearing a voice from Heaven telling him to stop kicking against the pricks.

 

[GodsGrace]

The paradigm, of course, is Saul of Tarsus being struck blind on the road to Damascus and hearing a voice from Heaven telling him to stop kicking against the pricks.

Wow.
Yeah.
I'd remember that too.
Except I don't know how to ride a horse.
So deprived.
God must find another way...

 

[Lambano]

2. Why would doubts come?

Why do you think @Ernie asked the question?

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you think @Ernie asked the question?

Who's Ernie?
What question?

My attention span is shorter than yours!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you think @Ernie asked the question?

Just kidding...
after lunch.

 

[Lambano]

Except I don't know how to ride a horse.

A motorcycle would be more practical in the city anyway.

 

[quietthinker]

That's all very nice and beautiful.

But we were discussing the Christian faith....
Is seeing Jesus as the objective of God's declaration of Himself sufficient to be known as a Christian?

Apparently you don't believe it's important for CHRISTIANITY to have an objective set of beliefs to which one must agree.

It's OK.

Not many on these Forums do.
But it does not bode well for Christianity.

It is not possible to get a consensus of Christian belief if the implications of the foundation upon which the belief is built are glossed over, unclear, minimised or otherwise distorted.

Jesus is the pivotal centre of the entire Universe. John 1 is clear on this. This same Jesus shared our flesh and blood so that we humans of all cultures can see God's nature ie, his character and his objectives.....a nature and character which through the centuries had been distorted and misrepresented to the point that the God of creation was unrecognisable.

 

[GodsGrace]

A motorcycle would be more practical in the city anyway.

Hey, hey,
I don't live in the city!

This is about 30 minutes north of me....

BUT
Bikers do love it up there.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you think @Ernie asked the question?

Without re-reading the OP, due to my short attention span -
I'd say that this church @Ernie goes to is not such a good church.
They seem to want some kind of PROOF that I became born again at some such time as that it happened.

Which would seem to indicate that a person MUST have an experience to verify the born again condition.

THIS idea is nowhere to be found in the NT...
so it's safe to say that it is an unbiblical idea.

And I did respond to this in a serious manner, but we won't repeat.
Something about how different persons come to believe in God in different ways.

 

[Behold]

Post the scripture by Jude.
'night.

Jude 1:4

The verse teaches that these people subverted the Gospel.

How?

They twist the Grace of God, so that it is falsely perceived as "licence to sin".........So, once that has become your viewpoint, which is to have become deceived by this teaching..... then whenever you hear the Gospel taught correctly as God's Grace, = that keeps you saved, and sinless, and forgiven....then your mind will tell you...>"they are teaching that they can do anything they want, with no consequences"......as that is what happens to the mind of a Christian when their faith is "subverted" by this demonic teaching.

Simply put...... this teaching makes God's Grace, SOUND like "Licentiousness"......JUDE teaches.

These are the same Gnostic Jews who said that Paul's Gospel was teaching "license to sin"........but the NT version of that phrase is...." you are teching that we are to sin so that Grace may come"...

 

[Lambano]

Hey, hey,
I don't live in the city!

This is about 30 minutes north of me....

BUT
Bikers do love it up there.


View attachment 70531

Pretty! Reminds me of Colorado.

 

[Lambano]

Without re-reading the OP, due to my short attention span -
I'd say that .....

It's not that, as far as I can tell. I think this is more about the need for certainty. Part of that is knowing whether one's "born-again" experience was the real deal.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is not possible to get a consensus of Christian belief if the implications of the foundation upon which the belief is built are glossed over, unclear, minimised or otherwise distorted.

Jesus is the pivotal centre of the entire Universe. John 1 is clear on this. This same Jesus shared our flesh and blood so that we humans of all cultures can see God's nature ie, his character and his objectives.....a nature and character which through the centuries had been distorted and misrepresented to the point that the God of creation was unrecognisable.

The FOUNDATIONS are VERY clear...
it's just that some don't care to know them.

God has been distorted ---- yes.
Christianity has been distorted --- yes.

Right now, at this point in my life, these 3 topics are of interest to me:

1. The unbiblical belief of OSAS which is possibly leading some to damnation.

2. The unbiblical belief of the reformed/calvinist teachings due to their fatalistic and hopeless teachings.

3. The watering down of Christianity as to cause it to be unrecognizable.

 

[quietthinker]

The FOUNDATIONS are VERY clear...
it's just that some don't care to know them.

God has been distorted ---- yes.
Christianity has been distorted --- yes.

Right now, at this point in my life, these 3 topics are of interest to me:

1. The unbiblical belief of OSAS which is possibly leading some to damnation.

2. The unbiblical belief of the reformed/calvinist teachings due to their fatalistic and hopeless teachings.

3. The watering down of Christianity as to cause it to be unrecognizable.

and where is Jesus?

 

[GodsGrace]

It's not that, as far as I can tell. I think this is more about the need for certainty. Part of that is knowing whether one's "born-again" experience was the real deal.

Agreed.
And why would anyone be less certain just because they cannot remember the day/date of their salvation?
This would place more importance on the experience than the result...
And then we'd have to discuss HOW one can know they are saved.
I did list a couple of different ways a person could come to be a believer.

A born again experience is real if it changes someone's life and makes it better.
It's real if we keep God close to us and we do not lean on our own understanding but acknowledge Him.

It's satan that causes doubt.
We should never give him the glory.

We go by our knowledge...
not by our feelings.

 

[GodsGrace]

and where is Jesus?

Is Jesus not the being that taught about the above?
Is He not the one that began His church and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail?
Are we not taught that in the last days many would fall from faith believing doctrines of demons?

What kind of question are you asking?
Jesus is God.
Where do YOU think He is?

 

[GodsGrace]

Jude 1:4

The verse teaches that these people subverted the Gospel.

How?

They twist the Grace of God, so that it is falsely perceived as "licence to sin".........So, once that has become your viewpoint, which is to have become deceived by this teaching..... then whenever you hear the Gospel taught correctly as God's Grace, = that keeps you saved, and sinless, and forgiven....then your mind will tell you...>"they are teaching that they can do anything they want, with no consequences"......as that is what happens to the mind of a Christian when their faith is "subverted" by this demonic teaching.

Simply put...... this teaching makes God's Grace, SOUND like "Licentiousness"......JUDE teaches.

These are the same Gnostic Jews who said that Paul's Gospel was teaching "license to sin"........but the NT version of that phrase is...." you are teching that we are to sin so that Grace may come"...

I'm sorry Behold.
The gnostics DID teach that sinning was OK because it was THE BODY doing this and not the soul.

But there were different types of gnostics.

OSAS IS a license to sin.
Because it teaches that we can do anything,,,live in any way we want to and still be saved.
This must sound very nice to some persons....not all of course.

We're still tempted and thinking we can do anything we wish to WILL encourage making incorrect choices in life.

Besides the fact that OSAS is not biblical.

 

[Hillsage]

Perhaps you were reading an article about CHURCHIANITY.....

I wish you would have just asked for a definition and we could have moved on. I just asked.

Definition of CHURCHIANITY

a usually excessive or narrowly sectarian attachment to the practices and interests of a particular church… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I don't know Hillsage....
this is the entire POINT of my post to you.

If Christianity had a set belief system you would NOT have had to ask me the above questions to which I replied:
THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT.

And my entire point started with ERNIE (the first poster) asking; "When does one become a Christian?" and no one has given a biblical def. for the word "Christianity". They've all been different religious opinions. Some coming from denominational disagreements in THE CHURCH. And Jesus never mentioned more than the ONE that He was building.

Sure.

But that doesn't solve the problem I'm presenting.

And I answered all 5 of your points including OSAS. Granted I answered with enough of an answer that I am going to assume, you don't know where I am coming from. And yet you haven't asked me to elaborate on any of them. Yet anyway.

I DO realize that you probably don't care to discuss this and I might have misunderstood your post.
It's OK.
No problem.
Not many are as concerned about this as I am.

Concerning the dilemma of ERNIE I am truly concerned, and he has truly been absent. As for his question, which I had actually never even considered, until now? I am still very concerned. But, not so much for me anymore. I am actually more concerned now, for THE CHURCH.

 

[GodsGrace]

I wish you would have just asked for a definition and we could have moved on. I just asked.

Definition of CHURCHIANITY

a usually excessive or narrowly sectarian attachment to the practices and interests of a particular church… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

And my entire point started with ERNIE (the first poster) asking; "When does one become a Christian?" and no one has given a biblical def. for the word "Christianity". They've all been different religious opinions. Some coming from denominational disagreements in THE CHURCH. And Jesus never mentioned more than the ONE that He was building.

We just might be on the same page.
Unfortunately I don't go through an entire thread so sometimes it takes a couple of posts...

I'm sorry for our @Ernie .
He has his problems - and don't we all in one way or another.

As far as I'm concerned, being saved is very simple:
1. Believe in God.
2. Obey Him.

That's being SAVED.
But it does not mean one is CHRISTIAN.

That's a different story.
There is no definition for being a Christian in the bible.
The definition was worked out over a span of time.

The definition of a Christian would be that one has to accept one of the creeds.
They all define what Christians are supposed to believe....at different times of revelation.

For instance...it was known from the beginning that Jesus was the Son of God and that He was divine.
But how?
It took time to work this out and we ended up with the Trinity-----which is in the bible, both OT and NT, but its explanation
was another matter.

So a Christian has to believe that Jesus is God and human...the hypostatic union...the Trinity.
A Christian also has to believe that one must be baptized...
That Jesus was born sinless...
That He created everything...
born of Mary and the Holy Spirit...
and that He died as an atonement for our sins.

But I see persons on these Forums with the defining word CHRISTIAN under their name and then they go on to debate
all of the above.

So...does being Christian actually mean anything...or can we just believe what we want to and still be defined as being Christian?

And I answered all 5 of your points including OSAS. Granted I answered with enough of an answer that I am going to assume, you don't know where I am coming from. And yet you haven't asked me to elaborate on any of them. Yet anyway.

LOL
I didn't ask you to elaborate because my point was that we should agree on these topics,,,
instead we don't.

I might go back and post something on each one...
but will we agree?

You see...this is the problem which has been bothering me lately.

Concerning the dilemma of ERNIE I am truly concerned, and he has truly been absent. As for his question, which I had actually never even considered, until now? I am still very concerned. But, not so much for me anymore. I am actually more concerned now, for THE CHURCH.

DITTO !
I also am very concerned for the church (small c).

And I don't know of a solution.

 

[GodsGrace]

Correction to above, I said; CHURCHIANITY (SIC)

Hey, SIRI what does (SIC) mean?

"So “sic” is a Latin adverb that is used to note when a quotation may not be correct in terms of spelling or grammar. It was first used in the English language in the late 1850s...."


Our city of 30,000 has to send out letters from the school district to parents in 28 different languages. I won't list all the cultures I've been exposed to as a doctor. Many had to bring their own interpreters to see me in 45 years of practice.


That's an empty statement IMO. Don't know what you're saying that means to you. But for me 'True' Christianity does not oppose itself.


Only for the spirit. Not for the soul or the body.

So here are my replies:
You sound like a non-orthodox Christian....
maybe LDS.

So the above is for OSAS:
It doesn't exist in the bible...
not for the spirit, soul or body.

Do you believe Jesus sinned because He was water baptized in John's baptism, which was a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins?

The NT teaches that we are to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.
You're questioning it....maybe...not sure.
Jesus did not require baptism...
but we do.

He is the "son of man" after His flesh, He is the "son of David" after His soul, and He is the "son of God" after His spirit (spirit of christ NOT the Holy Spirit of the Trinity).

When Jesus said; JOH 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'?
Do you believe you're a GOD and a son of God? I do.

No. I don't believe I'm a God or a god.
LDSs do.

YES to both questions. Some just aren't as qualified as much as others to be doing so.

Agreed.
We're all fruit inspectors.

If you mean the word Christian, it really doesn't matter WHEN, it matters what it MEANT. And we've had a number of differing opinions. WHY is that?


Can't answer, because no one here has quoted a verse to even define the word. But translators have led all astray by capitalizing the C. And that's pretty much divided me from everyone here. That's OK to me though.

HEB 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Answered.