When the Son of Man Comes:

[ewq1938]

 

[Keraz]

Jesus describes the resurrection as all being resurrected together with different destinies.

Yes, the Judgment of everyone who has ever lived will happen after the Millennium, Revelation 20:11-15

Any ideas of a general resurrection before then, is false and cannot happen.

 

[Jay Ross]

In verse 28, Daniel wrote that he thought deeply about it all but kept his thoughts to himself. Daniel did not have, what we have in Revelation, so it was not really possible for him to figure it all out.

And we have the Book of Revelation and many so called commentators like you have still not figured it out as can be seen in what you regularly post.

Daniel 7:2-12,15-18 talks about four specific heavenly host beasts.

Between verse 17 and verse 18 of Daniel 7, there is a period of 1,000 years where the beasts of Daniel 7:2-12 have been imprisoned and there is peace upon the face of the earth from the influence of the five mentioned beasts in these verses.

Daniel 7:19-27 talks about two beasts, the four faceted beast which is a combination of the four beasts of Daniel 7:2-12, and the Little Horn which will also be present during the little while period and roaming the earth and we are told in Revelation that they will rise up out of the earth from the Bottomless pit when it is unlocked at the beginning of the Little While period.

Two years after his recorded vision in Daniel 7 he has another vision which he recorded in Daniel 8, where he writes about the period from the death of Alexandra the Great up and until the time when the beasts of Daniel 2-12 are judged and their influence over the sea of humanity is curtailed for a summer season of 1,000 years while a great harvest of souls takes place on the earth.

Then there is a Little While Period of around 24 years in duration, when the four faceted beast and the Little Horn, also labelled as the False Prophet in the Book of Revelation, which Daniel also described in Daniel 7:19-26 which ends badly for the four faceted beast and the Little Horn in verse 26: -

'But the court shall be seated,​

And they shall take away the little horn's dominion,​

To consume and destroy it forever {at the end of this Little While time period}.​

After which, we are told in the Book of Revelation, Satan is also judged, and his dominion is taken away from him as well.

Then in verse 28 we have the judgement of all of the peoples of the earth and the righteous receiving possession of all of the earth under the heavens and the unrighteous being dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

Goodbye

PS: - you are presenting a Darwinian evolutionary progression of how we today have a better understanding of the scriptures. Sadly, in your case, you do not.

 

[Jay Ross]

The promises that God makes in those verses are end times. And will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000 year millennium reign of Christ.

But in your presented understanding of the End Times, you have introduced, unwittingly, a second 1,000-year period because of your linear misunderstanding of the Book of Revelation.

The beginning of the end times was when Israel became a nation again in the land of Israel in May 14, 1948.

Douggg, you know that this is not so. The Summer Season of the harvest of souls, including the souls of the Israelites, does not take place until a further 96 years passes after the Fig tree buds fresh leaves, which I agree happened in 1948. The visitation of the iniquities of the fathers on their children and the children's children does not end until the fourth age of this visitation comes to its conclusion. That happens 96 years after 1948.

Also, the completion, of the Trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts by the Gentile nations, has not happened yet as is evidenced by the increasing Antisemitism occurring around the world. The 2,300 evenings and mornings, which is understood to have a duration of 2,300 years, in line with the usual understanding of a year for a day in Daniel's prophecies, has not yet come to its completion which will also occur 96 years after 1948.

One small misunderstanding of God's prophetic words leads to many more misunderstanding which are scattered throughout what you post on this forum and been embedded within your charts and diagrams.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 7:2-12,15-18 talks about four specific heavenly host beasts.

Between verse 17 and verse 18 of Daniel 7, there is a period of 1,000 years where the beasts of Daniel 7:2-12 have been imprisoned and there is peace upon the face of the earth from the influence of the five mentioned beasts in these verses.

In Daniel's dream, he saw four beasts (verse 3) come out of the sea. The sea represents the nations.

The four beasts represent four kings (verse 17) and their four kingdoms (verse 23). The four kings arise out of the earth (verse 17) not out of heaven, i.e. the four kings are not heavenly hosts.

first beast - lion - Babylonian kingdom, Nebuchadnezzar
second beast - bear - Medo-Persian kingdom, Cyrus
third beast - leopard - Greek kingdom, Alexander
fourth beast - unnamed (perhaps a dragon) - Roman kingdom, the little horn

Daniel 7:19-27 talks about two beasts, the four faceted beast which is a combination of the four beasts of Daniel 7:2-12, and the Little Horn which will also be present during the little while period and roaming the earth and we are told in Revelation that they will rise up out of the earth from the Bottomless pit when it is unlocked at the beginning of the Little While period.

Jay, what "four faceted beast" ? You need to provide a scriptural reference and explain. Also what verse in Revelation are you basing that has four beasts ascending from the Bottomless pit.

 

[Douggg]

View attachment 57769

ewq1938,

I read this at Wikipedia (Bethany search),

"Some believe that the present village of Bethany does not occupy the site of the ancient village; but that it grew up around the traditional cave which they suppose to have been at some distance from the house of Martha and Mary in the village; [Domenico] Zanecchia (La Palestine d'aujourd'hui, 1899, I, 445f.) places the site of the ancient village of Bethany higher up on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives, not far from the accepted site of Bethphage, and near that of the Ascension. It is quite certain that the present village formed about the traditional tomb of Lazarus, which is in a cave in the village... The site of the ancient village may not precisely coincide with the present one, but there is every reason to believe that it was in this general location."

 

[Jay Ross]

In Daniel's dream, he saw four beasts (verse 3) come out of the sea. The sea represents the nations.

That is how the Reformation Fathers characterised Daniel 7:2-12, but if you look carefully at the text what is described by Daniel is the manifestations of beasts under the influence of the respective four heavenly beastly entities, rising up out of the se of humanity,in an effort to demonise the RCC and the Pope.

The four beasts represent four kings (verse 17) and their four kingdoms (verse 23). The four kings arise out of the earth (verse 17) not out of heaven, i.e. the four kings are not heavenly hosts.

first beast - lion - Babylonian kingdom, Nebuchadnezzar
second beast - bear - Medo-Persian kingdom, Cyrus
third beast - leopard - Greek kingdom, Alexander
fourth beast - unnamed (perhaps a dragon) - Roman kingdom, the little horn

Douggg, are you suggesting that the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are a linear progress of the four heavenly beasts' manifestations of themselves? That it is possible to identify that progression of the manifested beasts as you have done?

What I see in your list is the progressive manifestation of only the third beast, which has four heads and whose dominate characteristic is dominion power over other nations. This list was developed from the Statue prophecy in Daniel 2 and the four beast was assumed to the Roman Empire because these four empires had had dominion over the kingdom of Israel.

The Reformation Fathers had fudged the storyline as the fourth nation entity to have dominion over the land of Babylon did not exist, during their lifetime, as the land of Babylon had been devastated and desolated from around 120 BC up and until 1926 AD, when the nation of Iraq was established to hold dominion over the land of Babylon by the British and the French.

Jay, what "four faceted beast" ? You need to provide a scriptural reference and explain. Also what verse in Revelation are you basing that has four beasts ascending from the Bottomless pit.

Revelation 13:1-4: - 1 Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea. There were ten royal crowns on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads. 2 The beast I saw was like a leopard, with the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.​

​

3 One of the heads of the beast appeared to have been mortally wounded. But the mortal wound was healed, and the whole world marvelled and followed the beast. 4 They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?”​

​

Does that help you understand that the description of the single beast that rises as a manifestation out of the sea, is a description of all of the four beasts of Daniel 7:2-12 acting as a single entity with four facets that reveal the four beast of Daniel 7:2-12 depending on which facet you look through when observing the beast.
​

Daniel 7:19-20: - 19 "Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.​

Daniel 7:19-20 also tells us the same as Revelation 13 about a single entity acting together which was made up from the four beastly entities of Daniel 7:2-12.

We have now another six hundred years of history to help us understand the scriptures and what they men.

Goodbye.

​

 

[ewq1938]

ewq1938,

I read this at Wikipedia (Bethany search),

"Some believe that the present village of Bethany does not occupy the site of the ancient village; but that it grew up around the traditional cave which they suppose to have been at some distance from the house of Martha and Mary in the village; [Domenico] Zanecchia (La Palestine d'aujourd'hui, 1899, I, 445f.) places the site of the ancient village of Bethany higher up on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives, not far from the accepted site of Bethphage, and near that of the Ascension. It is quite certain that the present village formed about the traditional tomb of Lazarus, which is in a cave in the village... The site of the ancient village may not precisely coincide with the present one, but there is every reason to believe that it was in this general location."

"Some believe" from Wiki is not evidence. "The site of the ancient village may not precisely coincide with the present one, but there is every reason to believe that it was in this general location." also disputes the claim that the village moved.

Also, this was taken from a Catholic source. It is just posted in the Wiki:




According to the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913, there have been scholars who questioned whether al-Eizariya was the actual site of the ancient village of Bethany:

Some believe that the present village of Bethany does not occupy the site of the ancient village; but that it grew up around the traditional cave which they suppose to have been at some distance from the house of Martha and Mary in the village; [Domenico] Zanecchia (La Palestine d'aujourd'hui, 1899, I, 445f.) places the site of the ancient village of Bethany higher up on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives, not far from the accepted site of Bethphage, and near that of the Ascension. It is quite certain that the present village formed about the traditional tomb of Lazarus, which is in a cave in the village... The site of the ancient village may not precisely coincide with the present one, but there is every reason to believe that it was in this general location."[16]

 

[Douggg]

Does that help you understand that the description of the single beast that rises as a manifestation out of the sea, is a description of all of the four beasts of Daniel 7:2-12 acting as a single entity with four facets that reveal the four beast of Daniel 7:2-12 depending on which facet you look through when observing the beast.

Jay, the beast out of the sea in Revelation 13:1 having 10 horns and 7 heads, is also described in Revelation 12:3 and Revelation 17:3.

Revelation 17:3 - at the time of John
10 horns - no crowns
7 heads - no crowns

Revelation 12:3 - at the beginning of the 7 years
10 horns - no crowns
7 heads- crowns, little horn person has come to power right before the 7 year 70th week begins. Prophecy of the 7 kings completed.

Revelation 13:1 - at the beginning of final 42 months of the 7 years.
10 horns - crowns, to rule with the beast-king, king 8 of Revelation 17:11
7 heads - no crowns, the little horn person has been killed and brought back to life as king 8. Prophecy of the 7 kings over.

The composite make-up of the beast ((Revelation 13:2) means that with 42 months to go in the 7 years, the fourth beast of the end times, the EU, will have gained control of the territories once held by the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, and Greek empires.

Douggg, are you suggesting that the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 are a linear progress of the four heavenly beasts' manifestations of themselves? That it is possible to identify that progression of the manifested beasts as you have done?

There are no four heavenly beasts in Daniel 7.

 

[Douggg]

Also, the completion, of the Trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts by the Gentile nations, has not happened yet as is evidenced by the increasing Antisemitism occurring around the world. The 2,300 evenings and mornings, which is understood to have a duration of 2,300 years, in line with the usual understanding of a year for a day in Daniel's prophecies, has not yet come to its completion which will also occur 96 years after 1948.

The 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 is days, not years.

 

[Jay Ross]

The 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 is days, not years.


View attachment 57782

Have it your way but your understanding is wrong. Simply and plainly wrong.

 

[Douggg]

Have it your way but your understanding is wrong. Simply and plainly wrong.

Jay, how can I be wrong when the text (verse 14) says "days". And that the little horn person is time of the end (verse 17) ?

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, how can I be wrong when the text (verse 14) says "days". And that the little horn person is time of the end (verse 17) ?

Actually, the Hebrew text state Evenings and Mornings, if you check the Root word meanings, however, the KJV translators have chosen to use the word "day" instead of the expression of "evenings and mornings." Could the Maccabees 1 and 2 Books have influenced the understanding of what Daniel had written with the KJV translator and so come to the wrong conclusion and context.

The historical record shows that the trampling of God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts has last 365.25 times longer than just the 2,300 days.

We know that Satan is a deceiver, and this is one of many examples where Satan has been relatively successful with regards to the time span or entity being prophesied about.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

Actually, the Hebrew text state Evenings and Mornings,

Whether expressed as Evenings and Mornings which represents days or the word days itself, it does not matter. 2300 days, not years.

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SDA, Seven Day Adventists, universally apply days in prophecy as years - based on the one time that days are said to represent years, in Ezekiel 4:4-8. They make their erroneous application to support their view that the pope/papacy is the little horn/antichrist.

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Jay, are you SDA ?

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, are you SDA ?

They are not idiots, they would not want me, or listen to what I have to say re the fact that the beasts of Daniel 7 are wicked heavenly hosts, that are called the four winds of heaven in Daniel 7:2 and 8:8 and that they stir up the sea of humanity such that out of the sea manifests people groups and empire that exhibit the dominate characteristic of the respective beast that they are manifesting.

These people groups and empires ebb and flow in and out of the influences that the respective beasts have within their respective dominions.

Douggg, are you that old that you are one of the founding fathers of the reformation with their flawed understandings.

Goodbye

 

[Keraz]

Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24
Then they cleaned and rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

Fulfilled Prophecy, of no significance to the end times, excepting as a repeat of the Temple desecration. Matthew 24:15
Placing 2300 days or whatever; in an end times chart, just makes for worse confusion and error.