When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[WPM]

I asked you to provide witnesses who say Stephen ascended into heaven and you say you witnesses Stephen ascension,?

How did you see Stephen ascend into heaven,?

Read the Word. Accept the witness of the Word instead of what do you have been taught.

 

[WPM]

So your saying Abraham Isaac and Jacob never died and are not buried like the Bible says?

Genesis 49:29
Then Jacob instructed them, “Soon I will die and join my ancestors. Bury me with my father and grandfather in the cave in the field of Ephron the Hittite.


Why did Jacob say he would soon die and to bury him?

Hello! His body died, His spirit went into heaven. I showed you the records of heaven populated before the coming of Christ and you ducked around them.

 

[tailgator]

Read the Word. Accept the witness of the Word instead of what do you have been taught.

There is no witness that Stephen ascended into heaven.No.one ever saw it happen.

 

[tailgator]

Hello! His body died, His spirit went into heaven. I showed you the records of heaven populated before the coming of Christ and you ducked around them.

The holy spirit God gave him.ascenddd into heaven
Jacob died and was buried just like Abraham and Isaac.



Genesis 49:29
Then Jacob instructed them, “Soon I will die and join my ancestors. Bury me with my father and grandfather in the cave in the field of Ephron the Hittite.


You say Abraham ascended into heaven. The Bible says Abraham was buried.One of you is wrong.

 

[tailgator]

Hello! His body died, His spirit went into heaven. I showed you the records of heaven populated before the coming of Christ and you ducked around them.

Have you been given the gift of the holy Spirit?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


Then there is the resurection when the spirit is put back in.


Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.



Notice God says he will bring them up out of their graves?That's because they are not hanging out in the sky when he brings them up out of their graves.They were not with God when they are in their graves.

 

[FaithWillDo]

If you all can think deep enough in the Holy Spirit, aka the mind of Christ, you will discover just exactly what the NEW "earth" is, that Jesus inherited,....along with Eternal Life.
Hmmm....are you thinking??
Where would it be necessary for the "Righteousness of God" to permanently dwell?
In an earth? Or in that which is OF earth?
John 2:18-21

Heb. 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Do you dare to believe it?

Dear Earburner,

Yes, the spirit word "earth" is a symbol for mankind's carnality and in the verse 2Cor 4:7, an "earthen vessel" represents a body of flesh.

Consider how "earth" and "heaven" are used in the verses below:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pet 3:7 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up (fire is the symbol for judgment).

2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Add this concept presented in the verse below to to the meanings of "earth" and "heaven" to help complete your understanding.

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The words "earth" and "heaven" are spiritual terms and they should be applied "within" (spiritually) mankind. Spirit words do not apply out in the world (outwardly and physically). If you apply the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant in an "inward" manner, the truth of Christ will begin to make better sense and it will eliminate contradictions with other scripture. I can't stress this enough.

Here is what I see with the spirit words "earth" and "heaven" as the verses above use them:

The Natural (Old) Earth represents mankind's carnal spiritual nature. The New Earth represents the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit.

The symbol "earth" is synonymous with the spirit word "heart". The natural heart is wicked and the new heart is one governed by the Holy Spirit.

The Natural (Old) Heaven represents mankind's carnal mind. The New Heaven represents the mind of Christ.

Many times in scripture it does not identify which "earth" is being used in a verse. To understand which one is being used, it requires spiritual discernment.

Look again at Isa 26:9:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the (New) EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Only the New Earth (one governed by the Holy Spirit) teaches righteousness to the believer (their mind). As it teaches righteousness to the believer's mind, the mind is being transformed into the mind of Christ.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Now look at this verse again:

2Pet 3:7 But the (natural) heavens and the (natural) earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment (Day of the Lord) and perdition of ungodly men (children of the devil/all mankind).

The judgment of Christ (Day of the Lord) is what destroys the carnal spiritual nature (Natural Earth) and the carnal mind (Natural Heavens). After they are destroyed, the believer will only have a New Earth and a New Heaven as shown in Rev 21:1 as it describes the Bride/New Jerusalem/Elect/Heirs/saints/First Fruits.

Does this make sense to you?

Joe

 

[WPM]

Dear Earburner,

Yes, the spirit word "earth" is a symbol for mankind's carnality and in the verse 2Cor 4:7, an "earthen vessel" represents a body of flesh.

Consider how "earth" and "heaven" are used in the verses below:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pet 3:7 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up (fire is the symbol for judgment).

2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Add this concept to to the meanings of "earth" and "heaven" to help complete your understanding.

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The words "earth" and "heaven" are spiritual terms and they should be applied "within" (spiritually) mankind. Spirit words do not apply out in the world (outwardly and physically). If you apply the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant in this manner, the truth of Christ will begin to make better sense and it will eliminate contradictions with other scripture. I can't stress this enough.

Here is what I see with the spirit words "earth" and "heaven" as the verses above use them:

The Natural (Old) Earth represents mankind's carnal spiritual nature. The New Earth represents the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit.

The symbol "earth" is synonymous with the spirit word "heart". The natural heart is wicked and the new heart is one governed by the Holy Spirit.

The Natural (Old) Heaven represents mankind's carnal mind. The New Heaven represents the mind of Christ.

Many times in scripture it does not identify which "earth" is being used in a verse. To understand which one is being used, it requires spiritual discernment.

Look again at Isa 26:9:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the (New) EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Only the New Earth (one governed by the Holy Spirit) teaches righteousness to the believer (their mind). As it teaches righteousness to the believer's mind, the mind is being transformed into the mind of Christ.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Now look at this verse again:

2Pet 3:7 But the (natural) heavens and the (natural) earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment (Day of the Lord) and perdition of ungodly men (children of the devil/all mankind).

The judgment of Christ (Day of the Lord) is what destroys the carnal spiritual nature (Natural Earth) and the carnal mind (Natural Heavens). After they are destroyed, the believer will only have a New Earth and a New Heaven as shown in Rev 21:1 as it describes the Bride/New Jerusalem/Elect/Heirs/saints/First Fruits.

Does this make sense to you?

Joe

No. This is complete nonsense. This is Origenism gone crazy.

 

[WPM]

Have you been given the gift of the holy Spirit?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


Then there is the resurection when the spirit is put back in.


Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.



Notice God says he will bring them up out of their graves?That's because they are not hanging out in the sky when he brings them up out of their graves.They were not with God when they are in their graves.

Do you have a soul and spirit?

 

[grafted branch]

And we know the church consists of both Jew and Gentile believers.

I completely agree, but just as Paul went to the Gentiles, Peter went to the Jews.

The second thing to note about that passage is that Peter says "in time past" they "were not a people, but are now the people of God". That's not something he would say to Jews. The Jews were the people of God before Christ brought Jew and Gentile believers together as one body. Look at the passage from Ephesians 2 above. Paul had previously talked about how the Gentiles were formerly "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" (Eph 2:11-12), but "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God". So, Jew and Gentile believers together were formerly not the people of God because Gentiles were "without God in the world", but now are "fellowcitizens". Formerly not the people of God, but now they are. Clearly, that includes Gentile believers.

That absolutely is something he would say to Jews but wouldn’t say to Gentiles. In 1 Peter 1:1 he wrote to the diaspora which is always referring to Jews elsewhere in the Bible. Even though many Jews remained scattered and unable to fulfill the old covenant requirements of “the people of God”, they were indeed “the people of God” under the new covenant.

If Peter was referring to Gentiles then we would have to conclude that Gentiles had no part in the old covenant, they were not a people of God. However both ethnic Jews and Gentiles were part of the old covenant, only those people who didn’t participate in the old covenant requirements were not in the “household of God”. Under the new covenant a person didn’t have to assimilate into the 12 tribes and therefore they could remain physically strangers and foreigners but be spiritually fellow citizens in the same house with all other believers.

Ephesians 2:19 certainly can’t be referring to literal strangers and foreigners because these conditions still physically exist today.

Then there is the following passage, also:

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Paul is quoting from Hosea. In Hosea 1:9, Hosea’s wife Gomer had a son and God said call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. This is not spoken to Gentiles, it was spoken to the Jews.

Do you have a reference where God says to the Gentiles “you are not my people”? And where was the place that this was said?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I completely agree, but just as Paul went to the Gentiles, Peter went to the Jews.

In person. This did not prevent them from writing letters to both Jews and Gentiles. Paul called himself "the apostles to the Gentiles" (Romans 11:13). Does that mean all of his letters were addressed only to Gentiles and not to Jews, also? Of course not! So, this argument you're making here cannot be used to prove the audience of 1st Peter was only Jews.

And, again, Peter's description of them in 1 Peter 2:5-6 as being a spiritual house with Jesus as its cornerstone is a description of the church. It's similar to what Paul described in Ephesians 2:19-22 and the church obviously includes both Jew and Gentile believers. So, that was Peter's audience. Jew and Gentile believers in the church. That is obvious. And I already said this to you before and you noticeably avoided addressing it. Why is that?

That absolutely is something he would say to Jews but wouldn’t say to Gentiles. In 1 Peter 1:1 he wrote to the diaspora which is always referring to Jews elsewhere in the Bible. Even though many Jews remained scattered and unable to fulfill the old covenant requirements of “the people of God”, they were indeed “the people of God” under the new covenant.

If Peter was referring to Gentiles then we would have to conclude that Gentiles had no part in the old covenant, they were not a people of God. However both ethnic Jews and Gentiles were part of the old covenant, only those people who didn’t participate in the old covenant requirements were not in the “household of God”. Under the new covenant a person didn’t have to assimilate into the 12 tribes and therefore they could remain physically strangers and foreigners but be spiritually fellow citizens in the same house with all other believers.

Ephesians 2:19 certainly can’t be referring to literal strangers and foreigners because these conditions still physically exist today.

You're not making any sense. In Romans 9:24-26 Paul specifically included Gentiles as being among those who were formerly not the people of God, but now are the people of God. This is very obvious. That is indicated in Ephesians 2:11-22 as well where Paul said the Gentiles were formerly aliens and strangers to the covenants of promise and without God in the world, but now "are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God".

Paul is quoting from Hosea. In Hosea 1:9, Hosea’s wife Gomer had a son and God said call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. This is not spoken to Gentiles, it was spoken to the Jews.

Do you have a reference where God says to the Gentiles “you are not my people”? And where was the place that this was said?

Do you not understand by now that many of the references in the Old Testament that seemed to only refer to the Jews applies to Gentiles as well? Yes, that was a mystery back then, but it's not now! Why is it still a mystery to you? Have you never read this:

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

God's plans for the Gentiles to be His people and be fellowheirs with Israelite believers were hidden in OT times but were revealed in NT times. What excuse do you have for His plans to still be a mystery to you?

As for your question, I showed you Romans 9:24-26. Paul included Gentiles in the context of his reference to Hosea 1:9. Can we not trust Paul to have known what he was talking about? And what about Ephesians 2:11-22? Should we ignore how Paul said the Gentiles were formerly "without God in the world" but are now part of God's household? If that doesn't describe the Gentiles as formerly not being the people of God, but now being the people of God together with Israelite believers, I don't know what does.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. This is complete nonsense. This is Origenism gone crazy.

We are dealing with complete insanity on this forum. It's almost unbelievable. I think some of these people must be cult members.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There is no witness that Stephen ascended into heaven.No.one ever saw it happen.

LOL. Do you think Stephen was mistaken then for believing that Jesus would receive his spirit in heaven? Why do you have such a low opinion of Stephen that he wouldn't understand what happens after physical death? I know he understood that and that's why he said what he did. You are the one denying what Stephen indicated would happen once he physically died, which is foolish.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

What do you think, that Jesus said "Nah, that's okay. I don't allow people's souls or spirits to go to heaven."? No, I'm sure He received Stephen's spirit just as Stephen asked Him to because Stephen understood what happens when people physically die, unlike you.

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,

Yes, the spirit word "earth" is a symbol for mankind's carnality and in the verse 2Cor 4:7, an "earthen vessel" represents a body of flesh.

Consider how "earth" and "heaven" are used in the verses below:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

2Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pet 3:7 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up (fire is the symbol for judgment).

2Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Add this concept to to the meanings of "earth" and "heaven" to help complete your understanding.

1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The words "earth" and "heaven" are spiritual terms and they should be applied "within" (spiritually) mankind. Spirit words do not apply out in the world (outwardly and physically). If you apply the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant in this manner, the truth of Christ will begin to make better sense and it will eliminate contradictions with other scripture. I can't stress this enough.

Here is what I see with the spirit words "earth" and "heaven" as the verses above use them:

The Natural (Old) Earth represents mankind's carnal spiritual nature. The New Earth represents the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit.

The symbol "earth" is synonymous with the spirit word "heart". The natural heart is wicked and the new heart is one governed by the Holy Spirit.

The Natural (Old) Heaven represents mankind's carnal mind. The New Heaven represents the mind of Christ.

Many times in scripture it does not identify which "earth" is being used in a verse. To understand which one is being used, it requires spiritual discernment.

Look again at Isa 26:9:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the (New) EARTH, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Only the New Earth (one governed by the Holy Spirit) teaches righteousness to the believer (their mind). As it teaches righteousness to the believer's mind, the mind is being transformed into the mind of Christ.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Now look at this verse again:

2Pet 3:7 But the (natural) heavens and the (natural) earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment (Day of the Lord) and perdition of ungodly men (children of the devil/all mankind).

The judgment of Christ (Day of the Lord) is what destroys the carnal spiritual nature (Natural Earth) and the carnal mind (Natural Heavens). After they are destroyed, the believer will only have a New Earth and a New Heaven as shown in Rev 21:1 as it describes the Bride/New Jerusalem/Elect/Heirs/saints/First Fruits.

Does this make sense to you?

Joe

Yes! I agree 100%.
Thanks for sharing your spiritual discernment, that God's Holy Spirit has given you.
I earnestly believe that ALL born again Christians should understand how we are to live in the "The Mind of Christ", which is how we walk in the Spirit of Him who is performing His works through us, and that not of ourselves, by our own human will.

That is I why I often quote 1 Cor. 2:5
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [authority] of God.
l strongly urge all professing Christians to study and digest all of 1 Cor. ch. 2.

 

[Phoneman777]

I could not possibly care less about that. I get truth from scripture, not Tyndale. In your false doctrine, God is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because He is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matt 22:32).

Once again, you side with catholicism's "truth" and oppose Protestantism, just like a good Jesuit.

No, the words of Jesus calling God the God of the living are not there to prove the dead are already in heaven, they're there to prove the resurrection. Those who say the opposite "stealeth Christ's argument wherewith He proveth the resurrection."

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.

 

[Phoneman777]

LOL. Do you think Stephen was mistaken then for believing that Jesus would receive his spirit in heaven? Why do you have such a low opinion of Stephen that he wouldn't understand what happens after physical death? I know he understood that and that's why he said what he did. You are the one denying what Stephen indicated would happen once he physically died, which is foolish.

Words mean things. It doesn't say "Stephen" went to heaven.

What do you think, that Jesus said "Nah, that's okay. I don't allow people's souls or spirits to go to heaven."? No, I'm sure He received Stephen's spirit just as Stephen asked Him to because Stephen understood what happens when people physically die, unlike you.

It's YOU who doesn't understand what happens when people die! You're own words indicate you don't understand the difference between a "soul" and "spirit" - allow me to educate you:

According to Genesis 2:7 KJV, the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath (Spirit) of Life. At death, the Body returns to dust, the Spirit to God, and the Soul goes out of existence aka "sleep the sleep of death" until the Resurrection of the Just or Resurrection of the Damned where damned Souls are doomed to die the Second Death which is permanent death, everlasting death, eternal death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

 

[ReChoired]

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

The spirit of God in Stephen is simply his last breath and does not belong to him, but to God who gave it, on loan (Act. 17:25; Pro. 22:7).

Job_27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;​

​

Ecc_8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.​

​

Ecc_12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.​

It is not alive, conscious, or anything like that.

​

Psa_146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.​

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?​

Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:​

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.​

Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!​

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.​

Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.​

​

Job_20:11 His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down with him in the dust.​

 

[WPM]

We are dealing with complete insanity on this forum. It's almost unbelievable. I think some of these people must be cult members.

Exactly. They have to go online to promote their extremism because no one around them (in real life) takes them serious.

I wonder how many of them actually go to a local church and are accountable to a leadership or assembly? I get the impression, probably very few.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hello! How about opening your Bible first?

There's so much error here, like the mosquito at the nudist colony, I'm not sure where to begin ;)

Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31

If we make this passage literal, that introduces many Bible contradictions.

The just are clearly “comforted” here. The lost are clearly “tormented” here.

The "comforted" are the church who have the Comforter. The "tormented" are the Jews upon whom "wrath has come upon upon them to the uttermost".

But it talking about the man in hell sending someone to his brothers who were still physically alive and warning them about the flames. This can't be after the coming of Christ.

Correct, which proves it's not a literal passage, but a parable: The only two kinds of bodies the Bible knows about are the mortal "earthly house" and the resurrection "building of God".

These dead guys are clearly post mortem but are not yet resurrected, yet they have eyes, tongues, fingers, bosoms, legs to carry a warning, etc., which only makes sense if it's a parable, in which things happen that cannot and do not happen in real experience.

Jesus said to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Ancient texts had zero punctuation. The comma can go before or after "today". Now, the Septuagint has "today" modified by the verb it precedes only 50 times, but by the verb it follows 170 times! So, the majority use of the word suggests the comma should go after "today":

"I say unto you today, shalt thou be with Me..."

The Immortal Soul crowd shouldn't point to neutral texts as "proof" for their ideas that simply isn't there.

Stephen’s spirit was separating from his body and went to be with God. However, his body was going to the grave.

Yes, the Spirit returned to God, the Body to dust, and the soul "Stephen" went to "sleep" aka "passed out of existence" until the resurrection where he'll come back into existence.

2 Corinthians 5:8

In verses 2-4, Paul says Christians groan for relief from life's burdens, but "not for that we would be unclothed". So, the relief they want isn't by becoming "naked" and "unclothed" but "clothed upon".

What does this mean?

True Christian scholars who don't cowardly run past inconvenient texts will unavoidably conclude that "naked" and "unclothed" can mean only one thing: resting in peace naked and unclothed without a body in the grave awaiting the resurrection.

Verse 8 is simply Paul saying he prefers to be absent from the burdens of this mortal body - skip lying in the grave RIP without a body - and just going on to be with the Lord - not naked - but in his resurrection body, which he knew didn't happen at death, but at "the last trump".

having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ

Again, Paul knew "be with Christ" happens not at death, but "at the last trump" and since "the dead lie there accounting neither days nor years, but when they have awaked, they shall have seemed to have slept scarce one minute" (Martin Luther) - then yes, it will seem to anyone who wakes up to be with Christ coming in the clouds that they departed only moments before.

Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Paul's not saying "we live together with Jesus while we're dead".

He's saying: Jesus died, so that, whether we're alive and remain or sleeping in the grave at His coming, we should have the opportunity to live with Him as resurrected saints.

that they may rest from their labours

They're "naked" and "unclothed" without a body RIP in the grave awaiting resurrection, which Paul knew would happen to him despite his desire to be absent from the body, skip that, and be present with Jesus.

we see 24 Elders around the throne in heaven. Who are they?

Some say they're among "many of the bodies of the saints which slept" while variant readings suggest beings from unfallen worlds, but they're definitely not "disembodied souls" of dead saints.

Also, in Revelation 7 we see several references to 144,000 in heaven that have been redeemed from off the earth.

These are saints Jesus came and resurrected at the Second Coming.

Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.”

These, again, are the saints that Jesus resurrected at the Second Coming.

Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, “I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge

This symbolic passage in the most symbolic book is symbolic for the divine justice crying out to be done on behalf of martyred saints.

Look, if you guys refuse to believe the truth that souls cease to exist at death, then at least acknowledge "disembodied souls" can't cry out because - being "disembodied" - they don't have vocal cords.

“And white robes were given unto every one of them

Since "judgment must being at the house of God" which is the church, the Pre-Advent Judgment deals first with those who were deemed "heretics" and put to death to determine if they were indeed guilty, and "white robes" is symbolic of these "heretics" being found sincere followers of Jesus.

and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

Also Pre-Advent.

Revelation 15:1-3 says, “I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast

Everyone knows Revelation isn't in chronological order because - unlike here in the West - the Hebrew mindset puts a story's climax in the middle, then continues, often with subsequent details rhymed thematically with preceding details in a "chiasmus" or "X" literary device style. So, verse 1 starts the revelation about the plagues, verses 2-4 are the climax, and verse 5 picks up the story and continues with subsequent details.

Again, this relates to the intra-Advent period.

There is no "intra-Advent". Jesus comes, takes the saints home to New Jerusalem for 1,000 years to judge wicked men and angels and leaves behind a destroyed, desolate Earth, then New Jerusalem comes down as the wicked resurrect to judgment and are found guilty and cast into the LOF, after which Jesus remakes the heaven and Earth.

Revelation 7:9-14

This is after the Second Coming/First Resurrection.

 

[JLB]

There is no need for a future Temple to be built to fulfill this AOD prophecy, as it has already been fulfilled in 70 a.d. when the Roman army surrounded, and then destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

A good understanding of Daniel, which is what Jesus said, when He taught us about these things in Matthew 24, is needed.


Next once a person understands that the prophecy from Daniel, which directly refers to the AOD, contains the destruction of the city and temple, in 70 AD, but also refers to the 70th week containing a temple for animal sacrifices to be performed is crucial.


Then and only then, can a person understand from which OT scriptures the was teaching from.

IOW, there is the destruction of the city and sanctuary in 70 AD, in which the Roman armies were involved, then there is the final battle at the end of the age, in which the city of Jerusalem is again surrounded by the armies of the nations, and Jesus Christ Himself will fight for them on the Day of the Lord.


Rightly dividing the scriptures that pertain to these things will result in a right understanding of this topic.

Here is the OT scripture, whereby the Spirit of Christ was speaking through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet about these things.
When the LORD became flesh, as the Messiah, and taught His disciples on the mount of Olives, He was quoting His own words from Zechariah.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west, making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.

It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light. Zechariah 14:1-7


This is the passage that Jesus was quoting when He said -


20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:20-24

 

[grafted branch]

Should we ignore how Paul said the Gentiles were formerly "without God in the world" but are now part of God's household? If that doesn't describe the Gentiles as formerly not being the people of God, but now being the people of God together with Israelite believers, I don't know what does.

In the thread “Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?” Post #568 you said “You need to read the New Testament. It repeatedly shows how Gentile believers were included in the covenants that God made with Israel.”

Here is the quote below …

You need to read the New Testament. It repeatedly shows how Gentile believers were included in the covenants that God made with Israel.

Now it appears you are arguing that Gentiles were excluded. Which is it? Did your position on this change?