Where does the Pope get his authority?

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The Learner

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KJV Revelation 13:18
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

View attachment 44589


666 is an ancient occult number originating it is believed in Babylon. View attachment 44590
check your name here: 666 Finder

 

The Learner

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"The Seventh-day Adventist Church has more than 18 million members worldwide, according to its website. In the past two decades, at least 525 people have lodged claims alleging child sexual abuse in the church, according to a report last year from its risk management organization.Aug 26, 2014" https://www.reuters.com/article/idU...million,from its risk management organization.

Clearly that is not represented of all SDAists.
 

Phoneman777

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No because:

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
What if he says all those things about the pope merely as an observation, and not in condemnation?
 
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Wick Stick

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These are precisely the reasonable arguments that I mentioned earlier...
Matthias LITERALLY succeeded (replaced) Judas; And he (Matthias) was numbered with the eleven apostles. Peter cites the Psalms (“May their camp be a desolation, let no one dwell in their tents” [69:25] and “May his days be few; may another seize his goods!” [109:8]) when they replaced Judas with Mathias. Is your theory that once Mathias is dead no one replaces him via a vote or appointment? Or when anyone that Mathias appoints to lead a church dies that person isn't replaced by a vote?
My belief is that nobody can make an apostle of Jesus Christ EXCEPT for Jesus Christ.

It's the definition of the thing. The King gives a writ of authority to His messenger allowing the messenger to act and give orders with the force and authority of the king himself. Whatsover you ask IN MY NAME... That writ is not transferable. The delegate cannot pass on the king's authority, certainly not for a hundred generations, and certainly not when the King remains ALIVE and ENTHRONED.

Matthias appointment was illegitimate. Jesus met Paul on the Damascus road and appointed His new apostle.
In 1 Timothy 1:6 and 4:14 Paul reminds Timothy that the office of bishop had been conferred on him through the laying on of hands. In 1 Timothy 5:22 that Paul advises Timothy not to be hasty in handing on this authority to others. In Titus Paul describes the apostolic authority Titus had received and urges him to act decisively in this leadership role. In 2 Timothy 2:2 Paul says to Timothy, And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. That's 3 generations of Apostolic Succession. Are you suggesting Paul thought it was ok for Apostolic Succession to end after 3 generations?

In Paul's letter to Titus he wrote: For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you—That passage means that an appointed elder who is succeeding Paul, Titus, is authorized to appoint elders in every city. Titus succeeds Paul and anyone that Titus appoints succeeds him etc etc.
A bishop is NOT an apostle. These are two different things. Bishops are legitimate authority figures in the church, and there certainly can be a succession of bishops. But a bishop who claims the authority of an apostle is a usurper.

It doesn't matter what YOU reject. I accept Scripture...not your opinion.
You seem to have taken offense... I did not come here to attack you or your beliefs. The hope was that we could have an exchange of ideas and both walk away better for the exchange.
 

Wick Stick

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They appeal to the Bible as the proof of that Apostolic Succession. If you question it, invariably they point you to the Bible for "thou art Peter, and upon this Rock..."
Sure, but that just means they're meeting you on your own terms.

When it comes right down to it, they believe that the Bible gets its authority from the Church, and not the other way round. Just ask them; they'll tell you so.
 

TheHC

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I know you have never gotten DIRECTLY involved with warfare because you have the luxury of not getting involved with warfare.
Luxury?!! Tell that to my brothers who are in prison for their neutral stand. But “we must obey God as ruler rather than men.” — Acts 5:29
If all men were as passive [peaceable] as your men…
there’d be no war.

All men would be like Christ while he was on earth. It would be peaceful!
God’s blessing would be everywhere.
 

BreadOfLife

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Dead Bread, you didn't answer the question.

BTW, let's be honest. If NAMBLA ever held a "Pastoral Pedophile Olympics" the papacy would win Gold, Silver, and Bronze before the rest of Christianity even finished lacing up their shoes.
Ummm - NOT according to the FBI, sparky.
Check your statistics . . .

In his book, Pedophiles and Priests, Protestant author, Philip Jenkins lays out all of the FBI, police and insurance statistics to reveal the following inconvenient truth:
The molestation problem in Protestant churches DWARFS what happened in the Catholic Church
.

It eas only because of the perceived wealth of the Catholic Church that lawyers descended upon it and ignored the problem in the smaller sects.

Do your homework . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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Jesus did not give any man the authority or power to persecute those that disagreed with him. That power, that authority, came from the emperor Justinian, which was later included in Roman law, and spread into Catholic canon law.
I OPENLY CJALLENGE you to show me a SINGLE instance of where a “persecutory” law spread to Canon Law.
If you can’t do this – then I expect an apology.

This kind of nonsense sets off the BS Meter every time . . .

Justinian’s ambitions to reunite the Roman Empire were matched by a desire to create complete ecclesiastical unity. Therefore, he also—so far as the West was concerned—“regarded his project somewhat as a crusade to rescue the Catholics from Arian rule.” To this end, he took a step quite contrary to the normal tendency at Constantinople: he decided to elevate the Roman pontiff over the entire church. According to several historians, the emperor stated this in a letter to Pope John II (b. ?–535, reigned from 533) in that pontiff’s accession year. Justinian said he had taken pains to unite all the priests of the Eastern church, subjecting them to the pope, “because you are the Head of all the holy churches (quia caput est omnium sanctarum ecclesiarum).” This decision was incorporated in the Civil Code. In various parts of it, the same idea is repeated—as in the 131st Novella, which states: “Hence, in accordance with the provisions of these Councils, we order that the Most Holy Pope of ancient Rome shall hold the first rank of all the Pontiffs, but the Most Blessed Archbishop of Constantinople, or New Rome, shall occupy the second place after the Holy Apostolic See of ancient Rome, which shall take precedence over all other sees.”

KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Elsewhere in scripture, the dragon is described as that power, Satan, that stood before the woman to kill the child as soon as he was born. This is clearly a reference to the attempts by the Roman puppet King Herod to kill Jesus as an infant. The child however as we know, survived and was taken to heaven, after which the woman, prophetically meaning the church, went into the wilderness to escape persecution. Satan could not personally persecute anyone. But he used agents to accomplish that instead. First were the Jews themselves through Saul who became Paul the apostle. Then the pagan Romans, then the Catholic emperors, especially Justinian, followed later by Roman pontiffs on the basis of the authority invested in them by Justinian.
They all represented the dragon, and did his work, and it was Justinian who granted the Pope his seat, his power, and great authority. That is where papal power came from. Petrine succession didn't enter into it, although succession of authority was an Italian tradition particularly among the aristocracy. Simony was also used on various occasions to secure the papal tiara, which Vigilius of that time did even while the former Pope Silverius was still alive. Interesting that while Silverius was canonized later, Vigilius is still recognised in the list of succession, supposedly after the invocation of the holy Ghost. Strange that God would arrange such a turn of events in order to establish the successor of Peter to the throne.
Funny, how you present the concocted “prophecies” from a proven FALSE prophet like your foundress, Ellen White - as if anybody else buys into this rubbish.

More SDA comedy . . .
 
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PGS11

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Ex cathedra has only been used once in the Catholic Church and he is only infallible in the faith and morals of the church. Everything else he is fallible. The one time it was used was that Mary was taken to heaven. The Pope is not a prophet his job is to lead the faithful and hold the faith of the church.Catholics are not at his command to do what ever he wants.
 

The Learner

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What if he says all those things about the pope merely as an observation, and not in condemnation?
If that is so, no problem. We all must be carefull

Matthew 15:17-19 New Living Translation (NLT)“Anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer. But the words you speak come from the heart—that's what defiles you. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander.
 
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The Learner

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Sure, but that just means they're meeting you on your own terms.

When it comes right down to it, they believe that the Bible gets its authority from the Church, and not the other way round. Just ask them; they'll tell you so.
Catholics absolutely believe in and respect the authority of Sacred Scripture. We believe that, from cover to cover, it is the inspired Word of God. Humans communicate with language and God, therefore, communicates with us in language. Everything contained in Scripture is known to be true, beautiful, and good. “For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body” (CCC #103). The Old and New Testaments are unified and dependent on one another for revealing who God is and how He has worked throughout human history. The Catechism quotes an ancient Christian saying attributed to St. Augustine to describe the unity of the two: “the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New” (CCC #129). It’s likely that you have heard someone say something along the lines of, “Catholics don’t read/study the Bible.” These days there are many, many Catholic-based Scripture studies and we host some excellent ones here at our very own parish. However, even Catholics who never pick up a Bible are still getting a healthy dose of Scripture if they are attending Sunday Mass every week. In our Mass, there are always two readings taken straight from Scripture – one from the Old and one from the New. Between those is a Psalm and following the second reading, there is always an excerpt from one of the Gospels. In addition, many of the prayers prayed during Mass are taken directly from Scripture. The readings are chosen by the teaching authority of the Church, allowing for two things to take place. One, every Catholic in the world is reading and hearing the same Scripture on the same day which unites us all under God’s Word. Secondly, if we continue to attend Mass, we will hear nearly the entire Bible read aloud, and we can continue hearing it in its entirety throughout our lives. So, what is the problem with using the Word of God as our only source of authority if it is so revered? The problem is us. Man is so fallible, that when left to his own devices, he will eventually lose sight of, or even destroy, the intended message contained within Scripture. You’ve seen it before, where someone misuses or twists a scripture passage, or you’ve seen things taken out of context while other pieces are deliberately left out or ignored because it does not fit within the argument. Knowing how fallible we are, God built in two other forms of authority into His Church in order to safeguard His Word.

Tradition

Our second source of authority is Tradition. Tradition is how we describe the way in which things have been understood throughout the history of Christianity, starting with the Apostles, and being handed down to today. The Apostles were closest to Christ and had very intimate knowledge of Him and His teachings. Not every single detail was recorded in Scripture, though. As they spread throughout the world, teaching and preaching, a new generation of Christians formed and took on the same understanding and practices that were handed down to them. We get our interpretation and understanding of what is contained in Scripture from those Christians who came before us, going all the way to the beginning with Jesus and His apostles. We also consider the early Church Fathers when we are looking to Tradition. Christians in the very earliest centuries did not have to suffer the distortions that arose over long periods of time, and thankfully, they’ve left us an abundance of writings to relay their understanding of faith to us. We can always turn to the early Church Fathers whenever we have a question about how or why things are done. Another point highly worthy of note regarding the relationship between Scripture and Tradition is that Tradition actually preceded Scripture. The Gospels and the epistles did not magically appear the second Jesus was resurrected. It took years for things to be written down and compiled, and the official canon of the Bible was not established until 382 AD at the Council of Rome. Therefore, the Apostles did not have New Testament Scripture from which to quote, interpret, and preach. They had their memories and their experiences to use as reference. Thus, in order to begin the work of the Church, namely to evangelize and convert others, it was necessary that they start from the authority of Tradition. So, if Christianity began with the handing down of Tradition before Scripture, how can others now say that “sola scriptura” is the only way?


Magisterium

Our final source of authority is the Magisterium, which is the teaching authority of the Church as an institution created by Jesus Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit. We see the Magisterium utilized for the very first time in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 15, as we read about the Council of Jerusalem. There was a disagreement among believers on whether or not Gentiles should be circumcised upon their conversion. Jesus had not given explicit instruction on the matter, nor was there Scripture beyond the Old Testament to direct them, so some understood it to be done one way, while others understood it another way. The Apostles, who we understand to be the first bishops, got together to discuss the issue. After debating different points of view and reviewing the Scripture they had, they came to an agreement and drafted a decree on official Church teaching. Shortly before this council was the feast of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Church, protecting her work of salvation which, no doubt, included these first efforts of the Magisterium. The Apostles then distributed the decree to all of the other factions of the Christian Church. We still see this practiced today, as we have throughout all of Church history. As issues and questions have come up in the Church regarding what we should do, how we should practice, what we should believe, and what Jesus intended – our bishops, cardinals, and popes have gathered under the protection of the Holy Spirit to discuss and debate God’s will for His Church under the guidance of Sacred Scripture. Then decrees are drafted and then promulgated by the Pope, enabling believers to know the official teaching on the issue. This is how the doctrine and dogmas have been developed and revealed to us over the years. Believing that the Magisterium (the teaching authority and not simply the men themselves) is protected by the Holy Spirit, believers are called to give their assent to the Church teaching, whether we fully understand it or not, because it has been determined to be true and God’s will.


Think of our three sources of authority as a three-legged stool.

 

RedFan

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Catholics absolutely believe in and respect the authority of Sacred Scripture. We believe that, from cover to cover, it is the inspired Word of God. Humans communicate with language and God, therefore, communicates with us in language. Everything contained in Scripture is known to be true, beautiful, and good. “For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body” (CCC #103). The Old and New Testaments are unified and dependent on one another for revealing who God is and how He has worked throughout human history. The Catechism quotes an ancient Christian saying attributed to St. Augustine to describe the unity of the two: “the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New” (CCC #129). It’s likely that you have heard someone say something along the lines of, “Catholics don’t read/study the Bible.” These days there are many, many Catholic-based Scripture studies and we host some excellent ones here at our very own parish. However, even Catholics who never pick up a Bible are still getting a healthy dose of Scripture if they are attending Sunday Mass every week. In our Mass, there are always two readings taken straight from Scripture – one from the Old and one from the New. Between those is a Psalm and following the second reading, there is always an excerpt from one of the Gospels. In addition, many of the prayers prayed during Mass are taken directly from Scripture. The readings are chosen by the teaching authority of the Church, allowing for two things to take place. One, every Catholic in the world is reading and hearing the same Scripture on the same day which unites us all under God’s Word. Secondly, if we continue to attend Mass, we will hear nearly the entire Bible read aloud, and we can continue hearing it in its entirety throughout our lives. So, what is the problem with using the Word of God as our only source of authority if it is so revered? The problem is us. Man is so fallible, that when left to his own devices, he will eventually lose sight of, or even destroy, the intended message contained within Scripture. You’ve seen it before, where someone misuses or twists a scripture passage, or you’ve seen things taken out of context while other pieces are deliberately left out or ignored because it does not fit within the argument. Knowing how fallible we are, God built in two other forms of authority into His Church in order to safeguard His Word.

Tradition

Our second source of authority is Tradition. Tradition is how we describe the way in which things have been understood throughout the history of Christianity, starting with the Apostles, and being handed down to today. The Apostles were closest to Christ and had very intimate knowledge of Him and His teachings. Not every single detail was recorded in Scripture, though. As they spread throughout the world, teaching and preaching, a new generation of Christians formed and took on the same understanding and practices that were handed down to them. We get our interpretation and understanding of what is contained in Scripture from those Christians who came before us, going all the way to the beginning with Jesus and His apostles. We also consider the early Church Fathers when we are looking to Tradition. Christians in the very earliest centuries did not have to suffer the distortions that arose over long periods of time, and thankfully, they’ve left us an abundance of writings to relay their understanding of faith to us. We can always turn to the early Church Fathers whenever we have a question about how or why things are done. Another point highly worthy of note regarding the relationship between Scripture and Tradition is that Tradition actually preceded Scripture. The Gospels and the epistles did not magically appear the second Jesus was resurrected. It took years for things to be written down and compiled, and the official canon of the Bible was not established until 382 AD at the Council of Rome. Therefore, the Apostles did not have New Testament Scripture from which to quote, interpret, and preach. They had their memories and their experiences to use as reference. Thus, in order to begin the work of the Church, namely to evangelize and convert others, it was necessary that they start from the authority of Tradition. So, if Christianity began with the handing down of Tradition before Scripture, how can others now say that “sola scriptura” is the only way?


Magisterium

Our final source of authority is the Magisterium, which is the teaching authority of the Church as an institution created by Jesus Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit. We see the Magisterium utilized for the very first time in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 15, as we read about the Council of Jerusalem. There was a disagreement among believers on whether or not Gentiles should be circumcised upon their conversion. Jesus had not given explicit instruction on the matter, nor was there Scripture beyond the Old Testament to direct them, so some understood it to be done one way, while others understood it another way. The Apostles, who we understand to be the first bishops, got together to discuss the issue. After debating different points of view and reviewing the Scripture they had, they came to an agreement and drafted a decree on official Church teaching. Shortly before this council was the feast of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Church, protecting her work of salvation which, no doubt, included these first efforts of the Magisterium. The Apostles then distributed the decree to all of the other factions of the Christian Church. We still see this practiced today, as we have throughout all of Church history. As issues and questions have come up in the Church regarding what we should do, how we should practice, what we should believe, and what Jesus intended – our bishops, cardinals, and popes have gathered under the protection of the Holy Spirit to discuss and debate God’s will for His Church under the guidance of Sacred Scripture. Then decrees are drafted and then promulgated by the Pope, enabling believers to know the official teaching on the issue. This is how the doctrine and dogmas have been developed and revealed to us over the years. Believing that the Magisterium (the teaching authority and not simply the men themselves) is protected by the Holy Spirit, believers are called to give their assent to the Church teaching, whether we fully understand it or not, because it has been determined to be true and God’s will.


Think of our three sources of authority as a three-legged stool.


The three-legged stool reminds me of Richard Hooker, who is reputed (incorrectly, I think) to have described Scripture, Tradition, and Reason as the legs of a stool. Anglicans and Episcopalians refer to the analogy regularly.
 
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Phoneman777

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Sure, but that just means they're meeting you on your own terms.

When it comes right down to it, they believe that the Bible gets its authority from the Church, and not the other way round. Just ask them; they'll tell you so.
We're all familiar with their claim, "The church is ABOVE the the Bible" - but if you ask them for "proof" of that, they invariably quote the Bible for it.
 

Phoneman777

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Ummm - NOT according to the FBI, sparky.
Check your statistics . . .

In his book, Pedophiles and Priests, Protestant author, Philip Jenkins lays out all of the FBI, police and insurance statistics to reveal the following inconvenient truth:
The molestation problem in Protestant churches DWARFS what happened in the Catholic Church
.

It eas only because of the perceived wealth of the Catholic Church that lawyers descended upon it and ignored the problem in the smaller sects.

Do your homework . . .
Dead Bread, I can post bold type, too! And make it giant, too!

Did you not see the movie Spotlight?

Have you any idea how many untold numbers of papal priest child sex abuse cases were settled "under the table" with no police arrests, no charges, no indictments, no courtroom trials...

...just private attorneys that helped turn catholic church child sex abuse into a "cottage industry" by coordinating with the papacy to hand out hush money to poor catholic families victimized by the sick perverted clergy of your death cult, after which they are transferred to other areas to continue the abuse.

Don't talk to me about "FBI records" while your church for decades has been sweeping it all under the rug so that THE ONLY ACCURATE RECORD OF PAPAL PRIEST CHILD SEX ABUSE IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOKS OF HEAVEN...RIGHT OR WRONG?


P.S. - ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN THE MOVIE "SPOTLIGHT" SHOULD DROP WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING AND WATCH IT RIGHT NOW.


 
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Brakelite

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Catholics absolutely believe in and respect the authority of Sacred Scripture. We believe that, from cover to cover, it is the inspired Word of God. Humans communicate with language and God, therefore, communicates with us in language. Everything contained in Scripture is known to be true, beautiful, and good. “For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body” (CCC #103). The Old and New Testaments are unified and dependent on one another for revealing who God is and how He has worked throughout human history. The Catechism quotes an ancient Christian saying attributed to St. Augustine to describe the unity of the two: “the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New” (CCC #129). It’s likely that you have heard someone say something along the lines of, “Catholics don’t read/study the Bible.” These days there are many, many Catholic-based Scripture studies and we host some excellent ones here at our very own parish. However, even Catholics who never pick up a Bible are still getting a healthy dose of Scripture if they are attending Sunday Mass every week. In our Mass, there are always two readings taken straight from Scripture – one from the Old and one from the New. Between those is a Psalm and following the second reading, there is always an excerpt from one of the Gospels. In addition, many of the prayers prayed during Mass are taken directly from Scripture. The readings are chosen by the teaching authority of the Church, allowing for two things to take place. One, every Catholic in the world is reading and hearing the same Scripture on the same day which unites us all under God’s Word. Secondly, if we continue to attend Mass, we will hear nearly the entire Bible read aloud, and we can continue hearing it in its entirety throughout our lives. So, what is the problem with using the Word of God as our only source of authority if it is so revered? The problem is us. Man is so fallible, that when left to his own devices, he will eventually lose sight of, or even destroy, the intended message contained within Scripture. You’ve seen it before, where someone misuses or twists a scripture passage, or you’ve seen things taken out of context while other pieces are deliberately left out or ignored because it does not fit within the argument. Knowing how fallible we are, God built in two other forms of authority into His Church in order to safeguard His Word.

Tradition

Our second source of authority is Tradition. Tradition is how we describe the way in which things have been understood throughout the history of Christianity, starting with the Apostles, and being handed down to today. The Apostles were closest to Christ and had very intimate knowledge of Him and His teachings. Not every single detail was recorded in Scripture, though. As they spread throughout the world, teaching and preaching, a new generation of Christians formed and took on the same understanding and practices that were handed down to them. We get our interpretation and understanding of what is contained in Scripture from those Christians who came before us, going all the way to the beginning with Jesus and His apostles. We also consider the early Church Fathers when we are looking to Tradition. Christians in the very earliest centuries did not have to suffer the distortions that arose over long periods of time, and thankfully, they’ve left us an abundance of writings to relay their understanding of faith to us. We can always turn to the early Church Fathers whenever we have a question about how or why things are done. Another point highly worthy of note regarding the relationship between Scripture and Tradition is that Tradition actually preceded Scripture. The Gospels and the epistles did not magically appear the second Jesus was resurrected. It took years for things to be written down and compiled, and the official canon of the Bible was not established until 382 AD at the Council of Rome. Therefore, the Apostles did not have New Testament Scripture from which to quote, interpret, and preach. They had their memories and their experiences to use as reference. Thus, in order to begin the work of the Church, namely to evangelize and convert others, it was necessary that they start from the authority of Tradition. So, if Christianity began with the handing down of Tradition before Scripture, how can others now say that “sola scriptura” is the only way?


Magisterium

Our final source of authority is the Magisterium, which is the teaching authority of the Church as an institution created by Jesus Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit. We see the Magisterium utilized for the very first time in the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 15, as we read about the Council of Jerusalem. There was a disagreement among believers on whether or not Gentiles should be circumcised upon their conversion. Jesus had not given explicit instruction on the matter, nor was there Scripture beyond the Old Testament to direct them, so some understood it to be done one way, while others understood it another way. The Apostles, who we understand to be the first bishops, got together to discuss the issue. After debating different points of view and reviewing the Scripture they had, they came to an agreement and drafted a decree on official Church teaching. Shortly before this council was the feast of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended upon the Church, protecting her work of salvation which, no doubt, included these first efforts of the Magisterium. The Apostles then distributed the decree to all of the other factions of the Christian Church. We still see this practiced today, as we have throughout all of Church history. As issues and questions have come up in the Church regarding what we should do, how we should practice, what we should believe, and what Jesus intended – our bishops, cardinals, and popes have gathered under the protection of the Holy Spirit to discuss and debate God’s will for His Church under the guidance of Sacred Scripture. Then decrees are drafted and then promulgated by the Pope, enabling believers to know the official teaching on the issue. This is how the doctrine and dogmas have been developed and revealed to us over the years. Believing that the Magisterium (the teaching authority and not simply the men themselves) is protected by the Holy Spirit, believers are called to give their assent to the Church teaching, whether we fully understand it or not, because it has been determined to be true and God’s will.


Think of our three sources of authority as a three-legged stool.

Mmmm. In conclusion. Whatever the church says the meaning of scripture is, then that is what it means, because tradition has been exercising it's authority in that way for a long time, and there is no-one alive to object because we killed them, and none of their writings exist today because we burnt them, which was the work of the holy Spirit protecting the truth.
In other words. The church is the final authority, regardless of how they say they respect scripture, because whatever scripture says, to whoever it said it to, the church has the final say on the meaning.
 
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Hobie

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Jesus did not give any man the authority or power to persecute those that disagreed with him. That power, that authority, came from the emperor Justinian, which was later included in Roman law, and spread into Catholic canon law.
Justinian’s ambitions to reunite the Roman Empire were matched by a desire to create complete ecclesiastical unity. Therefore, he also—so far as the West was concerned—“regarded his project somewhat as a crusade to rescue the Catholics from Arian rule.” To this end, he took a step quite contrary to the normal tendency at Constantinople: he decided to elevate the Roman pontiff over the entire church. According to several historians, the emperor stated this in a letter to Pope John II (b. ?–535, reigned from 533) in that pontiff’s accession year. Justinian said he had taken pains to unite all the priests of the Eastern church, subjecting them to the pope, “because you are the Head of all the holy churches (quia caput est omnium sanctarum ecclesiarum).” This decision was incorporated in the Civil Code. In various parts of it, the same idea is repeated—as in the 131st Novella, which states: “Hence, in accordance with the provisions of these Councils, we order that the Most Holy Pope of ancient Rome shall hold the first rank of all the Pontiffs, but the Most Blessed Archbishop of Constantinople, or New Rome, shall occupy the second place after the Holy Apostolic See of ancient Rome, which shall take precedence over all other sees.”

KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Elsewhere in scripture, the dragon is described as that power, Satan, that stood before the woman to kill the child as soon as he was born. This is clearly a reference to the attempts by the Roman puppet King Herod to kill Jesus as an infant. The child however as we know, survived and was taken to heaven, after which the woman, prophetically meaning the church, went into the wilderness to escape persecution. Satan could not personally persecute anyone. But he used agents to accomplish that instead. First were the Jews themselves through Saul who became Paul the apostle. Then the pagan Romans, then the Catholic emperors, especially Justinian, followed later by Roman pontiffs on the basis of the authority invested in them by Justinian.
They all represented the dragon, and did his work, and it was Justinian who granted the Pope his seat, his power, and great authority. That is where papal power came from. Petrine succession didn't enter into it, although succession of authority was an Italian tradition particularly among the aristocracy. Simony was also used on various occasions to secure the papal tiara, which Vigilius of that time did even while the former Pope Silverius was still alive. Interesting that while Silverius was canonized later, Vigilius is still recognised in the list of succession, supposedly after the invocation of the holy Ghost. Strange that God would arrange such a turn of events in order to establish the successor of Peter to the throne.
Hmm. looks like they moved this out into the 'badlands'...
 

Marymog

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Luxury?!! Tell that to my brothers who are in prison for their neutral stand. But “we must obey God as ruler rather than men.” — Acts 5:29
YES, luxury: a condition great ease and comfort according to the dictionary. And that is what you and your ilk enjoy by not fighting against/defending people who are attacking your home, Neiborhood, Town, State or Country....ease and comfort.

Your "brothers" knew they could potentially go to prison for their "stand". My "brothers" know they could potentially DIE or loose a limb or suffer life long PTSD because they took a "stand"! Cry me a river THC.........
 
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