Where does the Pope get his authority?

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Marymog

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All men would be like Christ while he was on earth. It would be peaceful!
God’s blessing would be everywhere.
Yup, there would be peace on earth if all men where like you and your men. But there is one little problem with your fantasy: Satan

So get out of your fantasy world. Read all of Scripture in context. Find a man among you like Moses who as long as his arms were raised his enemies were being slaughtered.
 
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Marymog

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Because they teach a different gospel.
Ummmm......All your Protestant denominations "teach a different gospel" sooooooooo doesn't that put you in the same category as the man you are criticizing?

You crack me up.........
 
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Brakelite

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I don't believe you know that all of Leviticus 23 was fulfilled by Christ. God's rest is ours as we abide in Him.
The annual feast days, eg Passover, Pentecost, feast of first fruits, etc (there were 7) weren't all fulfilled by Jesus. Pentecost was fulfilled 40 days after the Ascension. There were still 3 more after that... Feast of trumpets, Day of Atonement, and feast of tabernacles. What can you tell us of the fulfilling of those? All of them were closely linked to the sanctuary services and sacrifices. All therefore pointed in some way, or were types, of particular aspects of the ministry of Jesus, that ministry of redemption and salvation from sin... Some of them not fulfilled when He was alive. So all those feasts and annual Sabbaths were instituted at Sinai as a large predominant part of the remedy and solution to the sin problem.
What about the weekly Sabbath? That Sabbath was instituted before there ever was a sin problem. It wasn't instituted as a remedy for sin, as sin didn't then exist. So how could Jesus "fulfil" something that didn't point to Him? Sure, there is a rest connected with the Sabbath, but that had nothing to do with sin, it wasn't ever designed to be the remedy for sin, but simply a day sanctified for spending time with God and your fellow man, and an opportunity to minister to others. As said previously, a time to stop. A time to take stock. A time to recover spiritual energy through our relationship with Jesus. The weekly Sabbath was a gift, a blessing for our benefit and was an eternal gift as it will be remembered and observed even in the new earth. (Isaiah 66). And yes, Deuteronomy says the Sabbath was also a sign of redemption. Not a sign one needed redemption, but rather a memorial of it, just as the Sabbath was a memorial of creation.
,I OPENLY CJALLENGE you to show me a SINGLE instance of where a “persecutory” law spread to Canon Law.
If you can’t do this – then I expect an apology
BoL. Are you saying there is nothing in Canon law that supported the idea of inquisitions and the practise of killing those who refused to recant or confess to heresy?
Nothing in Canon that explains the steps to be taken in excommunicating heretics, taking the property, confiscating the land and destroying their homes and forbidding their children for several generations to demonstrate their faith in service? I'm shocked BoL. Forgive my presumption. On what basis then within the protocols of church governance were these vile murderous practises allowed?
 
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Brakelite

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Ummmm......All your Protestant denominations "teach a different gospel" sooooooooo doesn't that put you in the same category as the man you are criticizing?

You crack me up.........
Yes, there are variations in determining what the gospel is throughout Christendom. But I think what Bereans was saying was that Catholicism teaches a different gospel from scripture. As do many of the Protestant denominations. Although I believe we need to perhaps clarify what you mean by Protestant. For example. I would not classify the Episcopalians as protestants. Nor the Lutherans, the Anglicans, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, or many of the other independent or mainline non Catholic churches around. They all stopped protesting a long time ago. Not only did they stop protesting Catholic heresy, but they also ceased advocating for pro-testimony, that is upholding scripture alone as spiritual authority. Most now have capitulated from the benchmark of cleaving to and searching out of truth that was set by the 16th and 17th century reformers. Those modern so called Protestant denominations may now be classified as on the verge of becoming fully restored and fully welcomed back into the fold as fallen Harlots... All back home with Mother. But, praise the Lord, there are still some who are protesting and preaching the true and full gospel... And may God bless them as they remain faithful to scripture and to the cause of Truth.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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The annual feast days, eg Passover, Pentecost, feast of first fruits, etc (there were 7) weren't all fulfilled by Jesus. Pritchard was fulfilled 40 days after the Ascension. There were still 3 more after that... Feast of trumpets, Day of Atonement, and feast of tabernacles. What can you tell us of the fulfilling of those? All of them were closely linked to the sanctuary services and sacrifices. All therefore pointed in some way, or were types, of particular aspects of the ministry of Jesus, that ministry of redemption and suggestion from sin... Some of them not fulfilled when He was alive. So all those feasts and annual Sabbaths were instituted at Sinai as a large predominant part of the remedy and solution to the sin problem.
What about the weekly Sabbath? That Sabbath was instituted before there ever was a sin problem. It wasn't instituted as a remedy for sin, as sin didn't then exist. So how could Jesus "fulfil" something that didn't point to Him? Sure, there is a rest connected with the Sabbath, but that had nothing to do with sin, it wasn't ever designed to be the remedy for sin, but simply a day sanctified for spending time with God and your fellow man, and an opportunity to minister to others. As said previously, a time to stop. A time to take stock. A time to recover spiritual energy through our relationship with Jesus. The weekly Sabbath was a gift, a blessing for our benefit and was an eternal gift as it will be remembered and observed even in the new earth. (Isaiah 66). And yes, Deuteronomy days the Sabbath was also a sign of redemption. Not a sign one needed redemption, but rather a memorial of it, just as the Sabbath was a memorial of creation.
Good for you. Keep it. I'll fellowship with you. :hearteyes:
 
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BreadOfLife

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Dead Bread, I can post bold type, too! And make it giant, too!

Did you not see the movie Spotlight?

Have you any idea how many untold numbers of papal priest child sex abuse cases were settled "under the table" with no police arrests, no charges, no indictments, no courtroom trials...

...just private attorneys that helped turn catholic church child sex abuse into a "cottage industry" by coordinating with the papacy to hand out hush money to poor catholic families victimized by the sick perverted clergy of your death cult, after which they are transferred to other areas to continue the abuse.

Don't talk to me about "FBI records" while your church for decades has been sweeping it all under the rug so that THE ONLY ACCURATE RECORD OF PAPAL PRIEST CHILD SEX ABUSE IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOKS OF HEAVEN...RIGHT OR WRONG?


P.S. - ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN THE MOVIE "SPOTLIGHT" SHOULD DROP WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING AND WATCH IT RIGHT NOW.


Apparently, reading is yet another skill at which YOU are wotfully inept.

I specifically stated in my last post that the book Pedophiles and Priests lists the FBI and INSURANCE statistics. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those cases you are referring to was settled with money fro Diocesesan insurance policies.
And they STILL pale in comparison to what continues to go on in Protestant churches - even your bizarre SDA sect.

Or, did you forget about that??

Adventist Women's Ministries | Statement on Child Sexual Abuse


Healing the wounds of childhood sexual abuse - Adventist Record

Seventh-day Adventist Church Retaliates against Abuse Victim and her family.

Sex Abuse Cases: New Allegations | Adventist Today

Moncton woman sues Seventh-day Adventist Church over alleged sex abuse ...

Child sexual abuse - Adventist Record

Seventh-Day Adventist Child Molestation Lawsuit | SDA Sex Abuse Lawyer
 
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BreadOfLife

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KJV Revelation 13:18
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

View attachment 44589


666 is an ancient occult number originating it is believed in Babylon. View attachment 44590
Ummm - there's one GIGANTIC hole in your idiotic rant:
"Vicarius Fli Dei" is NOT an official title for the Pope.

His titles include:
- Bishop of Rome

-Vicar of Jesus Christ
-Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
-Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
-Primate of Italy
-Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
-Sovereign of the Vatican City State

-Servant of the servants of God

"Vicarius Fli Dei" was an invention from the warped mind of your moronic founder and goddess, Ellen White.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK . . .
 
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BreadOfLife

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BoL. Are you saying there is nothing in Canon law that supported the idea of inquisitions and the practise of killing those who refused to recant or confess to heresy?
Nothing in Canon that explains the steps to be taken in excommunicating heretics, taking the property, confiscating the land and destroying their homes and forbidding their children for several generations to demonstrate their faith in service? I'm shocked BoL. Forgive my presumption. On what basis then within the protocols of church governance were these vile murderous practises allowed?
As usual - you are confused.

You are conflating Canon Law with Civil Law. Canon Law doesn't speak of executions or confiscation oof property. Those were decrees handed down by governments - NOT the Church. Excommunication is a BIBLICALLY-BASED discipline.

If you knew your history, you would understand that heresy was simple bad for commerce and the common good. Rabble-rousers of ANY kink were frowned upon by governments because they disrupted the status quo.

For crying out loud - DO YOUR HOMEWORK . . .
 
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Brakelite

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As usual - you are confused.

You are conflating Canon Law with Civil Law. Canon Law doesn't speak of executions or confiscation oof property. Those were decrees handed down by governments - NOT the Church. Excommunication is a BIBLICALLY-BASED discipline.

If you knew your history, you would understand that heresy was simple bad for commerce and the common good. Rabble-rousers of ANY kink were frowned upon by governments because they disrupted the status quo.

For crying out loud - DO YOUR HOMEWORK . . .
What absolute total and complete garbage and lies. History testifies to the exact opposite and did not begin with Ellen White. The Waldenses were not rabble rousers, lazy, indolent, but were well known by the princes and rulers of those territories throughout Europe where they settled, to be industrious, honest, and Christian. By contrast, Rome chose to exterminate them through inquisitions and papal bulls denouncing them as heretics, but the local lords of the land were, despite being faithful Catholics and reluctant to disobey and upset the Pope, were even more reluctant to destroy the best and most noble of their populations.
To quote Wylie...
It was the year 1487. A great blow was meditated. The process of purging the Valleys languished. Pope Innocent VIII, who then filled the Papal chair, remembered how his renowned namesake, Innocent III, by an act of summary vengeance, had swept the Albigensian heresy from the south of France. Imitating the rigor of his predecessor, he would purge the Valleys as effectually and as speedily as Innocent III had done the plains of Dauphine and Provence. The first step of the Pope was to issue a bull, denouncing as heretical those whom he delivered over to slaughter. This bull, after the manner of all such documents, was expressed in terms as sanctimonious as its spirit was inexorably cruel. It brings no charge against these men, as lawless, idle, dishonest, or disorderly; their fault was that they did not worship as Innocent worshipped, and that they practiced a "simulated sanctity," which had the effect of seducing the sheep of the true fold, therefore he orders "that malicious and abominable sect of malignants," if they "refuse to abjure, to be crushed like venomous snakes." To carry out his bull, Innocent VIII appointed Albert Cataneo, Archdeacon of Cremona, his legate, devolving upon him the chief conduct of the enterprise. He fortified him, moreover, with Papal missives to all princes, dukes, and powers within whose dominions any Vaudois were to be found. The Pope especially accredited him to Charles VIII of France, and Charles II of Savoy, commanding them to support him with the whole power of their arms. The bull invited all Catholics to take up the cross against the heretics; and to stimulate them in this pious work, it "absolved from all ecclesiastical pains and penalties, general and particular; it released all who joined the crusade from any oaths they might have taken; it legitimatized their title to any property they might have illegally acquired, and promised remission of all their sins to such as should kill any heretic. It annulled all contracts made in favor of Vaudois, ordered their domestics to abandon them, forbade all persons to give them any aid whatever, and empowered all persons to take possession of their property."

To place the blame entirely on secular rulers to exterminate heresy is just lunacy, when one considers such as the above, crusades bring arranged with promises of indulgences and riches to anyone who killed a heretic. Those promises didn't come from the prince, they came from Rome.

The pious and Christian character of the Waldensian people was, for centuries, a direct testimony against the character and hatred of Rome against them. It was unreasonable, malicious, and evil. And you blame civil law!!! How blind you are.

So it wasn't civil law that justified those persecutions, what laws then were the popes using? What laws justified the killing of heretics, the confiscation of property, and indulgences granted to the killers?
 

Brakelite

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If you knew your history, you would understand that heresy was simple bad for commerce and the common good. Rabble-rousers of ANY kink were frowned upon by governments because they disrupted the status quo.
You don't seem to appreciate that the Waldenses for example were not just a few scattered rabble rousers that caused the locals a headache. The Waldenses populated a great area of Europe, and some historians estimate the numbers to be in excess of 800,000.
"One of the earliest dates in the martyr-history of this people is 1332, or thereabouts, for the time is not distinctly marked. The reigning Pope was John XXII. Desirous of resuming the work of Innocent III, he ordered the inquisitors to repair to the Valleys of Lucerne and Perosa, and execute the laws of the Vatican against the heretics that peopled them. What success attended the expedition is not known, and we instance it chiefly on this account, that the bull commanding it bears undesigned testimony to the then flourishing condition of the Waldensian Church, inasmuch as it complains that synods, which the Pope calls chapters, were used to assemble in the Valley of Angrogna, attended by 500 delegates. This was before Wyckliffe had begun his career in England."
 

Phoneman777

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Apparently, reading is yet another skill at which YOU are wotfully inept.

I specifically stated in my last post that the book Pedophiles and Priests lists the FBI and INSURANCE statistics. EVERY SINGLE ONE of those cases you are referring to was settled with money fro Diocesesan insurance policies.
And they STILL pale in comparison to what continues to go on in Protestant churches - even your bizarre SDA sect.

Or, did you forget about that??

Adventist Women's Ministries | Statement on Child Sexual Abuse


Healing the wounds of childhood sexual abuse - Adventist Record

Seventh-day Adventist Church Retaliates against Abuse Victim and her family.

Sex Abuse Cases: New Allegations | Adventist Today

Moncton woman sues Seventh-day Adventist Church over alleged sex abuse ...

Child sexual abuse - Adventist Record


Seventh-Day Adventist Child Molestation Lawsuit | SDA Sex Abuse Lawyer
You just keep beating that drum while ignoring the millions of cases of papal priest child sex abuse your beloved papacy swept under the rug via "hush money" settlements - despite Cardinal Law being informed at the annual conference of bishops that "pedophile priests" were becoming a BILLION dollar liability for your death cult.

YOU GOT THAT, DEAD BREAD? A BILLION DOLLAR LIABILITY WITH A "B"!


According to Dr. Richard Sipe, former Benedictine priest and Psychotherapist with 30 years experience, among other things, treating catholic priests caught sexually abusing children, estimates that A FULL SIX PERCENT OF CATHOLIC PRIESTS HAVE ACTED OUT SEXUALLY WITH CHILDREN:


 
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RedFan

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Can you guys tone down the vitriol? Turn the dial counterclockwise, please. Comparing the sinfulness of both groups had limited usefulness in proving anything relevant. Attacking each other has none. I want to follow your discussion, not your war.
 

Marymog

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Yes, there are variations in determining what the gospel is throughout Christendom. But I think what Bereans was saying was that Catholicism teaches a different gospel from scripture. As do many of the Protestant denominations. Although I believe we need to perhaps clarify what you mean by Protestant. For example. I would not classify the Episcopalians as protestants. Nor the Lutherans, the Anglicans, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, or many of the other independent or mainline non Catholic churches around. They all stopped protesting a long time ago. Not only did they stop protesting Catholic heresy, but they also ceased advocating for pro-testimony, that is upholding scripture alone as spiritual authority. Most now have capitulated from the benchmark of cleaving to and searching out of truth that was set by the 16th and 17th century reformers. Those modern so called Protestant denominations may now be classified as on the verge of becoming fully restored and fully welcomed back into the fold as fallen Harlots... All back home with Mother. But, praise the Lord, there are still some who are protesting and preaching the true and full gospel... And may God bless them as they remain faithful to scripture and to the cause of Truth.
Oh goodness......You crack me up Brakelite.

Protestant defined (Merriam webster dictionary): a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church

Cambridge dictionary: a member of the parts of the Christian Church that separated from the Roman Catholic Church during the 16th century, a member of one of the major Christian divisions to which a number of different religious groups belong:

AND all those denominations you listed! They call themselves Protestant ......... but YOU don't???????? :jest:

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? :watching and waiting:
 
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Phoneman777

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Can you guys tone down the vitriol?
People are in here trying to convince other people that no man cometh to the Christ except through the catholic priesthood, and all you can do is whine about volume?

I'm sure there's an ecumenical love fest forum somewhere on this platform that is better suited for you, friend.
 

BreadOfLife

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What absolute total and complete garbage and lies. History testifies to the exact opposite and did not begin with Ellen White. The Waldenses were not rabble rousers, lazy, indolent, but were well known by the princes and rulers of those territories throughout Europe where they settled, to be industrious, honest, and Christian. By contrast, Rome chose to exterminate them through inquisitions and papal bulls denouncing them as heretics, but the local lords of the land were, despite being faithful Catholics and reluctant to disobey and upset the Pope, were even more reluctant to destroy the best and most noble of their populations.
To quote Wylie...
It was the year 1487. A great blow was meditated. The process of purging the Valleys languished. Pope Innocent VIII, who then filled the Papal chair, remembered how his renowned namesake, Innocent III, by an act of summary vengeance, had swept the Albigensian heresy from the south of France. Imitating the rigor of his predecessor, he would purge the Valleys as effectually and as speedily as Innocent III had done the plains of Dauphine and Provence. The first step of the Pope was to issue a bull, denouncing as heretical those whom he delivered over to slaughter. This bull, after the manner of all such documents, was expressed in terms as sanctimonious as its spirit was inexorably cruel. It brings no charge against these men, as lawless, idle, dishonest, or disorderly; their fault was that they did not worship as Innocent worshipped, and that they practiced a "simulated sanctity," which had the effect of seducing the sheep of the true fold, therefore he orders "that malicious and abominable sect of malignants," if they "refuse to abjure, to be crushed like venomous snakes." To carry out his bull, Innocent VIII appointed Albert Cataneo, Archdeacon of Cremona, his legate, devolving upon him the chief conduct of the enterprise. He fortified him, moreover, with Papal missives to all princes, dukes, and powers within whose dominions any Vaudois were to be found. The Pope especially accredited him to Charles VIII of France, and Charles II of Savoy, commanding them to support him with the whole power of their arms. The bull invited all Catholics to take up the cross against the heretics; and to stimulate them in this pious work, it "absolved from all ecclesiastical pains and penalties, general and particular; it released all who joined the crusade from any oaths they might have taken; it legitimatized their title to any property they might have illegally acquired, and promised remission of all their sins to such as should kill any heretic. It annulled all contracts made in favor of Vaudois, ordered their domestics to abandon them, forbade all persons to give them any aid whatever, and empowered all persons to take possession of their property."

To place the blame entirely on secular rulers to exterminate heresy is just lunacy, when one considers such as the above, crusades bring arranged with promises of indulgences and riches to anyone who killed a heretic. Those promises didn't come from the prince, they came from Rome.

The pious and Christian character of the Waldensian people was, for centuries, a direct testimony against the character and hatred of Rome against them. It was unreasonable, malicious, and evil. And you blame civil law!!! How blind you are.

So it wasn't civil law that justified those persecutions, what laws then were the popes using? What laws justified the killing of heretics, the confiscation of property, and indulgences granted to the killers?
They weren’t rabble-rousers??

The Waldenses lived in open heresy and rebellion against the Church.
They rejected all Church Authority and the Real Presence. They were the very definition of the term

As for the Church’s treatment of the Waldenses – I’ve never made the argument that there haven’t been tragic mistakes in leadership throughout the ages. I believe we’re going through a period of flawed leadership today.

My argument had been against YOUR claim that these errors were written into Canon Law.
 
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BreadOfLife

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You just keep beating that drum while ignoring the millions of cases of papal priest child sex abuse your beloved papacy swept under the rug via "hush money" settlements - despite Cardinal Law being informed at the annual conference of bishops that "pedophile priests" were becoming a BILLION dollar liability for your death cult.

YOU GOT THAT, DEAD BREAD? A BILLION DOLLAR LIABILITY WITH A "B"!


According to Dr. Richard Sipe, former Benedictine priest and Psychotherapist with 30 years experience, among other things, treating catholic priests caught sexually abusing children, estimates that A FULL SIX PERCENT OF CATHOLIC PRIESTS HAVE ACTED OUT SEXUALLY WITH CHILDREN:


And while YOU accuse me of "beating the drum" - YOU have completely ignored the facts as documented by the FBI and the insurance companies, as chronicled by Philip Jenkins' book, Pedophiles and Priests.
It was insurance money that settled those cases, Einstein.

As usual - you're just another hypocrite who's afraid to look in his OWN backyard . . .
 
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Brakelite

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Oh goodness......You crack me up Brakelite.

Protestant defined (Merriam webster dictionary): a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church

Cambridge dictionary: a member of the parts of the Christian Church that separated from the Roman Catholic Church during the 16th century, a member of one of the major Christian divisions to which a number of different religious groups belong:

AND all those denominations you listed! They call themselves Protestant ......... but YOU don't???????? :jest:

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? :watching and waiting:
Well Mary, you actually proved me right by quoting those dictionaries...
a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth...
Surely, if they no longer object to the universal authority of the Pope, and through ecumenism are willing to once again submit to that authority, then surely they are no longer protestants? This the final conclusion...
broadly: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church
Becomes irrelevant.
As for the second definition...
a member of the parts of the Christian Church that separated from the Roman Catholic Church during the 16th century, a member of one of the major Christian divisions to which a number of different religious groups belong:...

If said member or denomination is no longer separated, then he/she or the denomination, is no longer protestant.
Thank you for confirming my initial statement.
 

Brakelite

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The Waldenses lived in open heresy and rebellion against the Church.
They rejected all Church Authority and the Real Presence. They were the very definition of the term
So while they refused and rejected Roman authority, but in all other points harmonized with scripture and were fine examples and good citizens of all the nations to which they were chased and harried, the Catholic church sought their extinction solely because they testified to Rome's corruptions in both word and deed, and this became enemies of Rome and worthy of destruction. Heresy in the eyes of Rome isn't disobedience to or unbelief in God's word, but simply unacceptance of an apostatizing institution having any day whatsoever in ones eternal destiny.

Reinerius Saccho, an officer of the Inquisition (c. A.D. 1250), wrote a treatise against the Waldenses which explains not only their early origin, but also the character of the people they were dealing with . He had formerly been a pastor among them, but had apostatized and afterward had become a papal persecutor. He must have known as much about them as any enemy could. After declaring on his own personal testimony that all the ancient heretical sects, of which there were more than seventy, had been destroyed except four — the Arians, Manichaeans, Runearians, and Leonists — he wrote,
“Among all these sects, which still are or have been, there is not any more pernicious to the church than that of the Leonists.” He gave three reasons why they were dangerous to the Papacy:
First, because it is of longer duration; for some say that it hath endured from the time of Pope Sylvester; others from the time of the apostles;
second, because it is more general. For there is scarcely any country wherein this sect is not.
Third, because when all other sects beget horror in the hearers by the outrageousness of their blasphemies against God, this of the Leonists hath a great appearance of piety: because they live justly before men and believe all things rightly concerning God and all the articles which are contained in the creed; only they blaspheme the Church of Rome and the clergy."

Thus Saccho not only showed that the Leonists, or Waldenses, were older than the Arians; yes, even older than the Manichaeans, but were worthy examples of what true Christians ought to be like in character and behaviour.
I find it reprehensible that hundreds of years of persistent crusades, inquisitions, and persecutions against those noble people should be considered by you, a mere "tragic mistake in leadership".