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Where Does Your Soul Go The Instant You Die?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Dane01, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. Dane01

    Dane01 New Member

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    So I have been told that the second you die your soul enters a "eternal sleep" and when "judgement day" comes when everyone gets judged that that's when your soul will be woken up. The reason I use sleep is that it will feel instantaneous once we die to us but since God opperates outside of time everyone will be judged at once.
    I learned of this idea when listening to my pastor disprove the 32 minutes in heaven book. I am just curious to find other peoples oppions on this subject. Thanks
     
  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    The answer is found in Ecclesiastes 12. There isn't a "holding place," purgatory, or whatever. When someone dies, they go straight to the Father. It's difficult for us to understand, but time doesn't exist for God and it doesn't outside of this world. For proof of this concept of a lack of time, look at Revelation when John is taken to the Lord's day which is even now yet future.
     
  3. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    What Hammerstone said.............. This is a old question............ Off to God you go............ If you know Jesus. Keep in mind the Soul and Spirit are separate. Our bodies will be put back together, and resurrected. I assume we wait on those to show up.

    Jesus Is Lord..
     
  4. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    The flesh and bones go into the grave and the soul (and personality) go to be with the Lord. We are not told the exact mechanics of how that works but we trust The Lord has it all figured out. As far as the time aspect , you are probably right it is in an eternal dimension where time as we know it does not exist.

    Actually if you go deep into physics , and compare a few bible hints on the subject , TIME (as we know it) only exists to us and our immediate universe . Time seems like a big deal to us but to the Lord it is as nothing.

    There is a verse in Hebrews somewhere , maybe chapter 12 that references the souls of the righteous are surrounded by thousands upon thousands of Angels in joyful assembly.


    Martin W.
     
  5. Templar81

    Templar81 New Member

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    I used to be quite firm on the above opinion that when a believer dies they go to sleep and that everyone is judged at the same time. Now though I'm not so sure. Whilst i don't believe in purgatory outright i do believe there must be some sort of clensing. I'll admit I wish there was a Purgaoory because it is not for ever and is only for believers. Human beings are riddled with sin and sin cannot enter Heven. It is believe in Jesus Christ that allows the soul of the deceased to be purged from sin. If they arenot a believer then they'd just go straight to hell. Liek I said I find it hard to believe in Purgatory, but likewise I now find it hard to believe that we jsut wake up on judgement day. what about Sheol, this is supposed to be a holding area for the dead before the last judgement.

    Here is another questions: Lets just say there is a purgatory, would a soul go there before or after the last judgement since all souls who go to Pyurgatory are on their way to heaven anyway.
     
  6. Dane01

    Dane01 New Member

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    Well I do not believe in purgatory. The thing that gets me is that if we die and go to heaven that instant then is there a day where everyone is judged at once? And if so does anyone have a idea where that is?
     
  7. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    First, you will have a better time with this if you keep in mind that we don't die. We have eternal life (In God) as soon as Jesus is our Lord. We just Leave our earth suite (Body) and go to be with God. Why, because we belong to God. Your salvation is already taken care of.

    In Rev 20:11- We see all the dead of the earth, great and small stand before God. It just says the "DEAD" (Rev 20:12) where present. This is not talking about us, but those that did not know Jesus, because they have not heard, or Jesus was not around yet. We are alive in Christ Jesus, and the hand written things against us have already been blotted out at this time.

    Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    So, you will not be at this Judgment. This is a judgment that determines if you make it or not, and we already made it.
    We do have a judgment though, but it's for reward.

    2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    The Question here will be, did you do What I called you to do while on earth. Did you finish the race, did you complete your course.

    God is not judging the World Today, as some think. Sin will run it's course, and Satan will continue to destroy those that give him a place to do so. Some confuse giving place to the devil, with God judging someone. I am talking about the World, for we have a Judge, the head of the Church, that corrects, and cares for us. The World has not God, and no hope without God. Jesus said I am not judging the World, though we will face Jesus and give account latter. For the rest of the World that does not obey the Word, Jesus said there is one that will judge him at the appointed day. It would seem this judgment will be based on if you received Jesus Or not. Did you reject His Words?

    Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
    Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


    Jesus Is Lord
     
    Dane01 likes this.
  8. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    1) Everyone, 100% of humanity, are judged at the White Thrown judgment. Good, bad, ugly, everyone. For some the judgment will be the second death (death of the soul), for others the judgment will be reward.
    2) Temp, Christ’s death on the cross is good enough to pay for all sin.
    3) Once we die our flesh body (corruptible) returns to dust, never to be used again. It does not come up out of the dust. It is not needed any more. When we die we put back on our spiritual bodies, the incorruptible body.
     
  9. Templar81

    Templar81 New Member

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    Of course Christ's death pays for our sins. I am aware of that. Afterall it is the bais of my faith, but that doesn't mean we can jsut go out and do whatever we want. All purgatory is is the means by which are sins are purged before we can enter heaven, but this is not possible without faith in Christ Jesus. What Jesus did for us allows us to go through Purgatory and come out in the Church triumphant. Without faith in Jesus there is just Hell, there can be no hope for salvation. Remember, I'm not a Roman Catholic but i do think Purgatory makes sense, even John Wesley did. It makes sense because it tells us that the soul goes on after dath and what it didn't get right in life it has another chance to in death. Also, what about Sheol which is a holding pen for those who await judgement. In Sheol depending on what kind of live a person leads determines wether they are punnished or rewarded. If a person has led a wicked lief but is repentant they serve out their punnishment and are allowed into Heaven at the alst judgement. Purgatory is not strictly Biblical I know, like many Catholic beliefs. This is because they often come through books which didn't make it into the bible like the Gospel of Nicademus and the Aapocolypse of Peter.
     
  10. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    Proverbs 27:20
    Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

    never full of what?
     
  11. Templar81

    Templar81 New Member

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    I'm sorry, how does that statemtn from Proverbs contribute to the discussion?
     
  12. logabe

    logabe New Member

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    Because the soul has been traditionally considered to be the seat of
    immortality in virtually every religion, the role and function of man's
    spirit has been largely unknown. This has caused religions to venerate
    the soul, as if it were both immortal and capable of bringing men to
    perfection. The Greeks believed that the soul was spiritual, whereas
    the Hebrew scriptures tell us that the soul is connected to the flesh,
    rather than to the spirit.

    Thus, the law says in Lev. 17:11, “the life [nephesh, ‘soul'] of the flesh
    is in the blood.” Another way of putting it is this: “the fleshly soul is in
    the blood.”

    This law gives us the prohibition against drinking blood on the
    grounds that it is the residence of the soul. When Adam sinned,
    his soul was condemned to death, for we read in Ezekiel 18:4 says,

    4 “The soul who sins will die.”

    In other words, the soul is the focal point of the problem of sin. The
    soul is the natural mind, or carnal mind, which we received as part
    of our inheritance from Adam. It is thus also the seat of death, or
    mortality.

    There is no such thing as an immortal soul, at least not this side of
    the glory that is to come. Such a term is never used in the Bible, but
    is a theological and popular term borrowed from various religions.

    The entire sacrificial system is based upon the practice of pouring
    out the blood upon the ground, rather than drinking it. Pouring out
    the blood is the same as pouring out one's soul, for when Isaiah
    prophesies of Jesus' great sacrifice on the cross, he says in Isaiah
    53:12, “ because He has poured out his soul [nephesh] unto death.”
    This alluded to the fact that the priest was to pour out the blood of
    the sacrifice upon the ground and cover it with dirt (Lev. 17:13).

    Thus, Isaiah 53 makes it clear that the Messiah was to be a Sacrifice
    for sin and is connected to the sacrificial animals in the law of Moses.
    The soul of the animal was sacrificed for the souls of men, for Lev.
    17:11 says, “I have given it [the blood] to you on the altar to make
    atonement for your souls.”


    Insofar as immortality is concerned, the human spirit is the only
    seat of immortality, for it is never said to die, but to “return to God”
    (Eccl. 12:7). So also when Jesus died, He said, “Father, into Thy
    hands I commend My spirit”
    (Luke 23:46), and yet His soul went
    to hades, for we read in Acts 2:27, “Thou wilt not leave My soul in
    hades.”


    I do not want to engage in a full discussion here on the state of the
    dead, but I do want to make the point that the seat of immortality is
    not the soul, but the spirit. The soul is connected to the flesh and
    is therefore “carnal,” or “fleshly.” The penalty for sin called for the
    death of the soul, and the sacrificial system manifested that
    principle by pouring out the blood and covering it with dust.

    The spirit has a mind, just as the soul has a mind. They each have
    their own consciousness, capable of thought. When a man dies
    on the operating table and floats above himself, watching the
    doctors attempting to revive him, it is not the soul's mind that is
    watching this procedure. It is the spiritual mind. The soul's mind
    dies with the brain, because it is “fleshly,” and is therefore brain-
    dependent.

    When we speak of “the real you,” we can mean either of two
    possibilities. You are either the person who is descended from
    Adam, which is the “old man” (Rom. 6:6), or you can identify with
    the new Man, which is Christ, the last Adam. By faith in Christ, the
    Holy Spirit comes into our Most Holy Place, which is our human
    spirit. This creates a new creature, a new man, the Manchild, or
    Christ in you, the Hope of Glory.

    In essence, the soul is attached to the body which came from
    the dust and will return to the dust with the body or flesh. At the
    Great White Throne... it will be raised in it's mortal state to be
    judged and experience the Passover for the first time. Gen. 2:7,

    7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground,
    and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man
    became a living being ( soul ).


    Logabe
     
  13. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    the topic is "where does one go when they die". someone said not to heave nor hell, so i ask if nobody goes to hell, then why does the scripyure say that hell is never full?
     
  14. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Look it up for yourself. You do have a Bible and Concordance don't you?
     
  15. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    why are you guys so hostile toward me? im just trying to get in on the discussions.
     
  16. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    Logabe

    This following passage does not appear to be in harmony with your above post. Thanks.

    You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    Martin W.
     
  17. logabe

    logabe New Member

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    Martin, I'm not sure what your question is... but I will comment
    on what you are saying when you give me a little more detail.

    Let me go deeper into the last post I made so the readers can
    understand the purpose of the blood.

    The blood was to be poured out upon the ground as atonement
    for our souls (Lev. 17:13). In pouring out the blood, it was said
    that the SOUL was poured out. This is what Jesus did at the
    Cross, for we read in Isaiah 53:12, “ He has poured out His soul
    unto death.” It was done by means of the blood that was poured
    out upon the ground at the Cross.

    To pour the blood of any sacrifice upon the ground (including the
    Sacrifice of Christ) was an act of giving. Christ did this in
    accordance with the law, which said that the blood was to be
    used to atone for our souls.

    One might ask WHY blood was to be poured out upon the ground.
    The answer goes back to Genesis 3 when Adam and Eve first
    sinned. Verse 17 gives us part of God's verdict upon them for their
    sin: “ Cursed is the ground because of you ” or for your sake.
    The ground was actually given responsibility for Adam's sin. In the
    law, when a man takes responsibility for the sin (debt) of another,
    he is, called a redeemer. In the laws of redemption, the redeemer
    pays the debt and purchases the debtor. The debtor is not set free,
    but merely changes masters (Lev. 25:53).

    Jesus' redemption work came in the New Testament, but the
    principle of redemption has been with us from the beginning.
    The same law of redemption is apparent in Gen. 3:17 when God
    made the ground liable for Adam's sin. Essentially, the ground
    was Adam's first redeemer. Adam became enslaved to the
    ground as a result of this redemption. The ground had the right
    of redemption, because Adam was made from the dust of the
    ground and was therefore a near kinsman (Lev. 25:49). But the
    ground proved to be a hard task master.

    The ground owned Adam, and its rights were specified in the
    law of redemption. For this reason, Adam had to work for the
    ground by the sweat of his brow (Gen. 3:19) for his entire life
    time, until the ground reclaimed him (that is, his soul) at death.

    Adam's entire estate was sold to pay for his sin (Matt. 18:25).
    Adam's estate was all of creation, including the animals. For
    this reason, when animals were killed for food or for sacrifice,
    their blood was to be given to the ground, as the law says. The
    reason was because even the animals had been sold to the
    ground for Adam's sake in Gen. 3:17. Their souls belonged to
    the earth by right of redemption.

    Jesus then came as a near Kinsman to purchase all who had
    been sold to the ground through Adam's sin, including the
    entire estate—CREATION. The same law that sold us to the
    ground was the basis of our redemption in Christ.

    Meanwhile, the souls of the martyrs, the persecuted ones, cry
    out from under the altar, as we read in Rev. 6:9, 10,

    9 And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath
    the altar the souls of those who had been slain because
    of the word of God, and because of the testimony which
    they had maintained,
    10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How
    long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from
    judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell
    on the earth?”


    First of all, these souls are identified as martyrs, who are
    pictured as having been sacrificed to God. In the temple,
    the blood of the sacrifices were to be poured out upon the
    ground under the altar in fulfillment of the law of blood in
    Leviticus 17.

    Secondly, John identifies these as “souls,” not as spirits,
    because the soul is in the blood. It is a word picture that
    expresses the law found in Leviticus 17.

    The first martyr, of course, was Abel, whom Cain killed in
    Genesis 4. At that time, God spoke to Cain saying in Gen.
    4:10, “the voice of your brother's blood is crying to Me
    from the ground.”
    Hebrews 11:4,

    4 “through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.”

    In the crucifixion of Jesus, the Lamb of God, those priests
    who crucified Him did not apply His blood to the altars of
    their hearts by faith. To do so would have atoned for their
    souls. But they did not have faith that the blood of Jesus
    would do anything for their souls. For this reason, the law
    says that they are guilty of bloodshed and murder (Matt.
    22:7). Yet those who accepted Him as the Sacrifice for sin
    are NOT guilty, for the blood of the Sacrifice has atoned for
    all their sins and has made peace with God.


    Logabe
     
  18. Templar81

    Templar81 New Member

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    It would be sie to give up because of the damage it does. There is no reason why a Christian smoker is any different anyone else.
     
  19. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    Lots of ideas here in response to your question, I love it. God's people on fire...
    Question: Where was it before the soul came into existence? The first reference, in Genesis, was man was made from dirt, and after Elohim breathed the breath of life into Adam, then he became a living soul. Not before. First there was dirt, then there was breath from God, then there became a soul. It wasn't there before that, and until the breath of life was infused, it did not exist. Pretty clear here. The spirit gives life. He, the Christ, is a life-giving Spirit. God the Father is the Father of spirits, true? It the body returns to dust, the spirit returns to God from whence it came, it kinda seems obvious that without the both of them working together, spirit and body, the soul just don't have no place to go. Except back to where it was before Genesis. The soul wouldn't have much to say or do without a body. And a body don't move much without a spirit to animate it. God's not the Father of souls, He is the Father of spirits. Can't get around without a body, transfiqured, transformed, corruptible or not. No body, no soul. No spirit and body, no soul. Missing one part, you can't have the others.

    When we're raised out from among the dead, and corruptible puts on incorruption, we will have our bodies back, albeit radically changed. Then our souls will be no more. What need? Heaven knows not air, wind and fire. It is useless to have a soul in a place that is beyond physical perception, where the soul was first created and employed. Touch, taste, hearing, smelling will be a thing of the past and something Israel and the rest of the nations will need for a thousand years. Not us. Not where we're going to be. fivesense
     
  20. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Now fivesense...............Someone just corrected what I said about the body being resurrected, then you go say it again.

    JerryJohnson said that.

    So, which one is it??? Resurrection or no resurrection.

    It can't be both.

    Jesus Is Lord
     
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