Where to O Lord?

[amadeus]

Where to O Lord?

The "Ugly American"! Is it only an obsolete stereotype of the unbelieving careless atheist, the unusual one, who is loud and arrogant and ignorant about the ways of anyone who is Not one he considers as one of his own... the Americans? Who are these Americans? Are they all God's people, who love one another and love their enemies and who are ready in this moment to lay down their lives as Jesus most certainly did for us? Let us be careful that we lay down our lives as Jesus did for God's will!

Where to O Lord?

Although people may have thought of the "Ugly American" especially perhaps as foolish tourists and business travelers abroad, is he not also seen also in our homeland... among those claiming to be Christians, followers of Christ? How many are really striving to enter in at the strait gate?

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

Where to O Lord?

Could it be that we have invoked the curses of God upon our own heads making ourselves uglier still. Kind of late to repent now, but certainly not too too late for the individual...! The nation? God knows... but let us hope and pray while trusting in Him. People can fight and some are according to
the various methods of men and some also as God leads them. I would not want to sort them out, although I am sure some may do just that drawing a line for God... as if God needed or wanted that kind of help.

Where to is He leading those who are following Him? According to God's will, let it be! What is God's will? Someone here I am sure will jump in to tell us soon enough. Hopefully no "ugly Americans"! Where are God's prophets today?

So now whose fault is it that we see our ideals tromped upon and our precious laws as per an apparently well written Constitution with a carefully added Bill of Rights eroded to the point where one may struggle to a bit to see what people once proudly thought they saw. Pride rather than humility has brought us to what? Loving self and feeding the inclinations of carnal self rather than loving others better has brought us to what? Consider the Way of Jesus:

"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself." Phil 2:3

Where to O Lord?

"Gather yourselves together, yea, gather yourselves together, O undesirable nation,
Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.
Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger." Zeph. 2:1-3

"... thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" Matt 23:37

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

Where to, indeed, O Lord?

Help us dear Lord!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I believe the Zeph. 2:1-3 message is directed at Israel - in the End Times.
Jesus in Matt. 23:37 was also referring to Israel.

Some encouragement. History is moving along as it should. God allows evil for a purpose. Nations rise and fall, leaders are appointed by God, for a purpose. We've seen the Israel rise and fall, go off the track and God sent Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Greeks, etc to defeat them, enslave them in some cases and then they were brought back after a time. It was not meant for the US to endure for thousands of years. We have seen immorality spread, corrupt the fabric of life in this generation. Abortions have killed 50 million, schools have been indoctrinating children into liberal ways of thinking, revisionists are destroying what we used to hold dear (traditions, values, morals, religion). Frankly, I thought when Gay Marriage was legalized, judgment was shortly going to follow. America and the World has reached the precipice. Good and Evil will be separated soon - by Jesus, Whom will return and fix the world. Trump can't fix this nation, it has descended to far down. We are in the "beginning of sorrows", if not the Great Tribulation. Where to O Lord, Judgment Day, so we all say, Come Lord Jesus! So be it, Amen.

 

[amadeus]

I believe the Zeph. 2:1-3 message is directed at Israel - in the End Times.
Jesus in Matt. 23:37 was also referring to Israel.

Even so but then again... just who is Israel?

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" Rom 9:6

ÅIsrahvl Israel (is-rah-ale');
Word Origin: Hebrew, Adjective, Strong #: 2474

Israel = "he shall be a prince of God"

1. the name given to the patriarch Jacob (and borne by him in addition to his former name)
2. the family or descendants of Israel, the nation of Israel
3. Christians, the Israel of God (Gal 6:

KJV Word Usage and Count
Israel 70

Are we then, all of us, to be princes of God... or not?

Some encouragement. History is moving along as it should. God allows evil for a purpose. Nations rise and fall, leaders are appointed by God, for a purpose. We've seen the Israel rise and fall, go off the track and God sent Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Greeks, etc to defeat them, enslave them in some cases and then they were brought back after a time. It was not meant for the US to endure for thousands of years. We have seen immorality spread, corrupt the fabric of life in this generation. Abortions have killed 50 million, schools have been indoctrinating children into liberal ways of thinking, revisionists are destroying what we used to hold dear (traditions, values, morals, religion). Frankly, I thought when Gay Marriage was legalized, judgment was shortly going to follow. America and the World has reached the precipice. Good and Evil will be separated soon - by Jesus, Whom will return and fix the world. Trump can't fix this nation, it has descended to far down. We are in the "beginning of sorrows", if not the Great Tribulation. Where to O Lord, Judgment Day, so we all say, Come Lord Jesus! So be it, Amen.

Yes, God allows evil for a purpose, His purpose, but then again... we really do not want to be one from whom the evil comes:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." Matt 18:7-9

 

[Nancy]

Even so but then again... just who is Israel?

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" Rom 9:6

ÅIsrahvl Israel (is-rah-ale');
Word Origin: Hebrew, Adjective, Strong #: 2474

Israel = "he shall be a prince of God"

1. the name given to the patriarch Jacob (and borne by him in addition to his former name)
2. the family or descendants of Israel, the nation of Israel
3. Christians, the Israel of God (Gal 6:

KJV Word Usage and Count
Israel 70

Are we then, all of us, to be princes of God... or not?


Yes, God allows evil for a purpose, His purpose, but then again... we really do not want to be one from whom the evil comes:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire." Matt 18:7-9

Hello brother john,

"Yes, God allows evil for a purpose, His purpose, but then again... we really do not want to be one from whom the evil comes..."

No, not something we would ever want, for sure. It reminds me of vessels unto honor and dishonor. What is a vessel of dishonor used for? Nothing Holy, I'd think. Yet He still uses them to His glory


All the different "types" of the Israel's, Judah's, Jacob's confuse me no end! What just popped into my head was: True Israel is a circumcized heart.
Have a very blessed day!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Even so but then again... just who is Israel?

God's knows. Romans 11 tells us "all Israel will be saved during the Great Tribulation. They were blinded for our sake, but God will lift their veils soon. This is a remnant 1/3 of the 15 million - I suppose.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No, not something we would ever want, for sure. It reminds me of vessels unto honor and dishonor. What is a vessel of dishonor used for? Nothing Holy, I'd think. Yet He still uses them to His glory

What about David? What did he do, yet He was a man after God's heart and was used, became a good King.
What about Saul who persecuted Christians, then God turned him around.

 

[amadeus]

All the different "types" of the Israel's, Judah's, Jacob's confuse me no end! What just popped into my head was: True Israel is a circumcized heart.
Have a very blessed day!

One problem I have seen is the difference between what God is saying to us and what He is saying to the natural children of Jacob/Israel, the son of Isaac.

Often or even always what God said to those people living on planet Earth at that time was also spoken to people living on planet Earth today. If we read a verse of scripture that someone or many someones insist is directed to the natural children of Jacob alone, should we presume that God has no message for us in that same verse today? Because we do not see one for us at the moment does not mean He will not have a message from it later or even more than one later. Consider these verses that now come to my mind:

"And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him.
And they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying,
So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." Gen 50:15-20

The very last verse I quoted, most people would agree is addressed to the natural brothers of Joseph, the ones who threw him into a pit and sold him into slavery... but is there no message in that verse to anyone else? Is there no message in it to you and/or to me today? Has anyone on this forum ever gone through a terrible trial and wondered where God was in it? Then later, perhaps even years later, it all became clear to them why God allowed them to go through such a thing. If even one person here answered, yes, already then we would see in that one example another message in "...but God meant it unto good...".

 

[amadeus]

@Nancy
Then back to Jacob and Israel...! What is the difference between Jacob and Israel?

bq[y Ya`aqob (yah-ak-obe'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3290

Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter"

1. son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham, and father of the 12 patriarchs of the tribes of Israel

KJV Word Usage and Count
Jacob 349

larXy Yisra'el (yis-raw-ale'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3478

Israel = "God prevails"

1. the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel
2. the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob
   1. the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split
   2. the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah
   3. the name of the nation after the return from exile

KJV Word Usage and Count
Israel 2489
Israelites 16

Look the word usage and count difference.
Jacob at 349
Israel at 2489

You may not recall a post on here I did with regard to those counts but the gist of it is here:

Jacob was first mentioned in Gen 25:26. Jacob was last mentioned in Gen 50:24.
Israel was first mentioned in Gen 32:28. Israel was last mentioned in Gen 50:25

The word Jacob was used 181 times in the whole Book of Genesis.
The word Jacob was used 70 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26 when the other name had also been given.
The word Israel was used 40 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26. It was the man's new name given to him by God in Gen 32:28. Why was it used less than Jacob in the remainder of the Book of Genesis?

The word Jacob was used 196 times from Exodus to Revelation.
The word Israel was used 2533 times from Exodus to Revelation.

The word Jacob was used 377 times in the whole Bible.
The word Israel was used 2576 times in the whole Bible.

The reason I separated from the rest of the Bible in my counts is that the man, Jacob/Israel died in the Book of Genesis.

It had occurred to me the first time as it does now that in spite of a glorious reason for giving the new name the old name was used so much more while the man still lived. Could it be that God realized that the man in spite of a notable promise of things to come was still so much in his old nature rather than the new throughout most of his life even after receiving the new name? Thus in the inspiration given to the writers, Jacob still was dominant while he drew natural breath, at least until toward the end. Only after his death did the name of Israel prevail so heavily against Jacob and then most of the time it was referring to a nation rather than a single man.

It does provide food for thought, doesn't it?

 

[amadeus]

God's knows. Romans 11 tells us "all Israel will be saved during the Great Tribulation. They were blinded for our sake, but God will lift their veils soon. This is a remnant 1/3 of the 15 million - I suppose.

There is much to be seen and as we see by our own readings/studies and those cited by others even on this forum, the conclusions of every person are not always the same. What is God's message to me or to you or to the other guy? We need to be talking to Him regularly and listening closely... not necessarily for answer for other people, but for that too. The message to me, is the most important one for me even if it came from God through you!

As you say..."God knows".

 

[Nancy]

@Nancy
Then back to Jacob and Israel...! What is the difference between Jacob and Israel?

bq[y Ya`aqob (yah-ak-obe'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3290

Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter"

1. son of Isaac, grandson of Abraham, and father of the 12 patriarchs of the tribes of Israel

KJV Word Usage and Count
Jacob 349

larXy Yisra'el (yis-raw-ale'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3478

Israel = "God prevails"

1. the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the angel at Peniel
2. the name of the descendants and the nation of the descendants of Jacob
   1. the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and the split
   2. the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the 10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah
   3. the name of the nation after the return from exile

KJV Word Usage and Count
Israel 2489
Israelites 16

Look the word usage and count difference.
Jacob at 349
Israel at 2489

You may not recall a post on here I did with regard to those counts but the gist of it is here:

Jacob was first mentioned in Gen 25:26. Jacob was last mentioned in Gen 50:24.
Israel was first mentioned in Gen 32:28. Israel was last mentioned in Gen 50:25

The word Jacob was used 181 times in the whole Book of Genesis.
The word Jacob was used 70 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26 when the other name had also been given.
The word Israel was used 40 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26. It was the man's new name given to him by God in Gen 32:28. Why was it used less than Jacob in the remainder of the Book of Genesis?

The word Jacob was used 196 times from Exodus to Revelation.
The word Israel was used 2533 times from Exodus to Revelation.

The word Jacob was used 377 times in the whole Bible.
The word Israel was used 2576 times in the whole Bible.

The reason I separated from the rest of the Bible in my counts is that the man, Jacob/Israel died in the Book of Genesis.

It had occurred to me the first time as it does now that in spite of a glorious reason for giving the new name the old name was used so much more while the man still lived. Could it be that God realized that the man in spite of a notable promise of things to come was still so much in his old nature rather than the new throughout most of his life even after receiving the new name? Thus in the inspiration given to the writers, Jacob still was dominant while he drew natural breath, at least until toward the end. Only after his death did the name of Israel prevail so heavily against Jacob and then most of the time it was referring to a nation rather than a single man.

It does provide food for thought, doesn't it?

"It does provide food for thought, doesn't it?"

Ummm..yes, and since I am already full of so many other verses, words, posts, scriptures and what not, lol...I'll have to re-read when I can absorb brother.
In Him!
nancy

 

[amadeus]

"It does provide food for thought, doesn't it?"

Ummm..yes, and since I am already full of so many other verses, words, posts, scriptures and what not, lol...I'll have to re-read when I can absorb brother.
In Him!
nancy

Sift it carefully in study... and definitely in prayer, but don't insist on an answer from man or God. If you 'need' [as opposed to 'want'] an answer and you are faithful to Him, God will in His time [not ours] provide it.

 

[Nancy]

"It does provide food for thought, doesn't it?"

Ummm..yes, and since I am already full of so many other verses, words, posts, scriptures and what not, lol...I'll have to re-read when I can absorb brother.
In Him!
nancy

@amadeus ,
I note-padded this so I can read it again later. I did read a second time and it is very interesting as to the timing of the death of Jacob the man and Israel taking over so close together in Genesis. Like I said though, I will re read and look closer again.

 

[quietthinker]

I believe the Zeph. 2:1-3 message is directed at Israel - in the End Times.
Jesus in Matt. 23:37 was also referring to Israel.

Some encouragement. History is moving along as it should. God allows evil for a purpose. Nations rise and fall, leaders are appointed by God, for a purpose. We've seen the Israel rise and fall, go off the track and God sent Babylonians, Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Greeks, etc to defeat them, enslave them in some cases and then they were brought back after a time. It was not meant for the US to endure for thousands of years. We have seen immorality spread, corrupt the fabric of life in this generation. Abortions have killed 50 million, schools have been indoctrinating children into liberal ways of thinking, revisionists are destroying what we used to hold dear (traditions, values, morals, religion). Frankly, I thought when Gay Marriage was legalized, judgment was shortly going to follow. America and the World has reached the precipice. Good and Evil will be separated soon - by Jesus, Whom will return and fix the world. Trump can't fix this nation, it has descended to far down. We are in the "beginning of sorrows", if not the Great Tribulation. Where to O Lord, Judgment Day, so we all say, Come Lord Jesus! So be it, Amen.

National Israel is a spent force regarding the Messiah....whom they rejected....rejected....rejected.
Making National Israel a focal point will yield only distraction and deception....a convenient decoy while the man of sin positions himself for his last stand....a decoy that will not be seen as a decoy by the masses. And how is it they will not understand or see?...... because they have not a love for the truth but were beguiled by fables and the pride which they love.

 

[amadeus]

National Israel is a spent force regarding the Messiah....whom they rejected....rejected....rejected.
Making National Israel a focal point will yield only distraction and deception....a convenient decoy while the man of sin positions himself for his last stand....a decoy that will not be seen as a decoy by the masses. And how is it they will not understand or see?...... because they have not a love for the truth but were beguiled by fables and the pride which they love.

Yes, as the natural Israelites have been deluded so it is among many in Christendom today. They hold onto to their doctrines more tightly than they love the truth you mention. Some, or many, have decided that loving their doctrines is equal to loving the truth.

Who on this forum does not believe their own doctrines are correct? With such drastic differences of opinion as we see here, supposedly all based on scripture, could it be that a few, or several, or many are in error? Misplaced love on the part of me or you or that other guy! Therein is the delusion because we, believing we loved all the right things, did not really. We loved our doctrines... or our church, or our church's stated essentials. Loving the truth should be the thing even if we cannot describe exactly all that it is. We are still knocking, asking, seeking, so as to receive... and we love it!

Where to indeed O Lord?

 

[Nancy]

Yes, as the natural Israelites have been deluded so it is among many in Christendom today. They hold onto to their doctrines more tightly than they love the truth you mention. Some, or many, have decided that loving their doctrines is equal to loving the truth.

Who on this forum does not believe their own doctrines are correct? With such drastic differences of opinion as we see here, supposedly all based on scripture, could it be that a few, or several, or many are in error? Misplaced love on the part of me or you or that other guy! Therein is the delusion because we, believing we loved all the right things, did not really. We loved our doctrines... or our church, or our churches stated essentials. Loving the truth should be the thing even if we cannot describe exactly all that it is. We are still knocking, asking, seeking, so as to receive... and we love it!

Where to indeed O Lord?

So very agreed John. My guess is that there are "few" who are truly seeking, knocking, coming to the knowledge OF the Truth...a complacent pew warmer (as I once was) does not seek the things of God, they are happy to just believe they are going to go to heaven.
Agreed...just because we might not have understanding "now", does not mean it will never be understood by those who honestly SEEK Him in all things, as like looking for buried treasure! Amen.
Doctrine is important but, some hold so tight to theirs that they become deaf, dumb and blind to the truths that might possible blow their doctrine out the water! That is someone who is too proud to see too proud to change too stiff necked. many on here and I honestly believe that many have no idea this could be speaking to them...I don't think any of us escape this fully but, as long as we remain teachable and STOP being know it all's!
God help us!

 

[Enoch111]

Could it be that we have invoked the curses of God upon our own heads making ourselves uglier still.

We must carefully distinguish between the world and the true children of God. The above applies to the world but not to the Church.

The Bible says that the whole world lieth in wickedness because Satan in the god of this world. But those who have been saved by grace (the Church) are in the world but not of the world. They are in the Kingdom of Light because they have been translated out of the kingdom of darkness.

So how does this apply to the current situation when the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the rule of law, truth and ethics, and everything that is good and righteous is under attack and being deliberately destroyed by Satan through his minions? What does it mean to be salt and light in this crooked world? That is what Christians must ponder and then apply.

Christians must do two things regarding the above (1) reprove the works (and workers) of darkness and (2) expose the lies of Satan and his minions. Particularly the lies and propaganda of the lying mainstream media.

But the Church (those who are children of God) has a bigger responsibility. That is to see that the Great Commission is fulfilled at this time, and that the true Gospel is preached and published worldwide. While doing this we are to bring help and healing to those who are in dire need, while edifying the saints. Christians should remember that God is on their side and is also restraining the Wicked One, else things would be much worse than they are.

 

[amadeus]

So very agreed John. My guess is that there are "few" who are truly seeking, knocking, coming to the knowledge OF the Truth...a complacent pew warmer (as I once was) does not seek the things of God, they are happy to just believe they are going to go to heaven.
Agreed...just because we might not have understanding "now", does not mean it will never be understood by those who honestly SEEK Him in all things, as like looking for buried treasure! Amen.
Doctrine is important but, some hold so tight to theirs that they become deaf, dumb and blind to the truths that might possible blow their doctrine out the water! That is someone who is too proud to see too proud to change too stiff necked. many on here and I honestly believe that many have no idea this could be speaking to them...I don't think any of us escape this fully but, as long as we remain teachable and STOP being know it all's!
God help us!

I agree! No standing still when the Holy Spirit leading is beckoning us to come on...!

 

[Nancy]

I agree! No standing still when the Holy Spirit leading is beckoning us to come on...!

That's a big for sure Big John!

When He say's "JUMP" we should automatically say "HOW HIGH"!

 

[amadeus]

We must carefully distinguish between the world and the true children of God. The above applies to the world but not to the Church.

Do you believe then that the Church, those who are, or are to be, part of the Body of Christ are ready now? Are there no trials or stumbling that parts of the Body must go through, polishing and being polished, as it were, until each part fits perfectly into the whole in its designated place?

The Bible says that the whole world lieth in wickedness because Satan in the god of this world. But those who have been saved by grace (the Church) are in the world but not of the world. They are in the Kingdom of Light because they have been translated out of the kingdom of darkness.

But is that transformation from darkness to Light an instantaneous thing for each one or is it a growing process as obstacles are overcome along the Way? How does one become an overcomer who is able then to partake of the Tree of Life? [see Rev 2:7]

Jesus had not overcome the world and temptations of men when he first came into it. He has to suffer them temptations and overcome them and he did. Because of Jesus and the Holy Ghost gift it is possible for a man to also become an overcomer.

So how does this apply to the current situation when the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the rule of law, truth and ethics, and everything that is good and righteous is under attack and being deliberately destroyed by Satan through his minions? What does it mean to be salt and light in this crooked world? That is what Christians must ponder and then apply.

The good is under attack as it always has been, but the individual must win, most especially, his own battles in his own heart... the Light against the darkness. To do this requires the Holy Spirit. A person with Holy Spirit who quenches that Spirit in himself hinders and slows the work in himself. The Holy Spirit will win... if not hindered. What is the time limit for completing that work? How incomplete may that work be and still allow the person to enter in and be a part of the Body of Christ?

Christians must do two things regarding the above (1) reprove the works (and workers) of darkness and (2) expose the lies of Satan and his minions. Particularly the lies and propaganda of the lying mainstream media.

You have defined these things here in this society of men as if they might be the first things, but what does Jesus say? If a person seeks first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, will not all of those others things which God deems necessary be added? First things first!

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

I have not named other things first because I have not the certainty which you seem to have that they are first. I do have Jesus' words. I will start from there.

But the Church (those who are children of God) has a bigger responsibility. That is to see that the Great Commission is fulfilled at this time, and that the true Gospel is preached and published worldwide. While doing this we are to bring help and healing to those who are in dire need, while edifying the saints. Christians should remember that God is on their side and is also restraining the Wicked One, else things would be much worse than they are.

 

[Enoch111]

Are there no trials or stumbling that parts of the Body must go through, polishing and being polished, as it were, until each part fits perfectly into the whole in its designated place?

God does use the furnace of affliction to perfect the saints. But we must always distinguish carefully between the fiery trials and tribulations of the saints, and the wrathful judgments which will come upon the unrighteous.

Even though Lot had made the wrong choice by settling in Sodom, and even though he had compromised his family, the Bible calls him "righteous", and God had him taken out of Sodom forcibly before fiery judgments were poured out upon those two cities. There is a lesson there, as well as a lesson in what happened to his wife.