WHICH CHURCHES WERE IN VIEW IN GALATIANS 2 AND ACTS 15?

[Doug]

[Acts 11:19 KJV] "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.".........No Gentiles were being preached to. We have to be careful in assuming which church is being referred to in Galatians 2 and Acts 15. There were churches in Antioch before Paul was saved. Paul persecuted the little flock Jerusalem church and they were scattered as far as Antioch. These churches were not body of Christ churches, they were the little flock Jerusalem churches.

[Acts 15:1 KJV] "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.".........If they came down from Judea, chances are these men who said the Gentile believers had to be circumcised were not from the body of Christ, but from the little flock church (I will explain). ........ [Acts 15:2 KJV] "When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.".........Paul and Barnabas disputed with the men from Judea, not with the body of Christ members. It was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of "them" from Judea should go to Jerusalem about this matter.
Paul could not have been disputing about matters within his ministry, but was dealing with stipulations being imposed on Gentile believers by some of the believing circumcision little flock..........[Galatians 1:22 KJV] "And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:".........Paul says the churches of Judea were in Christ; the Jews in the little flock who believed on the name of Christ were in Christ, not just those in the body of Christ. ........Paul was unknown to the churches of Judea who only knew he persecuted them. That is why I said that those who came down from Judea weren't in the body of Christ, the churches of Judea didn't know Paul..........[Galatians 1:23 KJV] "But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.".......It is very doubtful that those from Judea were in the body of Christ.

There were also some believing Pharisees who were in the little flock, who also said the Gentiles had to keep the law........[Acts 15:5 KJV] "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses."
[Acts 15:6 KJV] "And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter."

[Galatians 2:3 KJV] "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:"
[Galatians 2:4 KJV] "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:"........These false brethren were from the little flock. Paul distinguishes the body of Christ as being those to whom it is said, the false brethren came to spy out "OUR liberty", and in saying, which "WE have", which did not include the false brethren from the little flock. The little flock wanted to bring the body of Christ, "US', into bondage.

[Acts 15:22 KJV] "Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:".........The apostle and elders sent chosen men of their own company which is those of the little flock, NOT of the body of Christ along with Paul and Barnabas. This wasn't done by Paul alone. They were sent to the WHOLE church, both the body of Christ and the little flock churches.
[Acts 15:23 KJV] "And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:"
[Acts 15:24 KJV] "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:".......It is certain that those who said the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses were from the little flock churches and not the body of Christ members.
[Acts 15:25 KJV] "It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"........They sent believing little flock members WITH Paul and Barnabas.

The little flock church are those who believed the preaching of Jesus and the twelve. They believed only on the name of Jesus, that he was Christ, the Son of God, and had life by his name. They were persecuted and scattered under Paul. They were still in existence during the conversion and early ministry of Paul. The elders and apostles from the little flock church met with Paul in the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The dispute arose from the little flock saying that Gentiles would have to follow the law of Moses. The little flock were the ones who disputed with Paul. This question would have impacted Paul who was preaching liberty in Christ and that Gentiles weren't under the law.

 

[complete]

' And when there had been much disputing,
Peter rose up, and said unto them,
Men and brethren,
ye know how that a good while ago
God made choice among us,
that the Gentiles by my mouth
should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness,
giving them the Holy Ghost, even as He did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God,
to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples,
which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ
we shall be saved, even as they.'
(Act 15:7-11)

Praise God!

 

[bdavidc]

Paul could not have been disputing about matters within his ministry, but was dealing with stipulations being imposed on Gentile believers by some of the believing circumcision little flock

Here you go again with the same false teachings, but a new thread. Please stop it with your false teachings.

You are forcing Scripture to say what it never says. There is no verse anywhere that teaches two churches running side by side. Not one. What you call the “little flock” is what Jesus Himself said would become “one flock” ~John 10:16, and Paul explains exactly how. Christ “hath made both one” and created “one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. One means one.

Acts 11:19 does not describe a different church. It describes an early stage of witness. Luke corrects that himself when Gentiles believe and are added by the same Lord ~Acts 11:20–21. Luke never announces a new body, a new program, or a new church. He shows one church growing.

Acts 15 does not show two churches arguing. It shows one church correcting error. Luke calls them “brethren” ~Acts 15:1, and Peter settles the issue by saying God made “no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith” ~Acts 15:9. No difference destroys your entire system.

Galatians 1 does not support you. Paul says the churches of Judea were “in Christ.” He does not say “in Christ but not in the body.” You are adding words God did not write. Not knowing Paul by face proves geography, not doctrine.

The “false brethren” in Galatians 2 were not a different church. They were legalists inside the church. Paul calls their teaching bondage because it corrupts the gospel ~Galatians 2:4. Error inside the body does not create a second body.

Acts 15:22 says the decision was made with “the whole church.” Singular. Messengers from Jerusalem do not equal a separate organism. Scripture never says two churches existed.

You keep appealing to labels and categories that Scripture never uses because the plain text will not support your conclusion. “There is one body, and one Spirit” ~Ephesians 4:4. “By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body” ~1 Corinthians 12:13. Paul did not reveal a second church. He explained the unity God had already established.

This is not deep truth. It is division dressed up as insight. “Is Christ divided?” ~1 Corinthians 1:13. The Word of God settles it. Stop dividing what Christ made one.

 

[complete]

Hello @Doug,

Knowledge concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, was made known through Paul the Lord's Prisoner, to the saints and faithful in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, and by word of mouth to all who came to see him in his place of confinement, at the end of the Acts period. Before that this knowledge was 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:8-9), since the world began, therefore incapable of being searched out by such as the Bereans, praised in Acts 17:11 for searching the Scriptures daily to see if what was said was indeed so. Knowledge of this calling requires revelation from above, therefore Paul prayed for the Ephesians in 1:17-, that the eyes of their understanding would be enlightened.

Your searching to find two churches is futile, Doug, in fact it is a mark of unbelief, for you are looking for what the Scriptures have said has been 'hid in God' throughout that period. You too need to pray that prayer, along with myself, and all who would know the truth concerning this calling, for it is the only way that this knowledge will become yours.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

You are forcing Scripture to say what it never says. There is no verse anywhere that teaches two churches running side by side. Not one. What you call the “little flock” is what Jesus Himself said would become “one flock” ~John 10:16, and Paul explains exactly how. Christ “hath made both one” and created “one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. One means one.

[John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.".............this verse is talking about bringing the scattered Jews outside of Jerusalem back to form one fold..........[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

 

[Doug]

Acts 11:19 does not describe a different church. It describes an early stage of witness. Luke corrects that himself when Gentiles believe and are added by the same Lord ~Acts 11:20–21. Luke never announces a new body, a new program, or a new church. He shows one church growing.

Why would Luke talk about there being a new church when it wasnt revealed til Paul was converted. The church in Acts 11:19 was the little flock Paul persecuted.

 

[bdavidc]

Why would Luke talk about there being a new church when it wasnt revealed til Paul was converted. The church in Acts 11:19 was the little flock Paul persecuted.

This has already been explained, plainly and from Scripture. I already showed that Luke calls it “the church” before Paul’s ministry unfolds ~Acts 9:31, that Jesus promised one church before Paul was converted ~Matthew 16:18, and that Luke presents Acts 11 as expansion, not replacement ~Acts 11:20–21. I also already showed that Paul himself said he persecuted “the church of God,” singular ~1 Corinthians 15:9, and that Gentiles are brought into “the same body,” not a later one ~Ephesians 3:6.

Nothing new has been raised here. The biblical answer was given. Scripture settled it.

Repeating the claim does not overturn what the text already says.

 

[bdavidc]

[John 10:16 KJV] "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.".............this verse is talking about bringing the scattered Jews outside of Jerusalem back to form one fold..........[John 11:52 KJV] "And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad."

Your questions were already answered in this post, from the very verses you keep circling. John 10:16 does not say “scattered Jews outside Jerusalem.” It says “other sheep… not of this fold,” and the result is “one fold, and one shepherd” ~John 10:16. You are adding a limitation the text never gives.

John 11:52 shuts your argument down even harder. It says “not for that nation only.” That is explicit. If it is not for that nation only, then it cannot be restricted to Jews scattered abroad ~John 11:52.

Paul then explains exactly how this works. Christ “hath made both one” and created “one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. Gentiles are “of the same body” ~Ephesians 3:6. There is “one body” ~Ephesians 4:4. Scripture never introduces a second church.

This has already been answered. Again, repeating your claim does not create a second flock. The Bible says one Shepherd, one flock, one body.

 

[Doug]

Acts 15 does not show two churches arguing.

That is based on ignoring that Paul persecuted a church before the body of Christ was formed.

 

[Doug]

Galatians 1 does not support you. Paul says the churches of Judea were “in Christ.” He does not say “in Christ but not in the body.” You are adding words God did not write. Not knowing Paul by face proves geography, not doctrine.

The little flock was also in Christ. It doesnt matter that the churches of Judea didnt see Paul in person, what is pertinent is that they stated what they heard and that was only that Paul was preaching the faith but they didnt say they heard the gospel he preached

 

[Doug]

Here you go again with the same false teachings, but a new thread. Please stop it with your false teachings.

You are forcing Scripture to say what it never says. There is no verse anywhere that teaches two churches running side by side. Not one. What you call the “little flock” is what Jesus Himself said would become “one flock” ~John 10:16, and Paul explains exactly how. Christ “hath made both one” and created “one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. One means one.

Acts 11:19 does not describe a different church. It describes an early stage of witness. Luke corrects that himself when Gentiles believe and are added by the same Lord ~Acts 11:20–21. Luke never announces a new body, a new program, or a new church. He shows one church growing.

Acts 15 does not show two churches arguing. It shows one church correcting error. Luke calls them “brethren” ~Acts 15:1, and Peter settles the issue by saying God made “no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith” ~Acts 15:9. No difference destroys your entire system.

Galatians 1 does not support you. Paul says the churches of Judea were “in Christ.” He does not say “in Christ but not in the body.” You are adding words God did not write. Not knowing Paul by face proves geography, not doctrine.

The “false brethren” in Galatians 2 were not a different church. They were legalists inside the church. Paul calls their teaching bondage because it corrupts the gospel ~Galatians 2:4. Error inside the body does not create a second body.

Acts 15:22 says the decision was made with “the whole church.” Singular. Messengers from Jerusalem do not equal a separate organism. Scripture never says two churches existed.

You keep appealing to labels and categories that Scripture never uses because the plain text will not support your conclusion. “There is one body, and one Spirit” ~Ephesians 4:4. “By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body” ~1 Corinthians 12:13. Paul did not reveal a second church. He explained the unity God had already established.

This is not deep truth. It is division dressed up as insight. “Is Christ divided?” ~1 Corinthians 1:13. The Word of God settles it. Stop dividing what Christ made one.

What is the gospel we need to believe to be saved?
If I asked this before I apologize but please answer the gospel you believe

 

[bdavidc]

Knowledge concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, was made known through Paul the Lord's Prisoner, to the saints and faithful in Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, and by word of mouth to all who came to see him in his place of confinement, at the end of the Acts period. Before that this knowledge was 'hid in God' (Eph. 3:8-9), since the world began, therefore incapable of being searched out by such as the Bereans, praised in Acts 17:11 for searching the Scriptures daily to see if what was said was indeed so. Knowledge of this calling requires revelation from above, therefore Paul prayed for the Ephesians in 1:17-, that the eyes of their understanding would be enlightened.

Your searching to find two churches is futile, Doug, in fact it is a mark of unbelief, for you are looking for what the Scriptures have said has been 'hid in God' throughout that period. You too need to pray that prayer, along with myself, and all who would know the truth concerning this calling, for it is the only way that this knowledge will become yours.

Scripture does not teach a mysterious church age which began after Acts and was only revealed through Paul’s letters during his imprisonment. Jesus commissioned His church before Paul was even a Christian ~Matthew 16:18. Luke refers to “the church” over and over BEFORE Paul’s prison epistles ~Acts 5:11; ~Acts 9:31. Paul claims to have persecuted “the church of God” ~1 Corinthians 15:9. It existed long before.

Ephesians 3 does not say the truth was unsearchable until after the book of Acts. Paul says the mystery “is now revealed” ~Ephesians 3:5. Paul reasoned with people about the doctrines he preached and PROVED them from the Scriptures ~Acts 17:2–3; ~Acts 28:23. The Bereans get a commendation because apostolic teaching should be SEARCHED in Scripture ~Acts 17:11.

Prayer for illumination ~Ephesians 1: 17 concerns what God has revealed so we might understand it, not secret knowledge that has been hidden from other believers. The Bible is sufficient and complete ~2 Timothy 3:16–17.

There is one body, revealed openly, preached publicly and truths about it are SEARCHABLE in Scripture ~Ephesians 2:14–16; ~Ephesians 3:6; ~Ephesians 4:4. If your doctrine promotes hidden revelation or tells you not to test it by Scripture, it’s not biblical.

 

[bdavidc]

What is the gospel we need to believe to be saved?
If I asked this before I apologize but please answer the gospel you believe

Jesus explained it Himself. Simple. Clear. Repeatedly. No mystery. No mechanism. His words. Jesus said, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” ~Mark 1:15.
The gospel starts with repenting and believing unto Him.

Jesus said, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” ~John 3:16. It’s about believing in the Son, not a system, not understanding, not waiting for the right time.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” ~John 5:24. Life is received by hearing His word and believing God about Him.

Near the end of His ministry, even after His resurrection, Jesus summed it up. “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations” ~Luke 24:46–47. Suffering. Death. Burial. Resurrection. Repentance. Forgiveness. His name. Every nation. One gospel.

Jesus never taught two gospels. He never implied there were secret gospels. He never instructed people to wait for revelation. He called sinners to repent and believe. That’s the gospel according to Jesus. Everything else is commentary.

 

[Doug]

Your searching to find two churches is futile, Doug,

As far as there being one church please answer these questions:

If there is one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve and Paul are all for us.

[Matthew 28:19 KJV] "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
[Matthew 28:20 KJV] "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen."............the twelve were to teach the nations to observe ALL things he commanded them. The teachings of Jesus and the twelve are one and the same.

If there is only one true church then the teachings of Jesus and the twelve apply to us. If this is so then some verses need to be addressed.

[Luke 12:33 KJV] "Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth."..........This verse would apply to whoever says there is one church. If there is one church then this command from Christ applies because ALL teachings and commands do. HAVE YOU SOLD ALL, IF NOT, WHY DOESNT THIS APPLY TO YOU?

[Matthew 24:14 KJV] "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."...........are you preaching the gospel of the kingdom? Are you preaching the prophetic kingdom on earth is at hand? Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and commanded the twelve to preach it. The gospel was the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years was at hand. It demanded repentance and water baptism. This command applies if there is one true church. ARE YOU PRECHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM?

[Acts 2:38 KJV] "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."..........If there is one true church then this command applies. To have sins forgiven (remitted) water baptism is required, otherwise sins aren't washed away. DID YOU GET WATER BAPTIZED? IF SO DID YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT WAS TO WASH AWY YOUR SINS?

[Matthew 6:14 KJV] "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:"
[Matthew 6:15 KJV] "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."........This teaching applies to the one true church. Ones sins can't be forgiven unless one forgives others. THIS COMMAND CAUSES A DILEMMA. The one true church requires us to apply all the teachings of Jesus and the twelve, but Paul is an apostle in the one church as well and his teachings and commands apply as well. Paul teaches we are forgiven ALL trespasses..........[Colossians 2:13 KJV] "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"...........How do you reconcile this?. The twelve would have to teach we need to forgive to be forgiven. Paul teaches we have all forgiveness. Who's teaching on this do we follow? The way to reconcile this is to acknowledge there are two churches with different commands and teachings.
WHOSE TEACHING ON FORGIVENESS SHOULD YOU FOLLOW? DO YOU FOLLOW JESUS AND BELIEVE YOU MUST FORGIVE TO BE FOREGIVEN OR PAUL WHO SAYS YOU HAVE ALL FOREGIVENESS?

I only gave a few scriptures as examples, but all of the teachings of Jesus, the twelve, and Paul would require application if there were only one church.

 

[Doug]

John 11:52 shuts your argument down even harder. It says “not for that nation only.” That is explicit. If it is not for that nation only, then it cannot be restricted to Jews scattered abroad ~John 11:52.

[Ezekiel 37:22 KJV] "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"..........there were two nations, Israel was divided

 

[bdavidc]

[Ezekiel 37:22 KJV] "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"..........there were two nations, Israel was divided

This is the same move again, just dressed in different clothes. Ezekiel 37 is about two nations becoming one nation under one king. That is national restoration. Land. Kingdom. Israel. No argument there. But John 11 is not talking about nations becoming one nation. It is talking about people being gathered into one through Christ’s death.

John does not stutter. “Not for that nation only” ~John 11:52. If it is not for that nation only, you do not get to shove it back into Israel-only categories. The verse itself forbids it.

And John tells you exactly who is being gathered. “The children of God” ~John 11:52. Scripture already defines that. “As many as received him… the sons of God” ~John 1:12. “Ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” ~Galatians 3:26. Faith, not bloodline.

Paul then explains the outcome in words you keep stepping over. Christ “hath made both one” and created “one new man” ~Ephesians 2:14–15. Not two restored groups running side by side. One. “There is one body” ~Ephesians 4:4.

You keep running to Old Testament nation language to dodge New Testament clarity. That is not depth. That is avoidance. Scripture is not confused here. Christ died not for one nation only, but to gather His people into one. Stop dividing what the cross made one.