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Who are true believers?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by surrendersacrifice, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. surrendersacrifice

    surrendersacrifice New Member

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    True believers are people who believe God. They, therefore, value what God says and stands for; keep His commandments (John 14:15; 1 John 2:3-6); and live a Godly life. Should not they, therefore, like Jesus, love those who hate them (Luke 6:27) and sacrifice their own interest in order to compensate for the offenses their offenders have caused them? God stayed faithful to His people although they abandoned Him and were unfaithful to Him. Should not true believers, therefore, always stay faithful to their spouse; even if their spouse has been unfaithful to them (Hosea 3:1)? In addition, because God is love, true believers will have an absolute trust, that through love all problems can be solved. Should not they, therefore, not resort to law suites (1 Corinthians 6:7), revenge (Romans 12:19) and war (Matthew 5:21-22; Matthew 26:52; Ephesians 2:14-16 & Zech 4:6)?
     
  2. bonzion

    bonzion New Member

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    believer Or True Believer, Any Difference?
     
  3. RobinD69

    RobinD69 New Member

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    Even the Demons of hell believe,but they reject.A True believer is one who accepts the truth of the Lord.Too often we as believers show our rejection of the Lord by following the ways of this world and ignoring His teachings.
     
  4. Dunamite

    Dunamite New Member

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    (bonzion;28258)
    believer Or True Believer, Any Difference?
    1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20 whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.Two apostles, the same theme. Faith is nothing if it bears no fruit. We aren't saved by our works, but our works show how deeply we understood what we were committing to. If we only superficially got the message then we did not really understand what God is asking of us. Therefore our agreement was not valid.It isn't the words that saves us, because words can lie. We can fool ourselves, but never God. As the passage from 1 John shows, God looks into our heart. It can not deceive.It is precarious for us to judge the salvation of others by their actions. We cannot look into their heart and see their sincerity. We cannot know the whole of their lives as God does. What we see and what God sees are two different things. Salvation is a journey. Justification is based on what God sees. Sanctification takes the whole of our lives.We can know what is in our own heart. Some people who call themselves Christians have a heart of stone. They seem to be unfeeling and uncaring. We cannot know their status with God, but we can pray for them. They are not where God wants them to be and maybe they are not where they think they are.We should be able to tell other Christians by our love. We know that many who go by his name will be rejected because Jesus will say that he did not know them. This is truly sad, but it is a fate who awaits many in the church. They did not lose their salvation, they just never had it.Blessings,Dunamite
     
  5. RobinD69

    RobinD69 New Member

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    Many who claim to be Christian are too wrapped up in repetitive cerimonies.They are like the Pharasees and the Sadusees,and they dont even realize it.Yes we are to follow the Lord with all our heart soul and mind,but who truly does this?We all fall short of the glory of God and this is why we must humble ourselves and listen to the Lord and stop following the world.None of us are capable of a complete commitment,this is not a cop out but a fact of our human nature.Usualy the selfrighteous want us to follow a set of rules in order to prove our salvation,study this read that stick to the cariculam.These are good things but they are secondary to the leading of the Lord.The true believers are those who here His voice and serve Him.He will not lead you to do something contrary to scripture,but He will lead you to see just how much all of scripture is connected without adding to or taking away from it.
     
  6. Squeak

    Squeak New Member

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    (Dunamite;28286)
    1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20 whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God James 2: 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.Two apostles, the same theme. Faith is nothing if it bears no fruit. We aren't saved by our works, but our works show how deeply we understood what we were committing to. If we only superficially got the message then we did not really understand what God is asking of us. Therefore our agreement was not valid.It isn't the words that saves us, because words can lie. We can fool ourselves, but never God. As the passage from 1 John shows, God looks into our heart. It can not deceive.It is precarious for us to judge the salvation of others by their actions. We cannot look into their heart and see their sincerity. We cannot know the whole of their lives as God does. What we see and what God sees are two different things. Salvation is a journey. Justification is based on what God sees. Sanctification takes the whole of our lives.We can know what is in our own heart. Some people who call themselves Christians have a heart of stone. They seem to be unfeeling and uncaring. We cannot know their status with God, but we can pray for them. They are not where God wants them to be and maybe they are not where they think they are.We should be able to tell other Christians by our love. We know that many who go by his name will be rejected because Jesus will say that he did not know them. This is truly sad, but it is a fate who awaits many in the church. They did not lose their salvation, they just never had it.Blessings,Dunamite
    I just wanted to say Thank you to Dunamite for this response. It has helped me a great deal.Squeak
     
  7. Unorthodox Christian

    Unorthodox Christian New Member

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    3 types of believers, True Believer, Make Believer and Non-believer
     
  8. SpiritSoldier

    SpiritSoldier New Member

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    Wow quite the discussion going on here. I would like to add my piece here. The mistake is to say there is two kinds of people in the world. the people that love the world and love jesus. The correct analysis I believe would be to say there are two kinds of believersTrue-follow God's will and purpose for their lives given through the teaching of his word (Law+Savior+Love) (House built on Rock/Yahweh God)False-follow Church's view or world view of Christian belief and profess,confess,and attest to the truth(ministry,church attendance,witness etc) however that does not necessarily mean their hearts are one with him. remember actions don't save only the savior. (House built on Sand/Works)I don't want you to believe my answers but to make you question with inside yourself for your own answers...
     
  9. SpiritSoldier

    SpiritSoldier New Member

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    To be more specific The fake or unfathiful Christian--People who Attend Church, Tithe, Pray, Read Bible, Evangelize, but have little impact on their world outside of that and many would characterize they are conforming to the world. People who look to or rely soley on the cross. These people do what I call ACT OUT THEIR FAITH. To be more specific they do things that others might notice and win acceptance in the Christian Community and they think that their actions make them Christians when they do the activites listed above their faith is complete as they would have it. However like Christ Yashua said these may be the people who are the ones that will call him Lord, Lord but their hearts are far from him. These are likely the Christians that fear judgements as Church Teaches. Don't get me wrong these are "Nice people" or "Good people" in the World's eyes but what about God's eyes? They may being do these works trying to save themselves or serve him. But just because they do these many things doesn't mean they love their neighbor as themself or love God with all their heart, These people may not even know how to pray properly because they have lost touch with their heart by doing these many things and they may have lost their passion of the Christ and have it for the Christ. However these people may very well have an honest sincere will to serve GOD. They build their house on Sand (Church) and when the storm comes they are swifted away. "Lukewarm Faith" May describe these types of people. This is really sad to me because these people may or may not be living life through Christ.I strongly believe there is true christians in this world and this is more a personal view than general or popular view of what it means to be a Christian most people will give wide variances of definitions. (again this is a work in progress folks)The True or Faithful Christian--People who follow their heart, People who live with passion for life and ultimately GOD, People who deny themselves and take up their own cross to follow in the footsteps of Yashua. His Disciples are messangers of good news and arks of truth. People who know true freedom in Christ. They are souls set free from sin and walk in love. They demonstrate characteristics similar to that of their savior as they work to imitate his life. That are not just "Nice people" or "good people" they are "God's People" see where we get our identity? Not in ourselves or each other but in Yahweh God. Those in touch with themselves and their hearts they don't simply wander in and out they breath it all in. People who know the power of prayer. Pray is our essence of life it encompasses our every decision our blessings our pain and suffering our joy and happiness it brings us closeness in relationship to GOD when we pray we do so from the heart. People who count the cost and consider their deaths as a offering to their Savior and the Almighty. These are those who ears to hear and hearts to understand God's Word. The difference is we LIVE out our faith in Love and fruit is the result. They follow the law given by GOD which is the first five books of Moses it brings us order and grants righteouess we obey the precepts of God and not Man. The chorus of their hearts are Love we are compelled through love to obey and fear him and not his judgement.These people I believe are the present day Israelites I like to consider us CHRISTIAN ISRAELITES. These are not only the ones who understand their role but fulfill it. They study their history and remember who God's Chosen People are...the Israelites. The minority...The Light of the World...The redeemed... They know ignorance is not a solid excuse folly is not a firm footing their build their house on the Rock/Yahweh God(Law+Savior+Love) and become strong.
     
  10. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Close but not quite The Law is the Ten comandments Jesus says he comes not to change one iota of the Law He cmes to fulfill it yes but we are always under the Law They were never completly fulfiled and wont be until the End we are under the Law of the commandments.What Jesus did was fulfil and replace was all the Ordances,Precepts,Statutes of the Old testament (that is all the religious rituals)Example: the sacrafices, circumcision, unclean food, priest having to perform certain duties:) ect.
     
  12. Daniel Lang

    Daniel Lang New Member

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    The gospel without controversy (it should be), is that the Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures (the Old Testament), He was buried and He rose again the third day according to all the writings of the prophets. This is the gospel, the good news Yeshua preached after His resurrection (Luke 24:25-26, 44-45). The gospel Paul imitated (1 Cor 15:1-6), and the gospel the apostles gave the right hand of fellowship (Gal 2). Yeshua, the Christ, and His gospel are the same yesterday, today and forever.This is the gospel that each of us accepted by grace according to His will, if indeed grace was given. One moment we could not accept, the next moment we accepted. After grace Yeshua of Nazareth was the Christ, He who the scriptures foretold would come. There was no argument concerning the writings of the prophets, they were the word of God. Yeshua died for our sins, He was buried and He rose again the third day. It was true through and through. We did not strive or attempt to work up faith, it simply was "the faith of Yeshua", a free gift.And the gospel is preached, and by the same grace men consort or attach themselves to others of like precious faith. For example "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, opening and alleging, that the Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead: and that this Yeshua, whom I preach to you, is the Christ. And some of them believed and consorted with Paul and Silas (these are the children of grace), and of the devout Greeks a great multitude (these are more the children of grace chosen by God), and of the chief women not a few (more), but the Jews (of Thessalonica) which believed not, moved with envy" (Act 17:2ff) There were some chosen of God and some who were not. This is all the will of God.So who is a believer? Those who accept the gospel (by the will and grace of God: God makes choice) and assembling with those of like precious faith will follow. And who is not the believer? Those who do not accept the words of the gospel preached (again by the will of God), and set themselves apart from God's grace. All of this is sure and true, if indeed the gospel is preached. I know what gospel I preach.Daniel
     
  13. SpiritSoldier

    SpiritSoldier New Member

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    Isaiah 66:17"Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together," declares the LORDNow The law still applies in keeping sabbath,eating unclean things, shaving, hair growth, mixed garments, etc. Did Christ fullfill the commandment of not shaving by having a beard? No He fullfilled the law of sacrifice by being the Sacrifice he fullfilled the temple rituals because he is the TempleRevelation 21:2222I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.Matthew 26:61Finally two came forward 61and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' It is our duty to keep the rest of the commandments that don't apply to temple or sacrifice like eating pig and wearing mixed garments because these things he did not fulfill or abolishMatthew 5:17The Fulfillment of the Law 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill themWe certainly do not obey the law to earn salvation or to avoid punishment but to honor God which for me is compelled through Love for the supreme being. To follow Christ I invite you all to ask the question and search within yourself. I don't like what's "popular belief among christians" there is no mistaking the truth and if it is the truth it will stand please fear God not anything or anyone else on the earth.1 John 4:1818There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
     
  14. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (SpiritSoldier;28436)
    Isaiah 66:17"Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together," declares the LORDNow The law still applies in keeping sabbath,eating unclean things, shaving, hair growth, mixed garments, etc. Did Christ fullfill the commandment of not shaving by having a beard? No He fullfilled the law of sacrifice by being the Sacrifice he fullfilled the temple rituals because he is the TempleRevelation 21:2222I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.Matthew 26:61Finally two came forward 61and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' It is our duty to keep the rest of the commandments that don't apply to temple or sacrifice like eating pig and wearing mixed garments because these things he did not fulfill or abolishMatthew 5:17The Fulfillment of the Law 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them
    Sorry.. I'm confused. Are you saying that we cannot "wear mixed garments" (no idea what that even means) and not eat pork? That we are still called to refrain from those things?
     
  15. SpiritSoldier

    SpiritSoldier New Member

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    (Peacebewithyou;28443)
    Sorry.. I'm confused. Are you saying that we cannot "wear mixed garments" (no idea what that even means) and not eat pork? That we are still called to refrain from those things?
    Precisely! We should obey these commandments as well as the rest in keeping with the word of God I know this is not what you hear in Church but it is through my personal journey that I have discovered what I believe is the Godly way to Live in accordance to his word.
     
  16. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Isaiah 66:17{quote}"Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together," declares the LORDNow The law still applies in keeping sabbath,eating unclean things, shaving, hair growth, mixed garments, etc. Did Christ fullfill the commandment of not shaving by having a beard? No He fullfilled the law of sacrifice by being the Sacrifice he fullfilled the temple rituals because he is the Temple{quote}........................wrong these were not all Laws they are Statues ordances extra they were all fulfilled in as much as that we are now saved by Garce belief and reptanceThe only Law we live under is 10 commandments its are how we are supposed to live our daily lives. We are saved by Gracenone of the old testament Statues ans Ordances are in effect
     
  17. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    I'm still curious about what "wearing mixed garments" means?
     
  18. SpiritSoldier

    SpiritSoldier New Member

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    It pains me to hear you say that Kriss.mixed garment-any clothing not 100% material
     
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