Who is "James?"

[Taken]

AFTER Jesus' death AND resurrection...
Scripture records Jesus appearing to James.

AFTER Jesus' death AND resurrection
Mary and Jesus' brothers are in one accord with Believers IN Jesus.

AFTER Jesus' death AND resurrection James, Became an Advocate for Jesus.

AFTER Jesus' death AND resurrection the Book of James, is attributed to authorship of James, brother of Jesus.

James, brother of Jesus, (Gal 1:19) is not to be confused with ...

Apostle James, son of Alphaeus
Apostle James, son of Zebedee

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Soul]

... Adelphos does not mean kinsmen in the sense of uncles, cousins, nephews etc. It means a brother by blood! Not anything else.

In the Koine Greek translation of the Hebrew word "אחים" ('âchiem [brothers]) in Gen. 13:8 and "אָח" ('âch [brother]) in Gen. 14:16, the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos [brother]) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi [brothers]) were used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot which was that of uncle and nephew. So, does it mean Abraham and Lot were siblings?

In the Koine Greek translation for the Hebrew word "אָח" ('âch [brother]) in Gen. 29:15, the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos [brother]) were used to describe the relationship between Jacob and Laban which was that of uncle and nephew. So, does it mean Jacob and Laban were siblings?

In the Koine Greek translation for the Hebrew word "אחים" ('âchiem [brothers]) in 1 Chr. 23:21–22, the word "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi [brothers]) was used to describe whom the daughters of Eleazar married: their cousins. So, does it mean the daughters of Eleazar married their siblings?

אָח ('âch)
Definiton
Brown-Driver-Briggs'

1) brother
1a) brother of same parents
1b) half-brother (same father)
1c) relative, kinship, same tribe
1d) each to the other (reciprocal relationship)
1e) (figuratively) of resemblance

Definition
Strong's

A primitive word; a brother (used in the widest sense of literal relationship and metaphorical affinity or resemblance (like H1)): - another, brother (-ly), kindred, like, other. Compare also the proper names beginning with «Ah-» or «Ahi-».

Greek Equivalent Words:
Strong #: 80 ‑ ἀδελφός (ad‑el‑fos'); 1451 ‑ ἐγγύς (eng‑goos'); 2087 ‑ ἕτερος (het'‑er‑os);

Clearly, I was not wrong when I said one of the meanings of "ἀδελφός" (adelphos [brother]) or "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi [brothers]) is "kinsman" or "kinsmen," e.g., sibling(s), uncle(s), nephew(s), cousin(s), etc. But just for kicks, let us hear your explanation for why the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) were used to describe an uncle, nephew, and cousin, etc., if they only describe a sibling and not anything else as you claim.

Their styles may be different but they use the same koine Greek.

You point out the NT authors all used Koine Greek as if that is some counter to my point they wrote in different styles using Koine Greek. You may as well have said, "Ernest Hemingway and the author of Twilight both use English! So, there is very little difference between them," for all the good that did.

so cite those early Christians and we can see if you are accurate as far as what they say!

Again, I cited them in the OP.

Origen denied th edeity of Jesus for over a decade, shoulod we accept that as well?

Actually, Origen did not deny the deity of Jesus, rather, believed He was lesser in His divinity compared to the Father. Whether we believe he was right or wrong on that point does not make most early Christians wrong on another point.

All the rest you wrote about James is just hearsay and opinion of romanism...

How so?


You still need to address this: "You merely stating it was the Pharisees speaking in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and that we can only conclude Simon, Joseph, James, Jude (Judas) were Jesus' brothers as in "kinsmen," specifically, siblings, does not make it so. You need to explain (i) how you concluded that it was the Pharisees speaking in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, (ii) why whoever was speaking in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 could not have been specifically naming some of Jesus' next of kin if He did not have siblings, and (iii) why we can only conclude Simon, Joseph, James, Jude (Judas) were Jesus' siblings.

...

Additionally ... Jn. 19:25 says, "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene." In this verse, only Mary of Cleophas/Clopas was called Mary of Josephs' sister (ἀδελφή [adelphe]). Do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters, as in siblings? Or do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters as in fellow believers and thus excluded disciple Mary Magdalene?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Clearly, I was not wrong when I said one of the meanings of "ἀδελφός" (adelphos [brother]) or "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi [brothers]) is "kinsman" or "kinsmen," e.g., sibling(s), uncle(s), nephew(s), cousin(s), etc. But just for kicks, let us hear your explanation for why the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) were used to describe an uncle, nephew, and cousin, etc., if they only describe a sibling and not anything else as you claim.

Clearly you are wrong! Ah- is a word that means kin. Just because adelphos was used in its place does not make adelphos to mean kin.

You used Brown Drivers and Briggs for Ah. Then Strongs for adelphos . You ignore culture and possible grammatical inability to accurately transfer one word to teh another language.

But Adelphios in Strongs:

adelphos ἄλφα (G1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Greek Inflections of ἀδελφός ἀδελφέ — 5x
Ἀδελφέ — 1x
ἀδελφοὶ — 30x
ἀδελφοί — 111x
Ἀδελφοί — 8x
ἀδελφοῖς — 17x
ἀδελφὸν — 33x
ἀδελφόν — 9x
ἀδελφὸς — 28x
ἀδελφός — 15x
ἀδελφοῦ — 17x
ἀδελφοὺς — 28x
ἀδελφούς — 11x
ἀδελφῷ — 13x
ἀδελφῶν — 20x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: brethren (226x), brother (113x), brother's (6x), brother's way (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
   
   
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
   
   
3. any fellow or man
   
   
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
   
   
5. an associate in employment or office
   
   
6. brethren in Christ
   
   
   1. his brothers by blood

Brown Driver Briggs are excellent at Hebrew but not Greek. To declare that James, Joses, Simon and Judah are not Jesus brothers due to how "ah" is translated form Hebrew to greek in some (not all ) cases is ludicrous. Especially when all major lexicons, concordances and Greek Scholars all agree that adelphos does not mean couosin, nephew, uncle etc.

Cousin = syngenēs (Key)

The KJV translates Strong's G4773 in the following manner: kinsman (7x), cousin (2x), kinsfolk (2x), kin (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. of the same kin, akin to, related by blood
   
   
2. in a wider sense, of the same nation, a fellow countryman
   

Nowhere, I repeat no where does adelphos mean kinsmen! That is not how it was used then!

this is the koine and very common word used to call someone who is related but not the immediate family! YOu just cannot justify your argument.

there is just too much evidence against it not just from Scripture but linguistic experts.

 

[Soul]

Clearly you are wrong!

You said, "... Adelphos does not mean kinsmen in the sense of uncles, cousins, nephews etc. It means a brother by blood [sibling] Not anything else."

The meanings for the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) by Liddell, Scott, and Jones include "kinsman." See below.

ἀδελφοìς
Definitions
Liddell-Scott-Jones

2. kinsman, ib. Gen. 13:8...

The meanings for the word "אָח" ('âch) by Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius, and Strong each include "kinsman." You will also read that the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) is equivalent to the word "אָח" ('âch), per Strong, for example. See below.

אָח ('âch)
Definition
Brown-Driver-Briggs'

1c) relative, kinship, same tribe...

Gesenius' Hebrew and Chaldee Definition
אָח construct אֲחִי, with suff. אָחִי (“my brother”), אָחִיךָ, אֲחִיכֶם pl. אַחִים (with dag. occult), const. אֲחֵי, with light suff. אַחֶיךָ, with grave suff. אֲחֵיכֶם, with suff. 3 pers. אֶחָיו for אַהָיו (comp. Lehrg. p. 602), a brother. This word is undoubtedly primitive. Arab. أَخُ, const. st. أَخُو, أَخِى, أَخَا Syr. ܐܰܚܳܐ, Chald. אַח. It follows sometimes the analogy of verbs, לח֞, sometimes that of verbs, עע֞; comp. Lehrg. § 118. When used in a sense not quite strict, it is applied also to those who are not own brothers, as those who are children of one father by different mothers (Gen. 42:15, 43:3 ), or vice versâ to brothers by the same mother but by different fathers (Jdg. 8:19 ), who when greater exactness is used, are called בֶּן אָב, בֶּן אֵם; see בֵּן. Sometimes emphatically used of brethren, both by the father and mother (Gen. 44:20), comp. Gen. 49:5, שִׁמְעוֹן וְלֵוִי אַחִים “Simon and Levi are (true) brethren,” i.e. not only children of one mother, but brethren truly in disposition also.

The word brother is also of wider use amongst the Hebrews, and is used for

(1) any relative, kinsman, Gen. 14:16, “his brother Lot,” prop. his brother’s son, Gen. 13:8, 29:12, 15 Gen. 29:15...

Definition
Strong's

kindred...

Greek Equivalent Words:
Strong #: 80 ‑ ἀδελφός (ad‑el‑fos'); 1451 ‑ ἐγγύς (eng‑goos'); 2087 ‑ ἕτερος (het'‑er‑os);

The following are a few reasons why the words "אָח" ('âch) and "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) are equivalent, meaning they can be used in the same way:

In the Koine Greek translation of the Hebrew words "אחים" ('âchiem) in Gen. 13:8 and "אָח" ('âch) in Gen. 14:16, the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) were used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot which was that of uncle and nephew.

In the Koine Greek translation for the Hebrew word "אָח" ('âch) in Gen. 29:15, the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) was used to describe the relationship between Jacob and Laban which was that of uncle and nephew.

In the Koine Greek translation for the Hebrew word "אחים" ('âchiem) in 1 Chr. 23:21–22, the word "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) was used to describe whom the daughters of Eleazar married: their cousins.

So, why were the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) in Gen. 13:8;16:16;29:15 and 1 Chr. 23:21–22 — which you claim only describe a sibling and not anything else — used to describe the relation of uncles, nephews, and cousins, etc., if not to properly convey the context of the verses and style of the authors when translating the words" אָח" ('âch) and "אחים" ('âchiem)?

Additionally, you need to explain (i) how you concluded that it was the Pharisees speaking in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, (ii) why whoever was speaking could not have been specifically naming some of Jesus' next of kin if He did not have siblings, (iii) why we can only conclude Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) were Jesus' siblings, (iv) why "James" in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Ga. 1:19 was not Apostle James of Alphaeus, (v) why the testimonials of prominent early Christians in the OP are not credible.

Regarding the word "ἀδελφή" (adelphe), Jn. 19:25 says, "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene." In this verse, only Mary of Cleophas/Clopas was called Mary of Josephs' sister (ἀδελφή [adelphe]). Do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters, as in siblings? Or do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters as in fellow believers and thus excluded disciple Mary Magdalene?"

Finally, you are the one who is leaving out historical context and culture by not taking into account the different styles and cultural contexts of the NT authors when they were writing the NT. Despite what you think of the original translators of the Septuagint translators, it was that translation the NT authors were familiar with. And growing up in their Jewish traditions would make them more likely to use the same linguistic conventions as those who translated the Septuagint.

What does not make sense is for modern translators to decide they understand these languages better than the people who actually spoke and wrote in them centuries ago.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You said, "... Adelphos does not mean kinsmen in the sense of uncles, cousins, nephews etc. It means a brother by blood [sibling] Not anything else."

The meanings for the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) by Liddell, Scott, and Jones include "kinsmen." See below.

If you had bothered to check, you would have seen that your vaunted scholars use adelphos as a substitute- which tells us that at the time syngenes was probably not a known word so they had to substitute the closest word to explain. You are just wrong to tryt o defend Jesus four brothers ans cousins they are adelphos and not syngenes in the nt.

a FREE LESSON IN TRANSLATION FOR YOU. MANY TIMES OA WORD IN ONE LANGUAGE DOES NOT TRANSLATE OVER EASILY INTO ANOTHER OR THE NEW LANGUAGE DOES NOT HAVE AN ACCURATE WORD TO TRANSLATRE THE OLD LANGUAGE. SO THEY USE THE CLOSEST WORD AT HAND. THIS IS NOT A "TRANSLATION" PER SE' BUT A TOOL KNKOWN AS A DYNAMIC EQUIVALENT.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The following are a few reasons why the words "אָח" ('âch) and "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) are equivalent, meaning they can be used in the same way:

In the Koine Greek translation of the Hebrew words "אחים" ('âchiem) in Gen. 13:8 and "אָח" ('âch) in Gen. 14:16, the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) were used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot which was that of uncle and nephew.

This morning while ate service and in prayer time, as I was praying for you and BOL and theefaith, God showed this to kme so you will no longer be deceived about Mary staying ever virgin and that James, Joses, Simon and Judah are in fact Jesus' borthers (half) and He had at least 2 half sisters.

Matthew 12:46-50
King James Version

46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Brethren, brother and sister here are all adelphos or adelphi!

So given the rules of grammatic consistency that is in all languages and following your rule that adelphos (i) can mean simply kin then this woud read to you thusly:

46 While He yet talked to the people, behold his mother and cousins stood without desiring to speak with him.

47 Then one said unto him, Behold, your mother and cousins stand without, desairing to speak with thee.

48 But he answered and said unto them that told him, Who is my mother and who are my cousins?

49 And he stretched forth his hand toward the disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my cousins!

50 For whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my cousin, and cousin and mother!

Can't use adelphos in 46 and 47 and 48 to mean cousins or nieces or nephews (according to you Jesus would have had no nieces or nephews)

then have it mean borthers and sisters in 49 and 50. You can do so, but it is wrong in English, Greek and every other language!

Also God has no nephews and nieces- We are either Gods children or we are not! No one is ever told to call God cousin or uncle.

Hope this helps.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This morning while ate service and in prayer time, as I was praying for you and BOL and theefaith, God showed this to kme so you will no longer be deceived about Mary staying ever virgin and that James, Joses, Simon and Judah are in fact Jesus' borthers (half) and He had at least 2 half sisters.

Matthew 12:46-50
King James Version
46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Brethren, brother and sister here are all adelphos or adelphi!

So given the rules of grammatic consistency that is in all languages and following your rule that adelphos (i) can mean simply kin then this woud read to you thusly:

46 While He yet talked to the people, behold his mother and cousins stood without desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, your mother and cousins stand without, desairing to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto them that told him, Who is my mother and who are my cousins?
9 And he stretched forth his hand toward the disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my cousins!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my cousin, and cousin and mother!

Can't use adelphos in 46 and 47 and 48 to mean cousins or nieces or nephews (according to you Jesus would have had no nieces or nephews)
hen have it mean borthers and sisters in 49 and 50. You can do so, but it is wrong in English, Greek and every other language!
Also God has no nephews and nieces- We are either Gods children or we are not! No one is ever told to call God cousin or uncle.

Hope this helps.

WRONG - God didn't show you anything here. It was just YOUR arrogance.
God's not a liar - nor is He an idiot, so don't put that one on HIM . . .

You have been insisting for several pages now that "Adelphos" can ONLY refer to "uterine sibling" and we've ALL showed you - from Scripture - that you're WRONG.

learly, James the Less (Younger), who is called "'Brother' (adelphos) of the Lord" (Gal. 4:19) is NOT the son of Mary, mother of Jesus - but of Mary, wife of Clopas/Alphaeus (John 19:25) and the son of Clopas/Alphaeus (Luke 6:15).

WHY you keep making this idiotic claim that James is the "uterine brother" of Jesus, when Scripture explicitly debunks this idea is beyond me.
It just stupid and embarrassing at this point . . .

 

[Soul]

If you had bothered to check, you would have seen that your vaunted scholars use adelphos as a substitute- which tells us that at the time syngenes was probably not a known word so they had to substitute the closest word to explain.

I am the one who taught you the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) were used in place of the Hebrew words "אָח" ('âch) and "אחים" ('âchiem) to describe uncles, nephews, and cousins when translating Gen. 13:8;16:16;29:15 and 1 Chr. 23:21–22 from Hebrew to Koine Greek. Why do you say this tells us any Koine Greek word(s) that specifically mean uncles, nephews, or cousins were probably unknown to those who translated the OT from Hebrew to Koine Greek? How can you say the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) are the closest words to describe uncles, nephews, and cousins when, according to you, they only mean sibling(s)?

Additionally, you need to explain (i) how you concluded that it was the Pharisees speaking in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, (ii) why whoever was speaking could not have been specifically naming some of Jesus' next of kin if He did not have siblings, (iii) why we can only conclude Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) were Jesus' siblings, (iv) why "James" in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Ga. 1:19 was not Apostle James of Alphaeus, (v) why the testimonials of prominent early Christians in the OP are uncredible.

Regarding the word "ἀδελφή" (adelphe), Jn. 19:25 says, "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene." In this verse, only Mary of Cleophas/Clopas was called Mary of Josephs' sister (ἀδελφή [adelphe]). Do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters, as in siblings? Or do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters as in fellow believers and thus excluded disciple Mary Magdalene?"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

WRONG - God didn't show you anything here. It was just YOUR arrogance.
God's not a liar - nor is He an idiot, so don't put that one on HIM . . .

You have been insisting for several pages now that "Adelphos" can ONLY refer to "uterine sibling" and we've ALL showed you - from Scripture - that you're WRONG.

learly, James the Less (Younger), who is called "'Brother' (adelphos) of the Lord" (Gal. 4:19) is NOT the son of Mary, mother of Jesus - but of Mary, wife of Clopas/Alphaeus (John 19:25) and the son of Clopas/Alphaeus (Luke 6:15).

WHY you keep making this idiotic claim that James is the "uterine brother" of Jesus, when Scripture explicitly debunks this idea is beyond me.
It just stupid and embarrassing at this point . . .

You are a fool and what you accuse others of is actually what you are guilty of. I know of your deflections.

You showed me nothing about adelphos! all you did is show that a translation of the Hebrew into greek used the closest word available at the time

I gave you the definition of adelphos from 2 or more greek dictionaries and no tone of them means blood relative beyond brother.

It is only clearly as you said to those who wish to impose a false doctrine upon SCripture and the spiritually weak to entrap them in a lie!

And please, you suck badly at grammar, so please do not try to say what you think god may or may not show me in prayer! It only makes your foolishness' looks worse.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am the one who taught you the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) were used in place of the Hebrew words "אָח" ('âch) and "אחים" ('âchiem) to describe uncles, nephews, and cousins when translating Gen. 13:8;16:16;29:15 and 1 Chr. 23:21–22 from Hebrew to Koine Greek. Why do you say this tells us any Koine Greek word(s) that specifically mean uncles, nephews, or cousins were probably unknown to those who translated the OT from Hebrew to Koine Greek? How can you say the words "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) and "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) are the closest words to describe uncles, nephews, and cousins when, according to you, they only mean sibling(s)?

Additionally, you need to explain (i) how you concluded that it was the Pharisees speaking in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, (ii) why whoever was speaking could not have been specifically naming some of Jesus' next of kin if He did not have siblings, (iii) why we can only conclude Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) were Jesus' siblings, (iv) why "James" in Mt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and Ga. 1:19 was not Apostle James of Alphaeus, (v) why the testimonials of prominent early Christians in the OP are uncredible.

Regarding the word "ἀδελφή" (adelphe), Jn. 19:25 says, "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene." In this verse, only Mary of Cleophas/Clopas was called Mary of Josephs' sister (ἀδελφή [adelphe]). Do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters, as in siblings? Or do you believe John called Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas sisters as in fellow believers and thus excluded disciple Mary Magdalene?"

SORRY for teh delay. I was 8 days in the hospital having heart surgery.

As for adelphos being substituted for ach and achem? It was the best word available to use by the translators. To make a doctrinal defense by using a word used by translators is quicksand at best. There is simply no information that shows when the Greek wordsa for blood relatives past sister/brother started to be used. Then to insist that the best available word can mean that when written in the language (Greek) is foolish. I have repeatedly posted the original and still viable definition of adelphs and it cannot mean cousin or nephew etc. That should be the big clue that your defense fails from the start.

the reason I say so is that all definitions of adelphos and adelphoi in greek ( notu sed as a word in translation) never refers to cousin or niece, nephew, uncles , aunt etc. Matthew had 2 perfectly good Greek words to use that would have made it absolutely clear that James, Jude, Simon and Joses were cousins of Jesus. But god did not inspire Him to use those words. No one in Jesus day would call a cousin adelphoi!

As to who was speaking?

Matthew 13:54-58
King James Version

54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

You are correct it probably was not pharisees. but people from Jesus town where he grew up!

What you need to prove is that given this definition of brethren when written in the original greek and not used as a word tranlsating from one language to another:

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
   
   
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
   
   
3. any fellow or man
   
   
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
   
   
5. an associate in employment or office
   
   
6. brethren in Christ
   
   
   1. his brothers by blood
      
      
   2. all men
      
      
   3. apostles
      
      
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
      

no place for cousins. to say they were speaking of fellow Jews is foolish for all there then were brethren or sisteren.

No I can post definitions from multiple greek language sourced, but they all say the same thing. #1 is the primary definition used here!

As for John 19: 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

According to you Mary of Cleophas could have been a cousin or niece for all you know and not a sister in law. But no she was Mary's sister in law because she is called "sister". See the greeks back then had no term for a sister by marriage, so they simpler called her sister!

 

[Truman]

SORRY for teh delay. I was 8 days in the hospital having heart surgery.

As for adelphos being substituted for ach and achem? It was the best word available to use by the translators. To make a doctrinal defense by using a word used by translators is quicksand at best. There is simply no information that shows when the Greek wordsa for blood relatives past sister/brother started to be used. Then to insist that the best available word can mean that when written in the language (Greek) is foolish. I have repeatedly posted the original and still viable definition of adelphs and it cannot mean cousin or nephew etc. That should be the big clue that your defense fails from the start.

the reason I say so is that all definitions of adelphos and adelphoi in greek ( notu sed as a word in translation) never refers to cousin or niece, nephew, uncles , aunt etc. Matthew had 2 perfectly good Greek words to use that would have made it absolutely clear that James, Jude, Simon and Joses were cousins of Jesus. But god did not inspire Him to use those words. No one in Jesus day would call a cousin adelphoi!

As to who was speaking?

Matthew 13:54-58
King James Version

54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

You are correct it probably was not pharisees. but people from Jesus town where he grew up!

What you need to prove is that given this definition of brethren when written in the original greek and not used as a word tranlsating from one language to another:

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
   
   
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
   
   
3. any fellow or man
   
   
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
   
   
5. an associate in employment or office
   
   
6. brethren in Christ
   
   1. his brothers by blood
      
      
   2. all men
      
      
   3. apostles
      
      
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

no place for cousins. to say they were speaking of fellow Jews is foolish for all there then were brethren or sisteren.

No I can post definitions from multiple greek language sourced, but they all say the same thing. #1 is the primary definition used here!

As for John 19: 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

According to you Mary of Cleophas could have been a cousin or niece for all you know and not a sister in law. But no she was Mary's sister in law because she is called "sister". See the greeks back then had no term for a sister by marriage, so they simpler called her sister!

Hope you're feeling better, brother!

 

[Accurist]

Matt 13:55 James is the Same LAWFUL (unbelieving) sibling of Jesus, as mentioned in the Gospel according to Mark (Mk 6:3).

In Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) aren't explicitly called Jesus's "siblings"— rather "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi), which translates to "brothers" and has more than one definition, e.g., "fellow believer," "fellow countryman," "kinsman," etc. Therefore, the exact type of relationship between these four individuals and Jesus can't be determined from the word "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) alone.

James, brother of Jesus, (Gal. 1:19) is not to be confused with ...

Apostle James, son of Alphaeus
Apostle James, son of Zebedee

The OP consists of evidence the apostle named "James" and called "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 was Apostle James of Alphaeus. Do you at least agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same?

Edits:
Replace a comma with a period.

 

[Accurist]

Nowhere, I repeat no where does adelphos mean kinsmen!

False. See below:

ἀδελφός (adelphos; plural adelphoi)
Definitions
Liddell-Scott-Jones

2. kinsman, ib.Ge.13.8, al.;...

ἀδελφός (adelphos; plural adelphoi)
Definitions
Mounce

...near kinsman, or relative;

As shown, one of the definitions of the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) is "kinsman" because it's been used to refer to a kinsman, e.g., uncle, nephew, cousin, etc., in Gen. 13:8;14:14;29:15, 1 Chr. 23:22, etc. For this reason, any Lexicons that don't include this definition are in error.

...James, Joses, Simon and Judah are in fact Jesus' borthers (half)

In Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) aren't explicitly called Jesus's "siblings"— rather "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi), which translates to "brothers" and has more than one definition, e.g., "fellow believer," "fellow countryman," "kinsman," etc. Therefore, the exact type of relationship between these four individuals and Jesus can't be determined from the word "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) alone, and thus we must examine the context in which the title is used.

Additionally, do you agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same?

As for John 19: 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

...Mary of Cleophas ... was Mary's sister in law

"εἱστήκεισαν δὲ παρὰ τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀδελφὴ (adelphe) τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ, Μαρία ἡ τοῦ Κλωπᾶ καὶ Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνή" (Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene). (Jn. 19:25)

Now, you said, "...adelphe: 1. a full, own sister 2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion," and thus, according to you, Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas shouldn't be called "sisters" as in anything except siblings or fellow believers. Therefore, why are you calling them sisters-in-law, and why did the NT authors use the word "ἀδελφὴ" (adelphe) which, according to you, cannot be used to describe this type of relationship?

Edits:
Added "now."
Removed verse number 21.
Replaced "...sisters, as in sisters-in-law" with "sisters-in-law."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

False. See below:

As shown, one of the definitions of the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) is "kinsman" because it's been used to refer to a kinsman, e.g., sibling, uncle, nephew, cousin, etc., in Gen. 13:8;16:16;29:15, 1 Chr. 23:21–22, etc. For this reason, any Lexicons that don't include this definition are in error.

Well looking up the LSJ thesaureus linguae gracea online, it dos not give credence to cousin or nephew or niece. I am wondering if you cut the definition down to support your false hypothesis.

It is used for near-kinsmen and that means immediate family like borther- not cousin. You are just wrong. You need to show more than just a snippet

In Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) aren't explicitly called Jesus's "siblings"— rather "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi), which translates to "brothers" and has more than one definition, e.g., "fellow believer," "fellow countryman," "kinsman," etc. Therefore, the exact type of relationship between these four individuals and Jesus can't be determined from the word "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) alone.

Once again the accepted definition of adelphoi, accepted by all biblical greek linguistic specialists is:

The KJV translates Strong's G80 in the following manner: brethren (226x), brother (113x), brother's (6x), brother's way (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
   
   
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
   
   
3. any fellow or man
   
   
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
   
   
5. an associate in employment or office
   

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon



Strong's Number: 80 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
adelfoß from (1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Adelphos 1:144,22
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ad-el-fos' Noun Masculine
Definition

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3. any fellow or man
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5. an associate in employment or office
6. brethren in Christ
   1. his brothers by blood
   2. all men
   3. apostles
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

1. brethren in Christ
   
   
   1. his brothers by blood
      
      
   2. all men
      
      
   3. apostles
      
      
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon



Strong's Number: 80 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ajdelfovß from (1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Adelphos 1:144,22
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ad-el-fos' Noun Masculine
Definition

1. a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
2. having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
3. any fellow or man
4. a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5. an associate in employment or office
6. brethren in Christ
   1. his brothers by blood
   2. all men
   3. apostles
   4. Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

However, a look at Liddell and Scott’s Greek–English Lexicon shows these entries: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dui%28o%2Fs (huios, full), http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Dui%28o%2Fs (huios, concise); http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Da%29delfo%2Fs (adelphos, full), http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Da%29delfo%2Fs (adelphos, concise).

In summary: huios is ‘a son’ while adelphos is ‘a son of the same mother = a brother’. So, pretty much the same as in modern Greek.

So while all brothers are sons, not all sons are brothers, and essentially nobody’s brother is the same person’s son.

the four major sources for understanding biblical greek do not allow for cousin- you are just wrong! and I suspect you shaved the LSJ definition so that you could post the word kinsmen to justify cousin.

 

[Taken]

In Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, Simon, Joseph, James, and Jude (Judas) aren't explicitly called Jesus's "siblings"— rather "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi), which translates to "brothers" and has more than one definition, e.g., "fellow believer," "fellow countryman," "kinsman," etc. Therefore, the exact type of relationship between these four individuals and Jesus can't be determined from the word "ἀδελφοὶ" (adelphoi) alone.

The OP consists of evidence the apostle named "James" and called "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 was Apostle James of Alphaeus. Do you at least agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same?

Matt 13:55 ~ sibling of Jesus.
(Sure, brother has multiple meanings. Expressly mentioned...also Mary and "sisters". That IMO, relates to "lawful", silblings)

Matt 13:55 ~ standing without...outside... Scripturally indicates...NOT WITH.
This James, during the time of Matt 13:55 did not believe.
This James, began believing AFTER Jesus' resurrection.

Gal 1:19 ~ sibling of Jesus.
Apostle James son of Alphaeus?
I don't believe so.
Sibling of Jesus AFTER Jesus' resurrection, became very active in the Chruch. A "Pillar", "Elder", but not one of the "chosen" Apostles.

Mark 6:3 ~ sibling of Jesus

 

[Accurist]

Matt 13:55 ~ sibling of Jesus.
Mark 6:3 ~ sibling of Jesus
Gal 1:19 ~ sibling of Jesus.

You agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same—but you disagree he and Apostle James of Alphaeus were the same.

According to the early Christians quoted in the OP, (i) "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, "James the brother of the Lord," "Apostle James of Alphaeus," "James the Bishop of Jerusalem," "James the Less," "James the Just," and the author of the Epistle of James were the same, and (ii) he, Simon, Joseph, and Jude (Judas) were sons of Joseph's brother (sibling), Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), and Mary of Joseph's sister-in-law, Mary of Cleophas/Clopas, and thus Jesus's brothers, as in "kinsmen," which lineage shows were cousins. Do you consider them not credible on this matter?

Edits:
Removed a "that."

 

[Accurist]

I am wondering if you cut the definition down to support your false hypothesis.

I didn't need to manipulate a definition. See for yourself by clicking the word "ἀδελφός" in the following quotes:

ἀδελφός (adelphos; plural adelphoi)
Definitions
Liddell-Scott-Jones

2. kinsman, ib.Ge.13.8, al.;...

ἀδελφός (adelphos; plural adelphoi)
Definitions
Mounce

...near kinsman, or relative;

However, a look at Liddell and Scott’s Greek–English Lexicon shows these entries: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Da%29delfo%2Fs (adelphos, full), http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3Da%29delfo%2Fs (adelphos, concise).

In summary: ... adelphos is ‘a son of the same mother = a brother’.

The following definitions are also from those entries:

ἀδελφός (adelphos; plural adelphoi)

2. kinsman, ib.Ge.13.8, al.;...

ἀδελφός (adelphos; plural adelphoi)

...or generally, a near kinsman

As shown, one of the definitions of the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) is "kinsman" because it's been used to refer to a kinsman, e.g., uncle, nephew, cousin, etc., in Gen. 13:8;14:14;29:15, 1 Chr. 23:22, etc. For this reason, any Lexicons that don't include this definition are in error.

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "Additionally, do you agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same?"

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "'εἱστήκεισαν δὲ παρὰ τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἡ μήτηρ αὐτοῦ καὶ ἡ ἀδελφὴ (adelphe) τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ, Μαρία ἡ τοῦ Κλωπᾶ καὶ Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνή' (Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene). (Jn. 19:25)

Now, you said, '...adelphe: 1. a full, own sister 2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion," and thus, according to you, Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas shouldn't be called "sisters" as in anything except siblings or fellow believers. Therefore, why are you calling them sisters-in-law, and why did the NT authors use the word "ἀδελφὴ" (adelphe) which, according to you, cannot be used to describe this type of relationship?'"

Edits:
Added quotes.
Removed verse number 21.
Replaced "...sisters, as in sisters-in-law" with "sisters-in-law."
Replaced double quotation marks with singular quotation marks.

 

[Taken]

You agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same—but you disagree that he and Apostle James of Alphaeus were the same.

Apostle...is simply a "delegate".
Notice of their "position", "authority", "to do" what they were "delegated" to do.

Disciples...are "followers".
Jesus "chose", disciples specific, to follow Him.
Others "chose", to follow, which made "them" disciples.

Jesus..."Appointed" (certain) of His "chosen" Disciples, to be "delegates"...ie. Apostles "to be SENT OUT...travel, preach, teach, inform, other "listening EARS of men" to HEAR, the testimony of the Word of God.

These particular men... SENT OUT, called Apostles of Jesus...inturn, had Disciples, following "them"...and they inturn, were "appointed", "delegated" and "SENT OUT"...to "listening EARS of men"...

AS WELL to consider... Places WHERE men were sent...as Disciples, as Apostles, BY Jesus, or BY other Disciples....were "delegated"..."appointed"...as "apostles" to STAY in a particular place...Continue Following ... GODS WORD... "AND" in the same fashion...."BE" an "apostle"... TEACHING, Preaching, to "ears of men", themselves becoming "disciples" (followers of Jesus' Word)....

NOW...consider, WHO is a brother, WHO is ones brethren...
* All Jews (Tribesmen) are "brethren", by race, regardless of what they believe.
* All (Tribesmen/ Jews) WHO...have continued in BELIEF IN GOD...are "brethren", Spiritually by their Common Belief.
* SOME (Tribesmen/Jews) ARE "brothers", "sisters", "sons" "lawful KINSMEN", by their
genealogical LINE, of their earthly fathers and mothers, SEED. (And history reveals, Hebrews, Tribesmen, WHO remained Faithful to God, OR WERE cut off, because of disbelief).
* All Gentiles are "brethren", by race, regardlessof what they believe.
* All Gentiles are NOT "brothers", ie Lawful KINSMEN, "related", by SEEDS of their fathers and mothers.

JESUS, introduced knowledge, and Revelation of Understanding.....A MYSTERY...
A DIFFERENT "Brotherhood"...
A DIFFERENT "SEED".
A DIFFERENT "relationship" of "BRETHREN"...
THAT IS:...INCLUSIVE, APPLICABLE to ALL of MAN-KIND of thing....men, women, children...
* It matters NOT...Hebrew, Tribesman, Jew, Gentile, gender, young, aged, height, weight, location, rich, poor, high status position, low status position, outwardly beautiful, outwardly homely, Diseased, Healthy....
JESUS, (the True Word of God), OFFERED to ALL of mankind, CHRIST, (the SEED OF GOD)
AND PROMISED, the GIVING of CHRIST, (the SEED of GOD)....TO ANY man-kind of of living thing....THAT heartfully chooses TO RECEIVE, (Gods SEED). [/B]
* ANY mankind of thing...THAT DOES SO, choose to and DOES, RECEIVE Gods SEED....are yet a DIFFERENT "KIND" of "BRETHREN".
* THEY (man, woman, child) ARE "Brethren"..
"IN CHRIST".

NAMES -
Names of people IN Scripture, (and IN the World) ...are specific to individuals...but yet are the same "names".
DESCRIPTIONS -
Same applies. Leaders/followers. Employers/Employess. OUTSIDE of Christ, INSIDE of Christ.

* Jesus' Chosen Disciples:
1) Simon Barjona; aka Simon Peter
...(son of Jona)

2) Andrew Barjona
...(son of Jona)

3) John Boaneges
...(son of Zebedee)

4) James (the elder) Boaneges
...(son of Zebedee)

5) Nathanael Bartmew
...(son of Talmar, brother-in-law of king David)

6) Matthew Levi (skilled in reading & writing), Pharisee, (educated in Gods Law).
...( son of Alpheus)

7) James (the younger)
...( son of Alpheus, Clophas, (Jesus' uncle) and James, (Jesus cousin.)

8) Judas (Hebrew) Levveus (Greek) Thaddeus (sir name).
...(son of Alpheus, aka Clopas, (Jesus' uncle) and Judas, (Jesus' cousin).

9) Philip
...(from Bethsaida, from same place as AS, Simon Peter and Andrew.)

10) Thomas (Hebrew name) Didymus (Greek name)...known for doubting, until he could see evidence.

11) Simon the Zealot

12) Judas Iscariot
...(follower, Treasury keeper, betrayer)


* All of these men "same"; race, brethren, Jews
* Some of these men "kinsmen"; brothers, same father, and or same mother.
* All of these men WERE "WITH" Jesus.
* All of these men "tasted" partook, of Blessings of the Holy spirit, "WITH" them.
* 11 of these men "brethren"; "WITH" and "IN" Christ...Received Salvation, forever "WITHIN" Christ.
* 1 of these men...deflected...rejected being "WITH" Christ, rejected partaking of the Holy Spirit "WITH" him, rejected Receiving the Holy Spirit "IN" him. LOST SALVATION that was PAID for for him, he was offered, but did not take.
Still a "brethren" Jew.
No longer a "brethren" with Christ.
Never a "brethren" IN Christ.
Physically Died, IN his unforgiven sin.
(Soul not saved, spirit not quickened).

None of these are JAMES, Jesus' lawful "sibling".

That James, is son of Joseph, of the House of David. First (like all humans), an unbeliever.
Was not chosen by Jesus as a Disciple, or one of Jesus' Apostles.
(As well many others, became following disciples and teaching, preaching apostles).
This JAMES came into belief, faith, held a high position in church administration, deacon, and continual teaching, preaching, exalting Christ Jesus.
Book of James - attributed to this JAMES...
Lawful "Sibling" of Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I didn't need to manipulate a definition. See for yourself by clicking the word "ἀδελφός" in the following quotes:






The following definitions are also from those entries:




As shown, one of the definitions of the word "ἀδελφός" (adelphos) is "kinsman" because it's been used to refer to a kinsman, e.g., sibling, uncle, nephew, cousin, etc., in Gen. 13:8;16:16;29:15, 1 Chr. 23:21–22, etc. For this reason, any Lexicons that don't include this definition are in error.

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "Additionally, do you agree that "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and "James" called "apostle" and "the brother of the Lord" in Gal. 1:19 were the same?"

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "Now, you said, "...adelphe: 1. a full, own sister 2. one connected by the tie of the Christian religion," and thus, according to you, Mary of Joseph and Mary of Cleophas/Clopas shouldn't be called "sisters" as in anything except siblings or fellow believers. Therefore, why are you calling them sisters, as in sisters-in-law, and why did the NT authors use the word "ἀδελφὴ" (adelphe) which, according to you, cannot be used to describe this type of relationship?"

Edits:
Added quotes.

Misquoting me is the mark of a failed argument.

I said Mary of Cleophas was Mary of Joseph's sister in law. As there was no word for "in-law" sister is correct. But the NT does not allow a cousin to be called adelphos unless it is referring them as of the same faith or nationality (both are Jewish)

Taking adelphos when used in translating "ach" and making a doctrine out of that is foolish to the maximum. The writers of the septuigant did not have words available to them like "cousin" "nephew" etrc. They chose the best word available going from one language to another. But Lot and Abram were "brethren" in the sense they were tribally related as fits with the definition used by the experts for Greek alone. ONCE AGAIN, Mounce et. al. are defining a word from one language to define a word from another language. And you cannot even prove that it was intended as simply a relative.

all of your arguments are OT arguments in going from Hebrew to Greek and without even kn owing if they were simply talking about all being Jews or from the sametribal origin

Mounce has serious problems so using him diminishes your arguments further.

near kinsmen would be family, kinsmen may include cousins nephews etc. when adelphos is used to translate from Hebrew, for the reasons given you many times.

But we do know in Jesus day the Koine or common Greek had perfectly good words to describe cousins, nephews, nieces aunts uncles etc. God would not be so clumsy as to use a word that in any greek lexicon, dictionary or concordance says as far as blood goes only refers to a brother of the same mom or dad.

While you do some good digging, you are still a sloppy researcher, for you overlook major points that destroy your argument. Or maybe you just refuse to believe those arguments because while very true, they do destroy your arguments.

 

[Accurist]

Apostle...is simply a "delegate".
Notice of their "position", "authority", "to do" what they were "delegated" to do.

Disciples...are "followers".
Jesus "chose", disciples specific, to follow Him.
Others "chose", to follow, which made "them" disciples.

Jesus..."Appointed" (certain) of His "chosen" Disciples, to be "delegates"...ie. Apostles "to be SENT OUT...travel, preach, teach, inform, other "listening EARS of men" to HEAR, the testimony of the Word of God.

These particular men... SENT OUT, called Apostles of Jesus...inturn, had Disciples, following "them"...and they inturn, were "appointed", "delegated" and "SENT OUT"...to "listening EARS of men"...

AS WELL to consider... Places WHERE men were sent...as Disciples, as Apostles, BY Jesus, or BY other Disciples....were "delegated"..."appointed"...as "apostles" to STAY in a particular place...Continue Following ... GODS WORD... "AND" in the same fashion...."BE" an "apostle"... TEACHING, Preaching, to "ears of men", themselves becoming "disciples" (followers of Jesus' Word)....

NOW...consider, WHO is a brother, WHO is ones brethren...
* All Jews (Tribesmen) are "brethren", by race, regardless of what they believe.
* All (Tribesmen/ Jews) WHO...have continued in BELIEF IN GOD...are "brethren", Spiritually by their Common Belief.
* SOME (Tribesmen/Jews) ARE "brothers", "sisters", "sons" "lawful KINSMEN", by their
genealogical LINE, of their earthly fathers and mothers, SEED. (And history reveals, Hebrews, Tribesmen, WHO remained Faithful to God, OR WERE cut off, because of disbelief).
* All Gentiles are "brethren", by race, regardlessof what they believe.
* All Gentiles are NOT "brothers", ie Lawful KINSMEN, "related", by SEEDS of their fathers and mothers.

JESUS, introduced knowledge, and Revelation of Understanding.....A MYSTERY...
A DIFFERENT "Brotherhood"...
A DIFFERENT "SEED".
A DIFFERENT "relationship" of "BRETHREN"...
THAT IS:...INCLUSIVE, APPLICABLE to ALL of MAN-KIND of thing....men, women, children...
* It matters NOT...Hebrew, Tribesman, Jew, Gentile, gender, young, aged, height, weight, location, rich, poor, high status position, low status position, outwardly beautiful, outwardly homely, Diseased, Healthy....
JESUS, (the True Word of God), OFFERED to ALL of mankind, CHRIST, (the SEED OF GOD)
AND PROMISED, the GIVING of CHRIST, (the SEED of GOD)....TO ANY man-kind of of living thing....THAT heartfully chooses TO RECEIVE, (Gods SEED). [/B]
* ANY mankind of thing...THAT DOES SO, choose to and DOES, RECEIVE Gods SEED....are yet a DIFFERENT "KIND" of "BRETHREN".
* THEY (man, woman, child) ARE "Brethren"..
"IN CHRIST".

NAMES -
Names of people IN Scripture, (and IN the World) ...are specific to individuals...but yet are the same "names".
DESCRIPTIONS -
Same applies. Leaders/followers. Employers/Employess. OUTSIDE of Christ, INSIDE of Christ.

* Jesus' Chosen Disciples:
1) Simon Barjona; aka Simon Peter
...(son of Jona)

2) Andrew Barjona
...(son of Jona)

3) John Boaneges
...(son of Zebedee)

4) James (the elder) Boaneges
...(son of Zebedee)

5) Nathanael Bartmew
...(son of Talmar, brother-in-law of king David)

6) Matthew Levi (skilled in reading & writing), Pharisee, (educated in Gods Law).
...( son of Alpheus)

7) James (the younger)
...( son of Alpheus, Clophas, (Jesus' uncle) and James, (Jesus cousin.)

8) Judas (Hebrew) Levveus (Greek) Thaddeus (sir name).
...(son of Alpheus, aka Clopas, (Jesus' uncle) and Judas, (Jesus' cousin).

9) Philip
...(from Bethsaida, from same place as AS, Simon Peter and Andrew.)

10) Thomas (Hebrew name) Didymus (Greek name)...known for doubting, until he could see evidence.

11) Simon the Zealot

12) Judas Iscariot
...(follower, Treasury keeper, betrayer)


* All of these men "same"; race, brethren, Jews
* Some of these men "kinsmen"; brothers, same father, and or same mother.
* All of these men WERE "WITH" Jesus.
* All of these men "tasted" partook, of Blessings of the Holy spirit, "WITH" them.
* 11 of these men "brethren"; "WITH" and "IN" Christ...Received Salvation, forever "WITHIN" Christ.
* 1 of these men...deflected...rejected being "WITH" Christ, rejected partaking of the Holy Spirit "WITH" him, rejected Receiving the Holy Spirit "IN" him. LOST SALVATION that was PAID for for him, he was offered, but did not take.
Still a "brethren" Jew.
No longer a "brethren" with Christ.
Never a "brethren" IN Christ.
Physically Died, IN his unforgiven sin.
(Soul not saved, spirit not quickened).

None of these are JAMES, Jesus' lawful "sibling".

That James, is son of Joseph, of the House of David. First (like all humans), an unbeliever.
Was not chosen by Jesus as a Disciple, or one of Jesus' Apostles.
(As well many others, became following disciples and teaching, preaching apostles).
This JAMES came into belief, faith, held a high position in church administration, deacon, and continual teaching, preaching, exalting Christ Jesus.
Book of James - attributed to this JAMES...
Lawful "Sibling" of Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "According to the early Christians quoted in the OP, (i) "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, "James the brother of the Lord," "Apostle James of Alphaeus," "James the Bishop of Jerusalem," "James the Less," "James the Just," and the author of the Epistle of James were the same, and (ii) he, Simon, Joseph, and Jude (Judas) were sons of Joseph's brother (sibling), Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), and Mary of Joseph's sister-in-law, Mary of Cleophas/Clopas, and thus Jesus's brothers, as in "kinsmen," which lineage shows were cousins. Do you consider them not credible on this matter?"