Who Will The Judas Of The Elect (man Child) Be?

[whirlwind]

The events of the past are examples for us in the end of days. Christ Himself was our greatest example of what will be.Matthew 26:20-22 Now when even was come, He sat down with the twelve. And as they did eat, He said, "Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray Me." And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto Him, "Lord, is it I?"Judas also asked this…knowing he was the culprit for he had already consulted with the chief priests and asked…

26:15-16 What will ye give me, and I will deliver Him unto you?" And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray Him.​

26:23-24 And He answered and said, "He that dippeth his hand with Me in the dish, the same shall betray Me. The Son of man goeth as it is written of Him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born."

So, we see from the example that whoever the Judas of the end times is…will be among us, one of us…a believer. As he sold Christ so will the Judas of end times, or the group he is symbolic of, sell the elect.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.​

Will that person/group have full understanding of what they are doing? Will they willingly turn the elect over to Satan for money or whatever they wish to achieve? Or will they, "know not what they do?" Remember, even though Judas sold Him, he also said….

Mark 14:44 And he that betrayed Him had given them a token, saying, "Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is He; take Him, and lead Him away safely."​

Notice that the above Scripture is 1444…I so often see those numbers affiliated with the elect. I believe they are the mark of the elect, a sign He shares with us.Who will the Judas be? Will they feel righteous when they do this, believing they do the work of God? As Christ said, "The Son of man goeth as it is written of Him," just as it is written of the man child…it will happen but I wonder who will fill that prophesied role. My personal feeling is...in their minds they will believe they are doing the right thing but they are blind to His truth.

 

[whirlwind]

The question asked in this thread is....who will the Judas of end times be? Who was Judas a type for? The man child will follow the example of Christ and in doing so...will be turned in! It is written.Christ, speaking to His disciples....and we are also His disciples so this message is for us, tells us, if we are the very elect, the man child, who our Judas will be.Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

Scourge is to quarrel and dispute while a council is a group of like minded people. Notice...this takes place in groups and well as places of worship. Would it include Christian forums? Yes, it would, yes it does!​

10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

Governors are leaders as well as rulers so they are not necessarily politically appointed as we think of our State Governors. In this instance they could be leaders of church organizations, leaders of civic groups, leaders of groups of folks, like the Pharisees, that believe you teach against His Word.​

10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

That hour is the "hour of temptation" also known as the great tribulation. It is Satan's time when he will be here pretending to be our Savior. A time of great deception.​

10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father Which speaketh in you.

Should you premeditate what you are going to speak or should you not allow the Holy Spirit to speak through you....you then commit the one unforgivable sin!​

10:21 And THE BROTHER SHALL DELIVER UP THE BROTHER TO DEATH AND THE FATHER THE CHILD: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

Death is one of Satan's many names. So, the elect will be put to death, or brought before Satan and/or his workers. Be prepared. If we are among these servants we must understand what will be and what to do.​

10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Hated because they/we will teach against what the others believe to be true...that the fake christ on earth at that time is...the fake. But, if we endure to the very end...the seventh trump when He, the true Christ arrives, then...we shall be saved.​

The two witnesses, we now see, are not two literal entities for this event will occur in many places. We see who the Judas will be...our brother, our father, our children, our friends and family. Why? Because they will be among the deceived and out of love for us want us to be saved as they are. They won't realize they are saved to the wrong Christ...it will be the anti christ, the instead of christ, the great deceiver promising to love them and rapture them away before the wrath is spilled. They will just have to "make an agreement" with him to receive his promise...our example of this promise of rapture from a type of Satan, the king of Assyria.....

11 Kings 18:31 Hearken not to Hezekiah:' for thus saith the king of Assyria, 'Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me, and then eat ye every man of his own vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his cistern: Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of oil olive and of honey, that ye may live, and not die: and hearken not unto Hezekiah, when he persuadeth you, saying, 'The Lord will deliver us."18:36 But the people held their peace, and answered him not a word: for the king's commandment was, saying, "Answer him not."​

As the king of Assyria was a type for Satan/anti christ, as the offer to keep them from death and to take them to the promised land was a type of the rapture offer...king Hezekiah is a type of the man child....the two witnesses. The Lord will deliver us and we must wait for the true Savior

 

[Christina]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!! what a great post whirlwind you have enlightened me to some truths I had missed thank you and God Bless

 

[whirlwind]

QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 12 2009, 01:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72421
Wow!!!!!!!!!!! what a great post whirlwind you have enlightened me to some truths I had missed thank you and God Bless
Thank you Christina. It is odd how we can read a verse and see certain things then read it again...and see something else. It's all part of the feeding us meat in due season. It just happened to me. I reread the post and noticed something new in what I wrote....

10:21 And THE BROTHER SHALL DELIVER UP THE BROTHER TO DEATH AND THE FATHER THE CHILD: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.​

I don't think that scripture is speaking only of earthly fathers but is also about Our Father. He chooses which of His children are delivered at that time. He places that chosen one before death. He knows that soul will stand.This is the reason I so love this forum and others like it. It is a place we can gather and discuss His Word. Each of us may approach the Word in a different way and because of that there is so much wisdom to be gained.

Malachi 3:16-17 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name. And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son tht serveth him.​

So, thank you for the God bless on this day my sparkling jewel of a friend.

 

[watchman]

Are you talking about the man child in Revelation 12? Because that is speaking of Jesus Christ Himself.

 

[whirlwind]

QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 12 2009, 09:11 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72437
Are you talking about the man child in Revelation 12? Because that is speaking of Jesus Christ Himself.
Christ is The Man Child, The Firstfruit but His very elect are the man child (ren), the firstfruits of the end of this age. They are those that ....Revelation 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father. And I will give him the morning star.

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (whirlwind @ Apr 13 2009, 07:25 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72455
Christ is The Man Child, The Firstfruit but His very elect are the man child (ren), the firstfruits of the end of this age. They are those that ....Revelation 2:26-28 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father. And I will give him the morning star.
I disagree

 

[whirlwind]

QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 13 2009, 11:22 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72456
I disagree

That's okay...lots of folks do.

The man child is just another name for the very elect. Those that will be priests...

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.​

​

I'm about to post a study concerning them. If you are interested you might take a look when you have some time.

 

[Jordan]

Nice posts Whirlwind, but... I just still disagree about the "two witnesses" as being two groups... I know you said or in post #2, but no elects will be put to death because scriptures say that Satan is not allowed to touch the elect, but only those who doesn't have the seal. (Revelation 9:4,5,10) And people shall seek death, but will never find it. And desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

 

[watchman]

The man child in Revelation 12 is Jesus Christ Himself, and not representative of anyone or anything else.QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 13 2009, 03:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72465
Nice posts Whirlwind, but... I just still disagree about the "two witnesses" as being two groups... I know you said or in post #2, but no elects will be put to death because scriptures say that Satan is not allowed to touch the elect, but only those who doesn't have the seal. (Revelation 9:4,5,10) And people shall seek death, but will never find it. And desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Many Christians will be martyred during the tribulation. Do you think there is a difference between christians and the elect?

 

[Jordan]

QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 13 2009, 02:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72469
QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 13 2009, 02:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72465
Nice posts Whirlwind, but... I just still disagree about the "two witnesses" as being two groups... I know you said or in post #2, but no elects will be put to death because scriptures say that Satan is not allowed to touch the elect, but only those who doesn't have the seal. (Revelation 9:4,5,10) And people shall seek death, but will never find it. And desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
...Many Christians will be martyred during the tribulation. Do you think there is a difference between christians and the elect?Revelation 9:6

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Jordan @ Apr 13 2009, 03:49 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72473
...Many Christians will be martyred during the tribulation. Do you think there is a difference between christians and the elect?Revelation 9:6
Revelation 6:9, 12:17, 13:7, 20:4. Because the scorpion like demons were not aloud to hurt the elect does not change the fact that the anti christ will kill many. You cannot take one scripture out of context and then ignore the rest of what is taught in scripture.

 

[Christina]

Yes there is a difference between the Elect and Believers not all believers are of the Elect ...So your point is mute ...

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 13 2009, 04:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72478
Yes there is a difference between the Elect and Believers not all believers are of the Elect ...So your point is mute ...
Actually all true believer are the elect, so you are wrong and my point is unmuted.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 13 2009, 12:28 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72469
The man child in Revelation 12 is Jesus Christ Himself, and not representative of anyone or anything else.Many Christians will be martyred during the tribulation. Do you think there is a difference between christians and the elect?
Actully that wasnt your question the answer to your question is as I said there is a differnce between the Elect and Christians

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 13 2009, 04:45 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72481
Actully that wasnt your question the answer to your question is as I said there is a differnce between the Elect and Christians
And the answer is no. All true believers are Christians and all true believers are the elect. Now is all people who claim to be christians christian? No, but the answer to my question are the Christians/elect/saints in Revelation all one and the same and the answer is yes.

 

[whirlwind]

QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 13 2009, 03:03 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72476
Revelation 6:9, 12:17, 13:7, 20:4. Because the scorpion like demons were not aloud to hurt the elect does not change the fact that the anti christ will kill many. You cannot take one scripture out of context and then ignore the rest of what is taught in scripture.
I don't believe Scripture points to the anti christ killing many at all...actually it is few. What the scorpions and locust do is spiritual in nature. There are the elect, and of the elect there are the very elect. There are the two witnesses, which are the olive trees and the candlesticks....lots of folks and the two prophets and the Zadok, and the man child, and the...well, you get the picture. I'm trying to sort through it but I know for certain that the two witnesses are many. We are His witnesses. Some of those will be killed but I believe that those chosen for that task are what the Bible refers to as the "man child." From the types and examples given in many places I am leaning toward those that are killed being shown as the seventy palm trees of [Numbers 33:9]...but I'm not certain. Is that a literal number or, as seven means spiritual perfection, is it the number He feels is the perfect number? Lots to consider but...He is showing me a little at a time.We are referred to as trees..the fig, the olive, etc. All have different meanings and different purposes. The palm trees hold a special place in prophecy.

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (whirlwind @ Apr 13 2009, 06:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72486
I don't believe Scripture points to the anti christ killing many at all...actually it is few. What the scorpions and locust do is spiritual in nature. There are the elect, and of the elect there are the very elect. There are the two witnesses, which are the olive trees and the candlesticks....lots of folks and the two prophets and the Zadok, and the man child, and the...well, you get the picture. I'm trying to sort through it but I know for certain that the two witnesses are many. We are His witnesses. Some of those will be killed but I believe that those chosen for that task are what the Bible refers to as the "man child." From the types and examples given in many places I am leaning toward those that are killed being shown as the seventy palm trees of [Numbers 33:9]...but I'm not certain. Is that a literal number or, as seven means spiritual perfection, is it the number He feels is the perfect number? Lots to consider but...He is showing me a little at a time.We are referred to as trees..the fig, the olive, etc. All have different meanings and different purposes. The palm trees hold a special place in prophecy.
The Bible tells us that the number that will be kiiled is a number beyond numbering.Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;Who are these that were given white robes?Revelation 713 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And how did they come out of the great tribulation?Revelation 69 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Soooo, according to whirlwind very few saints will be killed at the hands of the anti christ, but according to scripture a number too great to be counted will be killed.

 

[Christina]

QUOTE (watchman @ Apr 13 2009, 04:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72490
The Bible tells us that the number that will be kiiled is a number beyond numbering.Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;Who are these that were given white robes?Revelation 713 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And how did they come out of the great tribulation?Revelation 69 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Soooo, according to whirlwind very few saints will be killed at the hands of the anti christ, but according to scripture a number too great to be counted will be killed.
We are clearly talking after the tribulation is past Christ has returned and everyone is in a spirit body worshipping the Lord these are NOT those who were martyred they are everyone .... There is no more flesh Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir [My Lord], thou knowest. and he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."In Rev. 6 theses are the saints that are already under the alter that have been martyred throughout history the tribulation period is just getting ready to start in the 5th/6th trump. So if it hasnt started these Saints could not have been killed during it ..Satan is coming to win souls away from Christ not kill everyone ... Im sure there will be deaths but I think most will be from the natural disaters

 

[watchman]

QUOTE (Christina @ Apr 13 2009, 08:41 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=72492
We are clearly talking after the tribulation is past Christ has returned and everyone is in a spirit body worshipping the Lord these are NOT those who were martyred they are everyone .... There is no more flesh Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir [My Lord], thou knowest. and he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."In Rev. 6 theses are the saints that are already under the alter that have been martyred throughout history the tribulation period is just getting ready to start in the 5th/6th trump. So if it hasnt started these Saints could not have been killed during it ..Satan is coming to win souls away from hrist not kill everyone ... Im sure there will be deaths but I think most will be from the natural disaters
Now the plagues upon the wicked the righteous will bbe safe from it is the wrath of man and of satan that we will have to endure.