Why are Christians leaving their churches?

[shepherdsword]

That's not what Jesus said... He said we would know them by their fruits

Are you fruity?

Technically Jesus said you will know false TEACHERS by their fruit. Your extrapolation to young believers contradicts other scriptures. Namely "Let the tares grow with the wheat less you uproot the wheat also" It's obvious there are times when you can't tell a believer by a superficial observation.

 

[Kokyu]

Sadly, the end of giving up on one's faith results in them spending eternity in hell.

Yes, this is the most awful thing that can happen to a person. But examining their reasons for throwing off their "faith" (I use scare quotes very purposefully here) is helpful in what way? All that the examples you gave demonstrate is the poor thinking and ignorance prompting their apostasy and the absence of a real, concrete, life-changing, personal experience of God in their "Christian" life.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Technically Jesus said you will know false TEACHERS by their fruit

That's pretty funny and is in fact false doctrine.

If you think those claiming to be Christians can have the rotten fruit that comes from following the devil and it's all good, you got another thing coming.

Yes, this is the most awful thing that can happen to a person. But examining their reasons for throwing off their "faith" (I use scare quotes very purposefully here) is helpful in what way? All that the examples you gave demonstrate is the poor thinking and ignorance prompting their apostasy and the absence of a real, concrete, life-changing, personal experience of God in their "Christian" life.

In other words telling people they should follow the Lord is causing them to fall away from the Lord.

This is what satan is telling people to trick them in to NOT telling people they should walk with the Lord and not live in sin.

Hang in their sport, maybe you'll get it someday

They fell away because they desired to please themselves walking after the flesh and the pleasures of this world more than they love the Lord... and so they are once again of their father the devil loving sin more than Jesus

 

[shepherdsword]

That's pretty funny and is in fact false doctrine.

If you think those claiming to be Christians can have the rotten fruit that comes from following the devil and it's all good, you got another thing coming.

Mt 7:15-16 Beware of "false prophets:, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know "them" by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

You know what a "ravening wolf is don't you? It's pretty much what you are doing now. Maybe you should check your own fruit. You are demonstrating the wrong type of wisdom. Try this on before condemning a struggling young believer who is too immature to produce fruit:

Jas 3:14-18 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[mailmandan]

Mt 7:15-16 Beware of "false prophets:, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know "them" by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

You know what a "ravening wolf is don't you? It's pretty much what you are doing now. Maybe you should check your own fruit. You are demonstrating the wrong type of wisdom. Try this on before condemning a struggling young believer who is too immature to produce fruit:

Jas 3:14-18 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

The apostle Paul also warned us about ravening/savage wolves. Acts 20:28 - Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Maybe you should check your own fruit

According to you this only applies to those in the ministry so no need

You should at least learn to be consistent when teaching falsely

It's hilariously wrong to take things out of context as you just did to claim it does not apply to all men...

Matthew 7:13-27
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so EVERY good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
EVERY tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not EVERY one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And EVERY one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

So as the Lord was saying.... producing bad fruit is not only how we know false teachers, it's also how we know false brethren

Try this on before condemning a struggling young believer who is too immature to produce fruit

How you are able to grow in the Lord and quit being a struggling young believer who is too immature to produce fruit

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The apostle Paul warned us about ravening/savage wolves. Acts 20:28 - Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

Yep this is WHY people should avoid the OSAS teachers because they are wolves.

 

[Runningman]

This is interesting.. Christians Tell Why They Are No Longer Religious:

'#1 Southern Baptist​

Ever wondered why some folks who used to be really into Christianity are now saying “no thanks” to the whole faith thing? Well, we found a bunch of them on social media sharing their stories. From growing up with certain beliefs to discovering things that didn’t quite add up, these former Christians have some interesting reasons for losing their faith. Let’s dive into their tales and see what changed their minds.

“Short answer: grew up Southern Baptist. When I started getting to the age where I could think critically about things, I just started noticing some inconsistencies. Specifically, I was told that people who believed in other religions would go to hell because they followed the “wrong” religion. What?? When religion is based a lot on where you are born, I just could not truly believe that people would be sent to hell for being born in the “wrong” country.”

This user’s critical reflection on his Southern Baptist upbringing struck a chord, particularly when confronted with the notion that people of different religions could face damnation solely based on their place of birth. The recognition that entire populations could be condemned for circumstances beyond their control raised questions about the fairness and logic of such a religious perspective, ultimately leading to a reconsideration of the user’s faith journey.

#2 Mythology Class in College​

“Taking a mythology class in college and realizing all the different religions had similar origin stories of how earth and man were created and evolved, but the details differed based on the environment the people lived in and how far along they were technologically. Anything science couldn’t explain was the will of a higher power.

Not saying higher powers COULDN’T exist, just realized people are killing each other because theirs is the ‘right God’, but the people don’t realize that for all intents and purposes, they are all following the similar lessons/stories.”

In a broader context, the user’s revelation in their mythology class illuminated the commonality among diverse religions. As they explored various mythologies, they discerned parallels in the stories of Earth’s creation and human evolution. The realization that different cultures, despite varied details, shared fundamental narratives about higher powers and unexplained phenomena prompted a reconsideration of religious exclusivity.

#3 Being Told Not to Question Faith​

“Being told to not question my faith made me lose my faith. If I cannot question what I believe in to better understand it, then it wasn’t worth believing in it in the first place. Or they are hiding something they don’t want me to find out, which makes me even more skeptical of it.”

For this user, the very act of questioning was essential for a deeper understanding of his beliefs. When this exploration was stifled, it raised doubts about the authenticity and solidity of the faith. The suppression of questions created a perception that there might be hidden aspects or inconsistencies that authorities sought to conceal. This lack of transparency and the inability to engage in an open dialogue eroded the user’s confidence in the faith, as genuine belief, for them, required a foundation built on inquiry and understanding.

#4 Unfulfilled Prayers​

“I was in a hard time for me and I started praying, attending catholic activities and doing lots of other things like these. I wasn’t feeling better. Years after I gave up doing these things and started taking care of me by myself and now I’m happy. So the faith gradually went away. I’m not fully an atheist though, I may be an agnostic but I’m not sure.”

In this instance, the user’s experience revolves around a personal struggle where traditional religious practices did not provide the expected relief or improvement. The subsequent shift towards self-care and the positive outcome generated skepticism about the effectiveness of religious rituals. The realization that personal agency and self-care contributed more significantly to their well-being than religious practices prompted a reevaluation of faith......https://milliondollarsense.com/christianity-to-atheism

Interesting post. What I have seen is that sometimes are look for a reason to leave Christianity or the church, but completely converting to atheism seems more rare, though not unheard of. I am not sure there is a way to quantify that accurately, but I speculate if someone is already a theist then they will likely convert to a different religion or perhaps a different sect of Christianity if they disagree with their particular denomination.

 

[Kokyu]

In other words telling people they should follow the Lord is causing them to fall away from the Lord.

I don't understand how you got this from what I wrote...

This is what satan is telling people to trick them in to NOT telling people they should walk with the Lord and not live in sin.

??? Again, I don't see how this responds to what I pointed out. I've not suggested that people shouldn't walk with the Lord and forsake sin.

Hang in their sport, maybe you'll get it someday

Uh...okay...

They fell away because they desired to please themselves walking after the flesh and the pleasures of this world more than they love the Lord... and so they are once again of their father the devil loving sin more than Jesus

Is this what they said was the cause of their departure from the faith? These things you describe here were likely factors, too, but if they had known God truly and were enjoying Him daily, the lure of the flesh and the world would not have had the power to eject them from the faith.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Is this what they said was the cause of their departure from the faith? These things you describe here were likely factors, too, but if they had known God truly and were enjoying Him daily, the lure of the flesh and the world would not have had the power to eject them from the faith.

None the less, telling people they must turn from their sin and live for the Lord is not causing them to fall away.
This is the Truth and it must be told.

People fall away because they love their sin more than they love the Lord.

 

[Kokyu]

None the less, telling people they must turn from their sin and live for the Lord is not causing them to fall away.
This is the Truth and it must be told.

There is a place for urging folks to turn from their sin and live for God, but God says in His word that these things arise from loving Him with all of one's being. This is His First and Greatest Commandment, actually (Matt. 22:36-38) and is where living for the Lord begins. Maybe, then, you ought to urge the lost (and those of them pretending to be Christians) to repent and turn to God because He loves them (1 Jn. 4:16-19), because He offers to them the Greatest Possible Thing in all of Creation, which is Himself.

People fall away because they love their sin more than they love the Lord.

Ultimately, yes. And they are so incorrigibly self-loving that pointing this out will do nothing to change them. God must intervene in their life, enabling them to understand the Gospel, their deep sin, and their need of the Savior (Jn. 6:44; 16:8; 2 Ti. 2:25). So, preach the Gospel, yes, absolutely, but also pray that God will do what only He can do to move unredeemed people to Himself. Such prayer is at least as important as "telling people they must turn from their sin and live for the Lord."

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Such prayer is at least as important as "telling people they must turn from their sin and live for the Lord."

IF... one knows how to pray correctly.


Praying for the Lost
Use these scriptures to make prayers to pray over those that are lost.

1) Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."

We should bind the devil from working in their lives, and take authority over the enemy. In Luke 10:19 Jesus said "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power (authority) of the enemy". Jesus has given us authority to take authority over the enemy. We must exercise our authority by speaking out these scriptures against the enemy. God's Word MUST be declared over them in faith continually, and consistently if you ever expect to see the person(s) you're praying for come to Jesus.


2) Matthew 16:19
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Declare (out loud) in faith that you are binding the devil's ability to work in their lives, and declare (out loud) in faith that the person you are praying for is loosed from the control of the devil and all carnal influences of darkness in the world.


3) Mark 16:17
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues".

Demand (out loud) in faith that you are casting the devil out of their life! Jesus has given us power and authority to do this, and He will see to it that this is carried out if we don't give up and quit standing on this promise.


4) 2 Corinthians 10:4,5
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Speaking God's Word (promises of freedom) over someone's life is mighty through God for getting the results of pulling down strongholds (enemy activity) in people's lives.


5) Luke 10:2
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth laborers into his harvest. (Also see: Matthew 9:38)

Declare (out loud) in faith that laborers (witnesses of the Gospel) are continually coming into their lives to declare the goodness of Jesus and His desire to set them free from darkness.


6) 2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Declare (out loud) in faith that their minds are no longer darkened and the light of the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ is now shining on them, and in their minds (understanding, vision, ability to see what is right)


7) Ephesians 1:17,18
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.

Declare (outloud) in faith that the eyes of their understanding (their mind, vision, ability to see) are now opened and declare that they have the ability to see what is right.


8) Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Declare (out loud) in faith that God's angels have already been sent forth to minister salvation (deliverance, freedom) to the person you're praying for by bringing witnesses of the Gospel to them, by protecting them from destruction, and by ministering thoughts of the promises in God's Word to their thoughts.


9) 2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

When attempting to reach the lost, they are the ones who have to make the decision to turn away from darkness and become converted to the Kingdom of God thru Jesus Christ... we have to be gentle in our attempt to teach them the truth and we have to be patient (consistent)...and in faith ask the Lord to give them the vision (hope) needed to see that they need to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Savior and as Lord.


*This is not an exhausted list, but it's a good start

 

[mailmandan]

Yep this is WHY people should avoid the OSAS teachers because they are wolves. View attachment 63458

That judgment call is well above your paygrade. Not everyone in the OSAS camp holds to your extreme, radical view of OSAS.

Yep this is WHY people should avoid the OSAS teachers because they are wolves. View attachment 63458

Don't confuse your extreme, radical view of OSAS -- ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness/license to sin, with those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ/preservation of the saints.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

That judgment call is well above your paygrade.

I'm fellow shipping with the Most High God and as a joint heir with Him I have the ability to call out the false doctrine the OSAS peoples love so much and hold dear.

God's Word instructs believers to call out and correct false doctrine. Sorry to hear you are on the wrong side of eternity.

OSAS -- ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness/license to sin, with those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ/preservation of the saints.

That's what the OSAS peoples do, they turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness/license to sin and then claim they are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ/preservation of the saints while teaching their fake gospel and their fake jesus

Hang in their bud, maybe you'll get it someday!

 

[mailmandan]

I'm fellow shipping with the Most High God and as a joint heir with Him I have the ability to call out the false doctrine the OSAS peoples love so much and hold dear.

God's Word instructs believers to call out and correct false doctrine. Sorry to hear you are on the wrong side of eternity.

That's what the OSAS peoples do, they turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness/license to sin and then claim they are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ/preservation of the saints while teaching their fake gospel and their fake jesus

Hang in their bud, maybe you'll get it someday! View attachment 63496

You are deceived and you have a strange idea of fellowshipping with the Most High. I'm yet to see once ounce of love in any of your posts. (1 John 4:7-8) By judging me as condemned along with ALL Christians who hold to eternal security of the believer makes you an unrighteous judge and a false accuser of the brethren. You are unqualified to infallibly judge the hearts of mankind.

Now, speaking of the gospel, you never did answer my question from post #180.
What do YOU believe the gospel IS and also what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel?

 

[Kokyu]

IF... one knows how to pray correctly.


Praying for the Lost
Use these scriptures to make prayers to pray over those that are lost.

1) Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."

We should bind the devil from working in their lives, and take authority over the enemy. In Luke 10:19 Jesus said "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power (authority) of the enemy". Jesus has given us authority to take authority over the enemy. We must exercise our authority by speaking out these scriptures against the enemy. God's Word MUST be declared over them in faith continually, and consistently if you ever expect to see the person(s) you're praying for come to Jesus.

The proof-text above doesn't instruct anyone to bind the devil from working in peoples' lives. Jesus was just stating a simple and obvious fact that, if you want to rob a strong man, you've got to incapacitate him first. How is this instruction about prayer? It just isn't. Instead, Jesus was indicating to the Pharisees that his having freed the demon-possessed man from the clutches of the demonic showed he had overcome the demonic "strong man" and was not, therefore, acting from the power of the demonic, as they claimed he was. So, I don't see any prescription whatever in this instance in Matthew 12 concerning devil-binding prayer.

To whom was Jesus speaking in Luke 10:19? To the seventy of Luke 10:1-16 whom he had sent out in pairs to prepare for his coming, saying, "The kingdom of God is come near to you." Did he give this special dispensation of power to all those who followed him? No. Did he say that all of his disciples through all time would have the same dispensation of power? No. Here, too, then, you've extracted a doctrine of prayer that doesn't exist in the proof-text.

2) Matthew 16:19
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Declare (out loud) in faith that you are binding the devil's ability to work in their lives, and declare (out loud) in faith that the person you are praying for is loosed from the control of the devil and all carnal influences of darkness in the world.

Matthew 16:15-19
15 He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

Verse 19 is a statement made by Jesus directly to Peter. Everything he said in the verse was for and about Peter. Though other disciples were present, Jesus doesn't include them in his statement. On what grounds, then, do you take Jesus's words to Peter for yourself? The disciples who were present didn't do this. And nowhere does Jesus even hint that his statement to Peter was instruction on devil-binding prayer.

3) Mark 16:17
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues".

Demand (out loud) in faith that you are casting the devil out of their life! Jesus has given us power and authority to do this, and He will see to it that this is carried out if we don't give up and quit standing on this promise.

Again, there is no specific, clear command concerning prayer in this verse, no injunction about demanding out loud that a demon exit someone's life. Jesus was speaking particularly to his eleven disciples, not to all of his disciples throughout all time. And so, we don't read in Acts of all of the believers in the Early Church exorcising demons willy-nilly and we don't encounter any specific teaching in the rest of the NT to the effect that every born-again person should be casting out demons in the manner you describe above. In Acts 2, there was no demon-binding prayer by Peter before, or as, he preached the Gospel.

Also, there is a growing consensus among Bible scholars that the last half or so of Mark 16 is a later accretion to the text, not part of the original. I'd be reluctant, then, to anchor any dogmatically-held view to this part of the chapter.

As far as I can tell, with all of the proof-texts you've offered you do essentially the same thing as in these ones, extending them far beyond what they actually say. Why is this? Certainly, we ought to pray for the lost but why are you layering on all of these contortions of Scripture to such prayer. Very strange...

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The proof-text above doesn't instruct anyone to bind the devil from working in peoples' lives.

As joint heirs with Christ Jesus.... real Christians are able to bind evil spirits

No need for those who are un-informed to worry themselves with topics like this as they are for those more mature in the faith.

Verse 19 is a statement made by Jesus directly to Peter.

That's what the false teachers keep claiming not knowing those who abide in Christ are joint heir with Him having access to the authority the Lord Jesus Christ has personally.

No where in the NT do we see the other Apostles treating Peter as though he was the top dawg... because he was not.

Again, there is no specific, clear command concerning prayer in this verse, no injunction about demanding out loud that a demon exit someone's life.

That obviously explains WHY some people are entertaining demons in their lives!

The devil tricks people right out of the authority the Lord desires for His people as we are hearing about here

 

[Kokyu]

As joint heirs with Christ Jesus.... real Christians are able to bind evil spirits

No need for those who are un-informed to worry themselves with topics like this as they are for those more mature in the faith.

This is just avoiding defending your statements by being patronizing. Do you really think condescension is a good argument for your assertions?

That's what the false teachers keep claiming not knowing those who abide in Christ are joint heir with Him having access to the authority the Lord Jesus Christ has personally.

No where in the NT do we see the other Apostles treating Peter as though he was the top dawg... because he was not.

??? Have you actually read the immediate context of the verse you offered in which Jesus explicitly and directly addressed Peter (and only Peter)? Your response here just flatly ignores this context in favor of fidelity to a belief for which the verse offers no ground.

Calling those who point out your error "false teachers" is to employ the logical fallacy called "ad hominem." Doing this, attacking the character of the person challenging your view instead of addressing their challenge, is usually what people do when they have no good reply to the challenge. How about you? Do you have more to offer in support of your view than to attack my character?

Also, I don't recall saying that Peter's fellow apostles treated him as "top dawg," only that Jesus was speaking directly and exclusively to Peter in the verse you offered.

That obviously explains WHY some people are entertaining demons in their lives!

The devil tricks people right out of the authority the Lord desires for His people as we are hearing about here

Please understand that I didn't say that Christians have no authority over the demonic, only that the prooftext you offered was being misused, forced to be ground for an assertion to which it had no good relation.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

This is just avoiding defending your statements

OK so you don't know and understand what being a joint heir with Christ Jesus means.

Duly noted.

instead of addressing their challenge

Your challenge was addressed and found to be not of the Lord Jesus, so your challenge was discarded.

I didn't say that Christians have no authority over the demonic

And yet some continue to experience the devil whipping them in the game of life.

That's too bad for them!

 

[Kokyu]

OK so you don't know and understand what being a joint heir with Christ Jesus means.

Duly noted.

??? You're doing here what you've been doing with God's word. You have no good ground to assert this at all. You have only a very tiny piece of what I know and understand of God and His word and yet, though you are entirely ignorant of the vast undisclosed mountain of what I do know and understand, you feel confident making the above assertion. Wow.

Your challenge was addressed and found to be not of the Lord Jesus, so your challenge was discarded.

Okay... I'm sure those reading our exchange will have a different view of what's transpired.

And yet some continue to experience the devil whipping them in the game of life.

That's too bad for them!

??? Yes, some do. You aren't one of them, I hope.