Why are the 7 Churches in Revelation each greeted differently...

[Davy]

I think that passage connects up with what stars in Revelation mean and with the parable of the mustard seed nicely.

The small seed becomes big tree that reaches into heaven. Why did God compare the seed of Abraham to the tiniest earthly things and to magnificent stars in the sky? I didn't think of it -- someone told me -- and I thought, "Yes, that's it." God can take the smallest thing earthly thing and make it big and bright shining in Heaven. It's the same thing if the sand becomes stars -- just two ways of saying it.

If I'm right about that, the falling of one third of the stars is telling us about spiritual wickedness in high places being cast down.

The third part of stars of heaven were cast to the earth by the red dragon's tail. In Rev.12:9 we are shown the dragon is just another title for Satan. So this event in red is about the time of Satan's fall when he first rebelled against God in coveting His throne. The part in red in verse 4 is linked with the dragon in verse 3 by "his tail", so both have to be in the same timeframe. This event happened in the "world that then was", prior to this present world which is now.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

But this below is still future to us...

Rev 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

Note the number of 'crowns' between Rev.12:3 and Rev.13:1 in the next Revelation chapter. They're different. The world system with seven crowns was back when Satan first rebelled against God. The world system for the end in our near future, is to have ten crowns.


Rev 6:12-14
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
KJV

Verses 12 & 13 there is about the 6th Seal timing, and is pointing to the future great tribulation timing. The idea of untimely figs is about the winter fig that grows early in the winter but falls off in the spring. It is being used as a symbol for Satan and his host being cast down to this earth at the end right after the war in Heaven per Rev.12:7 forward. It is related to the parable of a fig tree that Jesus gave about the generation that will see all the signs of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse.

The 14th verse is a 7th Trumpet, 7th Vial event, the "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns on the last day of this world.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is being used as a symbol for Satan and his host being cast down to this earth at the end right after the war in Heaven per

Luke 10:18-20 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. [19] Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. [20] Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Not sure what you mean about all 7 Churches are now completed as far as judgment. It's actually apparent from His Messages that they are not yet completed as to judgment yet, but are still pending, all the way up to His return. Just because those Messages were given to those 7 Churches back in history, and some of them no longer exist in those lands anymore, that does not mean what He gave in those no longer are in effect. The 7 Churches represent a Heavenly pattern for the 7 candlesticks John saw. And only Jesus can remove those candlesticks.

Look at His Message to the Church at Sardis. He linked His judgment with them to His coming "as a thief". Our Lord Jesus has not yet returned today, but He will, and He will come upon many "as a thief" like He warned on the 6th Vial in Rev.16. So that Message is still in effect for today, and all the way up to His return. Likewise with each of the other 7 Messages.

Yes, you are correct. But they are being judged (purged) and giving opportunity to repent before the final judgment.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, you are correct. But they are being judged (purged) and giving opportunity to repent before the final judgment.

Who’s house are ye.
This isn’t a question.

 

[Giuliano]

Not sure what you mean about all 7 Churches are now completed as far as judgment. It's actually apparent from His Messages that they are not yet completed as to judgment yet, but are still pending, all the way up to His return. Just because those Messages were given to those 7 Churches back in history, and some of them no longer exist in those lands anymore, that does not mean what He gave in those no longer are in effect. The 7 Churches represent a Heavenly pattern for the 7 candlesticks John saw. And only Jesus can remove those candlesticks.

Look at His Message to the Church at Sardis. He linked His judgment with them to His coming "as a thief". Our Lord Jesus has not yet returned today, but He will, and He will come upon many "as a thief" like He warned on the 6th Vial in Rev.16. So that Message is still in effect for today, and all the way up to His return. Likewise with each of the other 7 Messages.

Go back to Revelation 1:1. He did come quickly for Sardis. Some were taken and some left behind. That age ended, and Jesus came before the end of that age.

Peter tells us the relationship between "a day" and "a thousand years." We read about "a thousand years" in Revelation. Put them together.

In one way, the way mortal men calculate time, six thousand years were given before the establishment of Eden for "work" to be done. That would be followed by another thousand years when the world would enter its "eternal rest." Thus there are patterns in history being repeated.

During each age, there are saints who are "ahead of schedule" being ahead of that generation. They steer others in the right direction. They were caught up in the air to be with Jesus even before Jesus was born to Mary. Jesus knew Abraham. Elijah and Moses knew him. These were men whose names were in the book of life from the foundation.

Jesus came for them even before he was born to Mary. Jesus came for Stephen. He came for John. But mortal eyes may not see it and know what they is going on. The kingdom does not come with observation.

Revelation 1:1 promises the things in the book will come to pass shortly. It needs to be read with that in mind. It is a book that promises good things to people who read it, hear it and obey it. If people in John's day read it and it could not do them any good, the promises wouldn't be true. That was true for people 1500 years ago. It was true for people 500 years ago. It is true today.

I advise reading it as if things are happening now. Read, "Behold, I come quickly," and ask, "At this very moment possibly?" Do not lay a restriction on his "coming." He is always coming. Coming back then, coming now, and coming in the future.

First we should understand how Jesus comes for us and leads us into the rest of the seventh day of Genesis. If we understand how he can perfect and come for us, then we have clues about he can perfect the world and eventually come for the whole world.

I think there were seven types of Christians then and there still are. There were seven types of spiritual problems before John wrote it -- and he uses the language that shows that. Thus Jezebel was around in the days of Elijah. She was present in John's day; and she's still around today.

Little by little Jezebel's power is being diminished. It got diminished when the historical Jezebel of the Old Testament lived and died. Each age eats away at that power. The kingdom advances in every age.

I think I could find about twenty passages that say Jesus would come back then. If someone doesn't see it, he'll think the passages need to be modified somehow. I'll give one passage. If you want others, I can give them, but you probably know what I mean.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

It was "now" when he wrote that. It was "now" when Israel heard the trumpet and didn't want to hear it. It was "now" when David compared his generation to that of Moses:

Psalm 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,

The day of salvation is always "today."

What is the holy city coming day? It is Eden. The Tree of Life tells me that. The "pure river of water of life" tells me that too. John is seeing the river that comes from the throne of God before it splits into four to spread out in four directions. We will have a problem with Genesis if we think the rivers there are physical. Have anyone ever known of a river that starts in one place and then divides into four? It can't be rivers found on the earth then, but there is a way that earth conforms in part to the heavenly pattern. The problem is that it conforms only in part. Things are going to be changed so that things on the earth are as they are in Heaven. Heavenly water has one source. Some "mountains" need to be changed

Zechariah 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Living waters again -- not physical water. Jerusalem means the Holy City or Eden which is already there, above the earthly Jerusalem -- coming down. It's also called God's holy hill in some places.

There are also "spiritual mountains." They can be moved. Don't be astonished when Jesus said faith could move mountains. It does. It is also said that Israel stood "under" a mountain -- not next to it but "under." So they did. Joshua could go up a little, but only Moses could go all the way up. That has been hard to see because translators think "under" can't be right so they change it to what they think it should be.

Abraham and Isaac visited that "holy hill." They saw a "ram". The Jews say that ram existed before God made anything else. So it did, I think -- the Lamb of God that existed from the foundation of the world. Note too that it's caught in thorns. Compare that to Jesus and the crown of thorns. Compare to the thorns as a spiritual problem caused by Adam and Eve. Compare to how God manifested to Moses in a thorn bush. God can manifest in the lowliest of things -- and change them into something His Glory can be shown.

My advice to anyone is to believe that anyone could read and hear it and then keep the sayings in it. After all, that's what it says as hard as it may be to see how people hundreds of years ago could benefit. If we start off with a preconception in our minds, convinced that Jesus did not come for those who waited for them back then, we cannot understand the book. It's not sealed, but it will look that way. Can we believe what we read?

Revelation 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

It was at hand back then, and it is at hand again for us today. Surely we should be able to see how John heard a trumpet, was caught up and met Jesus. Jesus came for him.

 

[Giuliano]

Revelation 6:13
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

He blew with His breath. As promised:
Malachi 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

I have to believe the "stars" in Revelation can be compared to a fig tree. The wicked are cut down and their fruit comes to nothing -- but the good tree and its fruits are preserved.

I think the cursing of the fig tree also shows something. Israel had stopped bearing fruit.

 

[Davy]

Yes, you are correct. But they are being judged (purged) and giving opportunity to repent before the final judgment.

Yeah, you could say that. But I see it more as warnings, just like His other warnings with the signs of the end He gave in His Olivet discourse.

 

[Davy]

Go back to Revelation 1:1. He did come quickly for Sardis. Some were taken and some left behind. That age ended, and Jesus came before the end of that age.

No, you're way... off base. This below is about Christ's future 2nd coming, and has clearly not happened yet...

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV


I don't do the so-called Church Ages stuff; that's men's doctrines loosely based on Bible events. God's Word does not teach those kind of ideas. The 7 Messages Jesus gave to the 7 Churches are for all... Churches from the time He gave those Messages up to the time of His 2nd coming. This is very easy to know too simply because He included the subject of His coming, i.e., His return, and He has not returned yet today. If you say He has already returned, then you go against The Word of God as written.

 

[Giuliano]

No, you're way... off base. This below is about Christ's future 2nd coming, and has clearly not happened yet...

Rev 1:7
7 Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
KJV


I don't do the so-called Church Ages stuff; that's men's doctrines loosely based on Bible events. God's Word does not teach those kind of ideas. The 7 Messages Jesus gave to the 7 Churches are for all... Churches from the time He gave those Messages up to the time of His 2nd coming. This is very easy to know too simply because He included the subject of His coming, i.e., His return, and He has not returned yet today. If you say He has already returned, then you go against The Word of God as written.

So you do not think a day can be like a thousand years? Peter said it was, and I tell you the thousand year reign is the seventh day -- just as the era of the Flood of Noah was the second day. The third era began when dry land appeared -- just as it did in Genesis on the third day. What's the difficulty in seeing this?

You do not believe the people who pierced him saw him return. You think they all died, awaiting the resurrection before they see him return? I thought the resurrection of the saints was before the 1000 year reign, and everyone else got resurrected after.

Did the High Priest witnessed it?

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Was that High Priest present when Jesus came for Stephen?

Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

What some people may vary, too; but I tell you every person born has received Light from Jesus.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Every eye has already seen him in one way. Yes, there is another way too. And then finally there is most magnificent of his comings to usher in the 1000 year reign.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

The wicked do not see that.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

You have been severe with me, saying I teach the doctrines of men. I tell you you teach things contrary to the Bible. You seem to scoff at what Jesus said to John. It's really clear to anyone with an open mind, who doesn't have solid beliefs that stand in the way of understanding.

John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

We can read Revelation and see Jesus kept that promise for John. He would also keep it for others in that age.

You stumble on the first verse of Revelation. You deny it can be right. That harms you. It leads you astray.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

You read the book and say, "These things didn't take shortly." I tell you if you can't believe the first verse, reading the rest of it is a waste of time.

And then you tell me I teach man-made doctrines?

I doubt you read my posts too carefully. If you had, you would have seen I don't believe in "church ages." I don't because John says in the first verse the events described are about things which take place "shortly." Those seven churches were there -- and John was telling them what they needed to know. I believe the same spiritual churches are still around -- in this age, as they were in that one. Where did you get the idea I believed in "church ages"? You made it up in your own mind, out of thin air. I think you read things casually without paying much attention. People do that when they think they know things before they read something. You have done it with the Bible, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if you aren't paying attention reading what I wrote. You do not offend me -- but I would recommend, for your benefit, that when you read the Bible, you pay attention. Some things may not be clear at first, that's okay. At least we know we don't know when we admit we don't know something. Yes, I advise you to look at the first verse and say, "I don't understand this. How can this be?" And then seek answers. You looked at it and said, "I know that's wrong."

That is jumping to conclusions. We need to examine each idea we have -- don't think it's true just because we think it. "Take every thought captive." Don't let it run wild in our minds.

 

[Giuliano]

The third part of stars of heaven were cast to the earth by the red dragon's tail. In Rev.12:9 we are shown the dragon is just another title for Satan. So this event in red is about the time of Satan's fall when he first rebelled against God in coveting His throne. The part in red in verse 4 is linked with the dragon in verse 3 by "his tail", so both have to be in the same timeframe. This event happened in the "world that then was", prior to this present world which is now.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

But this below is still future to us...

Rev 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

John said the things he wrote were about to happen shortly. You want to chop the chapter up into past and future. I don't understand you. What you believe seems random to me. I am sorry to say I didn't read the rest of your post. What you're saying doesn't make sense to me.

While I have opinions about those passages, I feel sure you'd reject them, so I won't try.

 

[Waiting on him]

John said the things he wrote were about to happen shortly. You want to chop the chapter up into past and future. I don't understand you. What you believe seems random to me. I am sorry to say I didn't read the rest of your post. What you're saying doesn't make sense to me.

While I have opinions about those passages, I feel sure you'd reject them, so I won't try.

What?

 

[Waiting on him]

The four horsemen come before this
It’s starting to appear to be before the crusifiction?

 

[Waiting on him]

So you do not think a day can be like a thousand years? Peter said it was, and I tell you the thousand year reign is the seventh day -- just as the era of the Flood of Noah was the second day. The third era began when dry land appeared -- just as it did in Genesis on the third day. What's the difficulty in seeing this?

You do not believe the people who pierced him saw him return. You think they all died, awaiting the resurrection before they see him return? I thought the resurrection of the saints was before the 1000 year reign, and everyone else got resurrected after.

Did the High Priest witnessed it?

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Was that High Priest present when Jesus came for Stephen?

Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

What some people may vary, too; but I tell you every person born has received Light from Jesus.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Every eye has already seen him in one way. Yes, there is another way too. And then finally there is most magnificent of his comings to usher in the 1000 year reign.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

The wicked do not see that.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

You have been severe with me, saying I teach the doctrines of men. I tell you you teach things contrary to the Bible. You seem to scoff at what Jesus said to John. It's really clear to anyone with an open mind, who doesn't have solid beliefs that stand in the way of understanding.

John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

We can read Revelation and see Jesus kept that promise for John. He would also keep it for others in that age.

You stumble on the first verse of Revelation. You deny it can be right. That harms you. It leads you astray.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

You read the book and say, "These things didn't take shortly." I tell you if you can't believe the first verse, reading the rest of it is a waste of time.

And then you tell me I teach man-made doctrines?

I doubt you read my posts too carefully. If you had, you would have seen I don't believe in "church ages." I don't because John says in the first verse the events described are about things which take place "shortly." Those seven churches were there -- and John was telling them what they needed to know. I believe the same spiritual churches are still around -- in this age, as they were in that one. Where did you get the idea I believed in "church ages"? You made it up in your own mind, out of thin air. I think you read things casually without paying much attention. People do that when they think they know things before they read something. You have done it with the Bible, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if you aren't paying attention reading what I wrote. You do not offend me -- but I would recommend, for your benefit, that when you read the Bible, you pay attention. Some things may not be clear at first, that's okay. At least we know we don't know when we admit we don't know something. Yes, I advise you to look at the first verse and say, "I don't understand this. How can this be?" And then seek answers. You looked at it and said, "I know that's wrong."

That is jumping to conclusions. We need to examine each idea we have -- don't think it's true just because we think it. "Take every thought captive." Don't let it run wild in our minds.

The High Priest?? This would make liars of almost everyone I know, including myself....

 

[Willie T]

Has anyone ever looked-up what "coming-on-the-clouds" meant in other parts of the Bible? (Scripture interprets Scripture, ya know.)

 

[Giuliano]

The High Priest?? This would make liars of almost everyone I know, including myself....

I believe the High Priest didn't witness Jesus' coming since Jesus told him he would; and he wasn't prepared for it. No wonder they acted so brutally. Notice too that Jesus showed respect for the High Priest. He possessed spiritual authority over the Jews then. I think he lost that spiritual authority when he faced judgment. He had not been a faithful servant, and what he had been given was taken and given to another.

 

[Waiting on him]

I believe the High Priest didn't witness Jesus' coming since Jesus told him he would; and he wasn't prepared for it. No wonder they acted so brutally. Notice too that Jesus showed respect for the High Priest. He possessed spiritual authority over the Jews then. I think he lost that spiritual authority when he faced judgment. He had not been a faithful servant, and what he had been given was taken and given to another.

But, did he witness it?

 

[bbyrd009]

Has anyone ever looked-up what "coming-on-the-clouds" meant in other parts of the Bible? (Scripture interprets Scripture, ya know.)

clouds are not very well defined for us i guess, yeh. They surround, and also obscure, pretty strange. Kinda like what we call Crowd Wisdom, which is almost infallible i guess, but seems to come from the same crowd that we might talk to in a forum and disagree with every one lol. But ppl still thinking literal clouds there, i would just move on i guess

 

[Waiting on him]

But, did he witness it?

Ephesians 4:21 KJV
[21] If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:


Tecarta Bible

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe the High Priest didn't witness Jesus' coming since Jesus told him he would

hmm, wouldnt that be our assurance that the HP did see Jesus coming?

 

[Waiting on him]

clouds are not very well defined for us i guess, yeh. They surround, and also obscure, pretty strange. Kinda like what we call Crowd Wisdom, which is almost infallible i guess, but seems to come from the same crowd that we might talk to in a forum and disagree with every one lol. But ppl still thinking literal clouds there, i would just move on i guess

Acts 2:3 KJV
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Clouds?

Tecarta Bible