Why are the 7 Churches in Revelation each greeted differently...

[Jay Ross]

The main trouble with finding something here and something there — the way we like to "discover" various numbers to add to other numbers, (with The Holy Spirit's guidance, of course) thus "proving" the end-times conclusions we have come up with...…… is that all the other people all down through history have been doing the very same thing to also "prove" that THEIR generation was actually the spoken-of, "Last Generation."

And then the REAL arrogance comes when we also swear the older generations got it all correct... and that is supposedly why we follow the Apostolic creeds they wrote, discarding any of this "new fangled Christianity"..... EXCEPT the revelation we "Chosen Ones" have been given that the whole book of Revelation was written almost exclusively for those of us living in what are finally the REAL End-times, the year 2019... (and maybe a few years beyond, if we happened to have guessed a little wrong.)

In your own wisdom you are right, and it can be dangerous, but hidden within the scriptures can be keys and treasures that help us to have better understanding. The trouble we have is that the translations reflect the mind sets of the translators and their theological understanding and do not necessarily reflect the content of the source documents which have been used to create the translation that we read today.

We come to the understandings that we can wrap our heads around but that does not mean that we have any understanding at all. I can name a number of members on this forum whose understanding comes only from the "English" translations and they blindly believe that the translations are infallible and so they peddle their understanding based on a faulty document not knowing the actual truth of the matter. Their argument goes like this, I have checked out the other translations and they all fundamentally say the same thing, therefore I must be right in what I post. They do not have the skill sets to dig any deeper. When I have dug deeper, I have not always got it right the first time either, and i have had to eat humble pie because I had only focused on one part of a verse without expanding the search for truth further.

Knowing the truth is a very fickle thing. Sometime we are on the money, other times we are way off base and get caught out.

Shalom

 

[Willie T]

Alas, the poor people born with almost no skill sets of much of any kind. They spell out in their simple terms, what they think the Bible tells them...…… And here we theologically wizened ones come along, telling them what the secret, hidden things of the Bible ACTUALLY say. And our studied words just fall to the floor. (I think I know who Jesus would say will enter the kingdom first.)

 

[Waiting on him]

Alas, the poor people born with almost no skill sets of much of any kind. They spell out in their simple terms, what they think the Bible tells them...…… And here we theologically wizened ones come along, telling them what the secret, hidden things of the Bible ACTUALLY say. And our studied words just fall to the floor. (I think I know who Jesus would say will enter the kingdom first.)

I’m no theologian, but wasn’t Jesus first.

 

[Enoch111]

I would warn against the so-called 'Church Ages' theories.

I would tend to agree. It may be an interesting concept, but there is no need to stretch this idea. When you come right down to it the church at Laodicea consisted of UNSAVED PROFESSORS according to how they are described by Christ -- Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art [1] wretched, and [2] miserable, and [3] poor, and [4] blind, and [5] naked. None of these terms is spiritually applicable to the children of God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The main trouble with finding something here and something there — the way we like to "discover" various numbers to add to other numbers, (with The Holy Spirit's guidance, of course) thus "proving" the end-times conclusions we have come up with...…… is that all the other people all down through history have been doing the very same thing to also "prove" that THEIR generation was actually the spoken of "Last Generation."

And then the REAL arrogance comes when we also swear the older generations got it all correct... and that is supposedly why we follow the Apostolic creeds they wrote, discarding any of this "new fangled Christianity"..... EXCEPT the revelation we "Chosen Ones" have been given that the whole book of Revelation was written almost exclusively for those of us living in what are finally the REAL End-times, the year 2019... (and maybe a few years beyond, if we happened to have guessed a little wrong.)

Willie I get your frustration with everyone claiming to have the meaning of Revelation....however, to disregard it's prophetic relevance and the importance it has for God's people may create a false security.
Both in Daniel and in Revelation the mention of the little book that is to be kept hidden until the appointed time is what those books lead up to.
I believe that whatever is written in that book will tie everything together and our eyes will be opened to see the hidden wisdom within these books. But without having any knowledge of what is already available for us to study and seek the Holy Spirit to help us understand, how will anyone be able to comprehend what is written in that little book?
When God is ready to let it's content be made known only those who had ears to hear what the Spirit has spoken will overcome. That brings us back to the 7 churches.
Let him who has ears, hear what the Spirit has spoken to the churches.
To me, this says that it is imperative as believers to study and know what is spoken to the 7 churches because it connects the dots so to speak in preparing to receive the hidden message that will be revealed at the appointed time.
I do not say this as one skilled in theology but rather what the Holy Spirit has shown me.
And not just me but all who have ears to hear.
As I stated in my OP, the Holy Spirit directed me to study Revelation. I will never come to understand it without His help.
Still seeking.
God Bless

 

[Jay Ross]

Alas, the poor people born with almost no skill sets of much of any kind. They spell out in their simple terms, what they think the Bible tells them...…… And here we theologically wizened ones come along, telling them what the secret, hidden things of the Bible ACTUALLY say. And our studied words just fall to the floor. (I think I know who Jesus would say will enter the kingdom first.)

Oh willie, you can lead a horse to water, but getting the horse to drink the water is very different thing.

You can tell people the truth of the matter but they will still prefer to hold onto their traditions and practices.

But as long as they hold onto believing on Him whom He has sent, then the flock that they belong to, in the first separation. will be assured, however it is how they will put that belief into practice that will cause them to pass to either the right or the left of the Judgement seat at the time of judgement that will finally count as to whether or not we are know by the Lord.

Shalom

 

[Willie T]

As I said, thinking we know some deep secrets of the Bible, and magnanimously passing them on to simple people who ALREADY know what God wants them to know of Him, does nothing but bolster our own self-images of what studious people we must be. It is not US telling them how God expects them to act that determins His acceptance of them.

 

[Willie T]

Some of you are so much wiser than I am. To tell you the truth, I would never have even dreamed of the idea of a Rapture by ONLY (notice the word, "ONLY") reading the Bible. Unlike some of you, a human person first told me of a thing called "The Rapture", and where to go to see words I could say described it.

Had a man (or woman) not first told me there was supposed to be a Rapture, just ("only", again) Bible Study would never have found it.

But, I WAS told to believe that way, and that inculcation was a part of my Baptist-instilled belief in a rapture..... for over 50 years...…. then I began reading to see if more than only what I was told existed.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Some of you are so much wiser than I am. To tell you the truth, I would never have even dreamed of the idea of a Rapture by ONLY (notice the word, "ONLY") reading the Bible. Unlike some of you, a human person first told me of a thing called "The Rapture", and where to go to see words I could say described it.

Had a man (or woman) not first told me there was supposed to be a Rapture, just ("only", again) Bible Study would never have found it.

But, I WAS told to believe that way, and that inculcation was a part of my Baptist-instilled belief in a rapture..... for over 50 years...…. then I began reading to see if more than only what I was told existed.

This is off topic but I have already shared I am not a pre-trib rapture believer.
Are you equating this discussion as the rapture being associated with the 7 Churches?
In reading Rev 1...I read that the 7 stars are the 7 angels assigned to the 7 churches, and the 7 candlesticks are the 7 churches...

Now I am in Chapter 11...the 2 witnesses....they are called the 2 olive trees and the 2 lampstands that stand before the God of the earth....in cross referencing I am taken to Zechariah...who is shown two olive trees standing on each side of the golden candlestick who receive the golden oil that is poured out...the 2 anointed ones.

So candlestick is something totally different in Ch. 11. Makes my head spin....the olive trees and the candlesticks both represent the 2 witnesses.

So candlestick seems to have to meanings....
Still seeking.

 

[Willie T]

This is off topic but I have already shared I am not a pre-trib rapture believer.
Are you equating this discussion as the rapture being associated with the 7 Churches?
In reading Rev 1...I read that the 7 stars are the 7 angels assigned to the 7 churches, and the 7 candlesticks are the 7 churches...

Now I am in Chapter 11...the 2 witnesses....they are called the 2 olive trees and the 2 lampstands that stand before the God of the earth....in cross referencing I am taken to Zechariah...who is shown two olive trees standing on each side of the golden candlestick who receive the golden oil that is poured out...the 2 anointed ones.

So candlestick is something totally different in Ch. 11. Makes my head spin....the olive trees and the candlesticks both represent the 2 witnesses.

So candlestick seems to have to meanings....
Still seeking.

EVERYTHING in the Book of Revelation has meaning. And, surprisingly to many people, just about all of those meanings are to be found right in the Old Testament.

Have you read any of the three books I offered people? It is there.

 

[Heart2Soul]

EVERYTHING in the Book of Revelation has meaning. And, surprisingly to many people, just about all of those meanings are to be found right in the Old Testament.

Yes I am seeing alot of cross references are in the OT.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Some of you are so much wiser than I am. To tell you the truth, I would never have even dreamed of the idea of a Rapture by ONLY (notice the word, "ONLY") reading the Bible. Unlike some of you, a human person first told me of a thing called "The Rapture", and where to go to see words I could say described it.

Had a man (or woman) not first told me there was supposed to be a Rapture, just ("only", again) Bible Study would never have found it.

But, I WAS told to believe that way, and that inculcation was a part of my Baptist-instilled belief in a rapture..... for over 50 years...…. then I began reading to see if more than only what I was told existed.

Don't be frustrated with peoples lack of understanding....I wouldn't be studying Revelation if the Holy Spirit hadn't directed me to. So what I am discovering for the first time is new and exciting to me.
You have knowledge that surpasses mine...but I trust that by the time the Holy Spirit is done teaching and opening my eyes to see clearly that I will be equally as knowledgeable as you.

 

[Heart2Soul]

EVERYTHING in the Book of Revelation has meaning. And, surprisingly to many people, just about all of those meanings are to be found right in the Old Testament.

Have you read any of the three books I offered people? It is there.

I have only gotten partially through one of them. I need to get it formatted better for easier reading on the eyes.

 

[Willie T]

BTW, if you ever get your formatting straightened out, I am currently editing and formatting a GIANT book on "The Laws" (1,020 original pages — but I have it compressed down to just a little over 700 pages) This is truly a fascinating book, what with all the side stories and anticdotes the author relates. (It will take me at least another week to get it all ready for mailing.)

 

[Heart2Soul]

BTW, if you ever get your formatting straightened out, I am currently editing and formatting a GIANT book on "The Laws" (1,020 original pages — but I have it compressed down to just a little over 700 pages) This is truly a fascinating book, what with all the side stories and anticdotes the author relates. (It will take me at least another week to get it all ready for mailing.)

I don't have pdf on my computer...how do edit this thing.

 

[farouk]

I don't have pdf on my computer...how do edit this thing.

I've been doing this stuff for years but still feel a novice sometimes about how to do computer stuff...

 

[farouk]

I’m no theologian, but wasn’t Jesus first.

Revelation 1: 'Alpha and Omega...the first and the last'.

 

[farouk]

I have only gotten partially through one of them. I need to get it formatted better for easier reading on the eyes.

These days eyesight and print size are issues that years ago weren't so important...maybe this is your experience also...

 

[farouk]

Don't be frustrated with peoples lack of understanding....I wouldn't be studying Revelation if the Holy Spirit hadn't directed me to. So what I am discovering for the first time is new and exciting to me.
You have knowledge that surpasses mine...but I trust that by the time the Holy Spirit is done teaching and opening my eyes to see clearly that I will be equally as knowledgeable as you.

"...when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." (John 16.13)

 

[farouk]

Yes I am seeing alot of cross references are in the OT.

The Scriptures and so rich and full that we can continually see more and more links and themes dove-tailing with one another, in Old and New Testaments. (Why do Christians even bother to watch TV, when there is such a lot of rich and profitable reading and learning to be had in God's Word? )