Why Christianity is Hard to Reach to the Rationalist Audience

[FluorineCake]

You may or may not know the type. The type that prides themselves on their intellect, rationality, and scoff at the idea that God is real. These individuals sometimes even read The Bible and are not convinced - or even are convinced further against The Word. Many Christians simply do not even bother with these types of individuals due to how difficult it is to spread The Gospel to them. It is important to spread the teachings of Christ to everyone of course, the more the merrier - but Christianity can definitely benefit a lot with these individuals converting as it gives off a ripple effect that lessens their grip that "Christianity is stupid and irrational." People are more likely to be reached by someone that they can relate to or who understands them in specific.

So why are they hard to reach? I believe the reason is intertwined to why they "identify with their mind vs. their body." What do I mean by this? If you've ever noticed them talk about their body, they seem to regard it as something awkward, meaty, or with some of them - even disgusting and animalistic. A lot of them seem to want to "upload their consciousness to a computer" or other forms of transhumanism. Not only is this damaging spiritually, it leaves a psychological toll on them, even if subtle.

These individuals often have a severed mind-body connection. When one denies (whether intentionally or not) the purpose of the body and why we were created as embodied, it makes sense why they wouldn't see why God loves them - or even exists. The purpose of the body isn't just an arbitrary vessel that we're "stuck with" - rather, we *are* (partially) our bodies and everything that entails - our capacity for love, connection, identity, and potentially even free will. It is why we are God's greatest creation, why satan desperately wants to subvert us and how he attempts to do so. Our bodies are so important that we are still embodied in New Jerusalem and The Final Resurrection and are not simply just incorporeal beings.

There are likely other reasons these types may not believe in God, and it is difficult to reach these types the more entrenched they are in rationalist communities and modes of thinking, but personally I think this might be a good stepping stone. What do you guys think?

 

[Pearl]

We can't come to Jesus with our intellect we must come with our hearts.

 

[Bob]

Thank you for the post.

To begin, if someone is raised in an environment that teaches the material universe is all there is, and science can explain everything, it is difficult for them to think differently (albeit not impossible). Next, many of these same people blame all of their problems on others or anything else but their own behavior. As a result, they see no reason to question their world view.

The Prodigal Son returned home only because he remembered how much life was better there than his current circumstance.

It takes patience to convince the willfully ignorant that a better life awaits them in the arms of God. Even then, as Jesus told us, only a fraction will ever embrace fully a life of faith.

(Convincing can also be doubly difficult if the person is taught the Bible says the universe is only thousands of years old.)

Peace.

 

[Rockerduck]

The Lord God Almighty has made it abundantly clear to me that the time is coming to an end for this world. Either do like me, and tell everyone the Gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ or take the wait and see approach. If you tell or show anyone it's on them, if you don't it's on you. The day you were born again, you became an ambassador of Christ. It's your duty.

 

[FluorineCake]

We can't come to Jesus with our intellect we must come with our hearts.

I'm not sure if I quite understand this. The heart and intellect aren't opposed to each other. While yes - the belief in God and the decision to follow Him is maneuvered by the Holy Spirit, intellect and rationality can serve as it's method to have one try to know Christ and follow Him. My main point with the original post was that the rationalist audience has resistance against the idea that God loves them or even exists.

To begin, if someone is raised in an environment that teaches the material universe is all there is, and science can explain everything, it is difficult for them to think differently (albeit not impossible). Next, many of these same people blame all of their problems on others or anything else but their own behavior. As a result, they see no reason to question their world view.

I can see some merit in this, but a lot of them *do* seem interested/baffled by religion in general and don't know why so many of us believe in it. They are generally curious individuals who typically at least *try* to understand the rationale behind religion but can't see it for the aforementioned reason.

The Lord God Almighty has made it abundantly clear to me that the time is coming to an end for this world. Either do like me, and tell everyone the Gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ or take the wait and see approach. If you tell or show anyone it's on them, if you don't it's on you. The day you were born again, you became an ambassador of Christ. It's your duty.

I agree. I worry for some of my friends and I want to try guiding them but I fear some of them have *very* heavy guarding. I do see traits of a mind-body disconnection in many of them though, but I don't really know exactly how to work on it besides telling them something akin to "Uhh, try a mind-body based therapist?"

 

[Rockerduck]

I'm not sure if I quite understand this. The heart and intellect aren't opposed to each other. While yes - the belief in God and the decision to follow Him is maneuvered by the Holy Spirit, intellect and rationality can serve as it's method to have one try to know Christ and follow Him. My main point with the original post was that the rationalist audience has resistance against the idea that God loves them or even exists.

I can see some merit in this, but a lot of them *do* seem interested/baffled by religion in general and don't know why so many of us believe in it. They are generally curious individuals who typically at least *try* to understand the rationale behind religion but can't see it for the aforementioned reason.

I agree. I worry for some of my friends and I want to try guiding them but I fear some of them have *very* heavy guarding. I do see traits of a mind-body disconnection in many of them though, but I don't really know exactly how to work on it besides telling them something akin to "Uhh, try a mind-body based therapist?"

Satan is working full time right now. In all levels of schools by teachers being influenced by demons. Colleges have always been a hot bed of ideas, but when I went to school, nobody attacked anyone for their beliefs. Even Government work has been affected, but there are Christians in Gov't. I retired from a local gov't. Children stayed in the house playing games instead of outside playing with neighborhood kids. That generation grew up wanting therapists. All this has happened in the last 40 yrs. Its like the Columbine high school shooting kicked off a slew of mass shootings. Then came covid and nothing is the same after that, so hold on, Jesus will be here shortly, and Jesus tells me that. I lost every friend I had when I started telling them about Jesus, every one of them, including my ex-wife. I made new friends and church friends. Being a Christian is not for the weak. Christ will give you the boldness you need to just do it and Let Go and Let God do His work in you.

 

[FluorineCake]

Satan is working full time right now. In all levels of schools by teachers being influenced by demons. Colleges have always been a hot bed of ideas, but when I went to school, nobody attacked anyone for their beliefs. Even Government work has been affected, but there are Christians in Gov't. I retired from a local gov't. Children stayed in the house playing games instead of outside playing with neighborhood kids. That generation grew up wanting therapists. All this has happened in the last 40 yrs. Its like the Columbine high school shooting kicked off a slew of mass shootings. Then came covid and nothing is the same after that, so hold on, Jesus will be here shortly, and Jesus tells me that. I lost every friend I had when I started telling them about Jesus, every one of them, including my ex-wife. I made new friends and church friends. Being a Christian is not for the weak. Christ will give you the boldness you need to just do it and Let Go and Let God do His work in you.

I agree with this, all of this is related to MKULTRA and similar projects and it effects society as a whole. The part where you said you lost all your friends reminds me of how some individuals tend to assume the worst of Christians and make irrational leaps of emotionality and reactivity once you reveal you have faith in Him. "Oh you're a Christian? So you literally want women to be enslaved housewives with 0 rights who are constantly abused?" and other ideas that they were taught about Christians and Christianity.

Most of my friends aren't like this fortunately, many of them are not Christian but it's for reasons mentioned in the original post rather than being taught by the new world order to hate God and everything He stands for. I've been to some strange corners of the internet and these spaces tend to filter out those that are upset by ideas that challenge them. I do admit that while I was never a strong rationalist type, I have somewhat of a personal investment in the topic in a strong regard, but I would rather keep the main topic of the thread away from me.

 

[Wynona]

You may or may not know the type. The type that prides themselves on their intellect, rationality, and scoff at the idea that God is real. These individuals sometimes even read The Bible and are not convinced - or even are convinced further against The Word. Many Christians simply do not even bother with these types of individuals due to how difficult it is to spread The Gospel to them. It is important to spread the teachings of Christ to everyone of course, the more the merrier - but Christianity can definitely benefit a lot with these individuals converting as it gives off a ripple effect that lessens their grip that "Christianity is stupid and irrational." People are more likely to be reached by someone that they can relate to or who understands them in specific.

So why are they hard to reach? I believe the reason is intertwined to why they "identify with their mind vs. their body." What do I mean by this? If you've ever noticed them talk about their body, they seem to regard it as something awkward, meaty, or with some of them - even disgusting and animalistic. A lot of them seem to want to "upload their consciousness to a computer" or other forms of transhumanism. Not only is this damaging spiritually, it leaves a psychological toll on them, even if subtle.

These individuals often have a severed mind-body connection. When one denies (whether intentionally or not) the purpose of the body and why we were created as embodied, it makes sense why they wouldn't see why God loves them - or even exists. The purpose of the body isn't just an arbitrary vessel that we're "stuck with" - rather, we *are* (partially) our bodies and everything that entails - our capacity for love, connection, identity, and potentially even free will. It is why we are God's greatest creation, why satan desperately wants to subvert us and how he attempts to do so. Our bodies are so important that we are still embodied in New Jerusalem and The Final Resurrection and are not simply just incorporeal beings.

There are likely other reasons these types may not believe in God, and it is difficult to reach these types the more entrenched they are in rationalist communities and modes of thinking, but personally I think this might be a good stepping stone. What do you guys think?

I really like that you mention how we have real bodies in the new heavens and new earth. This was very encouraging to me. I came to Christ as a skeptical agnostic. Writers like C.S Lewis were a great help to answering some of my questions about the faith against a secular humanist background.

My husband also had a similar journey and said my willingness to answer questions about the faith without defensiveness was a huge help.

Christians that listen well and answer questions well and without defensiveness can be a great help to rational people.

 

[Pearl]

I'm not sure if I quite understand this. The heart and intellect aren't opposed to each other. While yes - the belief in God and the decision to follow Him is maneuvered by the Holy Spirit, intellect and rationality can serve as it's method to have one try to know Christ and follow Him. My main point with the original post was that the rationalist audience has resistance against the idea that God loves them or even exists.

All my life I knew about and believed in God with my mind but it wasn't until I was in my thirties and I heard the Gospel that my heart responded to Him in a new and powerful way and I was truly reborn spiritually.

 

[rockytopva]

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen. - Galatians 1

Key words here... "To reveal his Son in me." It takes God to reveal his Son to the hearts of man. Without which we are helpless.

 

[Wrangler]

Great OP

The type that prides themselves on their intellect, rationality, and scoff at the idea that God is real.

Rationalists are their own god.

Many Christians simply do not even bother with these types of individuals due to how difficult it is to spread The Gospel to them.

Makes sense not to throw pearls before swine.

Christianity can definitely benefit a lot with these individuals converting as it gives off a ripple effect that lessens their grip that "Christianity is stupid and irrational."

I’ve flipped the script. Tell Atheists that I do t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

I’ve written extensively that believers too often make the mistake of defending the faith on the enemies terms. Once done, they are defeated before the argument unfolds. Perhaps the biggest example is adopting the proof of God standard to be unreasonably high - mathematical proof v more likely than not.

People are more likely to be reached by someone that they can relate to or who understands them in specific.

So why are they hard to reach?

Goethe said those who falsely believe they are free are most enslaved.

 

[Marilyn C]

You may or may not know the type. The type that prides themselves on their intellect, rationality, and scoff at the idea that God is real. These individuals sometimes even read The Bible and are not convinced - or even are convinced further against The Word. Many Christians simply do not even bother with these types of individuals due to how difficult it is to spread The Gospel to them. It is important to spread the teachings of Christ to everyone of course, the more the merrier - but Christianity can definitely benefit a lot with these individuals converting as it gives off a ripple effect that lessens their grip that "Christianity is stupid and irrational." People are more likely to be reached by someone that they can relate to or who understands them in specific.

So why are they hard to reach? I believe the reason is intertwined to why they "identify with their mind vs. their body." What do I mean by this? If you've ever noticed them talk about their body, they seem to regard it as something awkward, meaty, or with some of them - even disgusting and animalistic. A lot of them seem to want to "upload their consciousness to a computer" or other forms of transhumanism. Not only is this damaging spiritually, it leaves a psychological toll on them, even if subtle.

These individuals often have a severed mind-body connection. When one denies (whether intentionally or not) the purpose of the body and why we were created as embodied, it makes sense why they wouldn't see why God loves them - or even exists. The purpose of the body isn't just an arbitrary vessel that we're "stuck with" - rather, we *are* (partially) our bodies and everything that entails - our capacity for love, connection, identity, and potentially even free will. It is why we are God's greatest creation, why satan desperately wants to subvert us and how he attempts to do so. Our bodies are so important that we are still embodied in New Jerusalem and The Final Resurrection and are not simply just incorporeal beings.

There are likely other reasons these types may not believe in God, and it is difficult to reach these types the more entrenched they are in rationalist communities and modes of thinking, but personally I think this might be a good stepping stone. What do you guys think?

Hi FC,

A good description of that group. Then there are Muslims, atheists, hedonists, etc all of whom seem to be difficult to reach. However.... they are not difficult for God. As we are directed to a person and develop a relationship with them, gaining trust, we pray for the Lord to expose their hearts and minds to them. Prayer is the key for it is only by the Holy Spirit that anyone can come to the Lord.

Too often we see the difficulty and think we have to get through it. No God is the one who exposes the heart/mind and we are the one who points the way to God through Jesus.

Also many believers are too quick to bring out scripture when it is not time for that. We need to hear where the person is at and what obstacle is preventing them from knowing & trusting God. It is that obstacle that we pray against.

 

[Wrangler]

all of whom seem to be difficult to reach.

Great, great post @Marilyn C!

Also many believers are too quick to bring out scripture when it is not time for that. We need to hear where the person is at and what obstacle is preventing them from knowing & trusting God. It is that obstacle that we pray against.

Effective evangelism requires establishing a personal relationship with the potential convert on some level as a prerequisite. Otherwise, evangelists become off putting proselytizers that reinforce the obstacles for genuine coming to Christ later. Such proselytizers confuse theology, that God comes first (1C), with the human need for intimacy tied to the emotional state that allows intimacy to develop.

Talking about God and spirituality is more intimate than sex. And sex is a very intimate act. It's physically an intimate act and emotionally it should be a very intimate act. Proselytizers are like hedonists and philanderers, who engage in casual interaction. If anything, they're more akin to a rapist than a lover, relying on coercion and intimidation. This is not the way.

By contrast, it takes a while to establish intimacy and trust for the potential convert to share where they are spiritually. And this is so important! Rationalist's obstacle is their rationality. They trust their mind above God and they trust their mind more than they should. You're better off talking to a brick wall. As a former enemy of Christ, I know the pride they put in their rationality and the contempt they have for emotion based decision making lacking evidence and logic. The sinner's prayer is an emotional confession. Rationalists are not there yet. They're not ready for the fervor that naturally comes with an encounter with the divine.

And here is the comparison with sex again. Sex is not rationally tempting but tempting at the experiential level; you don't rationally argue with a stranger for sex and neither should you rationally argue with a stranger about God. Rather, it is having the intimacy with that person to share your experience with the divine in the hopes it will open their eyes to the greater world, the spiritual world that their rationality has closed them off to even acknowledging exists. God is a person we have a relationship with, not a rational argument!

 

[Nancy]

If we only look back in time as to how Satan has been working in the "leaders" of this world, it is so apparent as to how he has done so very slowly...since the beginning of time. Here is a very concerning but also very needed for all to hear.

It is on Instagram and it would be worth it to join just for this message alone, IMHO:

Instagram

Create an account or log in to Instagram - Share what you're into with the people who get you.

www.instagram.com

 

[amigo de christo]

You may or may not know the type. The type that prides themselves on their intellect, rationality, and scoff at the idea that God is real. These individuals sometimes even read The Bible and are not convinced - or even are convinced further against The Word. Many Christians simply do not even bother with these types of individuals due to how difficult it is to spread The Gospel to them. It is important to spread the teachings of Christ to everyone of course, the more the merrier - but Christianity can definitely benefit a lot with these individuals converting as it gives off a ripple effect that lessens their grip that "Christianity is stupid and irrational." People are more likely to be reached by someone that they can relate to or who understands them in specific.

So why are they hard to reach? I believe the reason is intertwined to why they "identify with their mind vs. their body." What do I mean by this? If you've ever noticed them talk about their body, they seem to regard it as something awkward, meaty, or with some of them - even disgusting and animalistic. A lot of them seem to want to "upload their consciousness to a computer" or other forms of transhumanism. Not only is this damaging spiritually, it leaves a psychological toll on them, even if subtle.

These individuals often have a severed mind-body connection. When one denies (whether intentionally or not) the purpose of the body and why we were created as embodied, it makes sense why they wouldn't see why God loves them - or even exists. The purpose of the body isn't just an arbitrary vessel that we're "stuck with" - rather, we *are* (partially) our bodies and everything that entails - our capacity for love, connection, identity, and potentially even free will. It is why we are God's greatest creation, why satan desperately wants to subvert us and how he attempts to do so. Our bodies are so important that we are still embodied in New Jerusalem and The Final Resurrection and are not simply just incorporeal beings.

There are likely other reasons these types may not believe in God, and it is difficult to reach these types the more entrenched they are in rationalist communities and modes of thinking, but personally I think this might be a good stepping stone. What do you guys think?

Verily verily i say unto thee
THE REASON ANY MAN WOMAN OR CHILD does not come TO JESUS THE CHRIST
THEY LOVED the darkness , they love thier sin and do NOT want to be reproved .
Pretty simple .

 

[amigo de christo]

If we only look back in time as to how Satan has been working in the "leaders" of this world, it is so apparent as to how he has done so very slowly...since the beginning of time. Here is a very concerning but also very needed for all to hear.

It is on Instagram and it would be worth it to join just for this message alone, IMHO:

Instagram

Create an account or log in to Instagram - Share what you're into with the people who get you.

www.instagram.com

Let it never once be named or said amongst the sheep
TO THINE OWN SELF to be true .
Rather TO GOD ALL MIGHTY , CHRIST Be true . Just a friendly reminder for us all .

 

[Marilyn C]

Great, great post @Marilyn C!

Effective evangelism requires establishing a personal relationship with the potential convert on some level as a prerequisite. Otherwise, evangelists become off putting proselytizers that reinforce the obstacles for genuine coming to Christ later. Such proselytizers confuse theology, that God comes first (1C), with the human need for intimacy tied to the emotional state that allows intimacy to develop.

Talking about God and spirituality is more intimate than sex. And sex is a very intimate act. It's physically an intimate act and emotionally it should be a very intimate act. Proselytizers are like hedonists and philanderers, who engage in casual interaction. If anything, they're more akin to a rapist than a lover, relying on coercion and intimidation. This is not the way.

By contrast, it takes a while to establish intimacy and trust for the potential convert to share where they are spiritually. And this is so important! Rationalist's obstacle is their rationality. They trust their mind above God and they trust their mind more than they should. You're better off talking to a brick wall. As a former enemy of Christ, I know the pride they put in their rationality and the contempt they have for emotion based decision making lacking evidence and logic. The sinner's prayer is an emotional confession. Rationalists are not there yet. They're not ready for the fervor that naturally comes with an encounter with the divine.

And here is the comparison with sex again. Sex is not rationally tempting but tempting at the experiential level; you don't rationally argue with a stranger for sex and neither should you rationally argue with a stranger about God. Rather, it is having the intimacy with that person to share your experience with the divine in the hopes it will open their eyes to the greater world, the spiritual world that their rationality has closed them off to even acknowledging exists. God is a person we have a relationship with, not a rational argument!

Great comparison there Wrangler. Makes one tread more carefully and not give out the 4 laws or Roman Road without connection (if you can).

 

[Prycejosh1987]

Christianity can be hard to reach to any audience. Jesus saves, but His ways are a problem to the natural mind. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and His ways higher than our ways.

 

[quietthinker]

You may or may not know the type. The type that prides themselves on their intellect, rationality, and scoff at the idea that God is real. These individuals sometimes even read The Bible and are not convinced - or even are convinced further against The Word. Many Christians simply do not even bother with these types of individuals due to how difficult it is to spread The Gospel to them. It is important to spread the teachings of Christ to everyone of course, the more the merrier - but Christianity can definitely benefit a lot with these individuals converting as it gives off a ripple effect that lessens their grip that "Christianity is stupid and irrational." People are more likely to be reached by someone that they can relate to or who understands them in specific.

So why are they hard to reach? I believe the reason is intertwined to why they "identify with their mind vs. their body." What do I mean by this? If you've ever noticed them talk about their body, they seem to regard it as something awkward, meaty, or with some of them - even disgusting and animalistic. A lot of them seem to want to "upload their consciousness to a computer" or other forms of transhumanism. Not only is this damaging spiritually, it leaves a psychological toll on them, even if subtle.

These individuals often have a severed mind-body connection. When one denies (whether intentionally or not) the purpose of the body and why we were created as embodied, it makes sense why they wouldn't see why God loves them - or even exists. The purpose of the body isn't just an arbitrary vessel that we're "stuck with" - rather, we *are* (partially) our bodies and everything that entails - our capacity for love, connection, identity, and potentially even free will. It is why we are God's greatest creation, why satan desperately wants to subvert us and how he attempts to do so. Our bodies are so important that we are still embodied in New Jerusalem and The Final Resurrection and are not simply just incorporeal beings.

There are likely other reasons these types may not believe in God, and it is difficult to reach these types the more entrenched they are in rationalist communities and modes of thinking, but personally I think this might be a good stepping stone. What do you guys think?

'these individuals', 'them', 'christians', 'they', 'their consciousness' etc. are all expressions used to hide behind, blame, project, and basically put out the idea of, 'they (others) are so wrong and I am so right.

It makes the observant listener cringe at the arrogant self righteousness usually oblivious to the speaker.