Why Christians Call Mary the Mother of God.

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Moonwood

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The question that immediately occurs to me is: why are you asking this? If it is merely to stress that the Lord Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, then all genuine Christians will agree with that; but, I suspect that that is not your motive.

The reason I'm asking is because this thread was created in direct response to a statement made by another member:

"Where in the Word of God is Mary ever referred to as the mother of God? In fact where do we ever read that God has a mother?"

My purpose was to address that specific claim and explain why many Christians have historically used the title Mother of God.

The argument is really about the identity of Christ. If Jesus is God incarnate, and Mary is His mother, then what follows from that?

That's the question I'm exploring.

I've presented my reasoning from Scripture, particularly Luke 1:43 and John 20:28. Anyone who believes the argument is mistaken is welcome to show where they think the reasoning breaks down.

So rather than discussing motives, I'd prefer to discuss the actual argument. And of course, anyone who shares the view expressed by rwb, or disagrees with my conclusion, is welcome to participate in the discussion.
 
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RandyDawson

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Hi Randy...
Cute avatar.

1. Are you here stating that Catholics are not Christain?

2. Are you here stating that Jesus did not have a mother?

Jesus did have a mom, and

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
 
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RandyDawson

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Christians don't pray to Mary.
Catholics do, but Christians don't.

No, Christians don't pray to Mary.
Because Jesus and His apostles never did, not did they teach others to.


The Westminster Larger Catechism

That document is not derived from the Doctrine of Christ either.
Calvinism is false doctrine too. Sorry.
 

Moonwood

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Answers:

1. Yes
2. No, Mary gave birth to the man child called Jesus
3. No, God has no mother, Mary is the mother of the man child born of flesh and blood.

I'm trying to understand your position.

You say:
  • Jesus is God.
  • Mary did not give birth to "Jesus God."
  • Mary gave birth only to "the man child called Jesus."
So are you distinguishing between Jesus who is God and Jesus who is Mary's Son?

If so, how many Jesuses are there?

Scripture presents one Jesus Christ, not one divine Jesus and another human Jesus.

The one whom Mary bore is the same one whom John identifies as the Word made flesh (John 1:14), whom Elizabeth calls "my Lord" (Luke 1:43), and whom Thomas calls "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

So when you say Mary gave birth only to "the man child called Jesus," are you saying that Mary's Son is someone other than the divine Son of God?
 
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RandyDawson

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Mary is not worshipped.

There quite a few former catholics that say she is.
All one has to do is read the rosary to know Mary is being worshiped.
The rosary did not come from Jesus or His apostles since it is not found in the bible.


"Where in the Word of God is Mary ever referred to as the mother of God? In fact where do we ever read that God has a mother?"

Jesus tells us plainly who His mother is and who His brother, and sister.

Jesus said "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
(Matthew 12:50)

Jesus never taught anybody to pray to Mary, worship Mary, or to try and contact the dead.
Ya'll did know Mary passed away right and she's no longer here on earth?
 
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Moonwood

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Jesus tells us plainly who His mother is and who His brother, and sister.

Jesus said "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
(Matthew 12:50)

Jesus never taught anybody to pray to Mary, worship Mary, or to try and contact the dead.
Ya'll did know Mary passed away right and she's no longer here on earth?

I was quoting another member who asked:

"Where in the Word of God is Mary ever referred to as the mother of God? In fact where do we ever read that God has a mother?"

I wasn't asking that question.
 

Moonwood

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Jesus tells us plainly who His mother is and who His brother, and sister.

Jesus said "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
(Matthew 12:50)

Yes, but Jesus's only biological mother is Mary of Nazareth:

"You will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus." (Luke 1:31)

"...blessed is the fruit of your womb...mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:42-43)

"His mother Mary..." (Matthew 1:18)

"His mother (Mary)..." (John 19:25)
 
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Moonwood

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You keep bringing up a marriage between a man a a woman who pass the genes between each. If your are married and want a baby, you hire a surrogate, that keeps the male gene traits of the family. But, the Holy Spirit did not do it that way. Put your thinking cap on. The Holy Spirit did the miracle not Mary.

I believe the other poster spoke about genes.
Not me.
I believe Mary is the mother of God.
No gene conversation necessary.

What I said @Rockerduck was "A surrogate mother carries someone else's child. Mary did not carry someone else's child. Jesus received His human nature from Mary. Scripture repeatedly refers to Her as His mother, not as a surrogate or a vessel."

That doesn't deny the Holy Spirit's involvement, nor denies that Jesus is God the Word Incarnate, nor denies that Mary is the mother of Jesus, God the Word Incarnate.
 

Moonwood

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Here's a link to an R.C. site, which claims that Mary is our "Co-redemptrix" and that this assertion comes from the so-called "Magisterium". Needless to say, it's the usual tedious R.C. sophistry.


You'd have to highlight WHERE the CCC states that Mary is a co-redeemer or co-redemptrix.

1. Many Catholics, including myself, use the title Co-Redemptrix for Mary, but the term is often misunderstood. "Co-" comes from the Latin cum ("with"), not "equal to." The title is meant to express Mary's unique cooperation with Christ's saving mission, not equality with Jesus.

2. Supporters point to Mary's free "yes" at the Annunciation (Luke 1:38), Her lifelong cooperation with God's plan, and Her presence at the foot of the Cross as reasons She participated in a unique way in the work of redemption.

3. In this view, Jesus alone is the Redeemer. Mary's role is entirely dependent on Him and subordinate to Him. Advocates argue that "Co-Redemptrix" means She cooperated with the Redeemer, not that She redeemed humanity Herself.

4. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary cooperated in salvation history, but it has never defined "Co-Redemptrix" as a dogma. The Second Vatican Council preferred language about Mary's cooperation while carefully preserving Christ's unique role as Savior.

5. This is one reason the word does not appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Catechism teaches Mary's cooperation and spiritual motherhood, but it does not use the title itself.

6. Another reason is that the title can be misunderstood. Many hear "Co-Redemptrix" and assume it means Mary is an equal partner with Christ in redemption, which is not what its defenders mean.

7. Debate over the title has existed for decades. Some theologians and bishops supported defining it as a Marian dogma, while others argued the term creates confusion and can obscure Christ's unique role.

8. In 2025, the Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith stated that the title Co-Redemptrix is not an appropriate way to describe Mary's participation in salvation because it risks eclipsing the exclusive role of Jesus Christ as Redeemer.

9. The Vatican document reaffirmed that Mary has a unique cooperation in God's plan of salvation, but emphasized that Christ alone is the sole Mediator and Redeemer.

10. So the short answer: Catholics who use the title Co-Redemptrix mean that Mary uniquely cooperated with Christ's saving work. The title is not in the Catechism because the Church has never formally adopted it there, and concerns have long existed that the term can be misunderstood or appear to diminish Christ's unique role as Redeemer.

Personally, I find the title Co-Redemptrix or Co-Redeemer entirely fitting for Mary. The term does not mean that She is equal to Christ, but rather that She cooperated with Him in the work of redemption. Her cooperation began with Her fiat at the Annunciation and continued through Her giving birth to the Savior, raising Him, and remaining faithful at the foot of the Cross. As Simeon prophesied, "and a sword will pierce your own soul also," Mary willingly accepted this suffering in union with Her Son. Because of this unique cooperation in salvation history, I believe the title accurately reflects Her role.

Additionally, in a broader sense, all Christians are called to cooperate in Christ's redemptive work. Through prayer, sacrifice, suffering united to Christ, and acts of charity, we help bring souls closer to God. In that sense, Mary's cooperation is unique and unparalleled, but it is not entirely unlike the way believers are invited to participate in God's plan of salvation.
 

RandyDawson

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I was quoting another member who asked:

"Where in the Word of God is Mary ever referred to as the mother of God? In fact where do we ever read that God has a mother?"

I wasn't asking that question.

I've asked catholics that question before myself.

All they are able to do is point people to their extra biblical writings by other catholics since it's not in the bible.
 
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Moonwood

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I've asked catholics that question before myself.

All they are able to do is point people to their extra biblical writings by other catholics since it's not in the bible.

You don't believe it's in the Bible that Mary is the mother of God?

Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, says to Mary:

"And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

In Luke's Gospel, "Lord" is a divine title:

• Luke 1:17 - "the Lord their God"
• Luke 1:76 - "go before the Lord"
• Luke 2:11 - "Christ the Lord"

Later, the Apostle Thomas says directly to Jesus:

"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)

Elizabeth calls Mary "the mother of my Lord."
Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God."

Thomas makes explicit what Elizabeth had already recognized: the child Mary carried is God the Son incarnate.

That is why Christians call Mary the Mother of God.

The title does not mean Mary created God, existed before God, or is greater than God.

It means the one She bore is truly God in the flesh.

Jesus tells us plainly who His mother is and who His brother, and sister.

Jesus said "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."
(Matthew 12:50)

Yes, but Jesus's only biological mother is Mary of Nazareth:

"You will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus." (Luke 1:31)

"...blessed is the fruit of your womb...mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:42-43)

"His mother Mary..." (Matthew 1:18)

"His mother (Mary)..." (John 19:25)
 
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Fathom

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According to Revelation 12, the accuser (Protestant) has been hurled down and now pursues the woman who brought forth Jesus.

Any denomination that came after the rebellion (Protestant) belongs to the devil.
 

Moonwood

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According to Revelation 12, the accuser (Protestant) has been hurled down and now pursues the woman who brought forth Jesus.

Any denomination that came after the rebellion (Protestant) belongs to the devil.

False—the accuser is Satan himself.

And this is my thread, and I will not allow uncharitable speech toward our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. You are free to disagree with them, but obedience to God comes first. We are commanded to love our neighbor in thought, word, and deed.

Scripture teaches that whoever loves knows God, because God is love (1 John 4:7-8). Condemning entire groups of Christians as belonging to the devil goes beyond disagreeing with doctrine and crosses into judging hearts that belong to God alone.

If you believe someone is in error, correct them with humility, gentleness, and truth. But remember that Christ said the world would know His disciples by their love for one another, not by how harshly they condemn those with whom they disagree.

Let us discuss theology with conviction, but also with the charity and grace that Christ commands of us.
 
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GodsGrace

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Jesus did have a mom, and

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Good morning Randy
It's good we've determined that Jesus had a mother.

Now if we could just figure out whether or not Jesus is God.
If Jesus is God,,and Mary is His mother,,,then Mary must be the mother of God.

It's really that simple.

Maybe the following could be helpful:

1792825833457.png


All three PERSONS of the Trinity are God.
Mary is NOT the mother of the Father.
Mary is NOT the mother of the Holy Spirit.
BUT
Mary IS the mother of the Son.

The above states that the Son is God.

We don't have to fear stating that Mary is the mother of God..
IF
we want to teach that Jesus is God.

We Protestants are in a pickle.
We don't have to be.

Get out of the pickle jar.
 
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GodsGrace

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Jesus did have a mom, and

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Regarding 2 John 1:9
Why are you posting this verse?

Here it is:

2 John 1:9
7I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked so hard to achieve. Be diligent so that you receive your full reward. 9Anyone who wanders away from this teaching has no relationship with God. But anyone who remains in the teaching of Christ has a relationship with both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don’t invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement. 11Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.


The above is referring to a specific heresy that was introduced into the church.
It is called docistism and taught that Jesus did not have a real body.

I would venture to say that everyone on this thread believes Jesus had a real body and is not promoting a long dead heresy.
 

GodsGrace

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No, Christians don't pray to Mary.
Because Jesus and His apostles never did, not did they teach others to.




That document is not derived from the Doctrine of Christ either.
Calvinism is false doctrine too. Sorry.
I'm going to tell you something you are not going to agree with but is true nonetheless.

Both Catholics and Calvinists are Christian.
How would YOU define a Christian?

(besides 2 John 1:9 which you are using incorrectly)
 

GodsGrace

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There quite a few former catholics that say she is.

It doesn't matter what a few former Catholics say.
The CC DOES NOT teach that Mary is to be worshipped.
If some Catholic person wishes to do so,,,that is his prerogative to do so since no one will be entering into either his brain or his home to correct him.

Some Catholics believe that every Protestant is Reformed/calvinist....
does this make it a correct statement?

Let's stay with what the CC actually teaches and not rail against incorrect facts.

All one has to do is read the rosary to know Mary is being worshiped.
The rosary did not come from Jesus or His apostles since it is not found in the bible.
Do you find the hypostatic union explained in the bible?

Let's take a look at the rosary.

The rosay is worshipping Jesus.
It tells the biblical story of Jesus.
If you're interested, I'll be happy to get into more detail.

Why is there a rosary?
For the same reason that we see stained glassed windows in churches in Europe that tell the story of our Lord.

Because people were basically illiterate at the time and could not read and even if they could, only the very rich could own a bible. Do you know why?

The colored windows tell the story of Jesus.
The rosary tells the story of Jesus.

And, it also asks Mary for intercessory prayer,,,which is what the CC teaches.

Listen to it:
Hail Mary
Full of grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb...
Jesus.

Holy Mary
Mother of God
Pray for us, sinners
Now and at the hour of our death.
Amen

Nothing heretical there.

The Our Father is also prayed, BTW.
Also this.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son
and to the Holy Spirit,,,,,
as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be.
Amen.

The glory is given to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit....
Not Mary.
 
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GodsGrace

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I've asked catholics that question before myself.

All they are able to do is point people to their extra biblical writings by other catholics since it's not in the bible.
Not to derail this thread....
but how do you know that Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity?
 

rwb

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Where did I state that I allow the CC to teach me?

Do you not attend a church as we are told to in Hebrews 10?

Yes, I do attend a church. But I've learned from past experiences to test what is taught from the pulpit against the Word of God. I've discovered that church leaders; pastors, preachers, elders/teachers more often than not simply repeat what they have been taught. Because diligent study, comparing Scripture with Scripture takes much prayer, time and thoughtfulness. So, instead of simply accepting what is taught, I compare it with the teachings of God from His written Word. Only then can I be assured that what is being taught does not cause the Word of God to contradict.
 
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GodsGrace

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Yes, I do attend a church. But I've learned from past experiences to test what is taught from the pulpit against the Word of God. I've discovered that church leaders; pastors, preachers, elders/teachers more often than not simply repeat what they have been taught. Because diligent study, comparing Scripture with Scripture takes much prayer, time and thoughtfulness. So, instead of simply accepting what is taught, I compare it with the teachings of God from His written Word. Only then can I be assured that what is being taught does not cause the Word of God to contradict.
I agree.
But I'll only say this:
You and I probably do not agree on something major.
We are both checking with scripture.
How come we don't agree on everything?

I don't expect a reply,,,we'll derail this thread too much.
It's just a thought.
 
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