Why do Catholics…

[Jim B]

A requirement to obey Him is Catholic Bible??????? You crack me up….


Asking a question is not an answer to a question Jimbo. Let’s try again: If you write something that is opposite of what an Apostolic Father wrote, should I believe YOU or THEM?

All you believe is what your priests tell you. That is the basis of the Catholic doctrine. You won't pay any attention to logic or reason. As you yourself wrote, "Asking a question is not an answer to a question". so why should I answer your question?

 

[The Learner]

easter means from the east to the west

someone said all Christian practices are pagan

I’ve never seen a Druid in an Easter bonnet?

I could write a sonnet about you’re Easter bonnet! Love that song!

 

[BreadOfLife]

All you believe is what your priests tell you. That is the basis of the Catholic doctrine. You won't pay any attention to logic or reason. As you yourself wrote, "Asking a question is not an answer to a question". so why should I answer your question?

As usual, this is classic ignorance of Catholic doctrine.
Priests don’t or define doctrine – they teach what has already been established by the Church through Scripture and Tradition.

I don’t believe in ANYTHING just because the Catholic Church teaches it.
I believe what the Catholic Church teaches BECAUSE it is the truth.

As to WHY you didn't answer the question you were asked - it's because you can't . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Palm Sunday has no Pagan origin. But todays easter celebrations are loaded with pagan symbology.

Easter eggs, Rabbits, the name Easter itself (form Ashtarth) Easter bonnets. But once again these in and of themselves are not evil or wrong- unless one places the values the pagans did in these customs.

Looks like somebody’s been reading too many of those wacky Jack Chick comic books . . .
Read a little Church history instead, and you’ll find just how silly and ignorant your claims are.

Easter eggs are a Lenten/Easter Tradition that goes WAY back to the ancient Church. Lent is a time for mortification of the flesh, self-denial and fasting. In the Early Church, they abstained from ALL dairy, including eggs. On Easter morning, they would paint eggs red – the traditional color of the Holy Spirit. This is still practiced in the Easteron Orthodox Churches.

In the movie, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”, there is an Easter scene where the lead actress breaks a red Easter egg with her father. She exclaims, “Christos Anesti!”, and he replies, “Alithos anesti!”
This means, “Christ is risen! Truly, He is risen!”

As for the word, “Easter “– YOUR claim that it is derived from the goddess Ishtar is laughable – and woefully-ignorant. “Easter” is an ENGLISH word. There wasn’t a lot of English spoken in the first century – NOR was there ANT spoken in ancient Sumeria. English is a relatively NEW language on the world stage.

Some linguists point to the idea that Ostern/Easter is most likely derived from "erstehen", which is the old Teutonic form of "auferstehen/auferstehung" meaning "resurrection".

According to one scholarly linguistic source -
"More recent studies seem to indicate that Easter may be derived from the Latin phrase "hebdomada alba", the old term for Easter week based upon the wearing of white robes by the newly baptized. The octave of Easter, the following week, was known as "post albas", the time when the white robes were put away....Easter may thus mean "white" and be named from early Christian baptismal practices." {"Easter", The Dictionary of Bible and Religion, (Nashville, TN: Abingdon, 1986) 287}

I all of the Latin and Middleeastern languages - the word sounds NOTHING like "Easter".
So, IF Easter is derived from Eostra/Ostara, that would only prove a pagan influence on Christians who spoke Germanic tongues. NOT all Christians call the Feast of the Resurrection "Easter". Byzantine Christians use the Greek term "Pascha", a transliteration of the Hebrew word "Pesach", or Passover. "Pascha" is also the name of this feast in Latin, the official language of the Roman Rite. The Romance languages reflect this usage; the Italian word "Pasqua", the French "Paques" and the Spanish "Pascua" each derive from "Pascha", and ultimately from "Pesach".

So – do some homework before posting these false claims .

 

[Illuminator]

All you believe is what your priests tell you.

Priests spend about 7 years in study and spiritual formation before ordination. They are qualified to teach. The right for laymen to question priests/bishops is protected by canon law. You give more power to priests than Catholics do.

That is the basis of the Catholic doctrine.

No, the basis of Catholic doctrine is Jesus Christ, but you refuse to look. The basis of anti-Catholicism is fear, ignorance, prejudice, dysfunctional families and mental illness. You need to tell your doctor how you feel about the Catholic Church, he has medications to help your psychosis.

You won't pay any attention to logic or reason.

Unlike your system, Catholicism teaches the compatibility OF FAITH AND REASON.

Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).
​

@Marymog:

Let’s try again: If you write something that is opposite of what an Apostolic Father wrote, should I believe YOU or THEM?

Radical anti-Catholics like Jim B can't trace their opinions and innovations to the early church, thus they are forced to ignore or dismiss the writings of the Early Church Fathers as meaningless.

So the term “Father of the Church” finally came to refer to important Christian writers after the New Testament era who, because of closeness to that era, witness to the authentically apostolic way of interpreting the Scriptures handed on to them by the Catholic Tradition. These writers played an irreplaceable and unrepeatable role in transmitting Christian doctrine and bringing it to mature expression, at least in its most fundamental features. While the Church’s understanding of revelation will continue to deepen until the Lord returns, the dogmas of the Trinity and the Incarnation, which stand at the center of the “Hierarchy of Truths” (UR 11), were defined once and for all during the period of the Fathers (a.k.a. the patristic era). It is significant that the age of the Early Church Fathers, commonly regarded as closing with St. John Damascene (d. 749), is roughly co-terminus with the period of the first seven great Ecumenical Councils which defined these two central mysteries of the faith and drew out their most important implications. No Catholic teacher after this time, no matter how stellar, is reckoned among the Church Fathers.​

Early Church Fathers Overview: Snapshot of the Fathers

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As for the word, “Easter “– YOUR claim that it is derived from the goddess Ishtar is laughable – and woefully-ignorant. “Easter” is an ENGLISH word. There wasn’t a lot of English spoken in the first century – NOR was there ANT spoken in ancient Sumeria. English is a relatively NEW language on the world stage.

Layghable but still true. And th eold pagan traditions of eggs on teh spring solstice outdates your claims.

Easter is the anglicized word for Ishtar which also derives Oserah ( I think I butchered that spelling) You just deny that pagans greatly influenced the pre RC church after Constantine ended the persecution and made Christianity trhe unoffical preferred religion.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

According to one scholarly linguistic source -
"More recent studies seem to indicate that Easter may be derived from the Latin phrase "hebdomada alba", the old term for Easter week based upon the wearing of white robes by the newly baptized. The octave of Easter, the following week, was known as "post albas", the time when the white robes were put away....Easter may thus mean "white" and be named from early Christian baptismal practices." {"Easter", The Dictionary of Bible and Religion, (Nashville, TN: Abingdon, 1986) 287}

Now you sound like the phony scientists who believe in evolution! "Seems like" Could be, might suggest, maybe potentially etc.etc and all the other guessing words.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Now you sound like the phony scientists who believe in evolution! "Seems like" Could be, might suggest, maybe potentially etc.etc and all the other guessing words.

Face it, ron - you didnt do your homework.

The Easter/Ishtar nonsense is an opinion - and an uneducated on at that.
The Easater Egg/Feertility goddess rubbish is ALSO an opinion and an uneducated guess, at best.
Anyway, to blast yet another gaping hole in your theory - "Ishtar" was originally named, "Innana" in Sumer, where the worship of this goddess originated. Sooooo, why isn't Easter called, "Innanna"??

The facts are the facts regarding the ancient Christian practice of abstaining froom eggs and dairy during Lent. As I educated you in my last post - the Orthodox Churches still carry on the tradition of painting the eggs RED, the traditional color of the Holy Spirit. This is ALSO why prieslylt vestments are RED at Pentecost.

One other tradition that still lives on pertating to this in the Catholic Church is the Shhrove Tuesday Dinner - complete with pancakes.
They made pancakes to use up all of the eggs and dairy before the start of Lent.
Out parish holds an annual Shrove Tuesday Dinner every yearto commemorate this.

So, YOUR fantasy about "fertility goddesses" and egss simplky doesn't hold water with the educated hisatorian . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Now you sound like the phony scientists who believe in evolution! "Seems like" Could be, might suggest, maybe potentially etc.etc and all the other guessing words.

These are the quotes of educated phililogists and linguists - people whoose expertise in languages FAR exceeds your own.

They posit these other theories - NOT off the top of theuiir heads, but based on the languages of the past and the histprical context they represent. They've heard ALL of the nonsensical "Ishtar/Easter" manure from uneducated amateurs like YOU and shrugged them off.

 

[Illuminator]

Now you sound like the phony scientists who believe in evolution! "Seems like" Could be, might suggest, maybe potentially etc.etc and all the other guessing words.

Easter, Latin Pascha, Greek Pascha, principal festival of the Christian church, which celebrates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his Crucifixion. The earliest recorded observance of an Easter celebration comes from the 2nd century, though the commemoration of Jesus’ Resurrection probably occurred earlier.

The English word Easter, which parallels the German word Ostern, is of uncertain origin. One view, expounded by the Venerable Bede in the 8th century, was that it derived from Eostre, or Eostrae, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and fertility. This view presumes—as does the view associating the origin of Christmas on December 25 with pagan celebrations of the winter solstice—that Christians appropriated pagan names and holidays for their highest festivals. Given the determination with which Christians combated all forms of paganism (the belief in multiple deities), this appears a rather dubious presumption. There is now widespread consensus that the word derives from the Christian designation of Easter week as in albis, a Latin phrase that was understood as the plural of alba (“dawn”) and became eostarum in Old High German, the precursor of the modern German and English term. The Latin and Greek Pascha (“Passover”) provides the root for Pâques, the French word for Easter.
Easter | Origin, History, Name, Facts, & Dates

 

[Illuminator]

A Profile in Integrity: Ralph Woodrow

There is nothing more refreshing than to encounter genuine integrity, and this is what I find in Ralph Woodrow, the Christian author of a big selling book that he took out of print for reasons of conscience — who then wrote another book refuting this first one.

Woodrow’s Babylon Mystery Religion (first published in 1966) was based on the findings in Alexander Hislop’s old book The Two Babylons (originally published in 1853), which detailed ways in which he said Roman Catholicism borrowed from pagan religion. The Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association’s income from sales of the book exceeded all other book sales and offerings put together, and he was hailed as an authority on the subject of the pagan origins of Roman Catholic practices.

All seemed well until a high school teacher informed him that much of the research in Hislop’s old book was unreliable. This was no challenge from denominational authorities or eminent scholars. There was no public pressure — just some information from a high school teacher.

Woodrow did not react defensively as most authors of big selling books would. Instead, he painstakingly investigated the matter and found the teacher was right. Though there were elements of truth in Hislop’s book, much of the supposed scholarship was based on mere myth and legend, and there were some weaknesses in Hislop’s logic.
read more here: A Profile in Integrity: Ralph Woodrow - Apologetics Index
(a Protestant source, so @ can't complain of a bias)

further reading: Is Catholicism Pagan?

 

[The Learner]

A Profile in Integrity: Ralph Woodrow

There is nothing more refreshing than to encounter genuine integrity, and this is what I find in Ralph Woodrow, the Christian author of a big selling book that he took out of print for reasons of conscience — who then wrote another book refuting this first one.

Woodrow’s Babylon Mystery Religion (first published in 1966) was based on the findings in Alexander Hislop’s old book The Two Babylons (originally published in 1853), which detailed ways in which he said Roman Catholicism borrowed from pagan religion. The Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association’s income from sales of the book exceeded all other book sales and offerings put together, and he was hailed as an authority on the subject of the pagan origins of Roman Catholic practices.

All seemed well until a high school teacher informed him that much of the research in Hislop’s old book was unreliable. This was no challenge from denominational authorities or eminent scholars. There was no public pressure — just some information from a high school teacher.

Woodrow did not react defensively as most authors of big selling books would. Instead, he painstakingly investigated the matter and found the teacher was right. Though there were elements of truth in Hislop’s book, much of the supposed scholarship was based on mere myth and legend, and there were some weaknesses in Hislop’s logic.
read more here: A Profile in Integrity: Ralph Woodrow - Apologetics Index
(a Protestant source, so @ can't complain of a bias)

further reading: Is Catholicism Pagan?

The Babylon Connection?
By Ralph Woodrow · 1997
Woodrow grew up and rejected the nonsense, thus refutes it in the abobve book.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Face it, ron - you didnt do your homework.

The Easter/Ishtar nonsense is an opinion - and an uneducated on at that.
The Easater Egg/Feertility goddess rubbish is ALSO an opinion and an uneducated guess, at best.
Anyway, to blast yet another gaping hole in your theory - "Ishtar" was originally named, "Innana" in Sumer, where the worship of this goddess originated. Sooooo, why isn't Easter called, "Innanna"??

The facts are the facts regarding the ancient Christian practice of abstaining froom eggs and dairy during Lent. As I educated you in my last post - the Orthodox Churches still carry on the tradition of painting the eggs RED, the traditional color of the Holy Spirit. This is ALSO why prieslylt vestments are RED at Pentecost.

One other tradition that still lives on pertating to this in the Catholic Church is the Shhrove Tuesday Dinner - complete with pancakes.
They made pancakes to use up all of the eggs and dairy before the start of Lent.
Out parish holds an annual Shrove Tuesday Dinner every yearto commemorate this.

So, YOUR fantasy about "fertility goddesses" and egss simplky doesn't hold water with the educated hisatorian . . .

Face it bread, I did my homework.
Ishtar to easter can be shown etymologically.

Well I will take what you call "uneducated guesses" from christian scholars over your complaints everyday.

Well if your facts sare facts, I await you showing me the history that supports your claims.

And I never said churches did not "christianize" pagan concepts introduced into the church. But the origins were pagan.

And the reason why it isn't a derivation of Innana is because sumer did not hold sway over Israel or the church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

These are the quotes of educated phililogists and linguists - people whoose expertise in languages FAR exceeds your own.

They posit these other theories - NOT off the top of theuiir heads, but based on the languages of the past and the histprical context they represent. They've heard ALL of the nonsensical "Ishtar/Easter" manure from uneducated amateurs like YOU and shrugged them off.

Well show them for us. Let us hewar names and cite references.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Easter, Latin Pascha, Greek Pascha, principal festival of the Christian church, which celebrates the Resurrection of Jesus Christ on the third day after his Crucifixion. The earliest recorded observance of an Easter celebration comes from the 2nd century, though the commemoration of Jesus’ Resurrection probably occurred earlier.

The English word Easter, which parallels the German word Ostern, is of uncertain origin. One view, expounded by the Venerable Bede in the 8th century, was that it derived from Eostre, or Eostrae, the Anglo-Saxon goddess of spring and fertility. This view presumes—as does the view associating the origin of Christmas on December 25 with pagan celebrations of the winter solstice—that Christians appropriated pagan names and holidays for their highest festivals. Given the determination with which Christians combated all forms of paganism (the belief in multiple deities), this appears a rather dubious presumption. There is now widespread consensus that the word derives from the Christian designation of Easter week as in albis, a Latin phrase that was understood as the plural of alba (“dawn”) and became eostarum in Old High German, the precursor of the modern German and English term. The Latin and Greek Pascha (“Passover”) provides the root for Pâques, the French word for Easter.
Easter | Origin, History, Name, Facts, & Dates

Granted a wide "consensus" is that Easter derives from a Germanic name. but the festivities of easter are derived from Ishtar worship and ashtoreth worship. And consensus is not fact, but an agreement, a powerful one but not empirical fact.

It is well known in BC times rabbits and eggs were symbols of fertility and the vernal equinox was the height of these festivals.

The early churches tended against paganism, but ini teh 2nd century they had to fight the infiltration of Grecian philosophy and by the time of Constantine had "christianized" many pagan things. Especially later on.

 

[The Learner]

Face it bread, I did my homework.
Ishtar to easter can be shown etymologically.

Ronald it looks like you are the one.

Trying to bring some humor into the discussion.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well show them for us. Let us hewar names and cite references.

As I told you before - the Ishtar/Easter fallacy is idiotic on its face.

English is a relativy NEW language on the wporld scene and was NOT in use in the first century.
In almosr EVERY other language, Easter is referred to similarly - and it doesn't sound ANYTHING like Ishtar OR Easter.

Byzantine Christians use the Greek term "Pascha", a transliteration of the Hebrew word "Pesach", or Passover. "Pascha" is also the name of this feast in Latin, the official language of the Roman Rite. The Romance languages reflect this usage; the Italian word "Pasqua", the French "Paques" and the Spanish "Pascua" each derive from "Pascha", and ultimately from "Pesach".
ALL of these languages PREDATE English,Eeinstein.

Here's an article you might want to take a look at from christianytoday.com:
Was Easter Borrowed from a Pagan Holiday?

However - if you want to persist in believing your idiotic fallacies - that's on YOU . . .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As I told you before - the Ishtar/Easter fallacy is idiotic on its face.

English is a relativy NEW language on the wporld scene and was NOT in use in the first century.
In almosr EVERY other language, Easter is referred to similarly - and it doesn't sound ANYTHING like Ishtar OR Easter.

Byzantine Christians use the Greek term "Pascha", a transliteration of the Hebrew word "Pesach", or Passover. "Pascha" is also the name of this feast in Latin, the official language of the Roman Rite. The Romance languages reflect this usage; the Italian word "Pasqua", the French "Paques" and the Spanish "Pascua" each derive from "Pascha", and ultimately from "Pesach".
ALL of these languages PREDATE English,Eeinstein.

Here's an article you might want to take a look at from christianytoday.com:
Was Easter Borrowed from a Pagan Holiday?

However - if you want to persist in believing your idiotic fallacies - that's on YOU . . .

Well let me end the deceptive ruse. I apologize for the deception.

I knew that the Ishtar-Easter connection was dubious at best. But it served it purpose in that it came from a pagan celebration and that teh common symbols of rabbits and eggs are pagan in origin. Granted, they were "Christianized" byt eh church, but their origins, just like so many of the trappings of Christmas are all rooted in pagan origins.

I appreciate the fact that more and more bible believing churches celebrate Resurrections Sunday now instead of Easter.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well let me end the deceptive ruse. I apologize for the deception.

I knew that the Ishtar-Easter connection was dubious at best. But it served it purpose in that it came from a pagan celebration and that teh common symbols of rabbits and eggs are pagan in origin. Granted, they were "Christianized" byt eh church, but their origins, just like so many of the trappings of Christmas are all rooted in pagan origins.

I appreciate the fact that more and more bible believing churches celebrate Resurrections Sunday now instead of Easter.

The original “Bible-believing” Church – the Catholic Church, still calls it “Easter”, as the Early Church did, because it has NOTHING to do with paganism. As I explained to you before, the word “Easter” has more to do with the old Teutonic word for “Resurrection” (auferstehen).

And whereas, rabbits may indeed have a pagan origin – Easter eggs do NOT, as I have also explained to you a few times now. They have a Lenten significance that goes back to the ancient Church.

I applaud your concession that the Ishtar/Easter argument doesn’t hold water – but I’m still puzzled as to why you’re so willing to accept other historical lies surrounding Easter instead of the truth from Church history.

 

[Illuminator]

Well let me end the deceptive ruse. I apologize for the deception.

I knew that the Ishtar-Easter connection was dubious at best. But it served it purpose in that it came from a pagan celebration and that teh common symbols of rabbits and eggs are pagan in origin. Granted, they were "Christianized" byt eh church, but their origins, just like so many of the trappings of Christmas are all rooted in pagan origins.

Wedding rings and days of the week are of pagan origins, but that doesn't prove we view them as an endorsement of paganism. The pagan meaning of these customary things are long lost; they don't mean anything in today's world.
The Pagan Influence Fallacy was spearheaded by A. Hyslop's book "The Two Babylons" in the latter half of the 18th century, and influenced the Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, some fundamentalist and evangelical groups. I wouldn't trust a "theologian" who claims a cross is a satanic symbol.

I appreciate the fact that more and more bible believing churches celebrate Resurrections Sunday now instead of Easter.