Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

[theefaith]

I don't understand. Please explain in your own words.

mary is the mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Found our salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38

 

[theefaith]

SO According to you, how do you become born again?

 

[Pearl]

name one!

We have been naming them on this as well as on other similar threads but there's none so blind as those who will not see. Once a Catholic always a Catholic.

Doesn't ever occur to the Catholic people on this site that they are the only ones who have a different gospel but that all the rest of us from our different backgrounds agree on the main issues of Christianity.

 

[Pearl]

mary is the mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Found our salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38

I doesn't say that. Your clergy way back have put a false translation on those verses to make them say that. But its okay tf, I hope one day the true truth will be revealed to you.

 

[Cassandra]

Not according to the Bible . . .
James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and PRAY FOR ONE ANOTHER, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Rev. 5:8
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Asking a member of the Body of Christ here on earth to pray for you is NO different than asking a member of that SMAE Body in Heaven to pray for you.
Tell me - when did you kick those in Heaven OUT of the Body of Christ?

The prayers of the saints are the prayers of those here who love the Lord, and are praising, thanking, and petitioning Him. Why would the saints have to pray to God if they are with Him?

 

[Pearl]

The prayers of the saints are the prayers of those here who love the Lord, and are praising, thanking, and petitioning Him. Why would the saints have to pray to God if they are with Him?

Hello Cassandra from one saint to another. Be blessed.

 

[theefaith]

We have been naming them on this as well as on other similar threads but there's none so blind as those who will not see. Once a Catholic always a Catholic.

Doesn't ever occur to the Catholic people on this site that they are the only ones who have a different gospel but that all the rest of us from our different backgrounds agree on the main issues of Christianity.

it is a different gospel but we were first, you're 16th century gospel is the one without merit or authority from God!

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come (16th cent.) when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2 John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hathrighteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

or what hath the true church to do with heretics???

 

[theefaith]

I doesn't say that. Your clergy way back have put a false translation on those verses to make them say that. But its okay tf, I hope one day the true truth will be revealed to you.

Truth is revealed by Christ Jn 1:16-17 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and proposed for belief by holy mother church. Matt 28:19-20

 

[Pearl]

it is a different gospel but we were first, you're 16th century gospel is the one without merit or authority from God!

I don't really know what you mean about being 'first' or about the 16th century stuff. My beliefs go back to Pentecost when the church really came into being. I am not a protestant - whatever that is - I am a follower of Jesus, a modern day disciple who does not follow the traditions of men but the Master himself.

 

[Pearl]

Truth is revealed by Christ Jn 1:16-17 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and proposed for belief by holy mother church. Matt 28:19-20

Sorry I will never belief Catholic interpretation of scriptures.

or what hath the true church to do with heretics???

Who are the heretics? Is it anybody who does not agree with Catholicism?

 

[theefaith]

I don't really know what you mean about being 'first' or about the 16th century stuff. My beliefs go back to Pentecost when the church really came into being. I am not a protestant - whatever that is - I am a follower of Jesus, a modern day disciple who does not follow the traditions of men but the Master himself.

there is no such thing as a personal covenant or personal relationship with Christ, but the communion of saints baptized into Christ and his church subject to Christ and in His absence (He ascended to heaven) His appointed and authorized ministers with the price and head of the apostles being peter and His valid successors along with the apostles and their valid successors!

Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19-20 Lk 10:16
Jn 10:16 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 & 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[Pearl]

there is no such thing as a personal covenant or personal relationship with Christ, but the communion of saints baptized into Christ and his church subject to Christ and in His absence (He ascended to heaven) His appointed and authorized ministers with the price and head of the apostles being peter and His valid successors along with the apostles and their valid successors!

Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19-20 Lk 10:16
Jn 10:16 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20 & 4:5 Jude 1:3

So you have been taught but it isn't what your church teaches that is important it is what God tells us.

 

[theefaith]

Sorry I will never belief Catholic interpretation of scriptures.


Who are the heretics? Is it anybody who does not agree with Catholicism?

yes
For Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
And cos the truth revealed by Christ is committed to the church for defending and teaching all nations. Matt 28:19-20 Jude 1:3

Propagation of the faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 without error Jn 16:13 is the duty of holy mother church to secure the salvation of souls!

 

[theefaith]

Sorry I will never belief Catholic interpretation of scriptures.

The church wrote the New Testament:
The church existed / exercised lawful authority before the New Testament:
The church alone has authority from Christ to teach all nations matt 28:19-20 and say what is scripture and to interpret scripture!

 

[theefaith]

So you have been taught but it isn't what your church teaches that is important it is what God tells us.

Only the church can say what is God’s revealed truth!

do you read any of the verses I send you?

Truth!

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

 

[theefaith]

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)

 

[Pearl]

yes
For Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
And cos the truth revealed by Christ is committed to the church for defending and teaching all nations. Matt 28:19-20 Jude 1:3

Propagation of the faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 without error Jn 16:13 is the duty of holy mother church to secure the salvation of souls!

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend you or anybody else in any way but you really need to see that you are mistaken in your beliefs. Yes Jesus is the head of the Church but the Church of Christ encompasses all those who love him.
And do you think the Holy Spirit is limited to work only in what Catholics see as The One True Church?
1 Thessalonians 5:19
Do not quench the Spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The prayers of the saints are the prayers of those here who love the Lord, and are praising, thanking, and petitioning Him. Why would the saints have to pray to God if they are with Him?

Time for a Language Lesson . . .

Definition of the word “PRAY”:
Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray

transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

The primary definition of "Pray" simple means to "ASK".
We petition our brothers and sisters in Heaven to ASK God on our behalf - just as we would a brother or sister here on earth because ther are part of the Body of Christ.

Rev. 5:8 shows the Elders in Heaven taking our prayers to God.

 

[Illuminator]

I'm sorry, and I don't mean to offend you or anybody else in any way but you really need to see that you are mistaken in your beliefs. Yes Jesus is the head of the Church but the Church of Christ encompasses all those who love him.
And do you think the Holy Spirit is limited to work only in what Catholics see as The One True Church?

No. Catholics are instructed to recognize all who are baptized in Christ as Christians. The One True Church does not rule out the truths taught in other churches. The One True Church does not mean it is the only church with truths.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:
Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame." 269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism 270 - do not occur without human sin

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers. 271​

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." 272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" 273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." 274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, 275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity." 276

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time." Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me." The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Pearl]

Sorry @Illuminator - I agree there is only One True Church but our definitions differ.

Which church—that is, which denomination of Christianity—is the “true church”? Which church is the one that God loves and cherishes and died for? Which church is His bride? The answer is that no visible church or denomination is the true church, because the bride of Christ is not an institution, but is instead a spiritual entity made up of those who have by grace through faith been brought into a close, intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8–9). Those people, no matter which building, denomination, or country they happen to be in, constitute the true church.