Why, do people go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers?

[bro.tan]

Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories.People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth.When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Did you know that there is three heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:) The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories.People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth.When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Did you know that there is three heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:) The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Heaven is perfect. What's up there is all good, there is no evil, not even thoughts or visions of evil.

"To be absent the body is to be present with the Lord." When a Christian dies, he/she goes to be with the Lord in heaven. We are saved right now. We are in the kingdom of heaven right now. So we don't have to wait. To think we go out of existence then come back at a later time,× is not what the above scripture says. Dying does not disconnect us from that spiritual reality. Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. John 11:25 Your body dies, not your soul/ spirit. You are fully conscious at the moment of death.

Back to the first sentence; if all is good up there, why would people want to look down on an evil, corrupt world even to see how you were doing? They know how bad it is down here, a profound contrast from heaven. You wouldn't want to subject yourself to darkness. Evil is not present up there and so in my opinion, I do not think Jesus allows people to observe all what's going on down here.
I think people talk to the grave as if there is a channel to heaven, like a hidden microphone, with an invisible cord and speakers in heaven. We pray and can speak directly to God/ Jesus. I often ask Jesus to say hi to my family - that's all. He relays the message. So if people do pray to God while at a person's grave and then start talking to their loved ones, why wouldn't Jesus relay a good loving message to them? But if it was sad, involved tears, apologies - they really don't need that. Jesus wipes away our tears. When does that happen? When we get there and find out someone did not make it. But beyond that, there will be no more tears. Are people up there praying for us?
Don't need to, they can have direct communication with God. I suppose they would ask how a person is doing.

 

[Jericho]

Why, do people go to grave talking to dirt and statutes, buying flowers?

The same reason why people have funerals. It's for their benefit, not the dead. It's their way to remember them and honor their memory.

 

[Taken]

Preachers are miss leading people into believing fantasy stories.People believing that they love ones are looking down on them smiling, with all this hell going on in earth.When a person dies, does he or she have any consciousness? Does a puff of smoke leave their body and go flying off into the third heaven? Did you know that there is three heaven? Do you really believe your love ones looking down at you from heaven, smiling. Or do they just float around the earth hunting houses, jumping from behind trees scaring people? If you have a logical bone in your body you know that is sheer nonsense. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true" (John 8:17). We will quote testimonies from the Prophets and the Apostle.

Who gave them the word? (Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.) They received the law by the disposition of angels.

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:) The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Our first witness is Solomon. He is very wise, as a matter of fact he was wiser than any man that walked the earth, except for Jesus of course. Why? I Kings 3:28 And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment. I Kings 4:1 So king Solomon was king over all Israel. He had the wisdom of God.

Let' see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

 

[bro.tan]

Heaven is perfect. What's up there is all good, there is no evil, not even thoughts or visions of evil.

"To be absent the body is to be present with the Lord." When a Christian dies, he/she goes to be with the Lord in heaven. We are saved right now. We are in the kingdom of heaven right now. So we don't have to wait. To think we go out of existence then come back at a later time,× is not what the above scripture says. Dying does not disconnect us from that spiritual reality. Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. John 11:25 Your body dies, not your soul/ spirit. You are fully conscious at the moment of death.

Back to the first sentence; if all is good up there, why would people want to look down on an evil, corrupt world even to see how you were doing? They know how bad it is down here, a profound contrast from heaven. You wouldn't want to subject yourself to darkness. Evil is not present up there and so in my opinion, I do not think Jesus allows people to observe all what's going on down here.
I think people talk to the grave as if there is a channel to heaven, like a hidden microphone, with an invisible cord and speakers in heaven. We pray and can speak directly to God/ Jesus. I often ask Jesus to say hi to my family - that's all. He relays the message. So if people do pray to God while at a person's grave and then start talking to their loved ones, why wouldn't Jesus relay a good loving message to them? But if it was sad, involved tears, apologies - they really don't need that. Jesus wipes away our tears. When does that happen? When we get there and find out someone did not make it. But beyond that, there will be no more tears. Are people up there praying for us?
Don't need to, they can have direct communication with God. I suppose they would ask how a person is doing.

But Solomon says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave, not in heaven. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

 

[bro.tan]

Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page. Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath.

David clarifies this even further in the 88th Psalm. Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. 11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? 12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

What did he call the grave? The land of forgetfulness. So far the Bible is consistent.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But Solomon says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave, not in heaven. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

The afterlife was blurry to the Jews and it still is. Apply that verse to the faithless, dead in Christ and it is absolutley true. Those in Hades suffer that fate. But the living _ in Christ _ never die.
Jesus came and enlightened us, gave us more clarity about life and death. There is lots of wisdom in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes about living. Solomon really does not teach us about Hades or Heaven. His wisdom was gained experiencially and it's practical. That wisdom helps us along, saves us lots of pain and agony from failures and going the wrong way.
By reading the New Testament, the veil of the Old is lifted.

 

[soberxp]

The afterlife was blurry to the Jews and it still is. Apply that verse to the faithless, dead in Christ and it is absolutley true. Those in Hades suffer that fate. But the living _ in Christ _ never die.
Jesus came and enlightened us, gave us more clarity about life and death. There is lots of wisdom in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes about living. Solomon really does not teach us about Hades or Heaven. His wisdom was gained experiencially and it's practical. That wisdom helps us along, saves us lotsnif pain and agony from failures, goingnthe wrong way.
By reading the New Testament, the veil of the Old is lifted.

Do you believe the claim that aliens are immortal?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

David clarifies this even further in the 88th Psalm. Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. 11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? 12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Knowledge of God will be forgotten in Hades, his goodness, his love. Unfaithful, godless people who die kniw nothing but suffering and torment.
.
I'll try to educate you, but I still think it's a futile task. I have done exhaustive studies on topics of Hell, Hades, the Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, I wrote a book called "Hell... If I Know" and so will share a few insightful pages from it.

[Unbelieving souls go to Hades (the underworld, but separate from Tartarus, where the demons are) and await their final judgment. At that time, they are resurrected to experience their final judgment. Which is what, to go back to Hades or deeper into the Abyss/Bottonless Pit? No, to be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is Hell.
Death and Hades are on Judgment Day, thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed. This event also includes the 1st Heavens ( atmosphere snd universe) and 1st Earth and described in 2 Peter 3:10.
Hades is the holding place, a prison. It is much deeper than 6 feet! The second death is ultimate destruction. There cannot be an eternal state of indestructible destructuon or imperishanle perishing. Destruction means to put an end to. As we see bodies cremated in minutes - that is what fire does. Fear God can and will destroy both body and soul.

Some of the ideas about Hell came from Gehenna, The Valley of Hinnom, a deep ravine south of Jerusalem. This is where the Cannanites used to sacrifice and burn humans to Molech, a false god. Later, it became a perpetual burning dump for dead and diseased animals. Symbolically and physically, Gehenna gave the Jews a perspective of Hell. Jesus even cursed the Pharisees to the Gehenna (Matthew 23:33 YLT). So it was a shadow representation of the final Gehenna ON EARTH.
SHEOL comes from the word "shaol", which means to ask, demand or require. So Hades (and Satan) therefore is hungry and unsatisfied, asking, demanding and requiring souls. Satans drawing power tempts souls to, "Come to Daddy!" The lost store up wrath and sin pulling them closer to their destiny. Fortunately, God has a strong drawing power of Grace to thwart Satan's and our actions.
You have to ask, what satisfaction and sense of accomplishment would Satan get from just tempting people to just enter into a soul sleep and then at the end just get to be resurrected and thrown into a fire for a minute of conscious pain? Unless of course hell was eternal, then he would have their company.
Here are some verses that refute soul sleep:
In Job 10:21-22, The "land of darkness and deep shadow" is not a description of a grave.
In Job 11:7-8, The "depths of God" are compared to the depths of Sheol - obviously deeper than 6 feet.
In Job 26:5-6, Hades also means hidden and unseen from us. The description of departed spirits " trembling under the waters" suggests under the crust of the earth's aquifers. "Abaddon has no covering". Abaddon is the angel of the Abyss, the destroyer released during the Apocalypse (Rev. 9:11). So we can see that Abaddon is not in a burial grave or tomb with the bones of a dead person!!!
Job 38:17 "Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?"
This reveals that death is a doorway, it has gates. Jesus made a reference to the gates of Hades in (Matthew 16:18)
In Deuteronomy 32:22, A "fire is kindled" in God's anger "and burns to the "
lowest part of Sheol and consumes the earth with its yield and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains". This is a key verse that actually describes a super volcanic eruption that will take place in the end.
" Do not hold back discipline from the child, although you strike him with a rod, he will not die. You shall stike him with a rod and RESCUE his soul from SHEOL." Proverbs 24:13-14 Now obviously discipline does not save us from physical death and the grave. No, this is talking about saving the child's soul from Sheol.
Jonah 2: 1-7 describes Jonah crying out from the "depth of Sheol". The belly of the whale was not a grave. No, Jonah died and cried out to God. "Water encompassed me to the point of death ... I descended to the roots of the mountains, the earth with its bars (gates) was around me forever, but You have brought up my life FROM THE PIT, O LORD my God."
Luke 16:23-31 is not a parable! Parables don't mension names of real people, like Abraham. What moral truth could be gained from describing a place that does not exist? Parables don't describe fictional, abstract territories.
2 Peter 2:4-6 "For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell ( Tartarus, Abyss, Bottomless Pit, the deepest part of the underworld) and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
Matthew11:23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
This is not referring to the grave, everyone has gone to the grave who died or has been cremated. This is a distinct judgment of a particular city that denied Christ.
Ezekiel 26:20-21 Here again, the lower parts of the earth, " the pit" are mentioned. God says, " I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth ... I will bring terrors on you ..." Does that sound like sleeping in the grave?
Ezekiel 32:24 is a prophecy. During the Great Tribulation, inhabitants_ on the earth _ when it splits opens _ will fall into these fissures, the pit, and some will try to climb out in terror and be snared.
Psalm 140:10 " burning coals fall on them ... cast into fire into deep pits from which they cannot arise."] Various snippets taken from " Hell ... If I Know", By Ronald D. Bruno

You'd have to distort the above scriptures, symbolically misinterpret them to conform to your beliefs. Go ahead, but peddling your false doctrines won't convince the overrwhelming majority of Christians.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Do you believe the claim that aliens are immortal?

It's interesting that you ask that ... a trick question maybe? Of course I do not believe in aliens from another planet; BUT the Bible says those who are born again followers of Christ ARE ALIENS OF THIS WORLD.
1 Peter 2:11 "Beloved, I exhort you as aliens (paroikous) and sojourners ..."

We are saved now, so we have entered into His eternal Kingdom. We haven't received our eternal bodies yet, but spiritually we have put on immortality.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It's interesting that you ask that ... a trick question maybe? Of course I do not believe in aliens from another planet; BUT the Bible says those who are born again followers of Christ ARE ALIENS OF THIS WORLD.
1 Peter 2:11 "Beloved, I exhort you as aliens (paroikous) and sojourners ..."

We are saved now, so we have entered into His eternal Kingdom. We haven't received our eternal bodies yet, but spiritually we have put on immortality.

Laughing... you must not be sober or just trolling?

 

[soberxp]

Laughing... you must not be sober or just trolling?

I'm really asking you about aliens, not humans or spiritual beings.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I'm really asking you about aliens, not humans or spiritual beings.

People have claimed to have seen UFOs, maybe even aliens. I don't believe they exist. They might have seen angels moving at lightning speed and taking sharp turns that break the.laws of physics ( because spiritual beings are not confined to the laws of physics) or just hallucinations from doing too many drugs or several other explanations ...
If you are one of those who have been decided by the notion, I suggest watching this movie on Youtube:
The UFO Movie THEY Don't Want You to See (2023), directed by Brian Dunning. It is a documentary that aims to deconstruct, dismantle, and negate the popular narratives surrounding UFOs (now UAPs) and alien visitation.

 

[bro.tan]

The afterlife was blurry to the Jews and it still is. Apply that verse to the faithless, dead in Christ and it is absolutley true. Those in Hades suffer that fate. But the living _ in Christ _ never die.
Jesus came and enlightened us, gave us more clarity about life and death. There is lots of wisdom in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes about living. Solomon really does not teach us about Hades or Heaven. His wisdom was gained experiencially and it's practical. That wisdom helps us along, saves us lotsnif pain and agony from failures, goingnthe wrong way.
By reading the New Testament, the veil of the Old is lifted.

The Bible talks about two death and two resurrection, while some time they may intertwine with each other and become confusing if one not understand the scriptures. But so far I've been speaking on the first death. Paul says in Romans 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm. Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Bible talks about two death and two resurrection, while some time they may intertwine with each other and become confusing if one not understand the scriptures. But so far I've been speaking on the first death. Paul says in Romans 5: 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm. Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Please read post #9 ... or you did just cannot challenge it.
"Pslam 6:5 is not a theological statement on the state of the dead, but a desperate plea for God to spare the psalmist's life so he may continue to glorify Him." John MacArthur

Psalm 115:17 - There are souls in heaven praising the Lord. Those in Hades forget the Lord and all that is good - they are dead spiritually.
We're done! Bye.

 

[talons]

We would have dinner on the ground , memories .

Decoration Day - Encyclopedia of Alabama

Decoration Day is an annual observance at many privately owned southern graveyards during which families gather to clean up the graveyard, reconnect with family, and honor the memories of their ancestors. In Alabama, this tradition is generally strongest among rural white communities in the...

encyclopediaofalabama.org

 

[PS95]

But Solomon says in Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave, not in heaven. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Hello. To address your OP - Personally, I have never once heard any pastor teach that deceased are overlooking the lives on earth. Never.
It may be taught by someone, but I personally know of none, and I know of several who have condemned the idea.
I have heard people say they believe that loved ones are looking out for them after death, but those people generally are the type that rarely read the bible or go to church and are just parroting something they heard somewhere. It's akin to people believing the devil has a pitchfork and horns...
So be careful about your accusations.

Next- Ecclesiates is a book that needs to be read and understood- cherry picking always gets us into trouble. And especially in Ecc. that is very dangerous. There are two viewpoints in that book- worldly and godly. Make a note of that please when making doctrine!

The verse you quoted above- Ecc 9:5 Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This verse is always used out of context. Just a simple reading of it all shows you something-- do you believe that the memory of the dead is forgotten? and that there is no more reward? If so, doesn't that make you an atheist?

Lets read other parts of Ecc as well,
Before ch 9 is ch 3- we see in Ecclesiastes 3:19-22
19For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. 20All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. 21Who knows that the spirit of the sons of mankind ascends upward and the spirit of the animal descends downward to the earth? 22I have seen that nothing is better than when a person is happy in his activities, for that is his lot. For who will bring him to see what will occur after him?

It's apparent- he is questioning what happens at death.. Does the spirit return to God of humans at death or are we the same as beasts?

Let's continue after your verse now- onto Ecclesiastes 12:7
For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. 6Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. 8“Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”
9In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge; and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs. 10The Preacher sought to find delightful words and to write words of truth correctly.

11The words of wise men are like goads, and masters of these collections are like well-driven nails; they are given by one Shepherd. 12But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.

13The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

He finally answered his own question from ECC 3:21. What happens?
Our bodies die and return to the dust. Our spirit goes back to God who gave it..
Yes, That is my understanding from the NT scriptures- otherwise, it would make zero sense for the Lord Jesus AND Stephen just before death to exclaim, "receive my spirit!".

Luke 23:46
Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.” And when He had said this, He breathed His last.

Acts 7:59
While they were stoning him, Stephen appealed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Jesus said it to the Father and Stephen said it to Jesus.
I do not think that God/Jesus is collecting back just his breath... There is a reason this matters!

So what is the spirit in us?
The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God (Romans 8:16)
This seems to say we have spirit in us aside from the Holy Spirit and they can agree.. that sounds like our minds agreeing with God.

For who among people knows the thoughts of a person except the spirit of the person that is in him? So also the thoughts of God no one knows, except the Spirit of God. --1 Cor 2:11
Our spirit here- thinks.. and reasons.. seems to be our consciousness/mind.

Paul also wrote to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He was speaking immediately at his death by the context.
He also said that to die was to gain. He was not speaking about looking forward to the resurrection there.. He clearly said he was hard pressed about what to choose..
He also looked forward to being fully clothed with his new body at the resurrection.

Proverbs 20:27
The spirit of a man is the lamp of the LORD, searching out his inmost being.
"Inmost being" is who we really are. The physical body is not who we really are. It is merely our flesh.

Jeremiah 17:10
I, the LORD, search the heart; I examine the mind to reward a man according to his way, by what his deeds deserve.
This sounds like Proverbs 20:27-spirit-- above- our minds, intents, thoughts- WHO WE ARE.

Zechariah 12:1
This is the burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD, who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth, who forms the spirit of man within him:

Hebrews 4:12,13
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Therefore, I totally understand people who believe that Christians who die are at peace with God, resting in the spirit, awaiting the resurrection of THE BODY from the dust which is raised and now glorified. We will be fully clothed then.

You can disagree of course. That's your prerogative. I don't see this as crucial to salvation either way.
As to people who bring flowers to graves of loved ones.. It is called, grief- done out of love.
You once again, brotan- sound like a JW to me.
My JW dad died, and I was scolded by my JW mom for bringing lilacs to my dad's grave. He loved them and we gardened together often. I was told that "he can't smell them & pagans bring flowers to the dead!".
Well, no kidding he can't smell them- but this was a memory we shared- the love of lilacs and gardening. SO?
This was out of love for him- that's all. My heart was broken when he died. This was a way to help cope with the loss of him.
Please Be very careful before you accuse people. I have absolutely no doubt that my God knows the intentions of my heart. and Pagans have zero to do with anything or God's lilacs...
Accusers always find fault of the innocent. It is what they live for- to condemn others. That is a very dangerous place to live.

 

[bro.tan]

Hello. To address your OP - Personally, I have never once heard any pastor teach that deceased are overlooking the lives on earth. Never.
It may be taught by someone, but I personally know of none, and I know of several who have condemned the idea.
I have heard people say they believe that loved ones are looking out for them after death, but those people generally are the type that rarely read the bible or go to church and are just parroting something they heard somewhere. It's akin to people believing the devil has a pitchfork and horns...
So be careful about your accusations.

Next- Ecclesiates is a book that needs to be read and understood- cherry picking always gets us into trouble. And especially in Ecc. that is very dangerous. There are two viewpoints in that book- worldly and godly. Make a note of that please when making doctrine!

The verse you quoted above- Ecc 9:5 Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

This verse is always used out of context. Just a simple reading of it all shows you something-- do you believe that the memory of the dead is forgotten? and that there is no more reward? If so, doesn't that make you an atheist?

Lets read other parts of Ecc as well,
Before ch 9 is ch 3- we see in Ecclesiastes 3:19-22
19For the fate of the sons of mankind and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath, and there is no advantage for mankind over animals, for all is futility. 20All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. 21Who knows that the spirit of the sons of mankind ascends upward and the spirit of the animal descends downward to the earth? 22I have seen that nothing is better than when a person is happy in his activities, for that is his lot. For who will bring him to see what will occur after him?

It's apparent- he is questioning what happens at death.. Does the spirit return to God of humans at death or are we the same as beasts?

Let's continue after your verse now- onto Ecclesiastes 12:7
For man goes to his eternal home while mourners go about in the street. 6Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. 8“Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”
9In addition to being a wise man, the Preacher also taught the people knowledge; and he pondered, searched out and arranged many proverbs. 10The Preacher sought to find delightful words and to write words of truth correctly.

11The words of wise men are like goads, and masters of these collections are like well-driven nails; they are given by one Shepherd. 12But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.

13The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. 14For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.

I hope you read the beginning of the thread before you commented. But let's see what David says in Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent. Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.

Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

 

[soberxp]

I hope you read the beginning of the thread before you commented. But let's see what David says in Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent. Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.

Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

I agree. I once slept for three days and three nights straight, and there was nothing there—no dreams, no thoughts, nothing at all. It was just pitch black.

But if God is omnipotent, why can’t He use His omnipotence to guide people toward the truth? For example, by isolating each person in a prison where they are shielded from all false information and can learn the truth.

 

[bro.tan]

Please read post #9 ... or you did just cannot challenge it.
"Pslam 6:5 is not a theological statement on the state of the dead, but a desperate plea for God to spare the psalmist's life so he may continue to glorify Him." John MacArthur

Psalm 115:17 - There are souls in heaven praising the Lord. Those in Hades forget the Lord and all that is good - they are dead spiritually.
We're done! Bye.

If it's possible let's stick to Bible terminology, because the Bible speak of two types of Death. The first death is the grave, now when I read the post it looks like you mixing them both. The second death is the lake of fire, I haven't mention that death yet. I just want to be clear that you understand, because the second death is coming when Jesus get back.