Why do they hate being called Christians

[BreadOfLife]

Yes its made up of people. Glad you got that bit.

Yup - a VISIBLE Body.
Apparently - YOU'RE not in it, my Lone Ranger friend . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Whoos doing teh hijacking,?? This is a christian forum for christians all you do is promote catholism not Christ whom all Christianity is about.

And it had nothing to do with the Catholic Church until your fellow anti-Catholic Josho chimed in on post #6.
And I hate to have to keep having to reminding you that Catholics were the FIRST Christians, my historically-bankrupt friend . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes and we defend Christianity and our faith in Jesus Christ in whom teh salvation of all men lie, not mens fraudulent doctrines and religions. Why is Christ such a problem with you???

Well, you defend factions of Christianity - not the historic Christian faith.
SOME of you defend your cults and little "Generals" - like yours over at "aggressivechristianity.net" . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do you really want to go down that path?? The list of your chruches sins against man is longer than the diameter of the earth. Where would you like to start??

If you wanna start a thread about that - I would be MORE than happy to humiliate you there as well.
Better bone up on your history though . . .

 

[epostle1]

This topic is in the DEBATE FORUM. I see some good debating going on.

Yes. We know what will happen. Since the Catholics on this site are actively and forcefully defending their faith then it will be shut down. Just like the last 5 topics over the last several months that have heavy Catholic involvement. All shut down. Almost no other discussions are shut down.

Tom, keep in mind this is a PROTESTANT owned, PROTESTANT managed forum, and we are tolerated guests. This thread should have been shut down on the first hypocritical attack on sex scandals. The problem is how the general public has been so hoodwinked by the media especially PROTESTANTS who think they have a nice handy bat to beat Catholics with, thanks to the relentless pounding by the biased media, the mouthpiece of Satan. If this thread gets locked, I'm hoping I've presented enough educational material to make those fixated on sex abuse think twice.

A THREAD TITLE Does God Mind If Idols Of 'saints' Are Worshipped In Church? is a double falsehood. We have no idols and saints are never worshiped. This kind of bigotry is in clear violation of the rules and it lasted for 3 pages before being locked. And it is a thread title. It's a typical double standard found in every Protestant run forum. This is nowhere near as bad as the snake pit CARM forum, where banning of Catholics is a regular occurrence, so we have more freedom here than elsewhere.

But I share your concern. If our 'loving brothers and sisters in Christ' are free to persecute us with hate, lies and bigotry, then we should have the freedom to defend ourselves, or find a forum that follows its own rules.

 

[mjrhealth]

Well, you defend factions of Christianity - not the historic Christian faith.
SOME of you defend your cults and little "Generals" - like yours over at "aggressivechristianity.net" . .

Faction yes Catholism is just the start.

If you wanna start a thread about that - I would be MORE than happy to humiliate you there as well.
Better bone up on your history though . .

Where do we start the murder of the Jews by the Crusadess sent by your pope, teh murdered and torture of Christians because they would not join to the beast. Preaching teh gospel in latin so Gods children would be kept in the dark, Burining of bibles so that teh children of God could not read them, the murder of anyone who who even think to print a bible,

All avaliable right now at your nearest library , video shop, documentaires on the net for all teh world to see.

Nothing Hidden all will be revealed.

What god do you serve??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Faction yes Catholism is just the start.


Where do we start the murder of the Jews by the Crusadess sent by your pope, teh murdered and torture of Christians because they would not join to the beast. Preaching teh gospel in latin so Gods children would be kept in the dark, Burining of bibles so that teh children of God could not read them, the murder of anyone who who even think to print a bible,

All avaliable right now at your nearest library , video shop, documentaires on the net for all teh world to see.

Nothing Hidden all will be revealed.

What god do you serve??

"Catholicism is the Tree from which Protestantism originally splintered."
Kenneth Samples, Protestant historian

As for the rest of your woefully-ignorant rant - start a new thread instead of hijacking THIS on.
Like i said - I'd be MORE than happy to expose your historical ignorance there . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

As for the rest of your woefully-ignorant rant - start a new thread instead of hijacking THIS on.
Like i said - I'd be MORE than happy to expose your historical ignorance there . . .

Please go right ahead seems to be a favourite thing of yours to humiliate anyone who opposes you, mind you, you cant burn people at the stake anymore must make it rather more difficult.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please go right ahead seems to be a favourite thing of yours to humiliate anyone who opposes you, mind you, you cant burn people at the stake anymore must make it rather more difficult.

I don't need to do that. Your own lies expose you.

Anyway - whenever you want to start a thread - you know where to find me . . .

 

[epostle1]

When someone rambles off 5 psychotic lies in a single sentence, they not interested in a discussion, worse, they are incapable.

At least he admits getting his lies from the nut jobs on you tube.

Would the report button do any good?

 

[BreadOfLife]

When someone rambles off 5 psychotic lies in a single sentence, they not interested in a discussion, worse, they are incapable.

Would the report button do any good?

Not here, unfortunately.
That kind of thing is almost encouraged - IF you're a non-Catholic, of course.

My favorite lie of his was: "murder of the Jews by the Crusadess sent by your pope"

And all these years, I thought it was the Muslims we were "murdering" . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

Not here, unfortunately.
That kind of thing is almost encouraged - IF you're a non-Catholic, of course.

You lot have beint tolerated more than any "christian" would on a catholic forum, we would be banned within 5 min of going on a "catholic: forum.

And all these years, I thought it was the Muslims we were "murdering" . . .

And you say you know history??

Firts crusade Pope urban !! 1095

80 000 take up the cross, as they crossed into europe heading for constantinople they forced the conversion or massacacred thousands of jews in vengance for the killing of Christ.

An eye witness Raymond of Aguilers teh count of Toulouses chaplinn stated,
Our men cut off the heads of our enemies, others shot them with arrows, others tortured them by casting them into flames.

These are Jews he is talking about "Gods choosen people".

Each crusader had being promised possesion of any house marked by his shield and arms, so many householders where thrown from teh roofs, whole families women and children

Jerusalem the biography by Simon Sebag you should read it took me a year lots of refernces if you need them too.

Now who was doing the killing.??

 

[BreadOfLife]

You lot have beint tolerated more than any "christian" would on a catholic forum, we would be banned within 5 min of going on a "catholic: forum.

And you say you know history??

Firts crusade Pope urban !! 1095

80 000 take up the cross, as they crossed into europe heading for constantinople they forced the conversion or massacacred thousands of jews in vengance for the killing of Christ.

An eye witness Raymond of Aguilers teh count of Toulouses chaplinn stated,
Our men cut off the heads of our enemies, others shot them with arrows, others tortured them by casting them into flames.

These are Jews he is talking about "Gods choosen people".

Each crusader had being promised possesion of any house marked by his shield and arms, so many householders where thrown from teh roofs, whole families women and children

Jerusalem the biography by Simon Sebag you should read it took me a year lots of refernces if you need them too.

Now who was doing the killing.??

"On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II ordered the First Crusade. Giving one of the most important speeches in history, Pope Urban II rallied Christian men to take back the Holy Land back from the Muslims."
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pope-urban-ii-orders-first-crusade

"The First Crusade (1095–1099) was the first of a number of crusades that attempted to capture the Holy Land, called by Pope Urban II in 1095. It started as a widespread pilgrimage in western Christendom and ended as a military expedition by Roman Catholic Europe to regain the Holy Land taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant (632–661), ultimately resulting in the capture of Jerusalem in 1099."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

"While in the 900s Byzantium had been able to reseize territory in Syria, starting around the 1030s the Seldjuk Turks gained power and territory. These incursions prompted the emperor of Byzantium, Alexius I Comnenus to send a delegation to Piacenza, Italy, asking Pope Urban II in March 1095 for help against the Turks. On November 27, 1095, in Clermont, France, Popoe Urban II called for a crusade to help the Byzantines and to free the city of Jerusalem."
http://www.umich.edu/~eng415/timeline/summaries/First_Crusade.htm


These are not "Catholic" sources but secular ones.
Do your HOMEWORK.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes murdering the JEws in the process because the ykilled Jesus Your getting loud again cant help yourself. The catholic church like the muselums want to rule the word, its funny how they all want Jerusalem.

 

[epostle1]

Note that it is YOU going off topic with this lame attack.
Oh, yes. The peace loving Muslims occupying the Holy Land against the bloodthirsty Catholics. What a joke. That's like civilized countries supporting the beheading of children by the ISIS, the picture YOU are painting. You should try reading your own quotes. You underlined Muslim conquests but don't understand what Muslims do to Christian Catholics when they conquer. The Holy Land was cut off. Modern scholarship has dismissed most of the PROTESTANT propaganda. The facts in your quotes may be accurate, but it is presented in such a way to make the pope look like a blood thirsty power hungry tyrant. This is not true.

If al Qaeda or the ISIS were to occupy ISRAEL, every non-denom/ evangelical/Protestant would be screaming to their governments for immediate military action too free ISRAEL, but if the POPE does the same thing, at a time when there were no armies, 1000 years ago it musty be wrong. What a brainless attitude to take.

Myth 1: The Crusades were wars of unprovoked aggression against a peaceful Muslim world.

This is as wrong as wrong can be. From the time of Mohammed, Muslims had sought to conquer the Christian world. They did a pretty good job of it, too. After a few centuries of steady conquests, Muslim armies had taken all of North Africa, the Middle East, Asia Minor, and most of Spain. In other words, by the end of the eleventh century the forces of Islam had captured two-thirds of the Christian world. Palestine, the home of Jesus Christ; Egypt, the birthplace of Christian monasticism; Asia Minor, where St. Paul planted the seeds of the first Christian communities: These were not the periphery of Christianity but its very core. And the Muslim empires were not finished yet. They continued to press westward toward Constantinople, ultimately passing it and entering Europe itself. As far as unprovoked aggression goes, it was all on the Muslim side. At some point what was left of the Christian world would have to defend itself or simply succumb to Islamic conquest. The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II in 1095 in response to an urgent plea for help from the Byzantine emperor in Constantinople. Urban called the knights of Christendom to come to the aid of their eastern brethren. It was to be an errand of mercy, liberating the Christians of the East from their Muslim conquerors. In other words, the Crusades were from the beginning a defensive war. The entire history of the eastern Crusades is one of response to Muslim aggression.

Myth 2: The Crusaders wore crosses, but they were really only interested in capturing booty and land. Their pious platitudes were just a cover for rapacious greed.

Historians used to believe that a rise in Europe’s population led to a crisis of too many noble "second sons," those who were trained in chivalry warfare but who had no feudal lands to inherit. The Crusades, therefore, were seen as a safety valve, sending these belligerent men far from Europe where they could carve out lands for themselves at someone else’s expense. Modern scholarship, assisted by the advent of computer databases, has exploded this myth. We now know that it was the "first sons" of Europe that answered the pope’s call in 1095, as well as in subsequent Crusades. Crusading was an enormously expensive operation. Lords were forced

to sell off or mortgage their lands to gather the necessary funds. They were also not interested in an overseas kingdom. Much like a soldier today, the medieval Crusader was proud to do his duty but longed to return home. After the spectacular successes of the First Crusade, with Jerusalem and much of Palestine in Crusader hands, virtually all of the Crusaders went home. Only a tiny handful remained behind to consolidate and govern the newly won territories. Booty was also scarce. In fact, although Crusaders no doubt dreamed of vast wealth in opulent Eastern cities, virtually none of them ever even recouped their expenses. But money and land were not the reasons that they went on Crusade in the first place. They went to atone for their sins and to win salvation by doing good works in a faraway land.

Myth 3: When the Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099 they massacred every man, woman, and child in the city until the streets ran ankle deep with the blood.

This is a favorite used to demonstrate the evil nature of the Crusades. ...But this must be understood in historical context. The accepted moral standard in all pre-modern European and Asian civilizations was that a city that resisted capture and was taken by force belonged to the victorious forces. That included not just the buildings and goods, but the people as well. That is why every city or fortress had to weigh carefully whether it could hold out against besiegers. If not, it was wise to negotiate terms of surrender. In the case of Jerusalem, the defenders had resisted right up to the end. They calculated that the formidable walls of the city would keep the Crusaders at bay until a relief force in Egypt could arrive. They were wrong. When the city fell, therefore, it was put to the sack. Many were killed, yet many others were ransomed or allowed to go free. By modern standards this may seem brutal. Yet a medieval knight would point out that many more innocent men, women, and children are killed in modern bombing warfare than could possibly be put to the sword in one or two days. It is worth noting that in those Muslim cities that surrendered to the Crusaders the people were left unmolested, retained their property, and allowed to worship freely. As for those streets of blood, no historian accepts them as anything other than a literary convention. Jerusalem is a big town. The amount of blood necessary to fill the streets to a continuous and running three-inch depth would require many more people than lived in the region, let alone the city.

Myth 4: The Crusades were just medieval colonialism dressed up in religious finery.

It is important to remember that in the Middle Ages the West was not a powerful, dominant culture venturing into a primitive or backward region. It was the Muslim East that was powerful, wealthy, and opulent. Europe was the third world. The Crusader States, founded in the wake of the First Crusade, were not new plantations of Catholics in a Muslim world akin to the British colonization of America. Catholic presence in the Crusader States was always tiny, easily less than ten percent of the population. These were the rulers and magistrates, as well as Italian merchants and members of the military orders. The overwhelming majority of the population in the Crusader States was Muslim. They were not colonies, therefore, in the sense of plantations or even factories, as in the case of India. They were outposts. The ultimate purpose of the Crusader States was to defend the Holy Places in Palestine, especially Jerusalem, and to provide a safe environment for Christian pilgrims to visit those places. There was no mother country with which the Crusader States had an economic relationship, nor did Europeans economically benefit from them. Quite the contrary, the expense of Crusades to maintain the Latin East was a serious drain on European resources. As an outpost, the Crusader States kept a military focus. While the Muslims warred against each other the Crusader States were safe, but once united the Muslims were able to dismantle the strongholds, capture the cities, and in 1291 expel the Christians completely.

Thomas F. Madden is Associate Professor and Chair of the Department of History at Saint Louis University. He is author of A Concise History of the Crusades and co-author of The Fourth Crusade.

http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/tmadden_crusademyths_feb05.asp

 

[epostle1]

Myth 5: The Crusades were also waged against the Jews.

No pope ever called a Crusade against Jews. During the First Crusade a large band of riffraff, not associated with the main army, descended on the towns of the Rhineland and decided to rob and kill the Jews they found there. In part this was pure greed. In part it also stemmed from the incorrect belief that the Jews, as the crucifiers of Christ, were legitimate targets of the war. Pope Urban II and subsequent popes strongly condemned these attacks on Jews. Local bishops and other clergy and laity attempted to defend the Jews, although with limited success. Similarly, during the opening phase of the Second Crusade a group of renegades killed many Jews in Germany before St. Bernard was able to catch up to them and put a stop to it. These misfires of the movement were an unfortunate byproduct of Crusade enthusiasm. But they were not the purpose of the Crusades. To use a modern analogy, during the Second World War some American soldiers committed crimes while overseas. They were arrested and punished for those crimes. But the purpose of the Second World War was not to commit crimes.

Myth 6: The Crusades were so corrupt and vile that they even had a Children’s Crusade.

The so-called "Children’s Crusade" of 1212 was neither a Crusade nor an army of children. It was a particularly large eruption of popular religious enthusiasm in Germany that led some young people, mostly adolescents, to proclaim themselves Crusaders and begin marching to the sea. Along the way they gathered plenty of popular support and not a few brigands, robbers, and beggars as well. The movement splintered in Italy and finally ended when the Mediterranean failed to dry up for them to cross. Pope Innocent III did not call this "Crusade." Indeed, he repeatedly urged non-combatants to stay at home, helping the war effort through fasting, prayer, and alms. In this case, he praised the zeal of the young who had marched so far, and then told them to go home.

Myth 7: Pope John Paul II apologized for the Crusades.

This is an odd myth, given that the pope was so roundly criticized for failing to apologize directly for the Crusades when he asked forgiveness from all those that Christians had unjustly harmed. It is true that John Paul recently apologized to the Greeks for the Fourth Crusade’s sack of Constantinople in 1204. But the pope at the time, Innocent III, expressed similar regret. That, too, was a tragic misfire that Innocent had done everything he could to avoid.

Myth 8: Muslims, who remember the Crusades vividly, have good reason to hate the West.

Actually, the Muslim world remembers the Crusades about as well as the West–in other words, incorrectly. That should not be surprising. Muslims get their information about the Crusades from the same rotten histories that the West relies on. The Muslim world used to celebrate the Crusades as a great victory for them. They did, after all, win. But western authors, fretting about the legacy of modern imperialism, have recast the Crusades as wars of aggression and the Muslims as placid sufferers. In so doing they have rescinded centuries of Muslim triumphs, offering in their stead only the consolation of victimhood.
[This article originally appeared in the January/February 2002 issue of Catholic Dossier.]

Publications before 1970 on the Crusades are outdated and unreliable.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes murdering the JEws in the process because the ykilled Jesus Your getting loud again cant help yourself. The catholic church like the muselums want to rule the word, its funny how they all want Jerusalem.

"Muselums"???

Just R*E*A*D both of Kephas responses above and do some actual homework instead of making these asinine accusations . . .

 

[epostle1]

"On November 27, 1095, Pope Urban II ordered the First Crusade. Giving one of the most important speeches in history, Pope Urban II rallied Christian men to take back the Holy Land back from the Muslims."
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/pope-urban-ii-orders-first-crusade

You get better history watching Monty Python. Most of it is patently FALSE. For example, the Church has NEVER condoned, practiced or endorsed forced conversions. Only bigots fall for the lies in that site, because it feeds their hate. That's why they are so fat.

 

[epostle1]

oops

 

[mjrhealth]

The crusades rekindled a fresh zeal against the ← Jews → . They complain that these votaries, passing through Cologne, Mentz, Wormes, and Spiers, com|mitted a massacre, from the month of April till July, in which were stabbed and drowned five thou|sand persons; and that the number of those who were forced to abjure the religion of their fathers can|not be ascertained. They do not exaggerate the matter; on the contrary, historians amplify the number, with the addition of hideous circum|stances. They assert that fourteen hundred of them were burnt at Mentz; and that, from the resistence and disorder which happened on that occasion, half the city was reduced to ashes. Those of Wormes at first retired to the bishop; but he would not receive them, unless they turned Christians. The people suffered them not to deliberate long: some embraced Christianity, which they abjured as soon as the form was over; and others destroyed themselves. Some|thing like this happened at Triers. The women, seeing the crusaders coming, murdered their own children, saying, "It were better to send them thus into Abraham's bosom, than to abandon them to the Christians." Others, laden with stones, threw themselves into the river, and were drowned; and some fled to the bishop's castle. Egilbert, who re|sided in it, preached them a sermon, by which they were apparently converted; but the year following all of them, except one, relapsed into Judaism. The bishop of Spire had more humanity; for he not only protected the fugitives, but caused some of their persecutors to be hanged. This mischief went so far, that the Bavarian annalists reckon twelve thousand that died in that country; and others affirm, that the number of those who perished in Germany was almost incredible.
*Another crusade was published fifty years after. Rodolphus, who was commissioned to preach it up on the banks of the Rhine, did it with great success. As it was one of the articles of his religion and his doctrine, that the enemies of Christianity were first to be taken off, and those stabbed who were near at hand, before they went to seek them in foreign lands, the people were inflamed by his exhortations: but the massacre was not so great as designed, be|cause part of them took their flight betimes, and re|tired to Nuremberg, and other cities depending upon the emperor, under whose protection they found more security. We must do justice to St. Bernard, and acknowledge that Rodolphus's doc|trine did not please him. He wrote to the arch|bishop of Mentz, whom this hermit had inflamed by his preaching, to prove to him, that he ought to look upon the persecution of the ← Jews → as inhuman; and therefore he advised that he might be sent back to his desert.
Nevertheless, the flame was spread far and near by his trumpeters, not only in Germany, but in most other parts of Europe, and great numbers of ← Jews → were massacred, if we may credit their chronolo|gers, while others, being driven into despair by the cruelties they were likely to undergo, put an end to their own existence. With these persecu|tions ended the eleventh century.

And so on it goes. Giving God and Jesus a bad name and delighting in the fact. Its history you cant run form it, has being published since teh crusades started.