Why do you ask my NAME, seeing it is wonderful?

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TonyChanYT

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Who is this name?

Preamble: For this OP, I distinguish between the term Jesus and the term pre-incarnate appearances of Christ. Jesus was the homosapien born of Mary.

After Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:

27 he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 Then he said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?”
That might be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. His name was not disclosed to Jacob.

Centuries later in Hosea 12:

3 In the womb he [Jacob] took his brother by the heel, and in his manhood he strove with God. 4He strove with the angel and prevailed; he wept and sought his favor. He met God at Bethel, and there God spoke with us— 5 the LORD, the God of hosts, the LORD is his memorial name
Hosea revealed that Jacob wrestled with the LORD.

Before Samson was born in Judges 13:

17 Manoah said to the angel of the LORD, “What is your name, so that, when your words come true, we may honor you?” 18 And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful [H6883] ?”
That also might be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. Again, his name was not disclosed.

A few centuries later, Isaiah prophesied Messianically in (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) 9:

6 Because the Child is born to us, and the Son is given to us, and his authority was on his shoulder, and his Name was called The Wonder [H6382] and The Counselor, God, the Mighty Man of Eternity, the Prince of Peace [and The Father of Eternity]
With the word "Wonder", Isaiah seemed to link the coming Messiah with the angel of the LORD who spoke to Manoah.

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭30:

4 Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!
Again, there was the mysterious name.

Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3:

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
Jesus seemed to be alluding to ascending and descending from heaven in Pro. 30:4.

A good case can be made that Jesus had preincarnate interactions with some people on Earth as the Son of Man, as this mysterious name.
 

Randy Kluth

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Who is this name?

Preamble: For this OP, I distinguish between the term Jesus and the term pre-incarnate appearances of Christ. Jesus was the homosapien born of Mary.

After Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:


That might be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. His name was not disclosed to Jacob.

Centuries later in Hosea 12:


Hosea revealed that Jacob wrestled with the LORD.

Before Samson was born in Judges 13:


That also might be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. Again, his name was not disclosed.

A few centuries later, Isaiah prophesied Messianically in (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) 9:


With the word "Wonder", Isaiah seemed to link the coming Messiah with the angel of the LORD who spoke to Manoah.

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭30:


Again, there was the mysterious name.

Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3:


Jesus seemed to be alluding to ascending and descending from heaven in Pro. 30:4.

A good case can be made that Jesus had preincarnate interactions with some people on Earth as the Son of Man, as this mysterious name.
All great references and points. It is clearly the same God who in Jesus identified with these pre-incarnate revelations, as you call them.

For myself, I don't view Jesus as if he was a pre-incarnate "human," which would be a contradiction. So he simply could not be called Jesus before he was actually born in the human form called "Jesus."

Who knows what human form existed before Jesus was born when considering these theophanies? They certainly would not have looked like Jesus, because his DNA had not yet been structured for the "Jesus" form.

So this only shows me that God can at any time appear in a human form, in a form other than Jesus or in the form of Jesus. I cannot link these early forms to Jesus simply because Jesus had yet to be produced. But they certainly all identify as the same Deity!

Jesus clearly identified with these early theophanies when he identified with God Himself. "Before Abraham was, I am." Yes, he was the God who would descend and ascend, which is, I suppose, what Jesus came to fulfill?

What is clear is that these pre-incarnate forms of God were in fact Deity. And since Jesus was also a revelation of Deity he had to also identify with these earlier revelations of Deity in human form.

I hate to be controversial, but sometimes I have to to make my point. My personal belief is that whereas some Christians believe there can only be a Trinity in God I think there can be an unlimited number of human revelations of God. How can we put a limit on an infinite God who can reveal Himself in human form as many times as He wants to?

We know that He did so in these early theophanies, and we know He did so in Jesus. So I don't think we have to limit God to a Trinity. But the Trinity is certainly true. :)
 

Nancy

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Who is this name?

Preamble: For this OP, I distinguish between the term Jesus and the term pre-incarnate appearances of Christ. Jesus was the homosapien born of Mary.

After Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:


That might be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. His name was not disclosed to Jacob.

Centuries later in Hosea 12:


Hosea revealed that Jacob wrestled with the LORD.

Before Samson was born in Judges 13:


That also might be a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ. Again, his name was not disclosed.

A few centuries later, Isaiah prophesied Messianically in (Aramaic Bible in Plain English) 9:


With the word "Wonder", Isaiah seemed to link the coming Messiah with the angel of the LORD who spoke to Manoah.

‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭30:


Again, there was the mysterious name.

Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in John 3:


Jesus seemed to be alluding to ascending and descending from heaven in Pro. 30:4.

A good case can be made that Jesus had preincarnate interactions with some people on Earth as the Son of Man, as this mysterious name.
Love the post Tony! I believe they all (the ones you mentioned) were ALL Christ, and as you have pointed out, God Himself gives us His attributes.

Here is a small bit of an article I read in Bible Ref:

"Only God transcends heaven and earth. Only God can control the wind. Only God formed the clouds. Only God placed the earth in its place. Only God possesses the character of Deity. His Son is Jesus, who descended from heaven and returned to heaven. God's Son Jesus can control the wind (Matthew 14:32–33). God's Son created the heavens and the earth (John 1:3). And God's Son possesses all the nature of God the Father (Colossians 1:15–19). Sarcastic or serious, Agur's question points to a crucial reality about God's plan for salvation.

By stating, "Surely you know!" after asking these five questions, Agur may be continuing his poetic turn of phrase. Or he may be challenging those who criticized his beliefs. When God finally spoke to Job, He sarcastically suggested Job knew what it was like to create the world (Job 38:4–5). Of course, Job did not. Agur may be countering someone's claim to greater spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 30:2–3). Or, he may simply be expressing his desire to know God by literally "begging" for an answer."
Bibleref.com

Good stuff brother!
 
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Randy Kluth

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This platform does not allow discussion on Trinity. See https://www.reddit.com/r/BibleVerseCommentary/comments/tcvci6 and follow up there.
I didn't realize that. I should think that conservative Christian debate forums would allow mention of the Trinity, and support of the Trinity, though not opposition to the doctrine of the Trinity?

But I've covered the subject the best I can without getting into the controversy. I have seen your earlier comments on this, and generally find you come from a good place consistently. :) Like you, I'm trying to express truth surrounding this without directly approaching the doctrine of the Trinity. I'm just discussing your reference to theophanies.

I think they truly represent God in finite human forms, just as God did that in Jesus. And Jesus, being God in human form, had to then identify with God's earlier representation in finite human forms, or theophanies. This does not have to address Trinitarian Doctrine at all.