Why do you think God decided to have Jesus die

[Apache1]

And by that I mean before Adam/Eve/Satan were created

 

[GISMYS_7]

The wages of our sin is death and hell but because of Jesus's love Jesus paid our debt if we believe and accept him as our lord and Savior.

 

[Apache1]

That is not the issue here. God could have easily decided to do something else entirely that didn’t involve “sin and death” but instead decided to have Jesus die long before any of us were ever created

 

[GISMYS_7]

LOL!!! So now we see little men trying to tell Almighty, eternal God what He should have did and what He could and should do!!!!LOL!! THINK!

 

[BeyondET]

And by that I mean before Adam/Eve/Satan were created

First is to know why there was a beginning in the first place.

 

[BeyondET]

LOL!!! So now we see little men trying to tell Almighty, eternal God what He should have did and what He could and should do!!!!LOL!! THINK!

Hmm I haven't read any post implying that.

 

[Stumpmaster]

And by that I mean before Adam/Eve/Satan were created

Why do you think God decided to have Jesus die?​

The short answer is that it was the only way to redeem sinners.

 

[Apache1]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

God and Jesus are in heaven. No one else has been created yet and there is no sin or death

Now why would they decide to go down the route they did instead of doing something else entirely

 

[quietthinker]

That is not the issue here. God could have easily decided to do something else entirely that didn’t involve “sin and death” but instead decided to have Jesus die long before any of us were ever created

Apache1, ......I think God knew we would kill him when he came; I don't think getting killed was his objective.
Jesus came to show us what God was like, his character and when we couldn't handle it and wanted to get rid of him he submitted to our violence.
It showed us that God would rather die than kill.....that's the window into God's heart.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

God and Jesus are in heaven. No one else has been created yet and there is no sin or death

Now why would they decide to go down the route they did instead of doing something else entirely

If you believe that God had all this planned from before creation, then I hate to burst your bubble, but God created man to inhabit the earth forever. He had no plan for anyone to die, least of all his precious son.

Giving his intelligent creatures free will meant that God did not intend for them to misuse it. Free will was a gift, but when it was abused, it became a curse and it caused the human race to fall into sin and death. The TKGE was there in the garden and it alone carried the death penalty. There was no other cause of death for the human race.

After their creation, God was going to observe to see if they would be obedient to him, especially since he had given them such an amazing start to life......but satan was also observing what was going on as he was the guardian angel overseeing things in Eden. In accord with James 1:13-15 he decided to deliberately sin by tempting the woman, who believed his lies, as he masqueraded as a serpent. But Adam was not deceived ......yet he ate the fruit offered by his disobedient wife, joining her in rebellion. He chose to side with his wife and to turn his back on his Creator.

Sending his son to die for mankind was the only way to undo what the devil had done. A sinless human had deliberately caused the death of all of his offspring, spreading sin and death to them. (Rom 5:12) So God sent a sinless human into the world to offer his life for ours. This took place only after Adam had sinned.....it was never planned before the rebellion.

Jesus virtually stood in front of us to 'take the bullet' so to speak. His sacrifice makes forgiveness of sins possible, and in the new world to come, death will be abolished forever. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus virtually stood in front of us to 'take the bullet' so to speak. His sacrifice makes forgiveness of sins possible,

and who was shooting the bullet?.....and why cannot God forgive without sacrifice? .....because that's what real love does.

 

[Space_Karen]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

God and Jesus are in heaven. No one else has been created yet and there is no sin or death

Now why would they decide to go down the route they did instead of doing something else entirely

That is a good question.

It would seem a clash between good and evil would represent a natural focal point for beings with free will.

There are so many different angles and perspectives to it, which are relevant. There isn't really a single aspect or motive which can reasonably explain it all.

Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed.

-Matthew 25:24

The concept of God reaping without sowing could imply that while our current arrangement multiplies hardships and difficulties.

It also multiplies goodness and beauty perhaps beyond what God might accomplish through sowing on His own.

There are many other angles and facets to this discussion. But I think that could be one of the main themes.

 

[Lambano]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

God and Jesus are in heaven. No one else has been created yet and there is no sin or death

Now why would they decide to go down the route they did instead of doing something else entirely

Yeah, a few 55-gallon drums of Snake-Away sprinkled around the periphery of the Garden and we wouldn't be in this mess.

The problem of theodicy bothered me more as I grew older. The answer that I can accept is this: This is not "Plan B". For whatever future it is that God has ultimately planned for us, it is necessary that we experientially know Good and Evil.

And that requires that I trust that God knows what He's doing.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

God and Jesus are in heaven. No one else has been created yet and there is no sin or death

Now why would they decide to go down the route they did instead of doing something else entirely

God is outside time and sees the beginning to the end in the present!!

 

[Wrangler]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

God and Jesus are in heaven. No one else has been created yet and there is no sin or death

Now why would they decide to go down the route they did instead of doing something else entirely

Great thread Apache! It’s a question I’ve thought about for a long time. Here are my thoughts.

1. You are correct that the sovereign Creator could have made things different.

2. He chose to have death be the penalty for sin because he decided it is that serious.

3. Otherwise, it sin would destroy what is holy for the 2 cannot commingle.

In Genesis 1, it says that God separated the light from the dark. We cannot imagine such a universe. But there is the evidence of the process flow.

The Jews count the beginning of the day at sunset to honor creation. It was dark and then God said, let there be light. I do believe this reflects our state before being reborn.

3. Sticking with the Genesis account, God himself replaced the temporary fig leaf with the permanent animal skin to cover shame for sin.

4. This animal didn’t give up its skin free of charge; it paid with its life so our sin could be covered. This is the eternal template.

5. Enter Jesus, the final sacrifice. Adam and Eve could not cover the shame of their sin by their own work. The fig leaf was insufficient. The covering of sin required the work of God, permanently done through Christ.

6. This arrangement is brilliant. By having the Messiah stand in atonement for all sin requires humility at the start for redemption. Humility is the defining characteristic of the spiritually mature, the most Christ-like virtue.

If one cannot put to death their own ego, they can never accept the finished work of the Messiah on the cross - even though it means their literal death. Brilliant!

Hope this helps.

 

[lforrest]

The consequence of sin being death, I believe is due to the fundamental nature of God being the source of all life. Therefore rebellion against God causes death, by separation from life.

So sinners would be separated from God, and so too would the dead.

Why does one sin constitute rebellion? Because of God's Holyness, he can not look upon sin. His holiness demands justice.

Jesus died to satisfy God's justice, and rose again to give us eternal life, that we may be reconciled to the living God.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Let me put it this way since no one seems to understand

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;

God wouldn't be God if there was a greater purpose than His own.

Everything about Creation was good until sin spoiled it. Fortunately God had a remedy already planned.

The admonition is to look to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith, not some fictitious man-made alternative:

Heb 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.​

 

[Aunty Jane]

The consequence of sin being death, I believe is due to the fundamental nature of God being the source of all life. Therefore rebellion against God causes death, by separation from life.

There was only one cause of death in Eden.....disobedience, which as you said meant separation from the source of life.
God had the "tree of life" there in the garden to guarantee that human life could be unending, without sickness or old age spoling what God had started. Life from day one was conditional however.....it depended on obedience to one simple command.....don't eat from the one tree that God claimed as his exclusive property. In many nations, to steal from your Sovereign, no matter how small the theft was, often merited the death penalty. It was an act of gross disrespect for the one who had the right over life and death.

So sinners would be separated from God, and so too would the dead.

Adam and his wife were separated from God, but he gave their children opportunity to get to know him through a 'mediator' whom he appointed....his trusted and precious son. (1 Tim 2:5-6) God spoke to obedient ones through the channel of this 'bridge' between us and God Himself. By this means He would have spoken to his human servants all through history, informing the prophets of his plans and intentions as time and occurrence played out. Israel's history was more an example of what not to do, than as an example of how serving God was meant to be carried out. They tried his patience to the limit, but he did not abandon them until he had fulfilled his covenant with Abraham.....after they had their Messiah murdered, God no longer counted them as his people. He chose a new nation to serve him. (Acts 15:14; Matt 21:42-44)

Finally he appeared in the person of the Messiah, Jesus Christ....the one through whom God would work out salvation for those who loved and willingly obeyed him. Jesus providing the means to forgive sins on a permanent basis and to lead obedient ones back to God.

Why does one sin constitute rebellion? Because of God's Holyness, he can not look upon sin. His holiness demands justice.

Not many make the correlation between God's holiness and his perfect justice.
God's law demanded equivalency.....the perfect balance that we see in all of God's creation.
A life that was taken was compensated for by taking the life of the murderer...."eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life".

Adam was responsible for the death of all of his offspring, but only one man was the perpetrator, so one man also became the redeemer, offering his perfect sinless life for Adam's, cancelling the debt to his children. (Rom 5:12; 1 Pet 3:18)

Jesus died to satisfy God's justice, and rose again to give us eternal life, that we may be reconciled to the living God.

That's it. But the life he gives is not "eternal", as that means "without beginning or end".....what God gives redeemed humanity is "everlasting life" or "life without end", with no natural cause of death, just as it was in Eden. But just as that life was conditional back then, dependent solely on man's obedience to God's commands, so it will be with free willed humans and angels who have gone through this time of testing together. The first rebel was not human...so all of God's children needed to learn how damaging free will can be unrestrained.

Free will can then return to the gift it was meant to be.....no rebel in the future (if any dare) will ever be permitted to stay around to corrupt others....the precedents are already now set for all eternity to come, never to be revisited.
What wisdom our Creator shows in dealing with us and his angelic sons, in the way that he has. All now have experienced the consequences of doing things "our way" when all God asked of us was to do things "his way"......his abundant love would never steer us in a wrong direction.

We now know how to live the life he gave us, and how to enjoy its blessings forever...never to be tainted by rebellion ever again.

 

[Bob Estey]

And by that I mean before Adam/Eve/Satan were created

When Satan had in innocent man, Jesus, executed, he lost his credibility. That's the way I look at it.

 

[theJW]

Churchianiy believes Christ didn't DIE!
He "was God", taking that thief to heaven, preaching to those in 'Hell'...