Ephesians 2:8-9
English Standard Version
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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Why does God give faith to some but not everyone? (Ephesians 2:8)
- Thread starter Patrick1966
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
I want to make sure you understand what Ephesians 2:8-9 is actually saying.
Question: What does "this" refer to in verse 8?
"This" is the Greek "touto". Greek nouns and pronouns have genders, like French, German, Spanish, but not English. (I took 6 years of German, so I'm familiar with the concept.) "Touto" is a neuter form. "Faith" is the Greek "pistis". Pistis is a feminine noun. The rule is that a pronoun must match the gender of the referent, so by the rules of Greek grammar, the gift CANNOT refer to "faith". However, the neuter form is used when referring to previous complex clauses, so the Gift of God is "salvation by grace through faith". Most English translations obscure this subtle nuance.
Question: What does "this" refer to in verse 8?
"This" is the Greek "touto". Greek nouns and pronouns have genders, like French, German, Spanish, but not English. (I took 6 years of German, so I'm familiar with the concept.) "Touto" is a neuter form. "Faith" is the Greek "pistis". Pistis is a feminine noun. The rule is that a pronoun must match the gender of the referent, so by the rules of Greek grammar, the gift CANNOT refer to "faith". However, the neuter form is used when referring to previous complex clauses, so the Gift of God is "salvation by grace through faith". Most English translations obscure this subtle nuance.
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hi Patrick,
A reformed Baptist, Presbyterian, and others that subscribe to Calvinism would say yes. This has been a thorn in my side for some time now but, all I can say is that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Some will argue this...
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I did not say that. said Calvinists would agree with your statement that God gives faith to some and not others. I gave you
Romans 10:17
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." <---this is what I believe.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
And once again, nobody is listening.
Don't waste your pearls on idiots like me.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
I believe all Christians progress from being unproductive to being productive, as you suspect, and the reverse can also be true if the soil of our heart is not kept wisely.
From my notes:
SOIL CONDITIONS FOR SOLID CONVERSIONS
As in the natural, so in the supernatural, or vice versa from another perspective.
Even though hearts are naturally wicked they can be transformed given the right conditions.
Firstly, as you may know, the Bible is full of gardening and farming metaphors, and the distinction between good soil and bad soil is constantly addressed.
Heb 6:7-8 For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. (8) But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.
Spiritually speaking good land is produced by:
- redesignation to eliminate its use as a thoroughfare compacted by indifferent traffic. (Wayside Hearer)
- excavation to remove rocky, stony material deposited by works of the flesh. (Stony & Rocky Ground Hearer)
- cultivation to identify and uproot weeds and thorns encouraged by worldly woes. (Weed Patch Hearer)
- irrigation to promote soil fertility, seed germination and cellular growth of the Word of God sown by Divine Inspiration. (Good Ground Hearer)
The testimonies of people hitting rock bottom before coming to faith in Christ are as dramatic as they are numerous, often with hardened criminals being transformed after receiving Christian ministry in prison.
Deu 32:2 Let my teaching fall like rain and my speech settle like dew, like gentle rain on new grass, like showers on tender plants.
Here's a favourite chapter that illustrates the invitations and incentives God gives, the acceptance or rejection of which determines what destiny awaits:
Isa 55:1-13 “Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you without money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost! (2) Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods. (3) Incline your ear and come to Me; listen, so that your soul may live. I will make with you an everlasting covenant— My loving devotion promised to David. (4) Behold, I have made him a witness to the nations, a leader and commander of the peoples. (5) Surely you will summon a nation you do not know, and nations who do not know you will run to you. For the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, has bestowed glory on you.” (6) Seek the LORD while He may be found; call on Him while He is near. (7) Let the wicked man forsake his own way and the unrighteous man his own thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon. (8) “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. (9) “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. (10) For just as rain and snow fall from heaven and do not return without watering the earth, making it bud and sprout, and providing seed to sow and food to eat, (11) so My word that proceeds from My mouth will not return to Me empty, but it will accomplish what I please, and it will prosper where I send it. (12) You will indeed go out with joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands. (13) Instead of the thornbush, a cypress will grow, and instead of the brier, a myrtle will spring up; they will make a name for the LORD, an everlasting sign, never to be destroyed.”
Is it possible that those who don't receive faith or have faith is because they are not of God?
John 10:27-28
Young's Literal Translation
27 according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,
28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish -- to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;
John 10:27-28
Young's Literal Translation
27 according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,
28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish -- to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
It's actually down to the world, the flesh, and the devil that some are willfully hardened to the gospel, not because they have missed out on the gift of salvation by divine decree.
2Co 4:3-4 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, (4) whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Eph 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, (2) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, (3) among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
My impression or understanding is that there are Godly people who follow Jesus, Godly people that don't follow Jesus, and the ungodly people who are, essentially, Satan's misguided, lost offspring. Am I mistaken?
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Let's narrow it down to saved and unsaved. No-one is born saved.
The sacrificial death and shed blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse and save every sinner, but not every sinner will be saved.
There are many reasons why people reject Jesus as their Savior. Some people do not think they need a savior and consider themselves to be “basically good”. Others fear social rejection or persecution. For some, the things that the present world has to offer are more appealing than eternal things. Many people are simply resisting the Holy Spirit’s attempts to draw them to faith in Christ.
Whatever the reasons why people reject Jesus Christ, their rejection has disastrous eternal consequences. “There is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved” than the name of Jesus (Acts 4:12), and those who reject Him, for whatever reason, face an eternity in the “outer darkness” of hell where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 25:30).
I would appreciate your thoughts on my new thread here: Thread 'Does John 5:24-29 contradict the belief that one must believe in Jesus to avoid eternal death?' Does John 5:24-29 contradict the belief that one must believe in Jesus to avoid eternal death?
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Why does God give faith to some but not everyone? (Ephesians 2:8)
“And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.” (Matthew 17:20)
Just having faith in the least measure is a good start.
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