Why I DON'T believe Cain was the "literal" offspring of Eve and Satan

[wynn14Him]

Howdy aall, new here,If we are to understand Gen 6 in this light, how do we understand God punishing man for something that demonic angels did (seduce women)?

 

[Christina]

Well first welcome to CB good to have ya join us.secondly God didnt punish man man choose to punish himself by not obeyinghis laws and his word it was Satan who tempted man and man that fell

 

[wynn14Him]

Thank you Kriss,Am still confused, maybe more so now that you bring up the Fall (3 chapters earlier). Thought we were talking about Gen 6, and the openning verses of that chapter. It appears to me that those verses are the foundation of a belief by some in gaints that are produced by fallen angels and women. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.The very next few verses goes into why there would be a flood, to punish man for wickedness. At the very least, that discussion is a break in the general train of thought if we accept that the first few verses are speaking of women being seduced by falledn angels. Angels and women behaving badly (mostly angels as the women would be somewhat powerless)---> wicked men---> destory wicked men except for one righteous man. Not one mention of destroying/punishing angels or directly their supposed offspring (if we assume they too can drown - you said they were supernatural after all - then they are indirectly punished)Am just saying it does not flow. If the first verses were about angels behaving badly then it seems out of place to jump directly to addressing men in general behaving badly and punishing them for that behavior without addressing what the bad angels did in terms of punishing them. Dare we suggest God saw nothing wrong with what this views claims the angels did?To me sons of God refers to righteous men and the daughters represening the wicked just seems to work better with the rest of Chapter. God even goes on to address Noah, that he was not wicked, he was righteous and for that reason God would save Noah and his families. So from the same chapter there obviously were righteous men and wicked men at this time. Why couldn't the first four sentences of that same chapter be speaking of the same thing, righteous men vs wicked men?

 

[Christina]

Gen 6 is about that. that is what scripture says if you read back a few post you will these angles are the same ones in Job that Satan accompanied to visit God. Angels are also sons of God they were created as we were this term Sons of God is used on more than one occasion to describe angelsREPOSTfrom H5307Variant Spellings Variant spellings for this word: נפיל (Strongs and Gesenius) נפל (Strongs)[about] Outline of Biblical Usage 1) giants, the NephilimJOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [beney ha'elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan also came among them. (NKJV) JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God [beney ha'elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. (NKJV) gen 6:2 the divine beings [beney ha'elohim] saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. notice its the same Hebrew word JUBILEES 5:1 And it came to pass when the children of men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the angels of God saw them on a certain year of this jubilee, that they were beautiful to look upon; and they took themselves wives of all whom they 2 chose, and they bare unto them sons and they were giants. And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks on the earth – all of them corrupted their ways and their orders, and they began to devour each other, and lawlessness increased on the earth and every imagination of the thoughts of all menNephilim =giants These were the offspring of these unholy unions And there were giants in the Land in those Days

 

[wynn14Him]

Kriss,That is ok if you want to believe that I guess, we just have to agree to disagree. I get where you think scriptures say it, I just can't get the whole concept and the key verse in chapter 6 does not mention their fate apart from what God says will be done to wicked men.

 

[Apple of His Eye]

(kriss;40878)
Well you being new here of course do not know us real well but I asure you I dont have much paitients for Bible twisters but that is yet to be proved.You must have some hebrew to understand this clearly And you are taking this verse wrong 1. And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. 2. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.1. the first command given to muliply and populate the earth was given around the sixth day of creation when men were made. 2. there was a second influx of these fallen angels after the flood3. it was the entire reason for the flood the name Noah means in hebrew pure (of Blood) with blemish it wasnt that Noah was so rightous(though he was) that he was saved it was that his blood line had been pure unblemished not defiled by these fallen angels mating with daughters of men {Quote from Bible}Appendix 26. NOAH "PERFECT". (GEN. 6:9). The Heb. word tamim means without blemish, and is the technical word for bodily and physical perfection, and not moral. Hence it is used of animals of sacrificial purity. It is rendered without blemish in Ex. 12:5; 29:1. Lev. 1:3, 10; 3:1, 6; 4:3, 23, 28, 32; 5:15, 18; 6:6; 9:2, 3; 14:10; 22:19; 23:12, 18. Num. 6:14; 28:19, 31; 29:2, 8, 13, 20, 23, 29, 32, 36. Ezek. 43:22, 23, 25; 45:18, 23; 46:4, 6, 13. Without Spot. Num. 19:2; 28:3, 9, 11; 29:17, 26. Undefiled. Ps. 119:1. This shows that Gen. 6:9 does not speak of Noah's moral perfection, but tells us that he and his family alone had preserved their pedigree and kept it pure, in spite of the prevailing corruption brought about by the fallen angels. See Ap. 23 and 25.
Ummm... what? What did any of that have to do with the points I brought up? I questioned you about the sudden introduction of angel/human relationships in Gen. 6:1-2 as a new copncept for that time, and you wrote up the definition of Noah. I am still awaiting the answer to my original points.

 

[Christina]

Because the defination of Noah proves that he was pure of Blood (not perfect without sin) We were always taught that Noah was rightous thats why he was saved.The hebrew say Noahs bloodline had Not been defiled by the angel that left heaven (their first estate) Another words it says Noah was saved because his family was the only bloodline that had not been mixed with angel blood for Christ to be fully man this could not happen So God brought the flood to keep his plan for our salvation through Christ from being foiled by Satan in effect God brought the flood to save us.Isnt God great he has been fighting Satan to bring us our savior sense the beginning .

 

[Christina]

(wynn14Him;41461)
Kriss,That is ok if you want to believe that I guess, we just have to agree to disagree. I get where you think scriptures say it, I just can't get the whole concept and the key verse in chapter 6 does not mention their fate apart from what God says will be done to wicked men.
Well its not what I believe that matters I believe the bible is the written holy word of God period Its what the bible says that mattersthese are the deeper teaching of scripturebut if you dont see it thats fine put in on the shelf not everyone can understand deeper things at the same level. Your salvation lies in Christ not in understanding the battles of war between God an Satan. So if you dont understand this its fine. dont worry about it

 

[setfree]

This is the first time to read this thread. It is also the first time I have heard of of Cain being the offspring of Satan. I still can not see that even with all the evidence and scripture shown.I do believe in Gen. 6 that these are fallen angels. This is backed up with scriptures.If Cain was already the son of satan, why did the fallen angels have to come to the daughters of men? What was the reason, if they were already here through Cain?

 

[Christina]

Satan failed he tried to destroy the blood line of Christ through Eve but he failed. So then Satans second attempt was to defile all mankind with mixing angel and flesh blood but God brought the the flood and saved the Bloodline of Noah then Satan tries again by bringing a second influx of fallen angels unto men after the flood This second influx was much smaller and also failed. But the line of Cain survived these are the Kennites (meaning descenants of Cain) that work to this day to stop Gods plan they are written of in Rev. thay are sometimes called tares.

 

[wynn14Him]

if a "deeper understanding" means there is a possibility I can write some humans off as being either more or less than human, then I do not want such an understanding.

 

[HammerStone]

Nice try, but banned once, banned again.

 

[Luther7]

Hello all.....I realize that some here and many Christians believe that Eve actually had sexual relations with "The Serpent" (Nachash) of Genesis, but Genesis is very specific regarding this.First of all, there are NO passages anywhere in the Bible that state that Eve had intercourse with Satan, "that old Serpent and the Devil".Secondly, specifically here:Genesis 4:1 "And Adam KNEW Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.Genesis 4:2 "And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground."Now this was AFTER they were expelled from the Garden.BOTH Cain AND Abel were the product of the union of Adam and Eve. It says so very plainly.NOTE: "I have gotten a man from the LORD" So to say that she conceived of Satan is to mock God.Next, you don't need to be the literal, physical descendant of Satan to be evil or wicked in this world.The offspring of Cain were evil and wicked because Cain was angry and bitter in his heart, specifically at God. Which he would not let go. This led to murdering his brother. Then his children also became wanderers, murders, thieves, etc. God even asks Cain, "Why are you angry?"Why is this important? Because it is WE who are capable of doing wicked things and we can't blame the Devil on that. It's called "personal responsibility" for our actions.You see, Eve, blamed the Serpent for her sin, and then Adam blamed God for giving him the woman, and NEITHER ONE took responsibility for their actions. This is REAL reason they were expelled from the Garden.Why was Noah "righteous in all of his generations"? Because his family line didn't intermarry with the children of Cain. Why did God forbid this? Because Cain and his offspring were liars, murderers, and thieves. They were wicked by their OWN actions. Plain and simple.Next, the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares is a Parable. What is a parable? It is a SYMBOLIC story used to tell about hidden wisdom. Why did Jesus speak in parables? Because the rest of the world would not understand. "In hearing they do not hear and in seeing they do not see." Why do they not understand? Because they don't want to.Jesus said to the Pharisees, "ye are of your father, the devil. He was liar and a murderer from the beginning and the truth is not in him."Did Jesus mean they were the "literal" children of the devil, or the "spiritually wicked" children of the devil? There IS a difference.The Jewish leaders were the children of God. But they "rejected" Jesus, just as Judah, the son of Jacob said about Joseph, "WE WILL NOT HAVE THIS MAN TO RULE OVER US!"Remember, Jesus said, "is it not written in your law that "ye are gods"?It was the sons of Jacob that sought to kill Joseph, just as they sought to kill Jesus later on. NOT the sons of Cain.There's a parallel between the story of Joseph and the New Testament passages about Jesus.Remember, Jacob said of his son, Joseph, "MY SON YET LIVES!"The time Joseph spent in prison happens to be the same amount of time as the missing years of Jesus.Joseph was a saviour of his people. Joseph was the High Priest, King, Vizier of Egypt. Jesus went to Egypt where it would be said, "OUT OF EGYPT HAVE I CALLED MY SON".Therefore, I DO NOT believe there are "literal, physical" descendants of Satan in this world. Man is evil enough in his own heart without the aid of the Devil.The word "Satan" means "the accuser or adversary". He is the one who accuses us before God as he did with Job.Kim

Thank you for a heartfelt message and I would agree with you like 95%.
The Pharisees were spiritually the children of the devil, belonging to the synagogue of Satan.
Anyone who follows judaism is part of that spiritual lineage or curse. Simply because it is an anti- Christ religion.

 

[Luther7]

No you arent listening do you not read the scripture The sons of God that is the nephilim rebelled against God and had children with the daughters of men this is biblical Angels can take the form of men. did not one wrestle with Jacob visit Lot ?this is again biblical this was an abomination to God It was Satan's rebellion to destroy the seed of which Christ would come through. The fallen angels along with their leader Satan did this abdominal thing the result (off spring )was giants they were upon the earth. Do a search on Nephallim on this site or the internet. Here is what the Appendix of the companion Bible says 25. THE NEPHILIM, OR "GIANTS"Of GEN. 6, &c. The progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam (see notes on Gen. 6, and Ap. 23) are called in Gen. 6, Ne-phil-im, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah's Word (Gen. 3:15). This was why the Flood was brought "upon the world of the ungodly" (2Pet. 2:5) as prophesied by Enoch (Jude 14). But we read of the Nephilim again in Num. 13:33 : "there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, which come of the Nephilim". How, it may be asked, could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood? The answer is contained in Gen. 6:4, where we read : "There were Nephilim in the earth in those days (i.e. in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became [the] mighty men (Heb. gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown" (lit. men of the name, i.e. who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness). So that "after that", i.e. after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan". It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before. As to the date of this second irruption, it was evidently soon after it became known that the seed was to come through Abraham; for, when he came out from Haran (Gen. 12:6) and entered Canaan, the significant fact is stated : "The Canaanite was then (i.e. already) in the land." And in Gen. 14:5 they were already known as "Raphain" and Emim", and had established themselves at Asteroth Karnaim and Shaven Kiriathaim. In ch. 15:18-21 they are enumerated and named among Canaanite Peoples : "Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites" (Gen. 15:19-21; cp. Ex. 3:8, 17; 23:23. Deut. 7; 20:17. Josh. 12:8). These were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed (Deut. 20:17. Josh. 3:10). But Israel failed in this (Josh. 13:13; 15:63; 16:10; 17:18. Judg. 1:19, 20, 28, 29, 30-36; 2:1-5; 3:1-7); and we known not how many got away to other countries to escape the general destruction. If this were recognized it would go far to solve many problems connected with Anthropology. As to their other names, they were called Anakim, from on Anak which came of the Nephilim (Num. 13:23), and Rephaim, from Rapha, another notable one among them. From Deut. 2:10, they were known by some as Emim, and Horim, and Zamzummim (v. 20, 21) and Avim, &c. As Rephaim they were well known, and are often mentioned : but, unfortunately, instead of this, their proper name, being preserved, it is variously translated as "dead", "deceased", or "giants". These Rephaim are to have no resurrection. This fact is stated in Isa. 26:14 (where the proper name is rendered "deceased," and v. 19, where it is rendered "the dead"). It is rendered "dead" seven times (Job 26:5. Ps. 88:10. Prov. 2:18; 9:18; 21:16. Isa. 14:8; 26:19). It is rendered "deceased" in Isa. 26:14. It is retained as a proper name "Rephaim" ten times (two being in the margin). Gen. 14:5; 15:20. Josh. 12:15 (marg.). 2Sam. 5:18, 22; 23:13.& b31 nbsp; 1Chron. 11:15; 14:9; 20:4 (marg.). Isa. 17:5. In all other places it is rendered "giants", Gen. 6:4; Num. 23:33, where it is Nephilim; and Job 16:14, where it is gibbor (Ap. 14. iv). By reading all these passages the Bible student may know all that can be known about these beings. It is certain that the second irruption took place before Gen. 14, for there the Rephaim were mixed up with the five nations or peoples, which included Sodom and Gomorrha, and were defeated by the four kings under Chedorlaomer. Their principal locality was evidently "Ashtaroth Karnaim"; while the Emim were in the plain of Kiriathaim (Gen. 14:5). Anak was a noted descendant of the Nephilim; and Rapha was another, giving their names respectively to different clans. Anak's father was Arba, the original builder of Hebron (Gen. 35:27. Josh. 15:13; 21:11); and this Palestine branch of the Anakim was not called Arbahim after him, but Anakim after Anak. They were great, mighty, and tall (Deut. 2:10, 11, 21, 22, 23; 9:2), evidently inspiring the ten spies with great fear (Num. 13:33). Og king of Bashan is described in Deut. 3:11. Their strength is seen in "the giant cities of Bashan" to-day; and we know not how far they may have been utilized by Egypt in the construction of buildings, which is still an unsolved problem. Arba was rebuilt by the Khabiri or confederates seven years before Zoan was built by the Egyptian Pharoahs of the nineteenth dynasty. See note on Num. 13:22. If these Nephilim, and their branch of Rephaim, were associated with Egypt, we have an explanation of the problem which has for ages perplexed all engineers, as to how those huge stones and monuments were brought together. Why not in Egypt as well as in "the giant cities of Bashan" which exist, as such, to this day? Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Gen. 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks. Thus the Babylonian "Creation Tablets", the Egyptian "Book of the dead", the Greek mythology, and heathen Cosmogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorted in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.

It is impossible for an angelic spirit to have intercourse with a human. Impossible. They are two different creations. And God would let us know if that was possible. Or maybe we just need to do more Bible study.

 

[Luther7]

I suggest you read Gen 6: Who do you think the sons of God are?? They are Satan and his fallen angels their off spring were giants as scripture says Fallen Angels mating with daughters of men. Thats exactly what Satan did with Eve.Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.Where is the Lord?? Can flesh enter act face to face with God ??Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.Anyone who doesnt get Satan is an Angel and he was with the other Angelscheck out out many studies annd proof of this Satan was their leader and if you want out side second source I suggest you read the book of EnochThe Book of Enoch Index | Internet Sacred Text Archive

The sons of God are the sons of God. Why is that so hard to understand? They were Godly men from the line of Seth. Apparently they were not to have relationships with these " daughters of men" that had the genealogy of those giant people.

 

[Fred J]

Hello all.....I realize that some here and many Christians believe that Eve actually had sexual relations with "The Serpent" (Nachash) of Genesis, but Genesis is very specific regarding this.First of all, there are NO passages anywhere in the Bible that state that Eve had intercourse with Satan, "that old Serpent and the Devil".Secondly, specifically here:Genesis 4:1 "And Adam KNEW Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.Genesis 4:2 "And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground."Now this was AFTER they were expelled from the Garden.BOTH Cain AND Abel were the product of the union of Adam and Eve. It says so very plainly.NOTE: "I have gotten a man from the LORD" So to say that she conceived of Satan is to mock God.Next, you don't need to be the literal, physical descendant of Satan to be evil or wicked in this world.The offspring of Cain were evil and wicked because Cain was angry and bitter in his heart, specifically at God. Which he would not let go. This led to murdering his brother. Then his children also became wanderers, murders, thieves, etc. God even asks Cain, "Why are you angry?"Why is this important? Because it is WE who are capable of doing wicked things and we can't blame the Devil on that. It's called "personal responsibility" for our actions.You see, Eve, blamed the Serpent for her sin, and then Adam blamed God for giving him the woman, and NEITHER ONE took responsibility for their actions. This is REAL reason they were expelled from the Garden.Why was Noah "righteous in all of his generations"? Because his family line didn't intermarry with the children of Cain. Why did God forbid this? Because Cain and his offspring were liars, murderers, and thieves. They were wicked by their OWN actions. Plain and simple.Next, the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares is a Parable. What is a parable? It is a SYMBOLIC story used to tell about hidden wisdom. Why did Jesus speak in parables? Because the rest of the world would not understand. "In hearing they do not hear and in seeing they do not see." Why do they not understand? Because they don't want to.Jesus said to the Pharisees, "ye are of your father, the devil. He was liar and a murderer from the beginning and the truth is not in him."Did Jesus mean they were the "literal" children of the devil, or the "spiritually wicked" children of the devil? There IS a difference.The Jewish leaders were the children of God. But they "rejected" Jesus, just as Judah, the son of Jacob said about Joseph, "WE WILL NOT HAVE THIS MAN TO RULE OVER US!"Remember, Jesus said, "is it not written in your law that "ye are gods"?It was the sons of Jacob that sought to kill Joseph, just as they sought to kill Jesus later on. NOT the sons of Cain.There's a parallel between the story of Joseph and the New Testament passages about Jesus.Remember, Jacob said of his son, Joseph, "MY SON YET LIVES!"The time Joseph spent in prison happens to be the same amount of time as the missing years of Jesus.Joseph was a saviour of his people. Joseph was the High Priest, King, Vizier of Egypt. Jesus went to Egypt where it would be said, "OUT OF EGYPT HAVE I CALLED MY SON".Therefore, I DO NOT believe there are "literal, physical" descendants of Satan in this world. Man is evil enough in his own heart without the aid of the Devil.The word "Satan" means "the accuser or adversary". He is the one who accuses us before God as he did with Job.Kim

There's no account of satan had intercourse with any of the women on earth and have offsprings.

But as during Noah's time, yes, angels left their positions in Heaven and came down to earth to marry the daughters of man and had offsprings.

As we know the offsprings had physical bodies and they all perished during Noah's flood, and left with only 8 souls to reproduce and replenish the earth.

Man who sin and go away from GOD and governing authority, have a tendency to be lied to and deceived by satan, as how the Gentiles(people without GOD) they became.

As for the record of people with GOD even Israel, if they keep on sinning they belong to the devil, and he have blinded their minds.

Only by their mouth they declared to Jesus belonging to the GOD of Abraham, but on the contrary, Jesus said that they of their father the devil.

Sort of the offsprings of satan by sinful and rebellious nature against GOD they've become, and not by birth which is of a man and woman.

Even Peter, Jesus called him satan, just because his thoughts was like everyone else in the world, and not focused to the Word of GOD.