Why I Had To Apostatize

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Webers_Home

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†. John 8:1-6a . .Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared
again in the Temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and
he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees
brought in a woman caught in adultery.

. . .They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus; Rabbi, this
woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law, Moses commanded us
to stone such women. Now what do you say?

. . .They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for
accusing him.

That scene took place outdoors. Israel's covenanted law permits only
Levitical priests to enter the house portion of the Temple facility. The
acreage adjoining the Temple served as a sort of sacred town square, where
just about anybody with the moxie and the wherewithal could set up a soap
box yeshiva and teach and/or preach, and vendors such as money changers
and livestock and fowl dealers could set up for business. In those days,
when Jews spoke of "God's house" the term always included the courtyard
as well as the house, and the whole precinct was enclosed inside a very
large retaining wall.

Gentiles are often unaware of the Levitical restrictions controlling Temple
entry and typically think of it as a church. But the rank and file did their
worship outside; not inside. Their closest approach was the Altar, which was
situated at the foot of steps leading up to a portico.

Christ wasn't a member of the Sanhedrin. So his Jewish opponents didn't
bring the woman to him for legal proceedings. This incident was wholly an
entrapment staged only to see where Christ stood regarding the stipulations
mandated in Israel's covenanted law regarding adultery; but as the woman's
accusers were to soon find out, Christ was a stickler for due process.

The covenant mandates that adulterers be put to death-- both the man and
the woman --no excuses and no exceptions.

†. Lev 20:10 . . And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife,
even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and
the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

However, the covenant requires the testimony of a minimum of at least two
witnesses in capital cases.

†. Deut 17:6-7 . . At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall
he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness
he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon
him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou
shalt put the evil away from among you.

As it turned out; every one of the witnesses against the woman disqualified
themselves.

†. John 8:6-9 . . Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with
his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said
to them: He among you without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at
her.

. . . Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who
heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus
was left, with the woman still standing there.

Consequently; the accusation was dropped.

†. John 8:10-11 . . Jesus said to her: Woman, where are they? Does no one
condemn you? And she said: No one, sir. And Jesus said: Neither do I
condemn you

You see; even if Christ had been a legitimate witness, he couldn't testify
against her because the covenant requires a minimum of two witnesses in
capital cases.

Q: Isn't Christ supposed to be God; therefore knowing all things and
seeing all things? Why couldn't Christ prosecute the woman in that capacity?

A: Christ wasn't here the first time to judge-- he was here as John Q Citizen
and as such wasn't authorized to come down on his fellow Jews.

†. Luke 12:13-14 . . Someone in the crowd said to him: Teacher, tell my
brother to divide the inheritance with me. Jesus replied: Man, who appointed
me a judge or an arbiter between you?

†. John 3:17 . . God didn't send His son into the world to condemn the
world; but to spare the world through him.

NOTE
: It's fun to speculate about what Christ wrote on the ground in the
incident of the woman taken in adultery. Well, as for me; I suspect it was
the names of girlfriends that the woman's accusers had on the side that they
thought nobody knew about. Hence when Christ said "let him who is without
sin cast the first stone" he wasn't talking about sin in general; no, he talking
about the same sin; viz: adultery.

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Webers_Home

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I often encounter rational people who have logically concluded that God has
set the bar too high; that He's made it humanly impossible to attain the
kingdom of God; so what's the point of even trying.

And there are others who have decided that as bad as hell might be, it would
be even worse to squander this life in self denial and quite possibly end up
going to hell anyway. Those people have decided that it's better to live a life
of pleasure here and a life of no pleasure there, rather than run the risk of
having no pleasure either place. I have to agree: that would be sad.

A third classification of folk are in a clash of wills with God. In other words:
they are so determined not to give in to God's demands that they would
rather be cremated alive than do so. In their minds: giving in means God
wins; which for them is not only unacceptable; but thoroughly intolerable.

Those people are tough; just as tough as the anti-commie crowd who
proudly announce: Better dead than Red, and/or the pro-gun people who
defiantly announce: If you want my guns; you'll have to pry them loose from
my cold, dead fingers.

I'm not saying it's bad to be anti-commie, nor bad to be pro-gun. I'm just
using those people's attitude to illustrate the bitter impasse going on
between God and those who would rather run wild in hell than be tamed
in the kingdom.

Then there are people who have chosen hell over the kingdom of God
because they'll be more at home in hell-- they'll fit in; but in the kingdom
they'd never fit in.

And like they say: birds of a feather flock together; viz: some prefer the
company of certain kinds of rather unsavory folk; and people in the kingdom
will be so heavenly minded that they'd be no fun at all.

In addition; people in hell are free to speak their minds, and use all the
purple epithets, double entendres, colorful metaphors, thoughtless remarks,
and F-bombs that they want; but in the kingdom, people have to be careful
with their choice of words.

So you see; for some folk hell is the better choice; and were they to end up
in the kingdom of God instead; I think they would actually be very
disappointed.

You really have to kind of envy people who've made hell their choice rather
than their luck. At least they know where they're going when they pass on
and have mentally prepared themselves for the worst; but the
approximately 1.2 billion Catholics currently working towards their salvation
as per Rome's interpretation of Php 2:12 --and the approximately 8.2 million
Jehovah's Witnesses doing the same-- haven't a clue where they're headed.
They're hoping for the best; while in the back of their minds dreading the
worst because for people working towards their salvation, the kingdom of
God is never a sure thing. In point of fact, the Roman catechism prohibits
Catholics from taking the kingdom for granted.

Council of Trent Session 6, Chapter 16, Canon 16: If anyone says that he
will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift
of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a
special revelation, let him be anathema.

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Webers_Home

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Were I invited to speak to a Catholic catechism class; I would select as my
subject eternal life because I know from experience that the average John
and Jane Doe pew warmer doesn't know the difference between eternal life
and immortality.

According to John 5:26-27 and 1John 1:1-2 Christ had eternal life when he
was here. However, according to Rom 6:9 he didn't obtain immortality until
his resurrection. The same holds true for Christ's believing followers.
According to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-54, they too won't obtain
immortality until their resurrections.

So then, eternal life has zero to do with the longevity of a human body. But
like as Christ had eternal life while being mortal; so do his believing
followers.

Note the grammatical tense of the "have" verb in the passages below. It's
present tense rather than future, indicating that believers have eternal life
now, in this life-- no delay, and no waiting period.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

†. John 6:54 . . Anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal
life

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
but they have already passed from death into life.

†. 1John 5:13 . .I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Eternal life earmarks Christ's sheep.

†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow
me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

So then, according to Christ: Christians who lack eternal life are not his
sheep, neither do they hear his voice nor follow him.

The possession of eternal life is very crucial because according to God's
testimony, as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to life and death;
Christians who currently lack it do not have God's son. In other words: they
are currently quite christless.

†. 1John 5:11-12 . . This is what God has testified: He has given us eternal
life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and
whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

I should think that it goes without saying that christless Christians are in
grave danger of the sum of all fears.

†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.

How many christless Christians are there? Well; for starters: Roman
Catholicism-- known everywhere as the largest single denomination in the
world --currently consists of approximately 1.2 billion followers who all, to a
man, including the Pope, insist that no one obtains eternal life till sometime
after they die and cross over to the other side.

Well; that can mean but one thing, and one thing only: seeing as how those
1.2 billion souls are currently lacking eternal life, then according to God's
expert testimony they are currently living without Christ, and they will die
without Christ. And you can safely apply that rule to any, and all,
denominations who insist that nobody obtains eternal life till sometime after
they die and cross over to the other side.

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Webers_Home

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First I'll quote one of Christ's statements; afterwards some questions and
commentary related to it.

†. John 5:24 . . Amen, amen, I say to you: whoever hears my word, and
believes in the one who sent me, has eternal life and will not come to
condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

Q: What happens to born-again Christians who stop listening to Christ and
stop believing in God who sent him? Do they then lose eternal life, pass back
from life into death, and go on to condemnation?

A: The question is based upon an inadequate understanding of the qualities
of eternal life.

1• Eternal life is impervious to death; therefore its impervious to the wages
of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal
life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

†. Rom 8:2 . . For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has freed you
from the law of sin and death.

Ergo: people with eternal life cannot pass back from life into death.

†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow
me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Webster's defines "never" as; not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not
under any condition.

2• Truly born-again Christians are incapable of rejecting Christ's message
and/or disbelieving in God.

†. 1John 3:9 . . No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's
seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God.

Once again: According to God's testimony, as an expert witness in all
matters pertaining to live and death: people lacking it are also lacking His
son; viz: they are quite christless.

†. 1John 5:11-12 . . This is what God has testified: He has given us eternal
life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and
whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

People resisting God's testimony, are insinuating that He's a person of
marginal integrity who cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

†. 1John 5:10 . .Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar by not
believing the testimony God has given about His son.

When people do that-- when they insinuate that God is dishonest --they
imply that Christ's Father belongs in hell.

†. Rev 21:8 . . But as for deceivers of every sort; their lot is in the burning
pool of fire and sulfur

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Webers_Home

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Christ's version of Christianity is a lethal religion. It quite literally, in some
mysterious way that I don't quite understand; put Christ's believing
followers to death. Their entire existence, as natural-born human beings,
went up on the cross with him.

†. Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into
Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died

Seeing as how Christ's believing followers have already adequately satisfied
justice for every sin that they will ever commit from birth to the grave; then
no matter what they do from here on in; they'll never again be in the
slightest danger of the lake of molten sulfur depicted at Rev 20:10-15.

One of my biggest fears as a Roman Catholic was that something fatal would
happen to me in between confessions. Well; you can just imagine my relief
at discovering that people who actually do have eternal life cannot kill it by
sinning in between confessions and that's because eternal life is impervious
to death; therefore it is impervious to the wages of sin. If it were possible to
kill eternal life in any way at all; then it would be possible to kill God.

Christ offers a version of Christianity that guarantees a Ten Commandments
proof, God proof, sin proof, Devil proof, temptation proof, fool proof, human
nature proof, human error proof, fail-safe rescue from the wrath of God. It
just amazes me the number of people, even those warming pews in old
school Christian churches, who want nothing to do with it.

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Webers_Home

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Q: In the Gospel of Matthew Jesus said: "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock
I will build My church." (Matt. 16:18) What is the meaning of that verse?

A: Peter is elsewhere called Cephas; which is an Aramaic word meaning "the
Rock" probably in reference to Peter's persona as a tough, independent
fisherman.

But in Matt 16:18 he is called by the Greek word petros (pet'-ros) which
refers not to a specific rock, nor to a specific variety of rock; but to
nondescript rock of any size, shape, chemistry, or configuration.

The rock to which Christ referred in relation to his church as "this rock" isn't
petros. It's the Greek word petra (pet'-ra) which refers to rock formations;
e.g. bedrock, and/or immovable monsters like the monoliths decorating
Yosemite Valley.

What we're looking at in petra rock is a suitable anchorage upon which a
temple can be constructed. You wouldn't want to construct a temple on just
any kind of rock; no, it has to be immovable; viz: able to hold your temple
in place during adverse geological and meteorological conditions like earth
movements and severe storms.

The great skyscrapers in New York City's lower Manhattan are anchored in a
huge underground mass of dense material called schist. It's some pretty
tough stuff and not easily cut by tunneling machines for aqueducts and
subway trains. Manhattan's schist can be likened to the rock about which
Christ spoke in the Sermon on the Mount.

†. Matt 7:24-26 . . Everyone who hears these words of mine, and acts upon
them, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock.
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst
against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded upon the
rock.

The Greek word for "rock" in that passage is petra (pet'-ra) which is the very
same word for "this rock" in Matt 16:18.

Petra rock can also be an entire mountain of stone like Gibraltar, or Mt.
Palomar in California. Palomar was chosen to site the Hale telescope because
underneath it's coating of earth, Palomar is just one huge hunk of solid
granite.

Another good example of petra rock is the ancient rock-hewn city of Petra in
the country of Jordan. Major portions of the city are carved right into stone
cliffs and mountainsides

Christ is clearly identified as petra rock.

†. 1Cor 10:1-4 . .For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers,
that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed
through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the
sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink;
for they drank from the spiritual petra that accompanied them, and that
petra was Christ.

Nowhere in the New Testament-- when I say "nowhere" I mean nowhere --is
Peter even once identified as petra rock.

There are very convincing arguments supporting both sides of this issue: the
one side insists that Peter is the bedrock of Christ's church, and the other is
that Christ is the bedrock of his church. I would highly recommend erring on
the high side with Christ rather than erring on the low side with Peter and
thereby relegating Christ to a position of less importance than the apostles
in his own church.

Q: The Latin words "Tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam
meam" (You are Peter (the rock) and on this rock I shall build my church) are
carved in marble above the main altar in Ste. Peters. Why can't we just let it
go at that?

A: We can't go with Rome on that because Christ's church is built upon his
crucifixion for the sins of the whole world, and his subsequent resurrection
for our justification. Had it been Peter who was crucified for the sins of the
whole world, and then raised from the dead for our justification; I'd go with
him instead of Christ, but as everyone knows; that's not how it went down.

Here; let me show you just how stupid we'd look were we to go with Rome's
interpretation of Matt 16:18.

John 3:14-15 . . Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so Peter
must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:17-19 . . For God did not send Peter into the world to condemn the
world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in Peter is not
condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already
because he has not believed in Peter's name.

John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to Peter's message, and believe
in God who sent him, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

John 6:53-58 . . I tell you the truth, unless you eat Peter's flesh and drink
his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats Peter's flesh and drinks his
blood has eternal life, and Peter will raise him up at the last day. For Peter's
flesh is real food and his blood is real drink.


. . .Whoever eats Peter's flesh and drinks his blood remains in him, and
Peter in him. Just as the living Father sent Peter and he lives because oft
he Father, so the one who feeds on Peter will live because of him. This is the
bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died,
but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.

1Cor 3:10-12 . . By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an
expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be
careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one
already laid, which is the apostle Peter.

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epostle1

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Wrong again, Webers_Home.

Mark 3:16; John 1:42 – Jesus renames Simon "Kepha" in Aramaic which literally means "rock." This was an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do, because "rock" was not even a name in Jesus' time. Jesus did this, not to give Simon a strange name, but to identify his new status among the apostles. When God changes a person's name, He changes their status.

Gen. 17:5; 32:28; 2 Kings 23:34; Acts 9:4; 13:9 - for example, in these verses, we see that God changes the following people's names and, as a result, they become special agents of God: Abram to Abraham; Jacob to Israel, Eliakim to Jehoiakim, Saul to Paul.

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 - in these verses, God is also called "rock." Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:

1 Cor. 3:11 - Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock. These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus said in Aramaic, you are "Kepha" and on this "Kepha" I will build my Church. In Aramaic, "kepha" means a massive stone, and "evna" means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is "petra", that "Petros" actually means "a small rock", and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus' blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used "Kepha," not "evna." Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the "small rock," he would have used "lithos" which means a little pebble in Greek. Also, Petros and petra were synonyms at the time the Gospel was written, so any attempt to distinguish the two words is inconsequential. Thus, Jesus called Peter the massive rock, not the little pebble, on which He would build the Church. (You don’t even need Matt. 16:18 to prove Peter is the rock because Jesus renamed Simon “rock” in Mark 3:16 and John 1:42!).

Matt. 16:17 - to further demonstrate that Jesus was speaking Aramaic, Jesus says Simon "Bar-Jona." The use of "Bar-Jona" proves that Jesus was speaking Aramaic. In Aramaic, "Bar" means son, and "Jonah" means John or dove (Holy Spirit). See Matt. 27:46 and Mark 15:34 which give another example of Jesus speaking Aramaic as He utters in rabbinical fashion the first verse of Psalm 22 declaring that He is the Christ, the Messiah. This shows that Jesus was indeed speaking Aramaic, as the Jewish people did at that time.

Matt. 16:18 - also, in quoting "on this rock," the Scriptures use the Greek construction "tautee tee" which means on "this" rock; on "this same" rock; or on "this very" rock. "Tautee tee" is a demonstrative construction in Greek, pointing to Peter, the subject of the sentence (and not his confession of faith as some non-Catholics argue) as the very rock on which Jesus builds His Church. The demonstrative (“tautee”) generally refers to its closest antecedent (“Petros”). Also, there is no place in Scripture where “faith” is equated with “rock.”

Matt. 16:18-19 - in addition, to argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter's leadership in the Church. This is a three-fold blessing of Peter - you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom).

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut the Protestant argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.

Matt. 16:13 - also, from a geographical perspective, Jesus renames Simon to rock in Caesarea Philippi near a massive rock formation on which Herod built a temple to Caesar. Jesus chose this setting to further emphasize that Peter was indeed the rock on which the Church would be built.

Matt. 7:24 - Jesus, like the wise man, builds His house on the rock (Peter), not on grain of sand (Simon) so the house will not fall.
Luke 6:48 - the house (the Church) built upon the rock (Peter) cannot be shaken by floods (which represent the heresies, schisms, and scandals that the Church has faced over the last 2,000 years). Floods have occurred, but the Church still remains on its solid rock foundation.

Matt. 16:21 - it is also important to note that it was only after Jesus established Peter as leader of the Church that He began to speak of His death and departure. This is because Jesus had now appointed His representative on earth.

John 21:15 - Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," referring to the other apostles. Jesus singles Peter out as the leader of the apostolic college.

John 21:15-17 - Jesus selects Peter to be the chief shepherd of the apostles when He says to Peter, "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Peter will shepherd the Church as Jesus’ representative.

Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus also prays that Peter's faith may not fail and charges Peter to be the one to strengthen the other apostles - "Simon, satan demanded to have you (plural, referring to all the apostles) to sift you (plural) like wheat, but I prayed for you (singular) that your (singular) faith may not fail, and when you (singular) have turned again, strengthen your brethren.

Acts 1,2,3,4,5,8,15 - no one questions Peter's authority to speak for the Church, declare anathemas, and resolve doctrinal debates. Peter is the rock on which the Church is built who feeds Jesus’ sheep and whose faith will not fail.

To whom or to what was Jesus referring when He said, “On this rock I will build my Church”? What rock was He talking about? Catholics, noting that the name “Peter” (Greek: Petros) is really just the masculine form of the Greek word for “rock” (petra), say He was referring to Simon son of Jonah. If they’re right, if the Church was to be built in some sense on Peter himself, as head of the apostles, then this supports the Catholic doctrine of the papacy. Naturally, Protestants aren’t comfortable with that at all, and so historically, they have claimed that the “rock” to which Jesus referred was Peter’s faith, or perhaps, Christ Himself.
But as the passions of the Reformation era have cooled, and Protestant scholars have taken a more dispassionate look at this text, they have come to agree more and more that Jesus was referring to Peter himself as the rock. Of course, they disagree with the Catholic interpretation of what this means, but many now agree that the Catholic explanation of the grammar of the text is correct.
The following quotations, all of which are from Protestant Bible scholars, are taken from the book
Jesus, Peter & the Keys: a Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy (Scott Butler et al., (Santa Barbara, CA: Queenship Publishing), 1996).
William Hendriksen Member of the Reformed Christian Church, Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary says Peter is the Rock

Gerhard Maier Leading conservative evangelical Lutheran theologian says Peter is the Rock.

Donald A. Carson III Baptist and Professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Seminary says Peter is the Rock


John Peter Lange German Protestant scholar says Peter is the Rock


John A. Broadus Baptist author says Peter is the Rock


J. Knox Chamblin Presbyterian and New Testament Professor, Reformed Theological Seminary says Peter is the Rock


Craig L. Blomberg Baptist and Professor of New Testament, Denver Seminary says Peter is the Rock


David Hill Presbyterian minister and Senior Lecturer in the Department of Biblical Studies, University of Sheffield, England says Peter is the Rock

Suzanne de Dietrich Presbyterian theologian says Peter is the Rock

Donald A. Hagner Fuller Theological Seminary says Peter is the Rock
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PROTESTANT SCHOLARS ON PETER THE ROCK

"You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter)." (John 1:42)

“Jesus replied, ‘Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:17-19)


W.F. Albright (Protestant) and C.S. Mann
“[Peter] is not a name, but an appellation and a play on words. There is no evidence of Peter or Kephas as a name before Christian times….Peter as Rock will be the foundation of the future community. Jesus, not quoting the Old Testament, here uses Aramaic, not Hebrew, and so uses the only Aramaic word that would serve his purpose. In view of the background of v. 19…one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as meaning the faith, or the messianic confession, of Peter. To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence…The interest in Peter’s failures and vacillations does not detract from this pre-eminence; rather, it emphasizes it. Had Peter been a lesser figure his behavior would have been of far less consequence.” (The Anchor Bible; Matthew [Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday & Co., 1971], 195)

Albert Barnes (Nineteenth-Century Presbyterian)
"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion" [Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].

John Broadus (Nineteenth-Century Calvinistic Baptist)
"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession" [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].

Craig L. Blomberg (Baptist)
"The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification" [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].

Donald A. Carson (Baptist)
“On the basis of the distinction between 'petros' . . . and 'petra' . . . , many have attempted to avoid identifying Peter as the rock on which Jesus builds his church. Peter is a mere 'stone,' it is alleged; but Jesus himself is the 'rock' . . . Others adopt some other distinction . . . Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Catholic interpretation, it is doubtful whether many would have taken 'rock' to be anything or anyone other than Peter . . . The Greek makes the distinction between 'petros' and 'petra' simply because it is trying to preserve the pun, and in Greek the feminine 'petra' could not very well serve as a masculine name . . . Had Matthew wanted to say no more than that Peter was a stone in contrast with Jesus the Rock, the more common word would have been 'lithos' ('stone' of almost any size). Then there would have been no pun - and that is just the point! . . . In this passage Jesus is the builder of the church and it would be a strange mixture of metaphors that also sees him within the same clauses as its foundation . . .” (Expositor's Bible Commentary, [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1984], vol. 8: Matthew, Mark, Luke (Matthew: D.A. Carson), 368)

J. Knox Chamblin (Contemporary Presbyterian)
"By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself" ["Matthew" in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].

R.T. France (Anglican)
“Jesus now sums up Peter's significance in a name, Peter . . . It describes not so much Peter's character (he did not prove to be 'rock-like' in terms of stability or reliability), but his function, as the foundation-stone of Jesus' church. The feminine word for 'rock', 'petra', is necessarily changed to the masculine 'petros' (stone) to give a man's name, but the word-play
is unmistakable (and in Aramaic would be even more so, as the same form 'kepha' would occur in both places). It is only Protestant overreaction to the Catholic claim . . . that what is here said of Peter applies also to the later bishops of Rome, that has led some to claim that the 'rock' here is not Peter at all but the faith which he has just confessed. "The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied. . . Peter is to be the foundation-stone of Jesus' new community . . . which will last forever.” (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1985], vol. 1: Matthew, 254, 256)


William Hendriksen (Reformed Christian Church, Professor of New Testament Literature at Calvin Seminary)
“The meaning is, “You are Peter, that is Rock, and upon this rock, that is, on you, Peter I will build my church.” Our Lord, speaking Aramaic, probably said, “And I say to you, you are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my church.” Jesus, then, is promising Peter that he is going to build his church on him! I accept this view.” (New Testament Commentary: Exposition of the Gospel According to Matthew [Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1973], page 647JPK page 14]

Donald Hagner (Contemporary Evangelical)
"The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Catholics to justify the papacy" (Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

David Hill (Presbyterian)
“It is on Peter himself, the confessor of his Messiahship, that Jesus will build the Church…Attempts to interpret the ‘rock’ as something other than Peter in person (e.g., his faith, the truth revealed to him) are due to Protestant bias, and introduce to the statement a degree of subtlety which is highly unlikely.” (The Gospel of Matthew, New Century Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1972], 261)

Herman Ridderbos (Contemporary Dutch Reformed)
"It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter" [Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].

For the Protestant Reformers to rationalize breaking away from what was universally acknowledged in their culture as the Christian Church, it was necessary for them to deny the Catholic Church’s authority. To maintain their positions, they were forced to portray it as a kind of "anti-Church" that was unjustly claiming the prerogatives of Christ’s true (but invisible) Church.

Their chief target was, of course, the pope. To justify breaking away from the successor of Peter, they had to undercut the Petrine office itself. They were forced to deny the plain reading of Matthew 16:18—that Jesus made Peter the rock on which he would build his Church.

More recent Protestants have been able to back away from the position that early Protestants felt forced to make and have been able to admit that Peter is, indeed, the rock. It remains to be seen whether they will start drawing the necessary inferences from this fact.
 

Webers_Home

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During my years as an active Catholic, I was never actually taught to
worship patron saints; but rather, to look to them for support, guidance,
protection, and comfort; viz: pray to them for providence. Unfortunately,
patron saints compete with God for humanity's affections; which is of course
unacceptable.

†. Deut 6:5 . .You shall love Yhvh your God with all your heart, and with all
your soul, and with all your might.

†. Mark 12:30 . .You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and
with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

"you shall" is neither a suggestion nor an option, no; it's mandatory.

When people pray to celestial beings like departed saints and/or angels for
providence; they're not really loving God with all their heart, all their soul,
all their mind, and with all their strength. No, their loyalties are divided; viz:
they're allotting God a percentage of their all, but not 100% of their all.

A number of other gods vied for humanity's affections in Jacob's day; and
out of all the available options, he selected Yhvh (contingent, in Jacob's
spiritually immature mind, upon Yhvh's reliability as a provider).

†. Gen 28:20-21 . . Jacob then made a vow, saying: If God remains with
me, if He protects me on this journey that I am making, and gives me bread
to eat and clothing to wear, and if I return safe to my father's house-- Yhvh
shall be my god.

What did Jacob say? Yhvh wasn't his god up to that point? Not necessarily. It
wasn't uncommon in those days for people to communicate with other gods
right along with Yhvh. This practice was later strictly forbidden by the first of
the Ten Commandments.

†. Ex 20:1-3 . . And God spoke all these words: I am Yhvh your god, who
brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other
gods in my sight.

Jacob's uncle Laban was notorious for polytheism. On the one hand, he
recognized Yhvh as a legitimate deity (Gen 24:50, Gen 31:29) while on the
other hand he harbored a collection of patron gods in his home (Gen 31:19,
Gen 31:30). In the ancient Semitic world; patron gods were equivalent to
Catholicism's patron saints-- objects of devotion; venerated as special
guardians, intercessors, protectors, and/or supporters; viz: alternate sources
of providence.

Jacob's vow reflects a personal decision of his own volition to make Yhvh the
sole source of his providence to the exclusion of all the other gods that
people commonly looked to in his day. So Gen 28:20-21 could be
paraphrased to read like this:

"If God remains with me, if He protects me on this journey that I am
making, and gives me bread to eat and clothing to wear, and if I return safe
to my father’s house-- Yhvh shall be my only patron."

So, although I didn't worship patron saints, nevertheless, I practiced
polytheism just like uncle Laban because of my devotion to God's
competitors rather than narrowing the field down to just the one benefactor
like Jacob did.

That was a very important milestone for Jacob; and it's a very tall obstacle
for John and Jane Doe pew warmer to overcome because most of them feel
far more comfortable looking to after-market providers such as Christ's mom
and departed saints rather than looking to the Holy Bible's God alone for all
their needs.

Q: What about Rev 5:8 where it talks about the prayers of the saints.
Doesn't that indicate they pray for us?

A: Even if Rev 5:8 did indicate that departed saints pray for people down
here on the earth, it doesn't eo ipso indicate it's okay for people on the earth
to reciprocate with prayers either to them or for them.

However, when that passage in Revelation is read with care, it's easily seen
that the prayers in question are not the active prayers of saints; but rather,
archived prayers.

†. Rev 5:8 . . And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the
twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they
were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the
saints.

You see, the bowls in that passage are already full; strongly suggesting that
those particular prayers were prayed in this life; not in the next; and it also
indicates that no new prayers will fit in the bowls because they are already
to capacity.

The details of the prayers in those bowls aren't stated; so it would be purely
conjecture to allege they're intercessory prayers. It's likely the current
prayers of departed saints are for justice and vindication (e.g. Rev 6:10).

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Webers_Home

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It needs to be pointed out that God's spirit, the custodian of sacred writ, put
the focus upon Mary's virginity at the time of Christ's birth, and leaves her
virginity after Christ's birth an unsolved mystery.

In a nutshell, Catholicism's dogma on the perpetual virginity of Joseph's wife
is nothing less than a shameful rumor. There is not one shred of inspired
New Testament evidence that clearly, and without ambiguity, supports such
a theory; Rome pulled it right out of thin air just like they've done with so
many others of its Traditions.

Some go so far as to say that Christ's followers have always believed in
Mary's perpetual virginity; citing the teachings and beliefs of an elite group
that they piously label church fathers a.k.a. patristic fathers. But the beliefs
and opinions of so-called church fathers should never be granted a higher
credibility than apostolic revelation. And along with that axiom is that
antiquity is no guarantee that a particular belief is valid; because even while
the apostles were still alive, even in their own day, professing Christians
were already starting apostate movements. (e.g. Gal 1:6-9, 2Tim 2:15-18,
1John 2:18-19, Jud 1:17-19)

The normal round of human experience will not support Mary's so-called
perpetual virginity; nor will the Bible's inspired record.

According to the New Testament; Joseph and his best girl were already
engaged to be married before either one of them were informed about a
somebody coming named Jesus. Since Mary was already engaged prior to
Gabriel's announcement in Luke 1:26-38; the logical conclusion is that she
was marrying a Jewish guy for the usual reasons that Jewish girls want a
Jewish husband-- to settle down, cohabit with a Jewish man, and raise a
Jewish family of her own.

And since Joseph was already engaged to his best girl prior to the dream
sequence in Matt 1:18-15, the logical conclusion is that he was marrying a
Jewish girl for the usual reasons that Jewish guys want a Jewish wife-- to
settle down, cohabit with a Jewish woman, and raise a Jewish family of his
own.

If people never get anything else out of the Gospel narratives, I hope they
can at least appreciate that Joseph and his best girl were both Israelis who
lived in an ancient Jewish culture-- a culture about which most Gentiles
haven't a clue; and I seriously doubt a normal Jewish couple in that era
would plan to wed with the full intent of living a 100% platonic union in a
community where such a practice was culturally an embarrassment; for
example:

†. Luke 1:23-25 . .When Zachariah's time of service was completed, he
returned home. After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant; and for five
months remained in seclusion. The Lord has done this for me; she said. In
these days He has shown His favor and taken away my disgrace among the
people.

Had Joseph and his wife deliberately entered a 100% platonic marriage then
they would have failed to appropriate the blessing of procreation and assist
in earth's subjugation.

†. Gen 1:27 . .God blessed them, saying: Be fertile and multiply; fill the
earth and subdue it.

A Jewish man with no children of his own loses out on a particular blessing.

†. Ps 127:3-5 . . Sons are a heritage from Yhvh: children His reward. Like
arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the
man whose quiver is full of them.

A deliberate platonic marriage is unthinkable to conscientious Jews as it
would fail to contribute to the fulfillment of their ancestor Abraham's
blessing.

†. Gen 22:17 . . I will surely bless you and make your descendants as
numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.

The real question is not whether Joseph and Jesus' mom produced children
of their own. No, the real question is: Did they, or did they not, sleep
together and try to produce children of their own?

Whether they succeeded in producing children of their own is irrelevant; and
any arguments that go in that direction are nothing less than red herrings
because even if it could be proven beyond even the slightest reservation
that Joseph and his wife had no children of their own; their barren marriage
would not be an eo ipso, air-tight indication that they didn't at least try to
have children of their own.

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Webers_Home

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†. 2Pet 1:20 . . Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture
that is a matter of personal interpretation

That verse is easily interpreted by merely reading the information that
accompanies it.

†. 2Pet 1:21 . . for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather
human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

You see: Peter isn't saying that John and Jane Doe pew warmer can't
possibly understand the Old Testament on their own; he's merely saying
that the books of the Old Testaments aren't the product of a fertile
imagination and/or somebody's creative writing skills like Steven King
and/or Stephanie Meyer and Beatrix Potter.

When the language and grammar of 2Pet 1:20-21 are carefully examined;
it's readily seen that what Peter is actually talking about is not the
understanding of prophecy, but rather; the origin of prophecy.

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Webers_Home

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CLAIM: There would be no Bible but for the Roman Catholic Church.

RESPONSE: That's a good example of the political axiom that if a lie is
repeated often enough; anon it will be accepted as fact.

It is totally false to say there would be no Bible but for the Catholic Church.
The Old Testament canon was already completed and in wide-spread
circulation throughout the Greek and Roman worlds way before Jesus
himself was even born.

While Nazi Germany may have pioneered rocket science; it's well to
remember that the Roman Catholic Church did not pioneer either the Old nor
the New Testament. Constantine's panel merely condensed an already
existing abundance of early Christian manuscripts that the Roman Catholic
Church itself did not author; and his motives were far more political than
spiritual. The man was a pig; and his panel chairman a tyrannical bully.

Modern Christian scholars of all denominations accept the existing New
Testament not because it was compiled by Catholic authorities, but because
they're own independent investigations have led them to conclude (as did
Constantine's panel) that extant manuscripts of the New Testament
scriptures are valid reproductions of the inspired originals.

Constantine himself didn't actually become a Christian until he was an old
man on his death bed. Although he didn't submit to Christianity's Christ
during his active years of life; he did manage to change the laws of his
kingdom so that it was no longer illegal to be a Christian within his
jurisdiction: which was quite prudent of him given that Christians were
multiplying and might have turned to rebellion. But rivalry and agitation
amongst the Christians themselves was a far greater problem.

It's a well known political principle that a nation divided in its religion cannot
be unified in its politics. It was Constantine's hope that a universal Christian
handbook would unify the Christian factions in his kingdom; subsequently
bringing about an improved domestic tranquility.

Rome has been very good at conquering people, and at forcing people to
take up its religion; but it has utterly failed to unify people's minds. Rome
may subdue people, it may subjugate them and control them, it may torture
and abuse them, and it may oppress them, but that doesn't mean it won
them. Catholicism its very own self is infected with schism. It has failed to
unify itself, let alone unify the rest of Christendom.

OBJECTION: How can you possibly think that God would let someone that
you label a "pig" be responsible for one of the holiest compilation of
documents to ever be introduced into the world of men?!

RESPONSE: While I'm answering that objection, keep in mind that
Constantine himself did not author the documents compiled in the New
Testament, nor did anybody on his committee.

Have you ever considered the operation of the holiest sacrifice for sins ever
offered in the world of men: Jesus Christ's crucifixion? Was he crucified by
Christian holy men? Was he crucified by Jewish holy men? No, Jesus Christ
was sacrificed for the world's sins by a pagan Roman governor's pagan
Roman military garrison.

And the Temple, the one that existed in Jerusalem in Christ's day, wasn't
built under the auspices of a Jewish holy man, nor of a Christian holy man;
but rather, a heathen pagan named Cyrus, king of Persia (Ez 1:1-4). That
same Temple was later remodeled and beautified not by a Jewish holy man,
nor by a Christian holy man, but by a bloody heathen named Herod The
Great, the very same Herod who ordered the wholesale slaughter of all the
little Jewish boys two-years old and under (Matt 2:16). Herod's Temple was
labeled by Jesus as "my Father's house" (John 2:16) and was the very one
he zealously purged of merchants and their wares.

Let that be a lesson: God oftentimes uses means that the world of men
consider inappropriate. After all, it was a promiscuous slut who helped
Joshua's scouts escape detection in Jericho. You know what became of her?
Well; after the campaign, she married a Jewish guy named Salmon, and of
them came Boaz, who married Ruth, which led to David, and eventually to
the holiest human being this planet has ever hosted: Jesus Christ, Son of
God, Son of Man. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

And oh! My favorite is the naughty lady by the well of Samaria who was
married five times and shacking up with a guy when she and Jesus met. It
was to her that he revealed the nature of the "water" of John 3:5. To this
good day, educated Xian theologians professing to be Christ's followers still
squabble over the precise nature and purpose of that water; while she got it
straight from the horse's mouth.

Ironically, most Catholics are far more influenced in their religious thinking
by the Roman Catechism than by the 27 manuscripts Constantine's
committee chose for a New Testament. When the average Catholic is
introduced to New Testament Christianity for the first time, very often they
don't recognize it as New Testament Christianity; and readily dismiss it as
Protestant heresy because the New Testament clearly does not harmonize
with Rome's Catechism; and in point of fact, the Catechism all too often
actually contradicts the Bible; in addition to seriously embellishing it; making
Christianity more strict, and more cumbersome, than it really is; just as
Judaism's traditions did in Christ's day.

Below is a book I highly recommend to anybody curious about the origin of
the Bible. It's a small book, approximately 5½ x 8½ of 224 pages counting
the index and the notes. The font is roughly Courier New size 11 which is
large enough to be easily read by most folks.

How We Got The Bible
By Neil R. Lightfoot
ISBN-10: 1-56731-722-7
ISBN-13: 978-1-56731-722-0

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Webers_Home

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Rome has constructed for itself a papal tree showing its own succession all
the way back to Peter. But man-made successions aren't reliable, and should
never be trusted by serious students of the Holy Bible; because even while
the apostles were still alive, even in their own day, there were professing
Christians already breaking away and starting apostate movements (e.g. Gal
1:6-9, 1Tim 1:3-4, 2Tim 2:15-18, 1John 2:18-19, Jud 1:17-19).

Those early apostates could easily show that their own hierarchical
successions connected to Peter; who was actually just a few steps away. In
fact, their distance from Peter was very short, shorter by more than 1,900
years than it is today. I believe the Roman Church to be the end product of
some of those early apostates.

OBJECTION
: That couldn't be because the purpose of those passages in the
apostles' epistles was to expose the errors of the time so that people
wouldn't follow the apostates.

RESPONSE
: The epistles weren't sent out to the world at large; like as if
there were millions of copies run off the presses and shipped out to news
stands, television stations, radio stations, and book stores in every city and
country. No, the epistles were hand-written letters sent by courier only to
designated recipients. The world at large didn't have a clue, nor would it
have cared anyway even if it had access to those letters. Just because those
early apostates were "exposed", do you really think that stopped them from
proliferating?

Apostate movements grow at astounding rates in spite of the now wide
spread availability of New Testaments. For example, Mormonism has grown
from just one man in 1820 to approximately 9.37 million in 2015; and that
figure doesn't even factor in the numbers of Mormons who have lived and
died during the 195 years since the Mormon Church was founded. Those
9.37 million Mormons are those of today, not the past. Mormonism's belief
system incorporates the New Testament, including every one of those
epistles I referenced above. In point of fact, the Mormon Church offers free
Bibles to anybody who requests one.

The Watch Tower Society (a.k.a. Jehovah's Witnesses) has grown from one
man in 1881 to approximately 8.2 million in 2015; and that figure doesn't
factor in the numbers of Watch Tower Society members who have come and
gone during the 134 years since the movement began. The Society bases its
Christology on the New Testament.

The Roman papacy has had its humorous moments. It's a historical fact that
at one time there were no less than three different "infallible" popes all in
power at the same time.

In the 14th century a division occurred in the Church of Rome, and the two
factions vied for superiority. One faction officially elected Pope Urban VI as
the infallible Head of the Church, while the other party elected Pope Clement
VII as the infallible Head of the Church.

That put two infallible Popes in power opposing each other. Pope Urban VI
was succeeded by Boniface IX in 1389 and later Pope Gregory XII. Pope
Clement VII-- called, historically, the Anti-Pope --was succeeded by Pope
Benedictine XIII in 1394. Then in 1409 a third party of reactionaries,
claiming to represent the true Church, elected Pope Alexander V as head of
the Roman hierarchy. Voilà. A triune papacy.

Then, in June, 1409, the infallible Pope Alexander V officially
excommunicated the other two infallible Popes, and gradually the incident
was resolved. For an interesting discussion of this historical account see the
Encyclopedia Britannica under the article on "The Papacy".

That, however, was not the only time when the Roman Church had more
than one infallible head. In 1058 Pope Benedict X was elected, but another
faction elected Pope Nicholas II. The feud between these two opposing
infallible Popes resulted in the expulsion of Pope Benedict and the selection
of Nicholas II as supreme head of the Church.

What is so ironic about Rome's past is that modern Catholicism is constantly
going on about Protestant schism while its own infallible papacy was so
bitterly divided in the past.

NOTE: Were the Holy Ghost really leading Rome in its selection of Popes;
there would never be a divided vote when the college of cardinals meets in
conclave. Popes are elected based upon a 2/3 majority rather than
unanimous approval. Makes me wonder who the Holy Ghost is leading: the
minority vote or the majority; or quite possibly neither.

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epostle1

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I thought I'd check in to see if you wrote anything truthful about the Catholic Church.​

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Webers_Home

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OBJECTION
: Regarding eternal assurance, and your apparent view that
Catholics do not think they are saved, please consider the official position of
the Church: "By grace alone, through faith in Christ's saving work, and by no
merit of our own are we called by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who
equips and calls us to good works."

RESPONSE
: There is no salvation in that position. The quote is basically
speaking of being called, not to salvation, but to good works. In a nutshell:
the Church believes that Christ's crucifixion makes it possible to be spared
the wrath of God by means of good works.

CLAIM: While I and other faithful Catholics can feel comfortable in our
salvation at this very moment, it is presumptuous and arrogant to assume
your eternal destiny before the end of your earthly life. Maybe you should
think a bit more about "work(ing) out your salvation, in fear and trembling."
(Phlp 2:12).

RESPONSE: That claim corroborates the Church's official position that
Christ's crucifixion makes it possible to be saved by good works; while at the
same time failing to state exactly how many good works are necessary to
succeed. Jehovah's Witnesses pretty much believe the very same thing.

A good-works salvation is diametrically opposed to a grace-salvation; and
turns what is supposed to be a kind-hearted freebie into a merit award.

†. Eph 2:8-9 . . God spared you by His benevolence when you believed. And
you can't take credit for this; it's a gift from God. Salvation is not
compensation for the good things we have done; so none of us can boast
about it.

†. Titus 3:4-8 . . He spared us, not on the basis of deeds which we have
done in righteousness, but according to His mercy; by the washing of
regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us
richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by His grace we
might be made heirs to an anticipation of eternal life.

By failing to understand that a gift is a gratuity-- which Webster's defines
as: something given voluntarily: beyond recognition and/or obligation --the
objector subsequently failed to properly interpret Phlp 2:12. People who
insist upon a works-based salvation have not yet believed the gospel;
because Paul said that God's benevolence is available "when you believe"
and by no other method.

Working in order to earn one's rescue from the wrath of God insults the
spirit of altruism, and places God's benevolence in the category of a debt.

†. Rom 4:4-5 . . Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him
as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but
trusts God who acquits the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say, "Come" And let him who hears
say, "Come" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him
take the free gift of the water of life.

A remark like "it is presumptuous and arrogant to assume your eternal
destiny before the end of your earthly life" is actually a vote of no
confidence in Christ's and his Father's shepherding skills as per John 10:27
-29. A shepherd that can't be trusted, is not a good shepherd; no, they are
an unreliable shepherd.

Q: Okay, then what, in your opinion, is the true meaning of Phlp 2:12?

A: Sorry; that information is classified. It is not available to people too proud
to take protection from the wrath of God as a free gift unearned and
undeserved. In other words: too proud to accept charity; and despising
those who do.

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epostle1

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Webers_Home said:
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OBJECTION: Regarding eternal assurance, and your apparent view that
Catholics do not think blah, blah, blah...
Masonic decisions of 1906

At the 1906 General Convention of Latin-American Lodges, held in Buenos Aires, it was resolved, among other things, that religious persecution should be initiated and carried out zealously by every possible means. The following Articles, taken from the minutes of the Convention in question, embody the program of action:

G_016_Calles.jpg

President Plutarco Calles, center, came to power to execute the Masonic plan to destroy the Church
“Art. 5. Latin-American Masonry shall oppose by every possible means clerical propaganda as well as the establishment and development of religious communities. It shall, in addition, do all in its power to get these communities banished from the different countries under its jurisdiction. Accordingly, Masons shall not send their children to be educated in Catholic educational establishments, and shall use their influence over their wives and children to keep them from going to confession;

“Art. 6. Masons shall try to stir up the zeal of the members of the different political parties for Masonic ideals: the separation of Church and State, the expulsion of religious communities; civil marriage and divorce, purely secular education, the exclusion of religious from hospitals, the suppression of military chaplains.”

“Art. 10. Masonry shall strive to get the representative at the Vatican withdrawn, thus showing that the Papacy is no longer considered an International power.”

The example of Mexico
Mexico is a typical example of the rapidity with which the closing stages of the process of disruption may be carried through.

Mexico was ripening for the Masonic harvest, according to A. Preuss in his October 15, 1913, article in Fortnightly Review. The distinguished writer, in describing the state of religion in Mexico, pointed out that the Indians never lost the faith taught them by the first Spanish missionaries. Similarly, the Mexican women were devout and pious. Mexican men of the so-called educated classes, in contrast, were mostly Masons...

G_016_Persecution2.jpg

...The press of the world, after having made no attempt to inform its readers of the real causes of the events chronicled about Mexico, nor of the lengthy preparations for them, discreetly lets the curtain fall on yet another country from which Our Lord has been expelled, at least so far as human legislation can do it. .

As the final stage in the attack on the Kingship of Christ in Mexico was accelerated by the Masonic Convention of Buenos Aires in 1906, it may be of interest to note that an International Convention of delegates of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite was announced for the same city in 1927.

What fresh advances in the path of progress are the representatives of Ireland so happy about?

[Note: Ireland was the only country that broke diplomatic relations with Mexico in response to the atrocities committed by the Calles’ government against Catholics.]
G_016_Persecution3.jpg
The world ignored the Calles' government massacre of Mexican Catholics
You may not be a Mason, Weber_Home, but they must love you!
 

Webers_Home

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I suggest that the best way to begin sleuthing the chronology of Christ's
crucifixion and resurrection is to first define what constituters a Day and
what constitutes a Night. The creator does this for us so it's a no-brainer.

†. Gen 1:3-5 . . And God said: Let there be light-- and there was light. God
saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness.
God called the light Day and the darkness He called Night.

In essence: Day and Night simply label two physical conditions-- the
absence of light, and/or the absence of darkness. Labeling those physical
conditions may seem like a superfluous detail, but when analyzing crucifixion
week in the New Testament, it's essential to keep those physical conditions
separate in regards to Christ's burial and resurrection if one is to have any
hope of deducing the correct chronology.

There's more.

†. Gen 1:14-18 . . God said: Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to
separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark
seasons and days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the
sky to give light on the earth.

. . . And it was so. God made two great lights-- the greater light to govern
the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God
set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the
day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.

On the first day; God decreed Day as a condition of light; and Night as a
condition of darkness. Then in Gen 1:14-18, He further decreed that days on
the earth are when the sun is up; and nights on the earth are when the sun
is down.

These rules occur so early in the Bible that they easily escape the memories
of Bible students as they slip into the reflexive habit of always thinking of
days as astronomical events consisting of one earth rotation of 24 hours.
That's okay for calendars but can lead to gross misunderstandings when
interpreting biblical schedules, predictions, and/or chronologies.

And then there's Christ.

†. John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A
man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's
known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time
of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when days on
earth consist of less than 12 normal hours of daylight, and sometimes more;
but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always 12
regardless.

I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve
equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just
a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs;
including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening
sacrifices)

†. John 1:17 . . And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and
Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights.

†. Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly
of the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights
in the heart of the earth.

In order to avoid confusion in regards to Matt 12:40 and John 1:17; I highly
recommend working with the 12-hour days that Christ mentioned in his
statement at John 11:9.

I also highly recommend working with the definitions of Day and Night that
God decreed as per Gen 1:3-5 and Gen 1:14-18; viz: let Day be daytime
and Night be nighttime; viz: Days are when the sun is up, and Nights are
when the sun is down.

So, the three days and three nights of John 1:17 and Matt 12:40 indicate
three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down.

Bottom line: Good Friday doesn't work because it is impossible to find three
nights between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning.

NOTE
: It's tempting to count the three hours of darkness when Christ was
on the cross as one of the nights; but don't. He was neither dead nor in the
heart of the earth during those hours. And besides: the sun wasn't down.

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Webers_Home

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There are parts of The Holy Bible that are very easy to understand if people
would only let the Bible speak for itself while they listen to what it has to say
instead of tuning it out and putting a spin on its words. Here's a good
example of what I'm talking about.

†. John 19:26-27 . .Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his
mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus
saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to
his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" Then he said to the disciple,
"Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own
home.

It is just amazing that anyone would construe that tender incident in Christ's
dying moments as a teaching that Joseph's wife was appointed the mother
of all Christians. It only goes to show you just how seriously lacking in Spirit
filled intuition so many Catholics really are. Reading that passage sans a
self-induced psychological blindness caused by the mind's propensity to
disregard concepts that are incongruous with deep seated, preconceived
notions, it's very easy to understand what took place.

Jesus and his mother were both Jews born under the jurisdiction of the
covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy, The covenant obligates Jewish children to care
for their parents. Jesus was leaving; and apparently Joseph was somehow
out of the picture. So then, since Jesus was Mary's firstborn son, he became
the default male head of the house in the absence of the paterfamilias.

The Bible doesn't say why Mary had no one else to look out after her. But
although the "disciple whom he loved" was selected to care for Christ's
mother in his absence, it is also glaringly apparent that the disciple whom
Jesus loved was the only option. All the other disciples had already high
tailed it out of there: totally shunning Jesus like tuberculosis-- including
Peter; the alleged rock of the Roman Catholic church.

There are some Catholics who sincerely believe that Jesus appointed his
mom to be the Mother of all Christians in that passage. However, those
sincere Catholics are overlooking two important details in the narrative: the
other three Marys-- Mary the sister of Christ's mom, Mary the wife of
Clopas, and Mary of Magdala (John 19:25). If Jesus had really intended
Christians to interpret that passage as Mary's appointment to be the Mother
of all Christians; then he would've spoken in the plural-- "Children behold
your mother" and; "Woman behold your son and your daughters."

Let's say, just for the sake of discussion, that Jesus really did appoint his
mom as the mother of all Christians. Then you have got to ask: Why isn't
that concept developed in the book of Acts, nor in any of the epistles? I have
yet to find even one sentence written by any of the post Gospel authors
pointing to Christ's mother as a caretaker of his sheep, nor as an example
for the sheep to emulate-- not one single verse! Yet the Catechism--CCC
966 and CCC 969 --exalts her to the position of Queen, Advocate, Helper,
Benefactress, and Mediatrix: a queen, advocate, helper, benefactress, and
mediatrix who is not even one single time in the book of Acts, nor in any of
the twenty-one epistles, mentioned as somebody special. Christ's mom isn't
even listed in 1Cor 15:3-8 as one of the people who saw him alive after his
ordeal. She's barely given a passing mention in Acts 1:14; and that's it.

To say that Mary is the mother of all Christians is serious business because
of the ramifications of such a statement. It would mean that every woman
who preceded Mary, also deserves the title of Mother of all Christians; e.g.
Adam's wife, Noah's wife, and Shem's wife; then Sarah, Rebecca, Leah,
Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, Bathsheba, and Mary's own mom. All those mothers of
Jesus have just as much genetic right to claim to be the mother of all
Christians as Catholicism claims for Mary.

OBJECTION
: Why can't you understand that if you're Christ's sibling by
adoption; then Mary is automatically your mother?

RESPONSE
: The objector erred in assuming I was adopted into Mary's home.
No, I was not. I was adopted into God's home, not Mary's. That's an
extremely important distinction; and one that everyone should really give
some serious thought.

†. Gal 4:3 . . As proof that you are children, God sent the spirit of His son
into our hearts, crying out: Abba, Father!

†. Rom 8:14-16 . . For those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of
God. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you
received a spirit of adoption, through which we cry, "Abba, Father!" The
Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Mary, same as me, is now Christ's sister by adoption; so that Mary's earthly
distinction, as Christ's mom, is out the window because in Christ, she's a
new creature in a new order (2Cor 5:17).

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epostle1

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Christ's mother is his sister? Anyone with 2 functioning neurons can see you have perverted the scriptures. Is your mother your sister? What a joke.

With regard to John 19:26-27), we must first note that the composition of St. John's Gospel is quite unusual. It is told in the first person as the eyewitness account of one called the "beloved disciple" who is never named. It seems obvious from the context that this disciple is St. John , son of Zebedee. Some scholars have contested this but it seems clear to me, to the majority of modern scholars, and to the Catholic Tradition.

Most modern scholars who comment on this Gospel think that the unnamed first person narrator is done for a LITERARY purpose. That is, the reader is intended to project himself into that role so that he can experience what it was like to be in the presence of Jesus. As such, statements made to the "beloved disciple" by Jesus were intended by the author to be addressed to the reader. An example of this is where Jesus said that the beloved disciple might even tarry until he returns (John 21:22). This is telling the reader that Jesus could return at the very time that he is reading this Gospel.

So, when Jesus gives his mother Mary to the care of that Beloved Disciple, he is giving her to everyone who reads this Gospel as his or her mother.

This is sound biblical theology. It also conforms to the universal understanding of the Church down through the centuries. It is only denied by those who do not want to reach this conclusion because of anti-Catholic prejudice and because they want to follow man-made systems instead of the Church founded and superintended by the Holy Spirit.
 

Webers_Home

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CLAIMED
: Mary is the Mother of God, therefore she is the mother of all
Christians because she is the spouse of the Holy Ghost.

RESPONSE
: Women become mothers by bearing children. That alone
disqualifies Mary because none of Christ's believing followers are born of
women; no, they are all, every one, born of God.

†. John 1:12-13 . . But to those who did accept him he gave power to
become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born
not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision; but
of God.

†. John 3:6 . .What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.

Bottom line: Mary didn't give birth to spirit when Christ was born; she gave
birth to flesh.

†. John 1:14 . . And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among
Us

Most Catholics readily bleat that they believe Christ is fully God and fully
man; but in reality, they only believe he's fully God. If they really believed
that Christ was fully man, then they would readily accept the fact that Eve
was his biological grandmother, and consequently Adam his biological
grandfather seeing as how Eve was formed from a human tissue sample
amputated from Adam's side.

It is commonly alleged that Mary was somehow espoused to God's spirit so
that she was not only the mother of God, but also God's wife. That particular
belief cannot be found in the Gospel records; nor is it developed in either the
book of Acts nor any of the epistles.

Not only is it unscriptural; but it also slanders God by insinuating that His
spirit is an adulterer. You see, back in that day, when a girl was engaged;
she was counted another's wife. In point of fact, the Bible speaks of Joseph
and Mary as husband and wife prior to their nuptial.

†. Matt 1:18-20 . . Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about.
When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, but before they lived
together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit. Joseph her
husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to
shame, decided to divorce her quietly.

. . . Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to
him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take
Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child
has been conceived in her.

NOTE: Claims like the ones above are generally the result of human
reasoning and a fertile imagination rather than gleaned from
revelation. As such the wise thing to do is regard them as pagan.

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