Why were the Sabbath-breakers not punished in Exodus 16

[Randy Kluth]

That's speculation because... God's Word never says that.

Unless you have scripture references showing where God says in His Word "Adam was manipulated by Eve"

If you could post that up for us to check out, that's be good! View attachment 39191

I was referring to Adam's answer to God when He called him to account...

Gen 3.11 And he said, “Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

The following suggests that when the Serpent deceived Eve, her deception led her to want to share with her husband. He willfully embraced *her deception* even though he was not initially deceived.

Gen 3.6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

The fact both Adam and Eve appeared to be surprised by the kind of knowledge they obtained, ie their "nakedness" indicates to me that neither Adam nor Eve fully understood what they were pursuing, or fully recognized the deception that was in the proposal.

Adam therefore capitulated to his wife's deception, while the wife herself was the original victim of that deception. Adam was weak towards the woman, and the woman was weak towards the Serpent.

In saying that Adam was not deceived we are just being told what we read in Genesis. Eve was the original victim of the deception.

Adam's sin came through the woman who was originally deceived. The Serpent had found the woman a "softer target." But Adam was indirectly hit by the same deception, though he was not originally the victim of that deception.

God's Word very clearly tells us that Adam was NOT deceived... this means He knew what he was wrong and he choose to do it anyway... this is a great example of someone who decides to put what they want before what God wants which is a form of idolatry.

I think we're just getting into semantical differences. The Bible indicates all of mankind, male and female, suffer the deceptions of Satan currently. To be victimized by that one embraces a "deception," and does not always consciously reject God Himself.

Eve fell for the deception involving the promise of knowledge. Adam fell for Eve's participation in that deception, becoming guilty of willfully choosing for what his flesh desired over what his spirit desired.

But in sinning as such out of selfish interest he did not reject God completely. His spirit continued to desire God. But in rejecting God's word he caused a separation between himself and God.

And he lacked awareness that he was doing this. He was not rejecting God completely, though he was aware that he was disobeying God. He did not think God was fooling Him, as Eve thought. He just did not fully contemplate that in disobeying God's word he was, in some measure, rejecting God (though not completely nor for all time).

He put self in front of God as himself being of more value than God by deciding to do what he wanted to do instead of what God told Him to do... this is rejecting the Lord in favor of self!

Yes, this is a semantical difference. When I speak of "rejecting God" I'm speaking of rejecting God *for all time.* In some sense we all reject God every time we choose to disobey Him. But in my life I know that I on a number of occasions deliberately disobeyed God's word without fully wanting to dispose of Him in my life.

Have a nice day.

 

[Randy Kluth]

<... the product of duress. Legally, the crime is forgivable...in my opinion.> Forgivable crime! God, have you heard, the crime is forgivable, in Randy Kluth's opinion?!

God sent His Son to forgive. Gerhard, have you heard?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Frankly, it's - no, frankly, you're, pretty boring

Then don't read. It's not for you. It's even more boring to hear from those who read your material and then claim they are bored by it.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I was referring to Adam's answer to God when He called him to account...

Gen 3.11 And he said, “Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

None the less... that was Adam's excuse as he tried to justify his actions by blaming Eve.

This does not take away from the Lord saying in His Word that Adam was NOT deceived.

Lots of folks makes excuses even though they fully understand what they did was wrong... excuses is just an attempt to make one's self not look so bad. It's an act of desperation and the act of one who is guilty of wrong doing.

To be victimized by that one embraces a "deception," and does not always consciously reject God Himself.

And yet... God says man is without excuse! (Romans 1:20)

God is just, so everyone has opportunity to get right with God thru Jesus!

Yes, this is a semantical difference. When I speak of "rejecting God" I'm speaking of rejecting God *for all time.* In some sense we all reject God every time we choose to disobey Him. But in my life I know that I on a number of occasions deliberately disobeyed God's word without fully wanting to dispose of Him in my life.

And that's all sin just the same that causes death (separation from God).

One must confess and forsake their sin in order to get back in right standing with God now.

And, it's possible to go too far and not be able to find repentance...

Hebrews 12:15-17
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Cain's sin was much worse than the disobedience of Adam and Eve. God suggested that Cain could overcome his sin tendency, but insisted on indulging it. Cain, therefore, was not just disobeying God's word in murdering his brother--he was actively and deliberately indulging his hatred for his brother and his contempt for God.

In the Law there are those who sin "intentionally" and those who sin "unintentionally." I don't think this refers to conscious decision-making, or to awareness that God's word is being disobeyed.

Rather, I think this refers to a *full awareness* that not only is God's word being disobeyed but God Himself is being treated with contempt and is being rejected for other gods and for other systems of righteousness. It is a deliberate act of sedition or apostasy to the extent God Himself is being consciously rejected.

Many sin, in fact all sin, in the way of disobeying God's word for selfish purposes or out of weakness. David sinned out of weakness, and Moses sinned out of weakness, but neither of them rejected God. They lacked a full awareness of the consequences.

Adam and Eve did not want to die and be separated from God in their bodies. They just capitulated to their flesh by listening to lies and deceptions.

So there are different kinds of sins. Some separate us from God for a time. Some separate us from God for eternity. They are not just a disobedience of God's word, but much more, a rejection of God Himself for a completely autonomous existence.

Inform God of his misjudgments, maybe you will impress Him; me, you do not.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes, this is a semantical difference.

What is <a semantical difference>?---I mean, what is <semantical>?---sem-ant-ic, but <semantical>?---sem-en-tic-al perhaps? goodness gracious me

 

[Randy Kluth]

Inform God of his misjudgments, maybe you will impress Him; me, you do not.

I'm not trying to impress you. I'm trying to "impress God" through submission to Him and to His truth. You have a contentious spirit. I'm willing to discuss anything, but not with anybody who is really disinterested in dialogue in a respectful way.

 

[Randy Kluth]

None the less... that was Adam's excuse as he tried to justify his actions by blaming Eve.

This does not take away from the Lord saying in His Word that Adam was NOT deceived.

Lots of folks makes excuses even though they fully understand what they did was wrong... excuses is just an attempt to make one's self not look so bad. It's an act of desperation and the act of one who is guilty of wrong doing.

Again, I've told you that Adam had no excuse. What he said indicated that he was under duress.

I agree the Scriptures say Adam was not initially deceived by the serpent. They also say he was given the forbidden fruit by the woman, and he blamed her for it. That is, he was looking for an excuse because he had not intended the consequences of his actions.

In my view, Adam and Eve had not really intended to want physical separation from God on earth. The consequences of their actions were not, however the loss of a relationship with God while they were in their bodies. Instead, the consequences would be the loss of their bodies and loss of a permanent relationship with God on earth.

Adam and Eve, in my opinion, had not wanted any of this. They had just wanted to be able to separate from God by disobeying His word in a limited way.

By contrast, there are people born throughout history who really do want to be separate from God permanently. They don't want to be separate from their bodies, but they do want to remain in their bodies on earth and live separately from God and His word.

One must confess and forsake their sin in order to get back in right standing with God now.

And, it's possible to go too far and not be able to find repentance...

Yes, that's the whole point. Some people sin not to be permanently separated from God. And some people sin to be permanently separated from God. God distinguishes between the two. Whatever we believe about this, the results are the same.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What he said indicated that he was under duress.

Uh huh, and who's fault was that? He caused his own problems by disobeying God!

In my view, Adam and Eve had not really intended to want physical separation from God on earth

Then they should have chosen to obey the Lord rather than listening to that snake.

They had just wanted to be able to separate from God by disobeying His word in a limited way.

Oops!

Yes, that's the whole point. Some people sin not to be permanently separated from God. And some people sin to be permanently separated from God. God distinguishes between the two. Whatever we believe about this, the results are the same.

Sounds like a great excuse to go out and do some sin!

"I just wanted to go out get drunk... not be separated from God for all times... so my intentions are not really bad!"

I'm sure the OSAS peoples say this all the time, of course they don't believe sin separates them from the Lord at all because they don't believe Gal 6:7,8 which tells us if we so to the flesh we shal;l of the flesh reap corruption... God is not mocked.