Why Woul a Loving God Create Such a Hateful Place?

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Duckybill

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Ducky your response was predictable.

Its only fair that having provided you with an interpration of 2 Cor 5:21 supported by relevant Scriptures, that you now provide us with your understanding.

"For he [God] hath made him [Christ] to be sin for us, who [Christ] knew no sin; so that we might be made the righteousness of God in him [Christ]."

I must say, I am looking forward to your response.
No wonder you deny that Satan exists!!!

 

Duckybill

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Ducky...quick to inform its wrong.

We are still waiting for your understanding on 2 Cor 5:21?
It means He was our Sacrifice for our sins. He did not have a sinful nature. A sinner can't die for our sins.

John 1:29 (NKJV)
[sup]29 [/sup]The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
 

Alethos

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It means He was our Sacrifice for our sins. He did not have a sinful nature. A sinner can't die for our sins.

John 1:29 (NKJV)
[sup]29 [/sup]The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Why can Jesus ask this of us if he didnt do likewise? Heb 4:15 Heb 2:17,18

Phil 3:3 who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh

So could Jesus have put confidence in his flesh? Heb 4:15


Heb 5:7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.

Did Jesus need God to save him from death?

"Because he himself (Jesus) suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted" (Heb 2:17,18).

Or,

1 Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

I must be careful how I phrase this Ducky, I wouldnt want to get another warning!

Are you saying Jesus didnt come in the Flesh?

Alethos





 

Duckybill

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Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Why can Jesus ask this of us if he didnt do likewise? Heb 4:15

Phil 3:3 who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh

So could Jesus have put confidence in his flesh? Heb 4:15


Heb 5:7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.

Did Jesus need God to save him from death?

"Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted" (Heb 2:17,18).

Or,

1 Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

I must be careful how I phrase this Ducky, I wouldnt want to get another warning!

Are you saying Jesus didnt come in the Flesh?

Sir you are on the wrong side of the fence. You won't be able to say you weren't warned on Judgment Day. Jesus was absolutely spotless. You are playing with fire, EVERLASTING FIRE.

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, [sup]19 [/sup]but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.


 

Alethos

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Sir you are on the wrong side of the fence. You won't be able to say you weren't warned on Judgment Day. Jesus was absolutely spotless. You are playing with fire, EVERLASTING FIRE.

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, [sup]19 [/sup]but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.


Ducky

We know Jesus was sinless thats been said many times.

Where did Jesus blood come from?

___________ & Blood?

He had a "fleshly" nature like you and I.

Ducky you cannot escape this fact, too many verses have been provided to show he came in the flesh, in the days of hs flesh, he overcame the flesh and yes he died in the flesh upon the cross.

Why are you so opposed to this fact? No really, why is it not possible for you to understand Jesus was born from a woman in a stable. He was a normal baby boy who grew up into strong young man who at the age of 12 was speaking with the scholars about the law. But was able to be killed, and he was killed upon a cross for you and I.

Heb 2:14 still remains in tact, and true that he overcame the power (devil) which is death upon the cross.

Alethos

ps. does a lamb have flesh and blood?
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Ducky

We know Jesus was sinless thats been said many times.

Where did Jesus blood come from?

___________ & Blood?

He had a "fleshly" nature like you and I.

Ducky you cannot escape this fact, too many verses have been provided to show he came in the flesh, in the days of hs flesh, he overcame the flesh and yes he died in the flesh upon the cross.

Why are you so opposed to this fact? No really, why is it not possible for you to understand Jesus was born from a woman in a stable. He was a normal baby boy who grew up into strong young man who at the age of 12 was speaking with the scholars about the law. But was able to be killed, and he was killed upon a cross for you and I.

Heb 2:14 still remains in tact, and true that he overcame the power (devil) which is death upon the cross.

Alethos

ps. does a lamb have flesh and blood?
I know Jesus/God came in the flesh. You said He took on our nature. Our nature is SINFUL. You are dead wrong. He came "in the likeness of sinful flesh", not in sinful flesh. He was our "offering for sin", our Sacrifice. He did not take on our sinful nature. Why do you think He was born of a virgin?

Romans 8:3 (NASB)
[sup]3 [/sup]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

 

Alethos

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I know Jesus/God came in the flesh. You said He took on our nature. Our nature is SINFUL. You are dead wrong. He came "in the likeness of sinful flesh", not in sinful flesh. He was our "offering for sin", our Sacrifice. He did not take on our sinful nature. Why do you think He was born of a virgin?

Romans 8:3 (NASB)
[sup]3 [/sup]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,


Great verse Ducky,

Before posting a deeper consideration of Romans 8:3 can I ask you a very simple question; This will help me to better understand your belief in quoting the above.

When Jesus was tempted was it "possible" for him to sin?

I will ask it another way.

"Could" Jesus have sinned?

Alethos
 

Duckybill

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Feb 12, 2010
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Great verse Ducky,

Before posting a deeper consideration of Romans 8:3 can I ask you a very simple question; This will help me to better understand your belief in quoting the above.

When Jesus was tempted was it "possible" for him to sin?

I will ask it another way.

"Could" Jesus have sinned?
He didn't sin. That's all that matters to me.
 

Alethos

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He didn't sin. That's all that matters to me.

Ducky, your above comment is a telling admission. It expresses to us a limitation to "truly" consider the nature of Christ. Having said that, I acknowledge why you would choose such a path.

This response is a "sign" error is held.

If you find yourself saying "That's all that matters to me" you may well be saying, I know the answer (truth), but, I cannot utter it for fear of compromising my other beliefs.

I genuinely desire you to understand the true nature of Christ and the reconciliation which is found in "him".

So what was the correct answer?

When Jesus was tempted was it "possible" for him to sin? Yes

If one draws to this conclusion the belief of Jesus being God is dispelled and opens the way for truth.

On another note: This thread has covered a great deal, from the true nature of angels, to understanding satan and the devil, and now the nature of the Christ. I will leave this here and begin a new topic titled "The Atonement" Understanding the Nature of Jesus Christ"

I hope you can visit.

May the Father reveal His truth that “seeing you may see and hearing you may hear”

Alethos

Heb 2:14 still stands firm...Heb 4:15 but what about Heb 2:17-18

 

Foreigner

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Jesus could have sinned. He was indeed, fully, a man.


I believe the only reason he didn't was that he already knew His Father intimately and realized 1. He didn't have to, and 2. the consequences of sin....including how it could have impacted the reason He came to earth in the first place.


His reaction to the money changers in the temple and the fig tree that didn't have the fruit on it He thought it would gives a glimpse into the fact that He had emotions and anyone with emotions has the potential to sin.


Even God who became a man in every way.




.
 

Alethos

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Jesus could have sinned. He was indeed, fully, a man.


I believe the only reason he didn't was that he already knew His Father intimately and realized 1. He didn't have to, and 2. the consequences of sin....including how it could have impacted the reason He came to earth in the first place.


His reaction to the money changers in the temple and the fig tree that didn't have the fruit on it He thought it would gives a glimpse into the fact that He had emotions and anyone with emotions has the potential to sin.


Even God who became a man in every way.
.

But God cannot be tempted with evil James 1:13

Therefore Jesus is the Son of God but also the Son of Man.

But nowhere is Jesus present to be very God, nowhere. And before you run off to find your trinity quotes please check them first and consider thier context.

Thank you

Alethos

Jesus could have sinned. He was indeed, fully, a man.

True

I believe the only reason he didn't was that he already knew His Father intimately and realized 1. He didn't have to, and 2. the consequences of sin....including how it could have impacted the reason He came to earth in the first place.

If the capital "H" implies God coming to Earth.

Error

His reaction to the money changers in the temple and the fig tree that didn't have the fruit on it He thought it would gives a glimpse into the fact that He had emotions and anyone with emotions has the potential to sin.

Certainly true he experienced hightened emotions but always controled by the divine mind of His father which dwelt in him.

Even God who became a man in every way.

Error
 

justaname

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But God cannot be tempted with evil James 1:13

Therefore Jesus is the Son of God but also the Son of Man.

But nowhere is Jesus present to be very God, nowhere. And before you run off to find your trinity quotes please check them first and consider thier context.

Thank you

Alethos



True



If the capital "H" implies God coming to Earth.

Error



Certainly true he experienced hightened emotions but always controled by the divine mind of His father which dwelt in him.



Error

John 1:1-14

Jesus is the word, the word made flesh. From John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God."
 

Alethos

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John 1:1-14

Jesus is the word, the word made flesh. From John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God."

GOD

"God cannot be tempted" (James 1:13).

God cannot die - He is immortal by nature (Ps. 90:2; 1 Tim. 6:16).

God cannot be seen by men (1 Tim. 6:16; Ex. 33:20).

JESUS

Christ "was in all points tempted like as we are" (Heb. 4:15).

Christ died for three days (Mt.12: 40; 16:21).

Men saw Jesus and handled him (1 John 1:1 emphasizes this).

When you and I are tempted by the lusts of the flesh, we must make a choice between sin and obedience to God.

Yes?

We often choose to disobey; Jesus Christ had the same choices, but always choose to be obedient. He therefore had the possibility of sinning, although, he never actually did.

It is unthinkable to assume God has any possibility of sinning. Regardless of how you try to reconcile God being Jesus and Jesus being God, you will never overcome this hurdle.

The very moment you say God is Jesus then Scripture is in opposition and the word does not agree with itself.

If you read 2 Sam 7:12-16 you will see the Jesus was promised to come from the line of David (a sinful man). If you read verse 14 it speaks of Christ's "possibility" of sinning: "If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him.

So here you have God chastening Himself? And we could go right through all the scriptures that speak of God treating Jesus as a Son but never coequal.

Alethos

ps I have dealt with John 1:1 in previous posts.

 

Alethos

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John 1:1-14

Jesus is the word, the word made flesh. From John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God."

There is only one God, it is impossible that Jesus could be God; if the Father is God and Jesus is also God, then there are two Gods. ???????

"But to us there is but one God, the Father" (1 Cor. 8:6). 'God the Father' is therefore the only God. It is impossible for there to be a separate being called 'God the Son', it has only ever been recorded as in OT times Yahweh, the one God, as the Father (Isa. 63:16; 64:8)

Also note the one mediator, the man Christ Jesus - "...and one mediator...". That word "and" indicates a difference between Christ and God. Christ being the "mediator" means that he is a go-between. A mediator between sinful man and sinless God cannot be sinless God Himself; it had to be a sinless man, of sinful human nature. As per my discussion with Ducky we established this lesson very clealry so..."The man Christ Jesus" leaves us in no doubt as to the correctness of this explanation. Keeping in mind when this was written Jesus was in Heaven sitting at HIs right side, But Paul does not speak of "the God Christ Jesus".

You may like to consider also we are often reminded that "God is not a man" (Num 23:19; Hos. 11:9) and yet Christ was clearly "the son of man", as he is often called in the New Testament, "the man Christ Jesus". He was "the Son of the Highest" (Luke 1:32). God being "The Highest" indicates that only He has ultimate highness; Jesus being "the Son of the Highest" shows that he cannot have been God Himself in person.

The very language of Father and Son which is used about God and Jesus, makes it obvious that they are not the same. Whilst a son may have certain similarities to his father, he cannot be one and the same person, nor be as old as his father.

So in the natural also in the Spiritual.

Alethos
 

Comm.Arnold

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What are you talking about the garden of eden was a beautiful sexy place. Humans ruined it when he and her ate the apple.
 

Duckybill

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There is only one God, it is impossible that Jesus could be God; if the Father is God and Jesus is also God, then there are two Gods. ???????
Yes, Jesus is God. The OT confirms this.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

This is clearly speaking of Jesus.

 

Alethos

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Yes, Jesus is God. The OT confirms this.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

This is clearly speaking of Jesus.


Ducky,

Sorry you lost me how is this speaking of Jesus?

Alethos