Will Christ utter new words in a Premil millennium?

[Spiritual Israelite]

My answers to your original post, @grafted branch , are as follows:

"...will there be new chapters or books added to the Bible during the Premil millennium?"

No, there will never be anything added to the Bible (or taken away), as the Word of our God endures forever (Isaiah, Peter), and... well, John is absolutely clear about this in Revelation 22 18-21.​

Revelation 22:18-19 is referring to the book of Revelation in particular and not the Bible itself, so I don't think that passage can be used to prove nothing can ever be added to the Bible. Just throwing this out there even though we both know nothing will ever be added to the Bible. So, it's not a significant point. But, you know me. If I see something I disagree with, I say so. But, it's not a big deal at all in this case.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I guess if you believe that anything new would need to be added to the book of Revelation for some reason instead of in a new book, then you'd have a point.

"Or could it be possible that Christ doesn’t speak at all during the millennium?"

Christ speaks through the Scriptures and by the Spirit, Who brings to our remembrance all that He has said (John 14). And the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world." (emphasis mine; Hebrews 1:1-2). So to this question no, also​

Agree.

 

[Davidpt]

If the Premil millennium contains absolutely no deception whatsoever, then it doesn’t contain free will either.
If I were in the millennium and I wanted to deceive another person I wouldn’t be able to, because there would be no deception in the millennium, that means I would have limited free will at best.

Currently someone who believes in election might say no one has the free will to choose Christ because we are dead in our sins. In the Premil millennium someone might say no one has the free will to deceive because we are all alive in Christ.

You would have to admit there is deception of some kind in the millennium in order for people to retain free will in the millennium.

Except the following proves they still have free will during Premil's proposed millennium. This assuming the following is involving a millennium post the 2nd coming. Pretty much all Premils think it is involving a millennium post the 2nd coming. Non Premils disagree of course, but that's irrelevant unless non Premils can undeniably prove that verses 16-19 do not involve a millennium post the 2nd coming.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The commandment is this---every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The free will opposition to that is this---whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Who would argue, regardless where they place verses 16-19 in the timeline of events, that verse 16 and 17 does not involve free will choices?

What about in the beginning, before and during the fall? Are you going to argue, in light of the 2 verses below in Genesis 2, that before they fell, this means they had no free will, thus why they didn't fall initially?

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Verse 17 is pointless unless Adam and Eve already possessed free will. Free will involves making choices, exactly what verses 16-17 are involving.

 

[Davidpt]

If you, as I am, are a Gentile, David, and a believer in Christ, a Christian, then you yourself along with me and all other Gentile Christians past and present are proof that we are in the millennium right now. That's of course not to exclude Jewish believers/Christians, as we are all in Christ, and thus one in Christ, but they were, of course, never members of any Gentile nation and thus not Gentiles.

My answers to your original post, @grafted branch , are as follows:

"...will there be new chapters or books added to the Bible during the Premil millennium?"

No, there will never be anything added to the Bible (or taken away), as the Word of our God endures forever (Isaiah, Peter), and... well, John is absolutely clear about this in Revelation 22 18-21.​

"Can there be more time added in somewhere after the millennium by Christ uttering new prophecies?"

No, same as above.​

"Or could it be possible that Christ doesn’t speak at all during the millennium?"

Christ speaks through the Scriptures and by the Spirit, Who brings to our remembrance all that He has said (John 14). And the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world." (emphasis mine; Hebrews 1:1-2). So to this question no, also ~ and yet more proof that we are in the millennium ~ these last days ~ now.​

Grace and peace to you both.

My thinking is this. Look at all the debates taking place in regards to how this should be interpreted, how that should be interpreted, etc. Obviously, these debates are never going to be settled before Christ returns. Therefore, why can't Christ during a future millennium use that time to put these debates to rest? Where He then provides the correct interpretations, thus none of these things are any longer debatable?

It could take a thousand years just to set the record straight, as to the correct interpretation of this passage, the correct interpretation of that passage, so on and so on. Why not? Don't ppl deserve to know the truth? Granted, some might already be interpreting things correctly. But, everything, though? Nobody could be that enlightened to where they never misinterpret anything. Only someone arrogant beyond belief could think they never misinterpret anything.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Except the following proves they still have free will during Premil's proposed millennium. This assuming the following is involving a millennium post the 2nd coming. Pretty much all Premils think it is involving a millennium post the 2nd coming. Non Premils disagree of course, but that's irrelevant unless non Premils can undeniably prove that verses 16-19 do not involve a millennium post the 2nd coming.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The commandment is this---every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

The free will opposition to that is this---whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Who would argue, regardless where they place verses 16-19 in the timeline of events, that verse 16 and 17 does not involve free will choices?

What about in the beginning, before and during the fall? Are you going to argue, in light of the 2 verses below in Genesis 2, that before they fell, this means they had no free will, thus why they didn't fall initially?

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Verse 17 is pointless unless Adam and Eve already possessed free will. Free will involves making choices, exactly what verses 16-17 are involving.

This contradicts you saying before that Jesus and His followers would be keeping everyone in line with their rods of iron during the supposed future thousand years. That contradicts free will. You need to make up your mind about this. You either believe that Jesus will be dictating what everyone does during that time or He will let people choose. Which is it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My thinking is this. Look at all the debates taking place in regards to how this should be interpreted, how that should be interpreted, etc. Obviously, these debates are never going to be settled before Christ returns. Therefore, why can't Christ during a future millennium use that time to put these debates to rest? Where He then provides the correct interpretations, thus none of these things are any longer debatable?

He could do that in eternity if that mattered to Him (which it probably does not). There is no scripture which teaches that, so you are once again just speculating on things.

It could take a thousand years just to set the record straight

LOL. What? Why would it take that long for Jesus to clarify all these things? That shows a lack of respect for Him. I'm sure He could do it in one day.

 

[PinSeeker]

My thinking is this. Look at all the debates taking place in regards to how this should be interpreted, how that should be interpreted, etc. Obviously, these debates are never going to be settled before Christ returns.

Right, but still, there is a "right," and there is a multitude of "wrongs." <smile> Still, it's a discussion ~ and debate, if healthy ~ worth having... even through the whole millennium. <smile>

Therefore, why can't Christ during a future millennium use that time to put these debates to rest?

<chuckles> At the end of the millennium, all will be resolved. After the final Judgment, maybe you and I will walk the road to Emmaus, and Jesus Himself will join us and explain everything to us (like He did in Luke 24:13-32), and our hearts will burn within us... That'd be pretty rad... <smile>

It could take a thousand years just to set the record straight...

Probably not. <smile>

Don't ppl deserve to know the truth?

We have the truth. In both Word and Person. <smile> And I think when all is resolved, we will marvel at how we struggled with something so plain.

Granted, some might already be interpreting things correctly.

The things we're talking about, sure.

But, everything, though?

Probably not. <smile>

Nobody could be that enlightened to where they never misinterpret anything.

Probably right. <smile>

Only someone arrogant beyond belief could think they never misinterpret anything.

I do think that no one really thinks they're infallible. I think most everyone would admit they're probably mistaken about... a few things... <smile> But it's okay for one to think he or she is right... <smile> ...and even to be at least somewhat adamant about it.

Grace and peace to you

 

[grafted branch]

I am making no assumptions. I am merely saying we do not know what Jesus will say and do in the minutae in the millennial kingdom and we do not know if any of it will be recorded and a "millennial testament" will be the 3rd section of the bible.

And we do not make assumptions. We let Scripture speak of itself. Premil is based on a literal look at the bible, pre trib rapture is based on a literal understanding of Scripture. We know the millennial is future based on what Scripture says about teh millennial kingdom.

Assumptions are what cause great heresy like terperism or amillennialism. We are forbidden to make assumptions about Scripture.

2 Peter 1:19-21​

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King James Version​

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19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Assumptions are merely those private interpretations.

I am gone till next Tuesday so will respond then.

You say you don’t make assumptions but when one person says we are currently in the millennium and another person says it’s still future, someone has to be assuming. The Bible doesn’t explicitly say what date the millennium starts, so we all have to make assumptions on how we interpret verses.

I get it that since you put the millennium as still future you are going to interpret some verses literally while others are going to interpret those same verses spiritually, figuratively, or allegorically. I think everyone has to interpret some verses literally and others non-literally but unless you can give a ridged set of rules by which we can always determine what is literal or not, we have to make assumptions.

I don’t know about you personally but there are areas where many Premils assume. For example they tend to put a gap in between Daniel’s week 69 and week 70, that’s an assumption that supports a future millennium. The full 70 weeks without an assumed gap puts the start of the millennium just after the cross.

Also, many Premils assume that national Israel will remain a nation before God forever. They tend to quote Jeremiah 31:35-36 but that’s another assumption.

 

[grafted branch]

What Premil thinks that deception is occurring throughout the millennium?

Except the following proves they still have free will during Premil's proposed millennium.

How can a person have complete free will and not be able to deceive another person? I can currently tell someone “everything is going to be alright” when I know it’s not, that would be me deceiving or at least attempting to deceive.

If there is no deception in the Premil millennium it would be impossible for me to tell someone who was left of the nations that “everything is going to be alright” if they don’t go up and worship the King. I wouldn’t have the free will to say that.

 

[ewq1938]

If the Premil millennium contains absolutely no deception whatsoever, then it doesn’t contain free will either.

That is not a truth from the bible. You made this up.

If I were in the millennium and I wanted to deceive another person I wouldn’t be able to, because there would be no deception in the millennium, that means I would have limited free will at best.

Strawman fallacy. The bible states that satan cannot deceive the nations during the thousand years.

Currently someone who believes in election might say no one has the free will to choose Christ because we are dead in our sins. In the Premil millennium someone might say no one has the free will to deceive because we are all alive in Christ.

You would have to admit there is deception of some kind in the millennium in order for people to retain free will in the millennium.

The bible does not address the subject of freewill during the thousand years so this is all irrelevant.

 

[grafted branch]

Strawman fallacy. The bible states that satan cannot deceive the nations during the thousand years.

I’m not arguing that Satan will deceive, I’m arguing that if a human can’t deceive another human in the millennium then there isn’t free will in the millennium.

 

[ewq1938]

I’m not arguing that Satan will deceive, I’m arguing that if a human can’t deceive another human in the millennium then there isn’t free will in the millennium.

It's a flawed and meaningless argument. Stick to what the scriptures say. During the thousand years satan cannot deceive the nations. The bible is clear satan has been doing that before and after the cross so we cannot have been in the thousand years yet which discounts Amill as a possibility but Premill is possible and is the only option that can match what the bible presents.